Author Topic: 2022 MLB Thread formerly the 2021 thread..  (Read 71927 times)

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Offline KevShmev

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread formerly the 2021 thread..
« Reply #1260 on: January 27, 2023, 12:35:02 PM »
I have zero sympathy for Rose.  While his actions after he retired technically should not have mattered, he bet on baseball and then lied about it for years.  He made his own bed.

Offline Glasser

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread formerly the 2021 thread..
« Reply #1261 on: January 27, 2023, 12:38:18 PM »
I have zero sympathy for Rose.  While his actions after he retired technically should not have mattered, he bet on baseball and then lied about it for years.  He made his own bed.

I get it and agree but the fucker flat out raked. Everyone knows it. Honestly he doesn't need the hof,  at this point it would only be a formality.

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread formerly the 2021 thread..
« Reply #1262 on: January 27, 2023, 12:38:49 PM »
The baseball hall of fame has become the baseball hall of very good.

It's all about money. Revenue generation by enshrining people. Scott Rolen is only in because other borderline guys have gotten in. Yet, there are others such as Dale Murphy, who are in a similar category. And then poor Fred McGriff, who finally got in from a Vets Committee nod, who SHOULD HAVE BEEN VOTED IN regularly. I'm glad for the folks that have been honored. But the whole thing has become a sham.

The Hall should be reserved for the very best to ever play the game. Not guys who were just very good in their era. As a baseball devotee, as much as I enjoy going to the Hall, I shake my head at a lot of guys who have been enshrined the last 20 years. It's going to be beyond dumb when they put in Yadier Molina. Check the comps. That guy should have his number retired by the Cardinals, but in no way is he one of the best players to play the game. But he'll be enshrined. Mark my words. it's just plain dumb what the Hall is doing from a pure baseball history standpoint. It's a total sham.
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Offline Glasser

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread formerly the 2021 thread..
« Reply #1263 on: January 27, 2023, 12:42:14 PM »
The baseball hall of fame has become the baseball hall of very good.

It's all about money. Revenue generation by enshrining people. Scott Rolen is only in because other borderline guys have gotten in. Yet, there are others such as Dale Murphy, who are in a similar category. And then poor Fred McGriff, who finally got in from a Vets Committee nod, who SHOULD HAVE BEEN VOTED IN regularly. I'm glad for the folks that have been honored. But the whole thing has become a sham.

The Hall should be reserved for the very best to ever play the game. Not guys who were just very good in their era. As a baseball devotee, as much as I enjoy going to the Hall, I shake my head at a lot of guys who have been enshrined the last 20 years. It's going to be beyond dumb when they put in Yadier Molina. Check the comps. That guy should have his number retired by the Cardinals, but in no way is he one of the best players to play the game. But he'll be enshrined. Mark my words. it's just plain dumb what the Hall is doing from a pure baseball history standpoint. It's a total sham.

How do you stand on Miggy?

Offline romdrums

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread formerly the 2021 thread..
« Reply #1264 on: January 27, 2023, 01:03:00 PM »


The fact that Hank Aaron was not a unanimous selection tells me everything about HOF voters.  When he retired, he was 1st in HR, RBI, Total Bases, Extra Base Hits, 2nd in hits, and THAT didn't get him a unanimous selection.  In fact, he's still the leader in RBI, Total Bases and Extra Base Hits!! FFS, Babe Ruth was left off of 11 ballots in the year of his induction!!!! The only unanimous selection? Mariano Rivera.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread formerly the 2021 thread..
« Reply #1265 on: January 27, 2023, 02:13:59 PM »
I am not touching the Yadi Molinda slander (yes, I am calling it slander), considering he is an obvious Hall of Famer.

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread formerly the 2021 thread..
« Reply #1266 on: January 27, 2023, 02:23:46 PM »
I am not touching the Yadi Molinda slander (yes, I am calling it slander), considering he is an obvious Hall of Famer.

Yeah....arguably the best pure catcher to ever play the game. He was essentially an on field pitching coach along with being the benchmark for what defensive catchers should strive to be. Any argument against him is just tomfoolery. 
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Re: 2022 MLB Thread formerly the 2021 thread..
« Reply #1267 on: January 27, 2023, 02:33:02 PM »
I am not touching the Yadi Molinda slander (yes, I am calling it slander), considering he is an obvious Hall of Famer.

Yeah....arguably the best pure catcher to ever play the game. He was essentially an on field pitching coach along with being the benchmark for what defensive catchers should strive to be. Any argument against him is just tomfoolery.
You could make the argument that if Ozzie Smith is in, Yadi should be in. I mean Yadi is to catchers what Smith was to shortstops and Yadi was a better hitter than Smith. The same argument could be made for Buster Posey. He wasn't quite as good defensively as Yadi (although close), he was a much better hitter.
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Re: 2022 MLB Thread formerly the 2021 thread..
« Reply #1268 on: January 27, 2023, 02:38:40 PM »
I am not touching the Yadi Molinda slander (yes, I am calling it slander), considering he is an obvious Hall of Famer.

Yeah....arguably the best pure catcher to ever play the game. He was essentially an on field pitching coach along with being the benchmark for what defensive catchers should strive to be. Any argument against him is just tomfoolery.
You could make the argument that if Ozzie Smith is in, Yadi should be in. I mean Yadi is to catchers what Smith was to shortstops and Yadi was a better hitter than Smith. The same argument could be made for Buster Posey. He wasn't quite as good defensively as Yadi (although close), he was a much better hitter.

The difference between Yadi and all other really good catchers....including your Pudge's and Posey's and what not....is yes, those guys were good and were better at some stuff here and there but Yadi was the complete package AND he was the BEST at managing his pitchers on and off the field.
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Offline pg1067

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread formerly the 2021 thread..
« Reply #1269 on: January 27, 2023, 03:28:35 PM »
The problem there is that voters are nimrods, so players who should have been 1st balloters were not.  Plus, the media holds a grudge.  I guarantee that Kent's surliness that pg1067 mentioned is held against him. Same for Barry Bonds, who was always an a-hole to the media.  Meanwhile, Ortiz, a freaking DH, gets in on the first ballot because the media loves "Big Papi" and his smile.  Albert Belle is another whose bad attitude worked against him.  For him to get so little support and then fall off the ballot after only two years of consideration was a joke, and it shows what morons the voters are.

I agree with all that.

Take a look at the 1998 AL MVP voting.  Belle's numbers that year:  .328/.399/.655/1.055 (the SLG and OPS led the league, 49 HR and 152 RBI (and, by the way, he played 163 regular season games).  His OPS+ was a staggering 172 (led the league by a wide margin).  And he struck out less than 90 times.  Did he win the MVP?  Nope.  OK...second, then?  Nope.  Not even close.  Dude cam in EIGHTH and didn't receive a single first place vote.  Juan Gonzalez, who had 5 more RBI than Belle but was otherwise an inferior hitter (and an equally bad defender), won with 21/28 first place votes (the other 7 going to Nomar Garciaparra and Derek Jeter).  Perhaps Fernando Vina was tabulating the ballots.


I have zero sympathy for Rose.  While his actions after he retired technically should not have mattered, he bet on baseball and then lied about it for years.  He made his own bed.

To me, it's less about sympathy for Rose as it is credibility of the HOF (which I suppose is a lost cause at this point, but still).  Whether he gets in while he's still alive or posthumously, he needs to be there.


The Hall should be reserved for the very best to ever play the game. Not guys who were just very good in their era.

I gotta disagree with that.  The game has changed.  Are we going to say that no modern pitcher deserves to get in (other than Nolan Ryan) because they don't have 4,000+ strikeouts or 400+ wins?  And that the guys who played pre-WWII were better hitters because they routinely hit .400+?  The era in which they played has to mean something.


It's going to be beyond dumb when they put in Yadier Molina. Check the comps. That guy should have his number retired by the Cardinals, but in no way is he one of the best players to play the game. But he'll be enshrined. Mark my words. it's just plain dumb what the Hall is doing from a pure baseball history standpoint. It's a total sham.

I have to disagree with that as well.  Clutch hitter when it counted (despite being an overall pedestrian hitter) and THE best defensive catcher to play the game in any of our lifetimes (if not ever).  And I include in that his management of the pitching staff.  Base stealing has been on a decline this century, but Molina completely eliminated it from opponents' arsenals.  The only other catcher in the last 30 years to do that was Ivan Rodriguez (and Molina did it better).  I'm obviously an outsider, but if you ask me who was the most valuable Cardinal during their run of 6 NLCS appearances, 3 World Series and 2 championships between 2005-14, I'd be hard pressed to say anyone other than Molina.  Ozzie Smith got in because he's arguably the best defensive shortstop of all time, and Molina will get in for the same reason.


The fact that Hank Aaron was not a unanimous selection tells me everything about HOF voters.  When he retired, he was 1st in HR, RBI, Total Bases, Extra Base Hits, 2nd in hits, and THAT didn't get him a unanimous selection.  In fact, he's still the leader in RBI, Total Bases and Extra Base Hits!! FFS, Babe Ruth was left off of 11 ballots in the year of his induction!!!! The only unanimous selection? Mariano Rivera.

That whole nonsense is...well...nonsensical.  "Babe Ruth wasn't unanimous, so I'll be damned if that Griffey kid is going to be" (and, in Aaron's case, we all know there were other factors in play).  Seriously...anyone who didn't vote for Aaron or Griffey (and several others) should have been hauled before a tribunal and been required to make the case for why those guys don't belong in the HOF and, when they fail to come up with anything that makes sense, they should be stripped of their vote.
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Offline Samsara

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread formerly the 2021 thread..
« Reply #1270 on: January 27, 2023, 03:45:52 PM »
re: Yadi - look at his comps. Particularly on offense -  Jason Kendall being the standout. Is Jason Kendall a HOFer? I think not. Not arguing that Yadi was a solid, solid defender. He was. For sure.  But remember gold gloves up until a few years ago, weren't based on STATISTICS. They were based on popularity with managers and coaches. Now statistics are involved. From a pure statistical point of view...Yadi is not as good as people think he is. I have no skin in this game. I'm not a Cubs fan. I'm a Yankees fan. I think Yadi WILL get in. I just don't think he should be. number retired in STL, and he gets his due? Statue at the stadium? Sure. HOF. Not even close.

I think people are remembering Yadi from the handful of years he was really, really good. He wasn't that way for most of his career.

re: Miggy? Miguel Cabrera? I forget if he was a roid guy. But if not, sure-fire. 3k hits, 500 hrs, .300 average. Total production. He should have retired after this past season though.

re: Rose - on stats alone, HOF, obviously. But that's not the total story. The betting, and then the pedo stuff...I know the Hall is about production on the field. And Ty Cobb was a bastard and he's in. I'm thinking Rose should have been put in a long time ago, and THEN banned. That way, his playing career gets its due, but yet he's banned for his actions. Just my .02. Nowadays, it's a real difficult thing.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2023, 03:51:42 PM by Samsara »
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Re: 2022 MLB Thread formerly the 2021 thread..
« Reply #1271 on: January 27, 2023, 03:57:01 PM »

re: Miggy? Miguel Cabrera? I forget if he was a roid guy. But if not, sure-fire. 3k hits, 500 hrs, .300 average. Total production. He should have retired after this past season though.


Are you automatically out on roid guys?
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Samsara

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread formerly the 2021 thread..
« Reply #1272 on: January 27, 2023, 03:59:04 PM »

re: Miggy? Miguel Cabrera? I forget if he was a roid guy. But if not, sure-fire. 3k hits, 500 hrs, .300 average. Total production. He should have retired after this past season though.


Are you automatically out on roid guys?

Yep. 
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Re: 2022 MLB Thread formerly the 2021 thread..
« Reply #1273 on: January 27, 2023, 04:00:07 PM »

re: Miggy? Miguel Cabrera? I forget if he was a roid guy. But if not, sure-fire. 3k hits, 500 hrs, .300 average. Total production. He should have retired after this past season though.


Are you automatically out on roid guys?

Yep.

Then we need to close down the HOF voting for the next 10 years, and also cancel the last 10 years as well.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Samsara

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread formerly the 2021 thread..
« Reply #1274 on: January 27, 2023, 04:12:29 PM »

re: Miggy? Miguel Cabrera? I forget if he was a roid guy. But if not, sure-fire. 3k hits, 500 hrs, .300 average. Total production. He should have retired after this past season though.


Are you automatically out on roid guys?

Yep.

Then we need to close down the HOF voting for the next 10 years, and also cancel the last 10 years as well.

Not necessarily. Unfortunately, you have to go with the data out there, and with your gut instinct. Derek Jeter, for instance, never cheated. David Ortiz on the other hand...total roid guy. A-Roid, admitted roidster. I'm not saying some guys don't find a way to skirt the system. But with some, it's very obviously. Clemens, Piazza (not entirely sure on him, but...)
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Re: 2022 MLB Thread formerly the 2021 thread..
« Reply #1275 on: January 27, 2023, 04:19:57 PM »
I just look at guys like Bagwell, Thomas, Biggio, Piazza, Pudge....no way those guys were HOFers without the roids.

And I'm not sold on Jeter. He was pretty "durable".
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread formerly the 2021 thread..
« Reply #1276 on: January 27, 2023, 06:19:49 PM »
Jeter was church when he played, gave no one a reason to mess with him. As far as his durability, I remember the guy limping out to SS many a game, that said, who knows if he took anything but it doesn't matter at this point. Roger Clemens should be in undoubtedly! A misconception about steroids is a lot of these guys got huge because of what they took, some guys took stuff like Deca Durabolin, which i took in my gym days on occasion. That's more therepuetic and used for healing and recovery. Its such a gray area because I can get the right supplements at a GNC that will increase strength and recovery if you know what you're doing.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread formerly the 2021 thread..
« Reply #1277 on: January 28, 2023, 06:57:27 AM »
The problem with the 'roid thing is that the idiot voters let some of them in and keep others out.  That is the issue.  Let them all in or keep them all out.  And like Tim implied, with that generation being so rampant with users, you could almost say that everyone was under suspicion, so we cannot say with 100% certainty that player x never used. 

I know I will come off as a Cardinals homer after going to bat for both Rolen and Molina (sorry, Samsara, you are dead wrong on this :P, Yadi WAS that great), but McGwire and Sosa not being in is just stupid. The strike in the mid 90s put a stain on baseball for a lot of people, and the McGwire/Sosa HR chase in '98 brought many fans back to the sport.  "But they were both using!"  Blah, blah, who cares?  Baseball history is loaded with cheaters, many of whom ARE in the Hall of Fame.  If people want to get on their high horse about steroids and act like it was the crime of the century, so be it, but they were simply following the path set by generations before them, which is, if you have to cheat to get better and win, do it.

Offline orcus116

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread formerly the 2021 thread..
« Reply #1278 on: January 28, 2023, 07:26:45 AM »
The problem with the 'roid thing is that the idiot voters let some of them in and keep others out.  That is the issue.  Let them all in or keep them all out.  And like Tim implied, with that generation being so rampant with users, you could almost say that everyone was under suspicion, so we cannot say with 100% certainty that player x never used. 

I think about this from time to time:

https://www.theonion.com/turns-out-craig-counsell-was-actually-best-baseball-pla-1819570562

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread formerly the 2021 thread..
« Reply #1279 on: January 28, 2023, 09:20:18 AM »
 :lol :mehlin
...going along with Dragon Attack's Queen thread has been like taking a free class in Queen knowledge. Where else are you gonna find info like that?!

Offline pg1067

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread formerly the 2021 thread..
« Reply #1280 on: January 28, 2023, 02:43:25 PM »
re: Yadi

It's pretty simple for me.  If Molina had been an average defender/pitch handler, he wouldn't be in the conversation.  But he's a guy who gets in BECAUSE OF his defense.  Average to slightly above average offensive player (who came through in the clutch fairly often), but...what I already said. 

Cabrera is also a no-brainer, and I'm on the other side w/r/t PEDs and character stuff.  None of that matters to me.  The HOF isn't legit without the all-time hit leader and the all-time HR leader.  If you must, put something on their plaques about 'roids and gambling, BUT....  If you do that, you'd better go back and do the same with guys who are already in:  Amphetamine Abuser; Racist; Spousal Abuser, etc., etc.


The problem with the 'roid thing is that the idiot voters let some of them in and keep others out.  That is the issue.  Let them all in or keep them all out.  And like Tim implied, with that generation being so rampant with users, you could almost say that everyone was under suspicion, so we cannot say with 100% certainty that player x never used. 

... McGwire and Sosa not being in is just stupid. The strike in the mid 90s put a stain on baseball for a lot of people, and the McGwire/Sosa HR chase in '98 brought many fans back to the sport.  "But they were both using!"  Blah, blah, who cares?  Baseball history is loaded with cheaters, many of whom ARE in the Hall of Fame.  If people want to get on their high horse about steroids and act like it was the crime of the century, so be it, but they were simply following the path set by generations before them, which is, if you have to cheat to get better and win, do it.

Yup...all that.  AND Bud Selig is in there too.  Oh...Selig saved baseball!  Bullshit.  Selig presided over the steroid era and turned a blind eye because doing so was necessary to mitigate the damage caused by 1994.
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Re: 2022 MLB Thread formerly the 2021 thread..
« Reply #1281 on: February 01, 2023, 03:12:13 PM »
IT'S FEBRUARY AND BASEBALL HAS OFFICIALLY STARTED (in USA)  :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread formerly the 2021 thread..
« Reply #1282 on: February 09, 2023, 06:49:42 PM »
I'm so pumped for baseball! One of my sons best friends, who I have known since T-Ball and coached a few times was added to the Tigers 40 man roster a few months ago and I'm so proud of him, (Brendan White). He's a righty pitcher but he was also an amazing infielder growing up as well. He pitched in Spring Training last year but I'm expecting his MLB debut this year. My son was also a pitcher in high school and Brendan was an incredible teammate. This kid has a great attitude and mindset along with filthy stuff!  :tup

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread formerly the 2021 thread..
« Reply #1283 on: February 21, 2023, 02:16:29 PM »

re: Miggy? Miguel Cabrera? I forget if he was a roid guy. But if not, sure-fire. 3k hits, 500 hrs, .300 average. Total production. He should have retired after this past season though.


Are you automatically out on roid guys?

I never heard that Cabrera did steroids.  Unless he used PEDs, he's a slam dunk first ballot inductee.  You didn't ask me, but I don't support steroid users in the HOF.

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread formerly the 2021 thread..
« Reply #1284 on: March 22, 2023, 02:24:27 PM »
Need a new thread . . . anyone pay attention to what Ohtani did during the WBC?!? INSANE. What a legend.

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread formerly the 2021 thread..
« Reply #1285 on: March 22, 2023, 02:27:17 PM »
Need a new thread . . . anyone pay attention to what Ohtani did during the WBC?!? INSANE. What a legend.

Mike Trout who? He's not used to big moments and Ohtani challenged him with 2 fast balls before finishing him off with a nasty wrinkle!  :lol

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread formerly the 2021 thread..
« Reply #1286 on: March 22, 2023, 02:30:32 PM »
Need a new thread . . . anyone pay attention to what Ohtani did during the WBC?!? INSANE. What a legend.

Go for it!
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline pg1067

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread formerly the 2021 thread..
« Reply #1287 on: March 22, 2023, 05:51:29 PM »
Need a new thread . . . anyone pay attention to what Ohtani did during the WBC?!? INSANE. What a legend.

I watched some or all of the U.S. v. Venezuela, U.S. v. Cuba, Japan v. Mexico, and U.S. v. Japan games.  Ohtani played well, but I didn't see anything I'd describe as insane.  The U.S. lineup (other than Mike "Can't Catch up to a Fastball" Trout) looked unstoppable until the Japan game.  I took more interest in this WBC than any other, but it's ultimately a meaningless exhibition that whetted my appetite for the real thing.
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Offline Dream Team

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread formerly the 2021 thread..
« Reply #1288 on: March 22, 2023, 08:53:37 PM »
Need a new thread . . . anyone pay attention to what Ohtani did during the WBC?!? INSANE. What a legend.

I watched some or all of the U.S. v. Venezuela, U.S. v. Cuba, Japan v. Mexico, and U.S. v. Japan games.  Ohtani played well, but I didn't see anything I'd describe as insane.  The U.S. lineup (other than Mike "Can't Catch up to a Fastball" Trout) looked unstoppable until the Japan game.  I took more interest in this WBC than any other, but it's ultimately a meaningless exhibition that whetted my appetite for the real thing.

Ohtani slashed 435/606/725 and also won 2 games as pitcher and added the series-clinching save. That impresses me anyway.