2022 MLB Thread formerly the 2021 thread..

[Glasser]

2022 universal DH, thank goodness!!! . Just common sense.

So much NO.

Jorge Soler the WS MVP was a DH.

Well...sort of.  He was the DH in the 50% of the games that were played with designated hitters.  And in the other 50% of the games he was the right fielder (and, in one game, bench warmer).

Would you want your starter batting when you have hitters on the bench?

Yes.  Catchers are also often weak hitters.  Let's have designated hitters for catchers too.  Same with second basemen.  Heck...let's have a whole roster of designated hitters so that no one who plays in the field also bats.

Too risky and literally cost some pitchers their careers.

Who?

It automatically gave NL teams advantages in their home field.

It does?  Is that advantage any different than the advantage that the home team is presumed to enjoy simply because it is playing at home?

While I was not able to find statistics limited to interleague games played in National League parks, American League teams have won 302 more interleague games than National League since interleague play began, so I doubt that any advantage is statistically significant.

Also, in the 34 World Series from 1986-2021 (excluding 2020, in which the DH was used in all six games), the designated hitter was used in games in the AL park and not used in games in the NL park.  During those 35 series, the AL teams' aggregate record in games played in the NL parks was 46-50.  Hardly a statistically significant advantage, and certainly not one that rises above the level of an ordinary home-field advantage.  However, if you add all games in the 1973-75, 77, 79, 81, 83 and 85 World Series (in which NL rules were used in all seven WS games despite the AL using the DH during the regular season), the AL's overall record in games in which the pitchers batted jumps to 74-72.

Needless to say, I disagree that the universal DH is "common sense" and that not using DHs is "moronic" (or anything close to it).

10000000% MORONIC!!! Chin min Wang running the bases, Tanaka  tagging from third. Wang was never the same and retired and Tanaka hamstring. Off the top of my head. You want your pitcher hitting over ANY bench player seriously? Come on man!!!!!   

[pg1067]

I want my players playing baseball.  Playing baseball involves both defense and offense.  Starting pitchers make more money than any other position, so there's nothing wrong with expecting them to play the complete game.

I barely remember Chin Min Wang, but if he was such a piss poor athlete that he was incapable of running, then he shouldn't be in the league.  Same with Tanaka.

And again, why not have designated hitters for all positions?

Or, if the point is that we want a better hitter batting, just get rid of the concept of a lineup entirely and let the best player who isn't already on base hit -- even if that means the same guy gets seven at bats in an inning and multiple at bats in a row.

Or...you know...just get rid of the DH altogether so that it's not such a shock to the system when AL pitchers are expected to act like athletes.

[Glasser]

Then how come pitchers don't hit after high school? If that was the case then you're argument would be valid and I would get you're point. all other positions bat all the way through the system, that's the difference.

[pg1067]

Then how come pitchers don't hit after high school? If that was the case then you're argument would be valid and I would get you're point.

*Your

Obviously, the NCAA and non-NL affiliate minor league teams followed the lead of the American League (NL affiliated AA and AAA teams have pitchers bat).

[Glasser]

Then how come pitchers don't hit after high school? If that was the case then you're argument would be valid and I would get you're point.

*Your

Obviously, the NCAA and non-NL affiliate minor league teams followed the lead of the American League (NL affiliated AA and AAA teams have pitchers bat).

Most Pitchers do not get consistent at bats in both leagues. Answer this.... Would you rather have a pitcher come to the plate over any other position player or DH in a key spot in the game seriously? It makes zero sense and this is why it will change.

One example, Walker Buehler batted .101 in 69 at bats in 2021 and that's what most pitchers do.

[pg1067]

What do I want?

I want pitchers to bat.  If you don't want your pitcher to bat in a particular spot, then pinch hit.

Do I think I'm going to get what I want or that the universal DH isn't inevitable?  No.

[Glasser]

What do I want?

I want pitchers to bat.  If you don't want your pitcher to bat in a particular spot, then pinch hit.

Do I think I'm going to get what I want or that the universal DH isn't inevitable?  No.

Ok, you're clearly not the only one who feels this way, I don't have to agree but I respect your opinion. (I'm holding up a white flag in peace my friend) 

[Dream Team]

Ohtani with the unanimous MVP! And congrats to Harper on his 2nd.

[pg1067]

Well...let's see.  The MLB awards mostly went under my radar this week.

NL MVP
Bryce Harper (17/30 first-place votes)
Juan Soto
Fernando Tatis Jr.

This was a two horse race as far as I was concerned.  Tatis barely belongs on the list.  Brandon Crawford got more first-place votes than Tatis.


AL MVP
Vladimir Guerrero Jr.
Shohei Ohtani (30 of 30 first-place votes)
Marcus Semien

I don't have a ton of insight into this race, but the vote really highlights that the MVP award is misnamed.  Ohtani was of almost no value to the Angels, except for every 5th or 6th game at the turnstiles.  The Angels were 77-85 and easily could have done about as well with or without Ohtani.  This was a "player of the year" vote.


NL Cy Young
Corbin Burnes (12 of 30 first-place votes)
Max Scherzer
Zack Wheeler

This was the only vote in which the winner did not receive more than 50% of the first-place votes.  In fact, Burnes and Wheeler both received 12 first-place votes (with Scherzer getting the other 6), and Burnes won by virture of more second-place votes.  It would be really hard to argue against any of the top three.  I will say that Julio Urias not getting anything more than three fifth-place votes is a complete joke.


AL Cy Young
Gerrit Cole
Lance Lynn
Robbie Ray (29 of 30 first-place votes)

This wasn't even close.  Ray got 29 first-place votes and one second-place votes, while Cole got one first-place votes and 29 second-place votes.


NL ROTY
Dylan Carlson
Jonathan India (29 of 30 first-place votes)
Trevor Rogers

Another vote that wasn't close.  The one first-place vote that India didn't get went to Rogers, who got 26 of the 30 second-place votes.  I have no idea who Trevor Rogers is (Marlins), and I only vaguely think I've heard of Dylan Carlson.


AL ROTY
Randy Arozarena (22 of 30 first-place votes)
Wander Franco
Luis Garcia

I was surprised Arozarena was still a rookie, and this feels like it was a reward for his postseason performance in 2020.  The only thing I know about Garcia is that he got shelled a lot in the postseason, and I only recognize Franco because of his unusual first name.


NL Manager of the Year
Craig Counsell
Gabe Kapler (28 of 30 first-place votes)
Mike Shildt

Despite "only" getting 28 first-place votes (Counsell and Shildt each got one), this seems like the biggest no-brainer ever.  Giants hadn't had better than a .483 winning percentage since 2016 and they win 107 f-ing games.  I hate the Giants with every fiber of my being, but this should have been unanimous.


AL Manager of the Year
Dusty Baker
Kevin Cash (19 of 30 first-place votes)
Scott Servais

Two in a row for Cash.  Kinda feel like Dusty Baker should've gotten more love.

[TAC]

Cash all the way.

[pg1067]

Not a single player in the top three in MVP voting played on a playoff team.

Another MVP "fun fact":

The MVP award (as we now know it) has been given out every year since 1931.  From 1931-2009 is 79 seasons, so we've had 158 winners (although many players obviously won multiple awards).  The only active player who won an MVP during that period is Albert Pujols, and no sane person would not regard him as a HOFer, so I will consider him as such for purposes of this fact.  Of the 158 winners, only 69 (33 from the AL and 36 from the NL) are not in the HOF.  Of those 69, we have Barry Bonds (who won 7) and Pete Rose (1), two players who would unquestionably be in the HOF but for the gambling and steroid thing, so the "real" number 61, which means 97/158 winners (61.4%) are (or should be) HOFers.  That's pretty impressive considering only 235 of over 19,000 players (about 1%) are in the HOF.  Looking at the list of winners from 2010 to present, there are 7-8 virtual locks for HOF:  Verlander, Cabrera, Trout (x3), Kershaw and maybe Votto.

[dparrott]

No posts about baseball trades??? Scherzer to Mets, Corey Seager to Texas.     Mega contracts.

[hunnus2000]

No posts about baseball trades??? Scherzer to Mets, Corey Seager to Texas.     Mega contracts.

Texas finally spending some money! 

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

No posts about baseball trades??? Scherzer to Mets, Corey Seager to Texas.     Mega contracts.

That Corey Seager signing makes 0 sense to me. He is not worth anywhere near that kind of money.

Also the Bluejays picked up Kevin Gausman. I was hoping the Giants would pick him back up for a 3ish year contract.

I guess the Giants are about to sign the often injured Alex Cobb... Not really a direct replacement for Guasman.

[TAC]

The Seager deal is ridiculous.

[pg1067]

As they say, you're worth what someone is willing to pay.

As a Dodger fan, I'm not all that upset about Seager leaving.  There's a lot of sentiment that he's destined to be a 3B (although my understanding is that he doesn't want that).  He's an average to below average defensive shortstop and also has some notable injury history.  It's not like there's a salary cap or the Dodgers are low on money, but I'm glad they didn't give him a contract like that.

Of course, the guy who should be happiest about the Seager deal (besides Seager and Boras) is Trea Turner.  The Dodgers will have to print money to keep him after next season.

I'm also fine with losing Scherzer.  The "dead arm" during the playoffs raised HUGE red flags, and THREE years for the highest average annual salary ever is WAY too much.

However, my concern as a Dodger fan revolves around the rotation.  The 2021 starting 5 at the start of the season was Buehler, Bauer, Kershaw, Urias and May.  Only Buehler and Urias were left by the time the playoffs started.  Bauer was essentially replaced by Scherzer, but we had NOTHING to fill out even a 4-man rotation in the playoffs.

So now, we have Buehler and Urias as 2/5 of the starting rotation.  Bauer remains in "administrative leave" limbo, May is recovering from Tommy John surgery and isn't expected until mid-season, and we have no idea if Kershaw wants to come back and is healthy.  I'd LOVE to have Kershaw retire as a Dodger.  However, we have to be 100% confident that he can give us 30 starts and still resemble the guy who pitched pretty well in 2021.  He's also going to have to be willing to take less money to come back to the Dodgers than the Rangers will almost certainly throw at him.  We also picked up Andrew Heaney.  Oh boy.  All I know is that the starting rotation at the start of the season CANNOT be Buehler, Urias, Heaney, Tony Gonsolin, and the bullpen and duct tape until May returns.  Unfortunately, the available free agent starters list is looking really slim.

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

Unfortunately, the available free agent starters list is looking really slim.

This is bad news for the Giants too. Will be interesting to see how both teams fill out their rotations before the season starts. If Logan Webb hadn't emerged as a top of the line starter the only starting pitcher we'd have going into the season so far is DeSclafani....and he's at best a decent number 3 starter. I wouldn't mind getting Alex Wood back.

[hunnus2000]

The Seager deal is ridiculous.

Maybe but these moves ensure a far improved infield and maybe one of the better ones in the league. Rumor around these parts is that they are looking at going after Clayton Kershaw.

[pg1067]

The Seager deal is ridiculous.

Maybe but these moves ensure a far improved infield and maybe one of the better ones in the league. Rumor around these parts is that they are looking at going after Clayton Kershaw.

Assuming "they" refers to the Rangers, there's no question that the Rangers are a possible landing cite for Kersh if he doesn't return to the Dodgers.  In fact, I'd say there's virtually NO chance Kershaw will ever play for a team other than the Dodgers or the Rangers.

As I mentioned previously, I really want Kershaw to be a Dodger for his entire career.  However, his health is a huge issue.  He's also the rare (former) superstar for whom money isn't going to be the primary motivator.  Family and faith-based charity work are huge for him, so I can see him as a guy who will retire early and not look back.  Really hard to say, though, because he's also a super intense competitor.

[Glasser]

MLB is officially in a lockout. I hope this gets resolved sooner than later.

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

MLB is officially in a lockout. I hope this gets resolved sooner than later.

Judging by the changes both sides are trying to implement and how neither side can come to an agreement of any kind, I don't see this being resolved any time soon. I hope this isn't the case, but we may be looking at the first time we lose games because of a lockout.

[Cool Chris]

Just getting to this, but pg1067 is saying everything I tend to think about the DH and doing it better than I could. I don't want positions in sports to get too specialized. I want players on the field to be the best athletes in the world, not just good at the one skill they possess.

I want pitchers to bat.  If you don't want your pitcher to bat in a particular spot, then pinch hit.

Or make sure your pitcher can at least make contact, hit a sac fly maybe, or lay down a decent bunt.

Oh, and yeah, MLB labor discord. Sigh...

[goo-goo]

MLB is officially in a lockout. I hope this gets resolved sooner than later.

Judging by the changes both sides are trying to implement and how neither side can come to an agreement of any kind, I don't see this being resolved any time soon. I hope this isn't the case, but we may be looking at the first time we lose games because of a lockout.

I'm with you. You could see the strained relationship between union and league during the Covid negotiations.

[pg1067]

This says it all:  https://soundcloud.com/stevebush/lockout

[splent]

Universal DH is stupid

[dparrott]

As they say, you're worth what someone is willing to pay.

As a Dodger fan, I'm not all that upset about Seager leaving.  There's a lot of sentiment that he's destined to be a 3B (although my understanding is that he doesn't want that).  He's an average to below average defensive shortstop and also has some notable injury history.  It's not like there's a salary cap or the Dodgers are low on money, but I'm glad they didn't give him a contract like that.

Of course, the guy who should be happiest about the Seager deal (besides Seager and Boras) is Trea Turner.  The Dodgers will have to print money to keep him after next season.

I'm also fine with losing Scherzer.  The "dead arm" during the playoffs raised HUGE red flags, and THREE years for the highest average annual salary ever is WAY too much.

However, my concern as a Dodger fan revolves around the rotation.  The 2021 starting 5 at the start of the season was Buehler, Bauer, Kershaw, Urias and May.  Only Buehler and Urias were left by the time the playoffs started.  Bauer was essentially replaced by Scherzer, but we had NOTHING to fill out even a 4-man rotation in the playoffs.

So now, we have Buehler and Urias as 2/5 of the starting rotation.  Bauer remains in "administrative leave" limbo, May is recovering from Tommy John surgery and isn't expected until mid-season, and we have no idea if Kershaw wants to come back and is healthy.  I'd LOVE to have Kershaw retire as a Dodger.  However, we have to be 100% confident that he can give us 30 starts and still resemble the guy who pitched pretty well in 2021.  He's also going to have to be willing to take less money to come back to the Dodgers than the Rangers will almost certainly throw at him.  We also picked up Andrew Heaney.  Oh boy.  All I know is that the starting rotation at the start of the season CANNOT be Buehler, Urias, Heaney, Tony Gonsolin, and the bullpen and duct tape until May returns.  Unfortunately, the available free agent starters list is looking really slim.

All good points.  Gonsolin should go to a mid-level club, he'd do fine.

[pg1067]

Well...once again, the BBWAA proves itself to be a sham group that is making the HOF less and less legitimate as time passes.

I'm fine with David Ortiz getting in.  His power numbers and clutch performances in the post season are undeniable.  BUT...

He tested positive for steroids.  Yet he gets in while the all-time HR leader doesn't.  Neither does a guy with 354 wins and 4,672 strikeouts.  And not putting Schilling in because...what?  He espoused an unpopular political position years after he retired?  Fucking what?

Those guys don't get in but Ortiz does?  And Gaylord Perry is in despite admittedly cheating and, in fact, sometimes being celebrated for it.

The whole point of the Hall of Fame is to tell the story of baseball through its best players, and you can't do that without Pete Rose, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Curt Schilling, etc.

[King Postwhore]

They need to get rid or the morals clause.  Ortiz got in because he was good to the media.  Clemens & Bonds were not.  Curt just needed to stay off social media for a few year but couldn't.  Not right at all but obviously the writers are petty.

[lonestar]

The whole point of the Hall of Fame is to tell the story of baseball through its best players, and you can't do that without Pete Rose, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Curt Schilling, etc.

This. My family of Giants and A's fans has been having a heated, one sided discussion on the topic, as has the local media, and for us it boiled down to this. And with the longball era of Bonds/McGuire/Sosa etc...these guys saved baseball from near disaster after the strike, and made their respective clubs, the league in general, and anyone associated with it bags and bags of money. Now to all of a sudden claim their work is beneath recognition reeks of hypocrisy.

[pg1067]

They need to get rid or the morals clause.  Ortiz got in because he was good to the media.  Clemens & Bonds were not.  Curt just needed to stay off social media for a few year but couldn't.  Not right at all but obviously the writers are petty.

The Schilling thing is the worst of them all.  I don't agree, but I can at least understand the argument against the steroid guys.  The Schilling thing is just pettiness for the sake of being petty.

for us it boiled down to this. And with the longball era of Bonds/McGuire/Sosa etc...these guys saved baseball from near disaster after the strike, and made their respective clubs, the league in general, and anyone associated with it bags and bags of money. Now to all of a sudden claim their work is beneath recognition reeks of hypocrisy.

Hugely hypocritical.  Tim Kurkjian was on Dan Patrick's show this morning.  He made it clear that he's been voting for these guys all along, and he seemed really to be struggling to justify what the writers, as a whole, are doing.

[King Postwhore]

They need to get rid or the morals clause.  Ortiz got in because he was good to the media.  Clemens & Bonds were not.  Curt just needed to stay off social media for a few year but couldn't.  Not right at all but obviously the writers are petty.

The Schilling thing is the worst of them all.  I don't agree, but I can at least understand the argument against the steroid guys.  The Schilling thing is just pettiness for the sake of being petty.

for us it boiled down to this. And with the longball era of Bonds/McGuire/Sosa etc...these guys saved baseball from near disaster after the strike, and made their respective clubs, the league in general, and anyone associated with it bags and bags of money. Now to all of a sudden claim their work is beneath recognition reeks of hypocrisy.

Hugely hypocritical.  Tim Kurkjian was on Dan Patrick's show this morning.  He made it clear that he's been voting for these guys all along, and he seemed really to be struggling to justify what the writers, as a whole, are doing.

As the older writes pass on, the newer generation won't even really know about the scandals' at all.

[KevShmev]

  Tim Kurkjian was on Dan Patrick's show this morning.  He made it clear that he's been voting for these guys all along, and he seemed really to be struggling to justify what the writers, as a whole, are doing.

I'll give Kurkjian credit for voting for Bonds and Clemens every year for the last 10 years, but his "I understand it" comment regarding some not voting for Schilling because of his behavior in recent years reeks of media cowards having the backs of one another.  What Curt Schilling said a decade after his career ended should have ZERO impact on his Hall of Fame credentials.  Don't get me wrong, I think Schilling is kind of a jackass, but this just proves once again how awful the media is (as if we needed more proof).

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

  Tim Kurkjian was on Dan Patrick's show this morning.  He made it clear that he's been voting for these guys all along, and he seemed really to be struggling to justify what the writers, as a whole, are doing.

I'll give Kurkjian credit for voting for Bonds and Clemens every year for the last 10 years, but his "I understand it" comment regarding some not voting for Schilling because of his behavior in recent years reeks of media cowards having the backs of one another.  What Curt Schilling said a decade after his career ended should have ZERO impact on his Hall of Fame credentials.  Don't get me wrong, I think Schilling is kind of a jackass, but this just proves once again how awful the media is (as if we needed more proof).

Curt Schilling's general jack-assery and politics aside, I still wouldn't vote him into the hall of fame. He was a good pitcher, even really good for a handful of seasons, but he was never great, in my opinion.

He had very similar overall numbers to guys like Kevin Brown, Orel Hershiser, and Bob Welch (who I think were all better than Schilling and are not in the HoF) and even guys like Tim Hudson, who wasn't necessarily better, but I don't think stands a snowball's chance in hell of getting into the HoF.

Bonds and Clemens should be in the HoF and should have been voted in on the first ballot. In my mind they are both HoFers. Steroids or not, Bonds is the greatest player in the history of the sport and no one comes close.

[TAC]

Curt Schilling's general jack-assery and politics aside, I still wouldn't vote him into the hall of fame. He was a good pitcher, even really good for a handful of seasons, but he was never great, in my opinion.

He had very similar overall numbers to guys like Kevin Brown, Orel Hershiser, and Bob Welch (who I think were all better than Schilling and are not in the HoF) and even guys like Tim Hudson, who wasn't necessarily better, but I don't think stands a snowball's chance in hell of getting into the HoF.

I think Schilling is on the bubble, but what puts him over the edge for me were his post seasons in both Arizona and Boston. Legendary. Plus, he was runner up 3 times for the Cy Young.

Bonds and Clemens should be in the HoF and should have been voted in on the first ballot. In my mind they are both HoFers. Steroids or not, Bonds is the greatest player in the history of the sport and no one comes close.

The fact that they're out and Ortiz is in is a fucking travesty. Bonds and Clemens didn't need PEDs to be HOFers. Ortiz did.

I mean how in the hell are Biggio and Bagwell in? They are best the equal of the pitchers you posted above, but really they're just PED guys.

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

Bonds and Clemens should be in the HoF and should have been voted in on the first ballot. In my mind they are both HoFers. Steroids or not, Bonds is the greatest player in the history of the sport and no one comes close.

The fact that they're out and Ortiz is in is a fucking travesty. Bonds and Clemens didn't need PEDs to be HOFers. Ortiz did.

I mean how in the hell are Biggio and Bagwell in? They are best the equal of the pitchers you posted above, but really they're just PED guys.

On this I can agree.