Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame 2020

[Stadler]

The Grateful Dead argued very strongly that every ex-member of the Dead should get in. Blondie argued less successfully that certain ex-members shouldn't. It's a bun-fight between the HOF and the band as to who they include. If Sabbath had argued strong enough that Dio should be included, then he'd be in.

I don't understand that to be exactly how it went down with some bands.  Kiss has basically made it clear that they were told in no uncertain terms "be lucky you're inducted at all; original four, non-negotiable".   I think it's like most of these decisions:  by the seat of the pants and depending on who is involved.   Wenner and the Dead go way back, even before the first issue of Rolling Stone, and the ethos of the Dead is one that Rolling Stone so sorely wants to emulate in the field of journalism.   The E Street Band is basically the RnRHoF house band; Jon Landau is their manager and Bruce's closest adviser, and Dave Marsh has based almost his entire literary career on the back of that band (I think he's written like four books on Bruce et. al, and of his three Sirius Radio talk shows, one is called "Live From E Street Nation" and one is called "Live From The Land Of Hopes And Dreams", a Bruce song).

It should be noted that Marsh is the same guy that called John Bonham "incompetent", Queen "fascists", and said, of Freddie Mercury, that he "had a passable pop voice".     

[jammindude]

And yet the hall was insistent that Mark Evans (original bass player for AC/DC who played on most of their early classics) should be in....but the Young brothers said "NO" and his name was removed.   That's right, he was originally announced as getting in, and then silently removed a few days before the ceremony with no explanation.    So the whole thing seems very "case by case" and whoever can argue their case better, and the hall might have the final say, but they can also be persuaded if they want somebody's participation bad enough.  (and they didn't give a rats ass about whether KISS participated or not)

But the Duran Duran comments in here are baffling to me.   I always considered them to be a more shallow version of The Cure and DM.  Certainly popular, but not as fundamentally influential as the first two....who did come first IIRC. 

EDIT - Guess I'm wrong.   According to the "years active" tag on Wiki, The Cure formed in 76, DD in 78, and DM in 80.  However The Cure released their debut in 79, and was on the third album in 81 when DD and DM released their debut albums.   And I don't think anyone knew who DD were until Rio, whereas DM had already begun to make a name for themselves by that point.

[TAC]

But the Duran Duran comments in here are baffling to me.   I always considered them to be a more shallow version of The Cure and DM.  Certainly popular, but not as fundamentally influential as the first two....who did come first IIRC. 

EDIT - Guess I'm wrong.   According to the "years active" tag on Wiki, The Cure formed in 76, DD in 78, and DM in 80.  However The Cure released their debut in 79, and was on the third album in 81 when DD and DM released their debut albums.   And I don't think anyone knew who DD were until Rio, whereas DM had already begun to make a name for themselves by that point.

I first heard of Duran Duran with Planet Earth. Is that on Rio?

I honestly don't know how Duran Duran's music compares to The Cure of Depeche Mode. But I will say that Duran Duran blew it up in the early to mid 80's and was THE band for many in that generation.

For you and me, J Dude, they were laughable video boys, but I believe they are due every accolade they get. And now when I hear their 80's songs, they stand up. Maybe they were better than we gave them credit for at the time, similar to 80's Rush.

[jammindude]

I remember actually liking The Reflex and Wild Boys (it was a bit more of an aggressive sound for them).   And when I was in high school, I seem to recall that I heard rumors that Andy Taylor was a bit more of a "rocker" who had pushed DD for more guitar driven songs.   But even when their songs were excellent, I just thought DM and The Cure were more introspective and/or socially conscious....so I tended to take them more seriously.     But I do need to dig into their stuff more.   They've stood the test of time, so they have earned a re-visit. 

[Stadler]

Planet Earth (and Girls On Film and Careless Whisper) were from the debut album in 1981.

Sorry, but only in America - with the homogenizing effect of MTV - were Duran Duran, the Cure and Depeche Mode confused.  They were from very different scenes in Britain.  DD was from the New Romantic movement, and came out of Birmingham.   The Cure were from the Goth rock scene (and born out of punk) and Depeche Mode was more a pure new-wave band (ala Human League).  The latter two were from the London area (and I believe Depeche Mode count The Cure as an influence). 

For me, Duran Duran SLAY both the Cure and Depeche Mode.   I love the music of the Cure, but can't really abide Robert Smith's vocals, and I really really like Dave Gahan's vocals but the music of Depeche Mode leaves me cold (no pun intended).    But Duran Duran is the perfect mix for me; I love the way Simon sings (I think he's a WAY underrated singer) and I could listen to John Taylor play bass all day long.  Duran Duran strikes me as the kind of band that, if they went in and decided to cut a metal album or a prog album they could do it and do it credibly. I think they are incredibly good musicians that chose to play this particular genre. 

There's a really great performance of "Wild Boys" from Jools Holland that SLAYS.   I don't know if I can link it or not, but a quick google of "duran duran later with Jools Holland" will get you where you need to go.   (It's Series 47, Episode 6, and all four of their performances are on the Duran Duran website.) 

[jammindude]

Careless Whisper was Wham.   But I looked up DD's first album and there is a Careless Memories.   I'm listening to it now, but I've never heard it before. 

I absolutely acknowledge that Girls on Film was big....but remember that the first album (and subsequently Girls on Film) was not even released in the US until Rio hit it big.   So while the debut made a small splash in the UK.   The US (for the most part) never gave the debut a second look until Rio. 

[Stadler]

Careless Whisper was Wham.   But I looked up DD's first album and there is a Careless Memories.   I'm listening to it now, but I've never heard it before. 

I absolutely acknowledge that Girls on Film was big....but remember that the first album (and subsequently Girls on Film) was not even released in the US until Rio hit it big.   So while the debut made a small splash in the UK.   The US (for the most part) never gave the debut a second look until Rio.

It was Careless Memories; that's my mental lapse.  The point wasn't to quibble about timing, though, it was to answer someone else's question as to whether it was on Rio or not, and to say that maybe from a fifteen year old metal head's point of view (i.e. mine) they all sounded the same, but they weren't, any more than AC/DC, Kiss, and Aerosmith were the same, even though they both debuted around a year or so from each other.

My point was (I combined it above. No I was not hit by a bus.)

[The Walrus]

My point was

What was it?! I didn't even see him mention Candlejack so whatever happened I hope Stadler

[TAC]

....but remember that the first album (and subsequently Girls on Film) was not even released in the US until Rio hit it big.   So while the debut made a small splash in the UK.   The US (for the most part) never gave the debut a second look until Rio.

Is all this true? I clearly remember the Planet Earth video on early MTV. I also remember them in a King Biscuit broadcast. I thought this was all built around Planet Earth time. I thought it was pre Rio....or at least before Rio blew up. But I thought it had its own time.

[jammindude]

I double checked on Wiki and discovered that I was TECHNICALLY incorrect about there being no US release...but in principle of its success, I was correct.

“ The initial US release was unsuccessful, though the album was reissued there in 1983 following the success of the band's second album, Rio, reached number 10 on the US Billboard 200, and spent 87 weeks on that chart. Duran Duran was certified platinum (a shipment of one million units) by the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) in June 1985.[8]”

[Stadler]

....but remember that the first album (and subsequently Girls on Film) was not even released in the US until Rio hit it big.   So while the debut made a small splash in the UK.   The US (for the most part) never gave the debut a second look until Rio.

Is all this true? I clearly remember the Planet Earth video on early MTV. I also remember them in a King Biscuit broadcast. I thought this was all built around Planet Earth time. I thought it was pre Rio....or at least before Rio blew up. But I thought it had its own time.

Not precisely; it was released in the US, and "Girls On Film" was intended to be played on MTV (there was some controversy, because the video was risque and was intended for both MTV and to be played in clubs) in '81, but didn't make much of a dent.   Rio was then released and IT didn't make a dent.  Then the explosion of MTV and the simultaneous release of a bunch of dance mixes put them on the map. THEN they released the debut with an additional single on it ("Is There Something I Should Know?").   

[TAC]

I double checked and I was TECHNICALLY correct  about seeing the Planet Earth video before Rio.

https://www.answers.com/Q/When_did_the_Planet_Earth_video_by_Duran_Duran_premiere_on_MTV

[KevShmev]

I don't remember seeing the Duran Duran videos from the first album at first, but Hungry Like the Wolf was just a landmark video for MTV that those early ones popped up here and there (except for Girls on Film, which I think was considered too explicit in 1982 to put on daytime TV).

I am sure others remember the Friday Night Video Fights that were in the rage around '83-84', and I remember Def Leppard's Pyromania dominating for like 10 weeks in '83, and then The Reflex dominating for a long time as well in '84.  I was always more partial to Union of the Snake and New Moon on Monday from the Seven and the Ragged Tiger album, but The Reflex was so massively popular that I think it even eclipsed Hungry Like the Wolf.