Learning to play guitar...

[Elite]

Absolutely agree with all of that! All of my younger students start on classical guitars, no exception. I was indeed talking about adult who pick up the guitar and have a better idea of what they want to play than a child who’s just starting out.

[kirksnosehair]

Barry, Kade, Doc, those are all excellent suggestions, so thanks.  I think I'm going to try that idea on the backing tracks and see if I can get to the point like Barry said where it's muscle memory.  I do too much thinking at this point, I think.

Sounds great. Like any subject, there's a nearly infinite amount of data available that you could absorb, but I think the key is just to do what interests YOU and what YOU enjoy and nothing else. Rock on. 

This cannot be emphasized enough.  The minute playing becomes a chore you've lost it.  It should always be fun to play and practice. 

[Kotowboy]

I remember starting out. Clearly remember barre chords being the big hurdle. I almost gave up cause it was so hard to play an E then move it up the neck without losing formation.

But once you can play an E barre chord and an Aminor shape anywhere on the neck - you can almost play any song so I can see why some people get barre chords down then just stop

learning anything else. But get all the campfire chords and barre chords down then you can almost play any song with the help of a capo !

---

I did a music degree and studied theory for 3 years - but I still couldn't tell you WHEN to use an augmented chord. I just know what it sounds like and why it resolves and yadda yadda...

[Elite]

Barry, Kade, Doc, those are all excellent suggestions, so thanks.  I think I'm going to try that idea on the backing tracks and see if I can get to the point like Barry said where it's muscle memory.  I do too much thinking at this point, I think.

Sounds great. Like any subject, there's a nearly infinite amount of data available that you could absorb, but I think the key is just to do what interests YOU and what YOU enjoy and nothing else. Rock on. 

This cannot be emphasized enough.  The minute playing becomes a chore you've lost it.  It should always be fun to play and practice. 

That’s exactly the whole point I made on the previous page, so I obviously agree. That said, sometimes you’ll have to practice through difficulties in order to get better, but you should make it fun. Practice in the context of actual music and learn stuff you want to learn and stuff you’ll be able to apply.

[hunnus2000]

Not all students are the same (obviously). An adult learning to play the guitar will struggle more because the joints and tendons in the hands are less flexible whereas a younger persons hands will adjust to chord voicings more easily.

Now I completely agree about "rock on" and play what you want but I am not saying become a classical guitarist, I'm saying start out learning on a classical guitar for about 6 months to a year especially for a young kid.

[Kotowboy]

My dad bought home a red strat copy when I was about 12.

Dad played for church so he already knew how to play (chords at least) - when I was tiny he taught me Em and "easy G" where its just fret 3 on the high e string and D major.

So I learned on that red electric and never owned a nylon string.

I used to make up my own chords by moving existing shapes around and my own theory to go with it. I used to write songs and draw the chord boxes of the shapes I invented so I wouldn't forget.

I also had a piano at the same age so I could relate what I'd learned on either instrument back and forth.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Thought I'd come here with a related question. Apologies if it's too off topic.

I fiddle around with guitar from time to time, but have only ever played through my amp. I'd like to get some kind of effects pedal next year, but don't know where to start. I'm just looking for something affordable, but still decent quality, that offers a bit of crunch and overdrive. Does anyone know of anything that would make sense for a low-level intermediate player such as myself?

I hope that question made some semblance of sense, because I really don't know what I'm talking about.

[hunnus2000]

Thought I'd come here with a related question. Apologies if it's too off topic.

I fiddle around with guitar from time to time, but have only ever played through my amp. I'd like to get some kind of effects pedal next year, but don't know where to start. I'm just looking for something affordable, but still decent quality, that offers a bit of crunch and overdrive. Does anyone know of anything that would make sense for a low-level intermediate player such as myself?

I hope that question made some semblance of sense, because I really don't know what I'm talking about.

Your wanting a distortion box? I would go to a guitar shop and try several and then buy one on the cheap at a pawn shop. Boss pedals are pretty popular and cheap.

[Ben_Jamin]

I remember starting out. Clearly remember barre chords being the big hurdle. I almost gave up cause it was so hard to play an E then move it up the neck without losing formation.

But once you can play an E barre chord and an Aminor shape anywhere on the neck - you can almost play any song so I can see why some people get barre chords down then just stop

learning anything else. But get all the campfire chords and barre chords down then you can almost play any song with the help of a capo !

---

I did a music degree and studied theory for 3 years - but I still couldn't tell you WHEN to use an augmented chord. I just know what it sounds like and why it resolves and yadda yadda...

Of all the articles and things I read about Music Theory, each one has helped me in a very different aspect, the one important thing is this...Music Theory is the language created to understand Music. There are no rules to music. Only what sounds fitting, it's why the Locrian scale isn't used because it's really disharmonic, and to our human ears, it doesn't sound "good". But it could still be used.

So, using an Augmented Chord is all up to you and if you feel the song needs that augmented chord, either for transitional smoothness, or for effect of the song needing the augmented chord to portray a certain mood of the song, then by all means go for it.

One thing I did learn that really helped me in creating my own songs, and actually playing random stuff and sounding decent enough, is Chord Progressions. Understanding this concept really has helped my playing.

Not all students are the same (obviously). An adult learning to play the guitar will struggle more because the joints and tendons in the hands are less flexible whereas a younger persons hands will adjust to chord voicings more easily.

Now I completely agree about "rock on" and play what you want but I am not saying become a classical guitarist, I'm saying start out learning on a classical guitar for about 6 months to a year especially for a young kid.

Nylons are great for younger kids. The strings aren't as tough on the fingers, and they can play a bit better.




I will say this though, having an understanding of Basic Music Theory can help you immensely. Not only in playing guitar, but in playing other instruments. Once you understand Theory, it's a lot easier to grasp the concept of each musical instrument and their roles in the overall Staff of Music. Learning this on a Piano, also helped me understand the roles of Guitar and Bass. How the Guitar can use notes, that the bass can not (or else it sounds muddy). Which leads me to another important Theory Lesson, Voicings. Once I got that concept down, it helped me understand the roles of the Bass and the roles of the Treble. How the Bass is different from the Treble.

So I would say, Understanding Theory, Voicings, and Chord Progressions, are the trinity to helping one compose songs of their own.

I've played and practiced Chord Positions all over the guitar, and found out the chords for some songs. The way that happened was, I would play that chord in a certain position, and while playing it I'll notice and say "Hey, that's the chord for this song".

Knowing these 3 things has also helped me in doing what I enjoy doing for fun, and that is creating mashups.

One fantastic example of this is when I first heard One Day by Matisyahu, I instantly noticed it sounds a lot like Waving Flag by K'Naan (The original album version, not the remixes). So in my undertaking of making the mash up and wanting to actually play the mashup myself, and make it my own blend of the two songs, I discovered they use the same exact key and chords, only in a different progression. Matisyahus' progression is a simple progression, while K'Naans' is a bit more complex. Here is the mashup I edited together from the two songs. It's the best way to get the idea of what I want My Mashup to sound close to. K'Naan/Matisyahu One Day Waving Flag (Mashup)

[Kotowboy]

One thing I did learn that really helped me in creating my own songs, and actually playing random stuff and sounding decent enough, is Chord Progressions. Understanding this concept really has helped my playing.

I found the CAGED system really helpful myself.


EDIT :


One of my tutors gave me the BEST advice in a 30 min one-on-one lesson. He said - play all the notes of a scale and learn how they FEEL compared to how they sound.

If you think of every interval as a FEELING then it will really help you know which notes to go to when soloing. And you will rely less on boxes and licks and your bag of tricks.

[hunnus2000]

I have to add - I often think about how influential YouTube would have been if I had it back in my day..........

[Elite]

I have to add - I often think about how influential YouTube would have been if I had it back in my day..........

I'm probably more a product of this time than you (I guess?), and while I have looked at Youtube for help occasionally and I have learned some from it, the best guitar lessons I have ever had were from people physically in the same room with me. There's something invaluable about getting direct feedback and playing together with a tutor at the same time. Also, good instructional videos can not replicate practicing a ton.

One of my tutors gave me the BEST advice in a 30 min one-on-one lesson. He said - play all the notes of a scale and learn how they FEEL compared to how they sound.

If you think of every interval as a FEELING then it will really help you know which notes to go to when soloing. And you will rely less on boxes and licks and your bag of tricks.

Eye-hand coordination as well as something that in my language make a lot of sense, but translating it gives this wonky 'sound-grip connection'* are huge parts of getting good at your instrument.


* (which basically means you know what kind of sound your instrument is going to produces based on what you're doing with your hands before even touching it - I don't really know if there's an English term for the same thing?)

[DoctorAction]

What was the first thing you learned to play on the guitar? I mean, when you WANTED to learn it because you (my reason) loved Iron Maiden, Bon Jovi, etc (not because you were made to learn London's Burning at school or by a parent).

Mine was the intro riff to War Machine by Kiss. A buddy at school was a fantastic self-taught player and he taught me it. Then the intro to Master Of Puppets too, sort of.

Bit of a pivotal moment, really. I'm not in touch with him anymore but would love to chat with him and talk guitars now, 34 (?) years on.

[Lowdz]

What was the first thing you learned to play on the guitar? I mean, when you WANTED to learn it because you (my reason) loved Iron Maiden, Bon Jovi, etc (not because you were made to learn London's Burning at school or by a parent).

Mine was the intro riff to War Machine by Kiss. A buddy at school was a fantastic self-taught player and he taught me it. Then the intro to Master Of Puppets too, sort of.

Bit of a pivotal moment, really. I'm not in touch with him anymore but would love to chat with him and talk guitars now, 34 (?) years on.

similar experience for me - a guitar playing mate showed me Breaking The Law and Living After Midnight riffs and I was off from there. The first riff I figured out for myself was Ace Frehley's Rip It Out.
My mate was into 60s stuff but mainly Status Quo. I would be a far happier guitarist if that was all I aimed for.

[wolfking]

I can't quite remember.  I'm pretty sure though it was something from Nirvana or Green Day.  Maybe even The Offspring.

[bl5150]

Probably something like Detroit Rock City.   Hard to remember - early days I used to order those Learn To Burn cassette tapes from the US from Curt Mitchell (later in Razormaid and Bangalore Choir) where he would read out the freaking tabs note by note and you would have to write them down on paper yourself      So by the time they came in the mail from the US and you got up the motivation to go through that ordeal .............well you must have been motivated.   I remember doing that for Killer Of Giants by Ozzy 

[Lowdz]

Back in the day I used to buy loads of tab books (Yngwie, Vai, Satch, Vinnie Moore etc) and sit and follow the tabs whilst listening to the albums. Did bugger all for my guitar playing 

[Elite]

What was the first thing you learned to play on the guitar? I mean, when you WANTED to learn it because you (my reason) loved Iron Maiden, Bon Jovi, etc (not because you were made to learn London's Burning at school or by a parent).

I can vividly remember playing Jingle Bells. That was the first 'song' I learned to play on a guitar. All in single notes, top 2 strings.

When I started out on an acoustic guitar, I was messing around playing random stuff that I thought of. I have booklet written full of nonsensical riffs and chord progressions I made myself. I think one of the first things I practiced because I wanted to must have been something by Metallica. Maybe the intro to One, or the main riff in Master of Puppets. I can remember going to a friend's place with my first electric guitar and playing the Master of Puppets riff there. I can't remember whether I did it well, but I probably did not

Most of my time was spent playing random stuff. I have terrible recordings of a lot of different riffs and try-outs that I made when I was younger. It's quite funny to listen to those and to hear how sloppy and just bad they are

I was around 16 when I discovered how awesome the guitar parts in Dream Theater are and made it a goal to learn ALL of Scenes From a Memory. Of course, I couldn't do that when I was just starting out, but by the time I left high school around two years later I could play all the songs in full, apart from some solos (Fatal Tragedy, Beyond the Life, Home, the fast part in The Spirit Carries On) and The Dance of Eternity (I didn't have a seven-string).

If I could go back in time, I'd tell myself to practice other stuff as well!

[hunnus2000]

Twinkle Twinkle Little Star.

I found an aging guitar with 3 strings on it and pretty soon my big brother went and bought me a full set of strings. At around this time, my grade school (8th grade) started offering elective classes and one of these classes were guitar lessons twice a week. The next song was Leaving on a Jet Plane and very soon my guitar teacher wrote my mom a letter saying that I'm really picking up the guitar very fast but needed a better guitar. The next songs were Cat Scratch Fever and Stairway to Heaven.

Yes - I'm showing my age.....

[Lonk]

The first thing I learned was the riff to this spanish rock song by the band Mana. A friend of mine showed me how to play it and I was hooked after that. Next thing I remember learning was the arpeggios to Nothing Else Matters. I was very proud of playing it and thought it was the coolest thing I've done in my life.

[Stadler]

The Prisoner, by Iron Maiden, or Proud Mary by Creedence.

First song all the way through:  Paranoid, by Black Sabbath, then Living After Midnight.

First real accomplishment: Stairway to Heaven, then The Rain Song. 

[kirksnosehair]

What was the first thing you learned to play on the guitar?

Stairway to Heaven - I learned it on an old steel-string auditorium acoustic that my grandfather gave me.   Within about a year from picking up that acoustic, (that was probably 1975(ish) I had moved on to an electric (a tele that my old man got me at a pawn shop) and I became infatuated with playing lead guitar.  It had to be lead, that's all I ever wanted to play.  About a year and a half after I started playing that electric the Eagles released "Hotel California" and within a week of it being released I was playing the guitar solo note for note.  I was 13 at the time.  I'd give my balls to be 13 again 

[DoctorAction]

 

Great replies, all. Regardless of how messily I play, I LOVE that I have this weird place in my head I can go and tinker with notes and tones and create things, no matter how derivative or fleeting they are. It's a fantastic hobby.

[hunnus2000]

Well - if we're bragging about our accomplishments:

The Rain Song - in standard tuning
The Song Remains the Same
2112
Xanadu
La Via Strangiato
A Mid-Summers Daydream - on a classical guitar of course. 

[kirksnosehair]

I'm really not bragging but I've learned how to play so many songs over the years that it would take me hours to come up with a complete list.  Pretty much anything you ever heard on the radio from 1975 until now I've taken a swing at on guitar, piano, sax and/or bass guitar.  Call it the musical baggage of being just this side of 60

[wolfking]

I'm pretty sure I've forgotten more songs than I know how to currently play.  Although I can pick up most things and play along in some capacity without learning it in the first instance.

[kirksnosehair]

I'm pretty sure I've forgotten more songs than I know how to currently play.  Although I can pick up most things and play along in some capacity without learning it in the first instance.

Same.  At one point, when I first started playing guitar I tried to keep a running list of the songs I was learning but after doing that for about 5 years I realized how impractical it was.  I mean how big of a catalog can one guitarist maintain at one time while still being able to play every song fluently?  20 or 30 would probably be my limit on guitar.  A lot less on piano.  Maybe 10 or 15 at the most. 

[DoctorAction]

I'm pretty sure I've forgotten more songs than I know how to currently play.  Although I can pick up most things and play along in some capacity without learning it in the first instance.

Ditto. I used to play in a covers band and the most amount ot material I ever learned was about 2 and a half hours of covers played over three sets for a NYE gig. My poor memory got a bastard workout! It's amazing how much effort it takes just to get to mediocre in a covers band.

In general terms, and including the covers band, I made a decision quite some time ago to stop learning much detail of other band's songs. I mean, obviously, you need to play other people's stuff to learn anything at all, really, but I prioritised my noodling and my personal style and enjoyment over rigidly learning note-for-note copies. This was a fundamentally great thing for me, and really opened the door to greater satisfaction.

I guess what I mean is: in the covers band, I almost never learned a perfect solo, just the key features of it and improvised around the rest; at home I concentrate 90% of my time on riff improv, writing and lead technique and about 10% on learning specific parts of others' songs.

What's a typical guitar day for everyone else?

[Elite]

So, this has become the DTF Guitar Player's thread now then? let's do away with the whole Musicians subforum! (no seriously, I love discussing actually playing music and this is a fun thread, so I hope this can continue).


It depends on the day really for me. I practice every day, without question. Minimum of half an hour, but usually more. If I have a full day available (aside from doing the household chores etc.) I will do 'everything'; play a bit of classical or fingerstyle, warm-up exercises, work on reading music, practice some techniques and learn a song/theme/melody/whatever. I have a bunch of exercises I do to keep my left hand in shape, this playlist of songs I play a lot in order to keep (mostly) my right hand in shape and have a playlist of jazz tunes to work on improvisation.

Now this looks pretty focused, but that's not necessarily the case. In the past I've set some silly goals with an actual practice regimen I would follow for a week/month/whatever. The silliest thing I did was a 'guitar marathon'; that is 42 hours of practice in 7 days, divided in specific segments, but I've made a point of playing for 2,5 hours a day for an entire month as well, working on different aspects of playing.

Usually though, I'll warm up with some exercises or playing a song and then work on some technique, a song I'm working on or improvisation. It kind of depends on the day. I make notes of what I was doing or transcribe/write down whatever it was I was working on, so that I continue the next day.

[ReaperKK]

Hey fellow guitar players!

I've gotten to practice a ton this year because I was fortunate to work from home. I usually practice on meetings with my guitar unplugged and my phone on mute so with that plus the practice I do after work I'm getting something like 4 hours in most weekdays.

As for practice schedule what I do is I have a spreadsheet for the month with exercises and goals I want to hit. I do about 6 exercises a day for about 5-10 minutes each, after that I hardly see any improvement. Then I'll put time aside for transcribing, improv and recording. After that with the time I have left I'll either work on writing or learning songs.

[Stadler]

I'm really not bragging but I've learned how to play so many songs over the years that it would take me hours to come up with a complete list.  Pretty much anything you ever heard on the radio from 1975 until now I've taken a swing at on guitar, piano, sax and/or bass guitar.  Call it the musical baggage of being just this side of 60

What's your breakdown in terms of "time playing"?  Meaning, in any given day or week, how much is guitar, how much is piano, how much is bass....  not talking recording, just playing.   (Does this make sense?  I'm basically going for, if you're going to pick up an instrument what is it most likely to be)?

[Stadler]

In general terms, and including the covers band, I made a decision quite some time ago to stop learning much detail of other band's songs. I mean, obviously, you need to play other people's stuff to learn anything at all, really, but I prioritised my noodling and my personal style and enjoyment over rigidly learning note-for-note copies. This was a fundamentally great thing for me, and really opened the door to greater satisfaction.

I guess what I mean is: in the covers band, I almost never learned a perfect solo, just the key features of it and improvised around the rest; at home I concentrate 90% of my time on riff improv, writing and lead technique and about 10% on learning specific parts of others' songs.

What's a typical guitar day for everyone else?

I wish I could do that.  It's a mental block with me, a sort of hurdle.  In my head (I know, I know) I get discouraged if I CAN'T play it like they did.  But that's unreasonable, for a 100 different reasons, especially with studio tracks.   There are a couple tunes I just do however I can, sort of re-arrangements of what was originally played, but it's stressful to me.  .  (I laugh, but I'm not really kidding.)

[HOF]

In general terms, and including the covers band, I made a decision quite some time ago to stop learning much detail of other band's songs. I mean, obviously, you need to play other people's stuff to learn anything at all, really, but I prioritised my noodling and my personal style and enjoyment over rigidly learning note-for-note copies. This was a fundamentally great thing for me, and really opened the door to greater satisfaction.

I guess what I mean is: in the covers band, I almost never learned a perfect solo, just the key features of it and improvised around the rest; at home I concentrate 90% of my time on riff improv, writing and lead technique and about 10% on learning specific parts of others' songs.

What's a typical guitar day for everyone else?

I wish I could do that.  It's a mental block with me, a sort of hurdle.  In my head (I know, I know) I get discouraged if I CAN'T play it like they did.  But that's unreasonable, for a 100 different reasons, especially with studio tracks.   There are a couple tunes I just do however I can, sort of re-arrangements of what was originally played, but it's stressful to me.  .  (I laugh, but I'm not really kidding.)

Yeah, this is something I struggle with too. Most studio tracks have layers of guitars and punched in parts that you can’t just play with one guitar by yourself. I play acoustic, so in terms of playing a whole song, I can play all the underlying chords for a bunch of more basic rock songs, but that’s often not very satisfying because it doesn’t feel like I’m playing the whole song. Then when you get into trying to pick or strum a guitar part exactly the way it is on the album, that’s another story altogether.

[T-ski]

I was just hoping to get some tips and motivation when I started this thread. 

[Snow Dog]

First song I learned? Not sure, but probably just a few simple riffs. Smoke on the Water, Seven Nation Army, Aerials, that kind of thing.

First song I could competently (read barely passably) get through? Probably Heart’s Barracuda.

Currently trying to nail down Divinyls by Night Flight Orchestra. Fun as hell, but a couple parts keep tripping me up with the lead playing. The rhythm and chords I’ve got down pretty well.

Speaking of lead playing, it’s easily my weakest part of playing. Quick single note runs just thrash the shit out of me, even with simple pentatonic scales. And I’ve never really been able to nail down a lead tone I’m satisfied with. Not sure what pedals and settings would work well for a classic rock/metal lead tone, and any time I try to play a run, it just sounds horrible even if I play it correctly.

Still a very fun hobby to get into, and there’s always something to work and improve on. A typical session usually just has me playing a few songs for 20-30 minutes as that’s what I currently have time for. Hoping to be back to things more regularly as time goes on.