Still Dealing with this after 8 years.

[King Postwhore]

 

[Stadler]

That took a minute or two, but you owe me a keyboard. 

[Samsara]

 


You know, Mangini is and will always be in a no-win situation. I think he's brilliant, and love the shows I've seen with him (two - ADToE in San Fran, and DoT in San Fran). But MP was one of the founding members and "creative director" (for lack of a better term) for what, 25 years? I DO miss his drumming style, and I do miss him being in the band, even if I think Mangini is BETTER for the band as currently constituted. (Not to mention that DoT is my favorite DT record since SFAM.)

So I find this whole MP-Mangini thing to be something that will never die, nor should it. But both should be respected and enjoyed. 

[lonestar]

King 

[Lupton]

 

They misspelt Dream Theatre 

[hefdaddy42]

God dammit King.

[pg1067]

I think it just FEELS like that angry woman/cat meme has been around for eight years....

[King Postwhore]

God dammit King.

 

I think it just FEELS like that angry woman/cat meme has been around for eight years....

It's like a 24 hour blizzard. It's down to flurries.

[gzarruk]

 

[lonestar]

God dammit King.

 

Hef 

[Fritzinger]

You know, Mangini is and will always be in a no-win situation. I think he's brilliant, and love the shows I've seen with him (two - ADToE in San Fran, and DoT in San Fran). But MP was one of the founding members and "creative director" (for lack of a better term) for what, 25 years? I DO miss his drumming style, and I do miss him being in the band, even if I think Mangini is BETTER for the band as currently constituted. (Not to mention that DoT is my favorite DT record since SFAM.)

So I find this whole MP-Mangini thing to be something that will never die, nor should it. But both should be respected and enjoyed. 

I can agree with ALL of this... DoT is not my favourite album since Metropolis, but the rest is 100% true for me.

[Mladen]

I loved that meme. 

[MirrorMask]

I have to say by now I'm over it. Back then all things being equal I wished it wouldn't have happened, but it did, and four albums later this is what DT are now. Basically for me the MP split is as distant as is Kevin Moore's departure.

[romdrums]

With D/T, Mangini cemented his place in the band, in my opinion.  I think, if they bring back MP for whatever reason, it will be a major step backwards.  As a drummer, MP was a HUGE influence on me, but as a DT fan, I'm firmly in the Mangini camp at this point.

[Samsara]

With D/T, Mangini cemented his place in the band, in my opinion.  I think, if they bring back MP for whatever reason, it will be a major step backwards.  As a drummer, MP was a HUGE influence on me, but as a DT fan, I'm firmly in the Mangini camp at this point.

If Mangini ever decides to step down on his own volition, I would be very disappointed if DT didn't welcome MP back. Life's too short for any sort of grudges. Whatever beefs still exist between MP and anyone in the band need to be buried. Take olive branches, and move forward. Too much great history to be any animosity.

[bosk1]

If such a situation were to arise and they didn't invite him back because of a grudge, I would agree.  But if they were to not invite him back because they didn't think he was a good fit for the band, I would have no qualms about that whatsoever.

[Lupton]

I wonder if these guys are ever going to get back together:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwrJVhB2LzE

[gzarruk]

If such a situation were to arise and they didn't invite him back because of a grudge, I would agree.  But if they were to not invite him back because they didn't think he was a good fit for the band, I would have no qualms about that whatsoever.

Bingo. I think things wouldn't work out for a number or reasons: The click track and steady production (which MP isn't a fan of), the musical direction the've taken now vs where Mike wanted to go (tough guy vocals, more metal, long wanky songs, among other things), Mike being in so many bands and projects at the same time that he wouldn't be able to really focus on DT full time again, unless he were to put all his other projects on hold, but it goes against what he's explicitly said (that he doesn't want to be remembered as the drummer of one band only, that variety is the spice of life, etc.); not to mention that DT has those annoying vocals.

[MirrorMask]

I wonder if Mike returns, what would be of his side projects.

Sons of Apollo and The Winery Dogs would be basically over I guess. Transatlantic is relatively rare and it could work. Flying Colors... an all stars band is a draw and the band is well liked, but MP being in DT would furthermore complcate their already next to unexistant free schedule. With Neal Morse he could be "just the drummer" and do it during DT's downtime.

[pg1067]

With D/T, Mangini cemented his place in the band, in my opinion.  I think, if they bring back MP for whatever reason, it will be a major step backwards.  As a drummer, MP was a HUGE influence on me, but as a DT fan, I'm firmly in the Mangini camp at this point.

If Mangini ever decides to step down on his own volition, I would be very disappointed if DT didn't welcome MP back. Life's too short for any sort of grudges. Whatever beefs still exist between MP and anyone in the band need to be buried. Take olive branches, and move forward. Too much great history to be any animosity.

Most of this is too simplistic.  Let's say MM decides to leave -- all on his own and for whatever reason.  The remaining four members sit down to discuss the path forward, and JP says, "well, what about reaching out to MP?"  If JLB says, "you know, I just don't want to go back down that road and really don't want to go back to where we were 10+ years ago," I think the rest of the guys have to respect that.  Even if they did bring him back, there are a lot of fine details that would have to be hashed out.  For example, does he come back as a full member or a hired gun?  Maybe DT wants him back as a hired gun, but MP doesn't want that.  How do they unravel whatever agreements were made following his 2010 departure?  It's easy for fans to say, "eh, they can work that stuff out," but the reality of it is that those things sometimes prove insurmountable.  Or, maybe it would be easy to work out, but it certainly isn't as simple as "bury the hatchet."

[gzarruk]

I wonder if Mike returns, what would be of his side projects.

Sons of Apollo and The Winery Dogs would be basically over I guess. Transatlantic is relatively rare and it could work. Flying Colors... an all stars band is a draw and the band is well liked, but MP being in DT would furthermore complcate their already next to unexistant free schedule. With Neal Morse he could be "just the drummer" and do it during DT's downtime.

Plot twist: they contiune without him

Seriously, though, I've always wondered who could replace MP in all the bands he's in, if something like this once happened (or if he joined a big, well stablished and steady gig). For the bands with Neal, Nick D'Virgilio is a no brainer. Metal Allegiance already has Charlie Benante. For TWD, they could get any of the hard rock guys like Brian Tichy, and SOA wouldn't be that different, maybe someone a little more proggy.

[hefdaddy42]

I doubt Nick would replace MP with Neal Morse.  He's already plenty busy, AFAIK.

[Samsara]

With D/T, Mangini cemented his place in the band, in my opinion.  I think, if they bring back MP for whatever reason, it will be a major step backwards.  As a drummer, MP was a HUGE influence on me, but as a DT fan, I'm firmly in the Mangini camp at this point.

If Mangini ever decides to step down on his own volition, I would be very disappointed if DT didn't welcome MP back. Life's too short for any sort of grudges. Whatever beefs still exist between MP and anyone in the band need to be buried. Take olive branches, and move forward. Too much great history to be any animosity.

Most of this is too simplistic.  Let's say MM decides to leave -- all on his own and for whatever reason.  The remaining four members sit down to discuss the path forward, and JP says, "well, what about reaching out to MP?"  If JLB says, "you know, I just don't want to go back down that road and really don't want to go back to where we were 10+ years ago," I think the rest of the guys have to respect that.  Even if they did bring him back, there are a lot of fine details that would have to be hashed out.  For example, does he come back as a full member or a hired gun?  Maybe DT wants him back as a hired gun, but MP doesn't want that.  How do they unravel whatever agreements were made following his 2010 departure?  It's easy for fans to say, "eh, they can work that stuff out," but the reality of it is that those things sometimes prove insurmountable.  Or, maybe it would be easy to work out, but it certainly isn't as simple as "bury the hatchet."

Simplistic -- something most of my posts have never been accused of. 

I think you're over-analyzing it. All I am saying is that if MM decides to step down and pursue other things, *I* would be disappointed if MP wasn't approached, because of everything I said.

I didn't say that was WHAT WOULD happen. I actually agree with those that think it is unlikely.

As for the "bury the hatchet" comment, I don't think it's that far-fetched. Obviously MP has a good relationship again with JP and JR. Who knows, regarding JM. And obviously, there is probably some sort of an issue with JLB. Whose issue it is, and what has/has not been done to address it, I don't know. All I do know is, the two of them are being ridiculous. JLB has taken the high road publicly for sure. And publicly, MP has looked like an idiot. But we don't know what has gone on privately.

So before you knock my post for being "simple," I think you need to examine it for what I actually said, not what you think I said, PG.

[pg1067]

Who knows, regarding JM.

In this or any other context, this is the most true thing ever written here.


As for the rest of this, it's also important to examine what I wrote for what I actually said.

I wrote, "Most of this is too simplistic."  When I wrote that, I was not referring to this:  "If Mangini ever decides to step down on his own volition, I would be very disappointed if DT didn't welcome MP back."  That is clearly opinion and something I might very well agree with.

Was the rest of what I wrote over-analysis?  Maybe, but it most definitely addressed what you actually wrote.

[King Postwhore]

You guys know this thread was a joke right?

[Samsara]

You guys know this thread was a joke right?

Totally. The meme was hysterical.

As for PG and I, we both, I think, do some similar work. So a little back and forth, in good fun, is always meant for just that -- good fun.

[Fritzinger]

Didn't JLB once say that this version of Dream Theater (MM-JM-JP-JLB-JR) would be the one they would continue with until the end? Maybe if MM quits, the band just quits, too?

[MirrorMask]

Didn't JLB once say that this version of Dream Theater (MM-JM-JP-JLB-JR) would be the one they would continue with until the end? Maybe if MM quits, the band just quits, too?

Eh, it's easy to say that, but when faced with the fact, and with the concrete realization that it could be it, the end of their carrer and lifelong dream.... would they REALLY quit because the most junior member leaves? bands can't even stay retired for real after having quit, and you want Petrucci and Myung who started this all the way back in 1985 to stop doing their lifetime's work because the drummer left? if they mean it and they stick to it more power to them and their commitment, but I wouldn't hold my breath. I llike MM, I'm very glad he's in the band and I hope he sticks until the end, but if DT survived without a 25 years drummer (and founding member and one of the creative forces of the band), they can survive as well without a guy who's been "just" the drummer for 10 years.

[Setlist Scotty]

Didn't JLB once say that this version of Dream Theater (MM-JM-JP-JLB-JR) would be the one they would continue with until the end? Maybe if MM quits, the band just quits, too?

Eh, it's easy to say that, but when faced with the fact, and with the concrete realization that it could be it, the end of their carrer and lifelong dream.... would they REALLY quit because the most junior member leaves? bands can't even stay retired for real after having quit, and you want Petrucci and Myung who started this all the way back in 1985 to stop doing their lifetime's work because the drummer left? if they mean it and they stick to it more power to them and their commitment, but I wouldn't hold my breath. I llike MM, I'm very glad he's in the band and I hope he sticks until the end, but if DT survived without a 25 years drummer (and founding member and one of the creative forces of the band), they can survive as well without a guy who's been "just" the drummer for 10 years.

Exactly. And let's not forget that in the past it was stated that the JL-JP-JM-MP-JR lineup would be the final lineup. We know how that went. So I wouldn't put any stock into JL or anyone else making such a statement about the current lineup.

[Architeuthis]

That took a minute or two, but you owe me a keyboard. 

 

[pg1067]

You guys know this thread was a joke right?

Totally. The meme was hysterical.

As for PG and I, we both, I think, do some similar work. So a little back and forth, in good fun, is always meant for just that -- good fun.

 

Didn't JLB once say that this version of Dream Theater (MM-JM-JP-JLB-JR) would be the one they would continue with until the end? Maybe if MM quits, the band just quits, too?

I don't know if JLB said that (or, if he did say it, whether he was truly speaking on behalf of anyone other than himself), but it certainly would be a possibility if MM were to quit (a la Rush, although that's not a perfect analogy).  They (JR in particular, since he's more than ten years older than JP and JM) could very well say, "I'm too old for this crap," and call it a day.  I'm sure the likelihood of something like that would be extremely low if MM were to quit next year, as opposed to, e.g., sometime in the late 2020s.

[Max Kuehnau]

He shouldn't though. This line up is DT at their most consistent and it should remain for as long as possible.

[Stadler]

Didn't JLB once say that this version of Dream Theater (MM-JM-JP-JLB-JR) would be the one they would continue with until the end? Maybe if MM quits, the band just quits, too?

I'm the minority on this, I'm sure, but I took that to be a statement to those hoping that MM was temporary and MP would be back in time.

[KevShmev]

Didn't JLB once say that this version of Dream Theater (MM-JM-JP-JLB-JR) would be the one they would continue with until the end? Maybe if MM quits, the band just quits, too?

I'm the minority on this, I'm sure, but I took that to be a statement to those hoping that MM was temporary and MP would be back in time.

Agreed.  There were definitely some who figured Mangini was just keeping the sit warm until Portnoy returned, and I think that was LaBrie's way of shutting that down.

[gzarruk]

Of course they have to stand behind the current lineup and give it all they got, but if any of the members left at the end of the tour (just an example), I'm sure the band would find a replacement and move on. I believe they have a good 10+ years left before they call it a day (whether all the current members make it that far is another story). My impression is that they'll keep going until JP decides to retire, and I see him carrying on with the band, lineup changes or not, until then.