Very good, but OVERLONG songs?

[Evermind]

There's no such thing as an overlong song. Every song is exactly as long or as short as it needs to be.

Don't you think I'm a saviour
Don't you think I could save you
Don't you think I could save your life

Don't you think I'm a saviour
Don't you think I could save you
Don't you think I could save your life

Don't you think I'm a saviour
Don't you think I could save you
Don't you think I could save your life

Don't you think I'm a saviour
Don't you think I could save you
Don't you think I could save your life

Don't you think I'm a saviour
Don't you think I could save you
Don't you think I could save your life

Don't you think I'm a saviour
Don't you think I could save you
Don't you think I could save your life

Don't you think I'm a saviour
Don't you think I could save you
Don't you think I could save your life

Don't you think I'm a saviour
Don't you think I could save you
Don't you think I could save your life

 

[The Walrus]

So my opinion is wrong again. Fanbloodytastic. It's mob rule round here. You have to tow the party line or else you get destroyed.

Dude, settle down. You're overreacting. Nobody ever said anything close to "you have to tow the party line" - you just said something a lot of people apparently disagree with. That's quite literally it. You can take it personally or you can tell everyone to suck eggs like I would 'cause your opinion's just as valid

[RoeDent]

Your opinion is not wrong. This whole thread is based on opinion of what you think is too long (for a song).

It feels like it, a lot of the time. I very rarely see anyone stating that they agree with my opinions, however the opposite is frequently true. And those people feel they need to tell me as such. I just state my opinions, is all. I don't expect (or want) anything in return, really. It just is what it is. Each song is exactly the length it needs to be.

[ChuckSteak]

Beardfish - Sleeping in Traffic - 30 minute song  Great song that takes all kinds of twist and turns.

NOOOOOO way! This song is perfection and every bit as long as it needs to be! 

[ariich]

Your opinion is not wrong. This whole thread is based on opinion of what you think is too long (for a song).

It feels like it, a lot of the time. I very rarely see anyone stating that they agree with my opinions, however the opposite is frequently true. And those people feel they need to tell me as such. I just state my opinions, is all. I don't expect (or want) anything in return, really. It just is what it is. Each song is exactly the length it needs to be.

If we're being philosophical about what songs "need" to be, then no song needs to exist at all. I'm fairly sure this thread isn't about "need", it's about what people feel about songs. E.g. where you like the music/sound, but you find the song drags on.

[Adami]

Your opinion is not wrong. This whole thread is based on opinion of what you think is too long (for a song).

It feels like it, a lot of the time. I very rarely see anyone stating that they agree with my opinions, however the opposite is frequently true. And those people feel they need to tell me as such. I just state my opinions, is all. I don't expect (or want) anything in return, really. It just is what it is. Each song is exactly the length it needs to be.

I've written songs, recorded them, produced them (with what little means I have) and essentially finished them. Then later on I realized it could have been trimmed.

This thread isn't asking if songs are objectively overlong (at least I don't think so, I tend not to read WildRangers posts too deeply), it's asking if we think they're too long.

Hell, you want to hold my beer? I think 2112 is overly long. You're welcome, now no one is concerned with your opinion.

Again

2112 is too long.

[The Walrus]

2112 is boring as hell and shouldn't be anywhere near as long as it is.

You're welcome, Adami. 

[Adami]

2112 is boring as hell and shouldn't be anywhere near as long as it is.

You're welcome, Adami. 

Thanks! (you're wrong though)

[KevShmev]

Layla.  The first three minutes are gold, and the rest is garbage.

[WildRanger]

2112 is boring as hell and shouldn't be anywhere near as long as it is.

That is really a hot take. 2112 is one of Rush signature songs.

[romdrums]

Layla.  The first three minutes are gold, and the rest is garbage.

I completely agree. In fact, that whole song is WAAAYYY overrated.

[Stadler]

Your opinion is not wrong. This whole thread is based on opinion of what you think is too long (for a song).

It feels like it, a lot of the time. I very rarely see anyone stating that they agree with my opinions, however the opposite is frequently true. And those people feel they need to tell me as such. I just state my opinions, is all. I don't expect (or want) anything in return, really. It just is what it is. Each song is exactly the length it needs to be.

Actually, in a sense, I agree with you. I'm not a big one for telling the artists I listened to what they "should do"; I want to hear THEIR ideas.   Not to say there aren't moments I secretly wish were different, but generally, songs are what they are.  I get you.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

As far as overly-long Rush songs go, 2112 is not the first that comes to mind at all. (Looking at you, Fountain of Lamneth.)

[romdrums]

As far as overly-long Rush songs go, 2112 is not the first that comes to mind at all. (Looking at you, Fountain of Lamneth.)

I was looking at Hemispheres.

[Elite]

Hell, you want to hold my beer? I think 2112 is overly long. You're welcome, now no one is concerned with your opinion.

Again

2112 is too long.

But do you still think the song is 'very good'? Because that's what the OP is asking.


Actually, I have no idea what he's asking. A song that's objectively very good, but 'overlong'? What is 'very good'? When is it 'overlong'? Or 'very good' despite being 'overlong' (whatever that means)? I can't think of anything I would call 'very good' despite being 'overlong', if you define 'overlong' as being 'longer than it 'needs' (again, what?) to be'. On the other hand, I can think of many a song that's widely considered to be 'very good' that's also 'overlong' compared to the majority of songs. Am I over-thinking this? Perhaps, but what if the premise of the OP's question is just way too vague and too open to interpretation for there to be a correct answer? I can't even give a personal (subjective) answer to the question at the hand.


Whaaa

[SwedishGoose]

Deliverance by Opeth is the first that comes to mind. That repetitive outro could be shorter.

Oh no...... don"t cut out the best part

[ThatOneGuy2112]

I took the OP to mean songs that would be good if they were shortened/condensed, without necessarily rewriting it from the ground up.

Maybe it has a cool riff or groove, but it gets drawn out to the point of meaninglessness (someone brought up Opeth's Deliverance, which i feel totally applies).

Or maybe it has good moments peppered throughout, but is padded out with equally as many uninteresting moments as well. (For me, Fountain of Lamneth fits the bill).

[mike099]

Beardfish - Sleeping in Traffic - 30 minute song  Great song that takes all kinds of twist and turns.

NOOOOOO way! This song is perfection and every bit as long as it needs to be! 

Actually, I love the song as is, but lots of folks, especially hearing the song the first time, would be like wtf, is this ever going to end.

[MoraWintersoul]

I love a lot of long DT songs, but Black Clouds in particular suffers from overlong syndrome. Not a single song on that album I wouldn't cut something from, except Wither.

[KevShmev]

I love a lot of long DT songs, but Black Clouds in particular suffers from overlong syndrome. Not a single song on that album I wouldn't cut something from, except Wither.

I actually think The Count of Tuscany does a good job at not sounding as long as its length, which is always a good thing with songs that long.  The lyrics drag it down to the point where I never listen to it anymore, but I don't think it needed any musical trimming, generally speaking.

[ZKX-2099]

The only time a songs length bothers me is when there's some pointless noise/ambient bullshit tacked on at the end of it. I'm referring to songs like The Fluke by Devin Townsend and... well like a fourth of the songs by Periphery.

[WildRanger]

Layla.  The first three minutes are gold, and the rest is garbage.

Are we talking about original version by Derek & Dominos?

[pg1067]

Layla.  The first three minutes are gold, and the rest is garbage.

You're insane.

Layla.  The first three minutes are gold, and the rest is garbage.

Absolutely NOT. That second half (I always call it "coda") is just BEAUTIFUL and I almost like it better than the far more famous first part.

It's ok for the first 30-60 seconds, but it's bloody interminable.

So my opinion is wrong again. Fanbloodytastic. It's mob rule round here. You have to tow the party line or else you get destroyed.

Dude, settle down. You're overreacting. Nobody ever said anything close to "you have to tow the party line" - you just said something a lot of people apparently disagree with. That's quite literally it. You can take it personally or you can tell everyone to suck eggs like I would 'cause your opinion's just as valid

Seriously.  And, since RoeDent's opinion was to disagree with the very premise of the thread, it's not surprising he got some disagreement, but certainly no one "destroyed" or attempted to destroy him (heck, I got more "destroyed" for my opinion about Layla).


Another candidate for this thread would be DT's Misunderstood -- for the same reason as Layla.  The main part of the song is great.  The end section is fine for about 30 seconds, but after that I move on.

Layla.  The first three minutes are gold, and the rest is garbage.

Are we talking about original version by Derek & Dominos?

I was.  I think the acoustic version Clapton did in the early 90s is downright awful because it lost one of the most epic riffs in rock history.

[mike099]

I love a lot of long DT songs, but Black Clouds in particular suffers from overlong syndrome. Not a single song on that album I wouldn't cut something from, except Wither.

I actually think The Count of Tuscany does a good job at not sounding as long as its length, which is always a good thing with songs that long.  The lyrics drag it down to the point where I never listen to it anymore, but I don't think it needed any musical trimming, generally speaking.

And that intro is

[Ruba]

There's no such thing as an overlong song. Every song is exactly as long or as short as it needs to be.

Don't you think I'm a saviour
Don't you think I could save you
Don't you think I could save your life

Don't you think I'm a saviour
Don't you think I could save you
Don't you think I could save your life

Don't you think I'm a saviour
Don't you think I could save you
Don't you think I could save your life

Don't you think I'm a saviour
Don't you think I could save you
Don't you think I could save your life

Don't you think I'm a saviour
Don't you think I could save you
Don't you think I could save your life

Don't you think I'm a saviour
Don't you think I could save you
Don't you think I could save your life

Don't you think I'm a saviour
Don't you think I could save you
Don't you think I could save your life

Don't you think I'm a saviour
Don't you think I could save you
Don't you think I could save your life

To be honest, I love that song and I wouldn't cut anything from it. But I also listen to it very rarely.

I also like Don't Look to the Eyes of the Stranger. 

[OpenYourEyes311]

I love Master of Puppets, but I always thought it was one verse too long.

HARD disagree. Puppets is probably my favorite song ever in the 8-10 minute range. Perfectly executed metal epic.

My vote goes for So Many Roads by Neal Morse. Love that song, love the message. But at almost 30 minutes, I just can’t listen to it much anymore. Don’t know what you could cut, but there’s probably a section of “So many roads...” repetitions that they could have gotten rid of.

The funny thing is... the demo (found on the Waterfall streaming app... which is so worth getting) is even longer than the studio version. They actually lifted Children of the Chosen directly out of the middle of So Many Roads, so it was originally well over 30 minutes. I have since edited a version of the studio tracks together and it’s pretty cool. But now it’s WAY too long.

[KevShmev]

The first song that popped into my head was Church Of Your Heart by TFK. The first 6 minutes or so is one of my all-time favorite sections of music from them, but the song drags for an extra 3 minutes of unnecessary stuff.

I think I agree.  I like the song, but it's easily the song from Stardust We Are I listen to the least, largely because it always feels too long and if I am going to dedicate 9-10 minutes to a single song, I am going for something a lot better.

My vote goes for So Many Roads by Neal Morse. Love that song, love the message. But at almost 30 minutes, I just can’t listen to it much anymore. Don’t know what you could cut, but there’s probably a section of “So many roads...” repetitions that they could have gotten rid of.

While I know what you mean, I love it as it is.  There are a few minutes there where it does feel like the song is kind of swimming in circles (I guess what is called the "All the Way to the Grave" section), but the first three and last two parts are all so damn great that I can deal with the song being a bit too long in general thanks to the padding in part four.

[bosk1]

Your opinion is not wrong. This whole thread is based on opinion of what you think is too long (for a song).

It feels like it, a lot of the time. I very rarely see anyone stating that they agree with my opinions, however the opposite is frequently true. And those people feel they need to tell me as such. I just state my opinions, is all. I don't expect (or want) anything in return, really. It just is what it is.

I disagree with that.

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

There is not a single song that has even been released that is the appropriate length for a song, which is either 0.0000000000011885 picoseconds or 10.5 billion years

Bull of Heaven would like to have a word with you, considering they have songs covering both extremes of your randomly chosen times 

[dparrott]

Cutting a minute off DT's Repentance would make me like the song more.

[Fritzinger]

I love Master of Puppets, but I always thought it was one verse too long.

My vote goes for So Many Roads by Neal Morse. Love that song, love the message. But at almost 30 minutes, I just can’t listen to it much anymore. Don’t know what you could cut, but there’s probably a section of “So many roads...” repetitions that they could have gotten rid of.

So Many Roads has some beautiful moments, but I'd rank it in the lower 10% of Neal's epics. His 20min+ songs are always composed of several shorter songs, but he usually manages to tie them together so that they work as one piece (Stranger In Your Soul, World Without End). But So Many Roads is the one of his songs where that approach worked least.

[Zantera]

I always felt the Mew song Rows went on for 2, maybe 3 minutes too long. I think it's basically perfect for 7-8 minutes and had it ended with that big synth climax I would have loved it, but they kinda tagged on a 2-3 minute instrumental part at the end that changes the mood of the song a bit. That part in itself isn't bad but I feel had the song ended 2-3 minutes earlier, it would have been my favorite song by them and now it's "only" in my top5.

[MoraWintersoul]

Nightwish's intro for The Greatest Show on Earth goes on forever. And the outro as well. It's like the doctor ordered a 24 minutes song at all costs.

Just went through the thread - if that ain't the truth I don't know what is! Come to think of it, that's probably why I like the album more than some other people, I just skip most of that song so I make EFMB into a short, fun, easy breezy experience 

[?]

Moonloop by Porcupine Tree (any version)

I know it's long because it's an improv jam, but I like to pretend it doesn't exist, because I love the rest of The Sky Moves Sideways so much.

E: Whoops, just read "overlong" and not "very good"

[Elite]

Moonloop by Porcupine Tree (any version)

I know it's long because it's an improv jam, but I like to pretend it doesn't exist, because I love the rest of The Sky Moves Sideways so much.

What, nooo!