The first time you realized that interesting rhythms were your jam.

[jammindude]

To be honest, I was inspired by the title of the other thread, but I’m not sure I remember an exact moment. But YYZ would have to be an early front runner. (MP was the first album I ever owned)

Rush was a band that managed to hold my interest through their synth era mainly because they kept their rhythms intricate and interesting. I originally got into the “big 4” of thrash because they often experimented with odd time signatures that mainstream bands didn’t. And then, of course, many deeper prog band took it a step further.

I was inspired to create this thread after seeing this video of the breakdown of the beat of Pneuma by Tool. I had listened to it over a dozen times, and was still having trouble figuring out the exact count until I saw it broken down in this way, and I actually wish there were more videos like this.

Because....even after 27 years, I still don’t think I could exactly count out the instrumental breakdown in Metropolis like this. It baffles me to this day, and that is a reason why I love it so much

My favorite rhythms are like a puzzle box that you have to take a apart and try to figure out what the pattern is. If a band can both “find a groove” and still make me wonder what the crap they are doing...I’m in heaven.


(It’s less than a minute long, and you’ll get the idea for what I’m talking about)
https://youtu.be/f87T5VNgwzs

[Lupton]

Cool thread idea. For me...it was probably hearing the drum pattern that Neil Peart starts up in the middle (guitar arpeggio) section of Jacob’s Ladder. It’s like a 6/8 followed by a 7/8. In actuality it’s probably written as a 13/8. It was not so much the time signature itself (because anyone can count an odd time), but how he choose to place the kick and snare pattern as the thing builds momentum. Then he adds the china on the downbeat and switches it over to the upbeat after a couple bars. Then going on that disco-y open hi-hat groove. I get chills every time I hear it that section to this day. 

[MirrorMask]

Blame Dream Theater I guess. When I discovered them (took some time to get around their music actually) what they were doing was so beautiful and fascinating, that it basically opened the door for that sub-genre of music.

[Max Kuehnau]

In my case, that happened when I listened to Genesis for the first time at age 2 (Supper's Ready btw), I didn't know what happened during Apocalypse In 9/8 (yet, of course I know now), but I could hear four beats in a measure and so I knew that was not the case in that part of the piece. I'm serious btw.

[jammindude]

It's cool to see the replies.   But based on reaction, it seems like we might be in the minority.   

I suppose that's why "heaviness" in and of itself never mattered to me.    It might also be why BTBAM is the only band I listen to anymore that crosses the line in to "extreme metal" territory (or, close to it anyway).   It all revolves around whether or not a band can give me a "puzzle box" that keeps me entertained.

And pun not intended, it's also the reason Haken has been one of my top bands of the decade.

[Lupton]

 ^^^ For what it's worth I love Meshuggah for much the same reasons. They put these bizzarre polyrhythmic riffs mostly over 4/4. But there always seems to be some sort of "groove" to what they're doing. They're probably the only "extreme metal" band that I want to listen to. Like you, I'm not really interested in "heavyness" itself. There are other cools bands (like Animals As Leaders) doing the djent type thing that I also find interesting, but most of the other djent I've come across just seems like complexity for complexity's sake. I'm not knocking it...because I realize that others probably feel the same way about my tastes. Maybe its because I started listening to Meshuggah back in '98 so what they do is more imprinted in my brain. I've also seen them live twice. What they do comes across so much better in a live setting. Also, the constant screaming is (understandably) a turnoff for many people.

[Fritzinger]

In my case, that happened when I listened to Genesis for the first time at age 2 (Supper's Ready btw), I didn't know what happened during Apocalypse In 9/8 (yet, of course I know now), but I could hear four beats in a measure and so I knew that was not the case in that part of the piece. I'm serious btw.

Apocalypse in 9/8 still amazes me after like four thousand listens. I always try to "hear" the organ solo in 9/8. Or, like, concentrate on the solo which is in 4/4, but tap every 1 of every bar of the 9/8.

[Max Kuehnau]

In my case, that happened when I listened to Genesis for the first time at age 2 (Supper's Ready btw), I didn't know what happened during Apocalypse In 9/8 (yet, of course I know now), but I could hear four beats in a measure and so I knew that was not the case in that part of the piece. I'm serious btw.

Apocalypse in 9/8 still amazes me after like four thousand listens. I always try to "hear" the organ solo in 9/8. Or, like, concentrate on the solo which is in 4/4, but tap every 1 of every bar of the 9/8.

and then keep in mind that Rutherford is in 3/4 on top of PC and Banksie and PC accenting in all three time signatures. (so that would be a triple polyrhythm as it were). That's the genius of Genesis and PC for you. Pale Blue Dot has a similar section too btw.

[Stadler]

I'm weird with rhythms.   I'm one of those that doesn't really mind 4/4, if it's interesting.  I'm not interested in complicated for complicated's sake (for the 1,000th time: I'd rather hear Mike Portnoy play 27/14 and make it sound like 4/4, than Mike Mangini that plays 4/4 and makes it sound like 27/14). 

I love that part of The Storm in the chorus where Mike changes up the rhythm.  My favorite piece of music ever is the Medley part of "In The Cage" on 3SL where Phil and Chester come in and accompany Tony.   In my old age, I'm more and more inamored of John Bonham, and how he injected the "breath" into Zeppelin's music.  It took watching Temple Of The Dog playing Achilles Last Stand in Madison Square Garden (and watching/hearing Matt Cameron lead the band in a similar way) to really drive that point home.   It's why so few Zeppelin covers really get the essence of the band. 

[Adami]

The only kinds of rhythms I enjoy are ones that require a white board and an MIT grad to explain.

[Lupton]

Speaking of Portnoy. One of the cool things I always enjoyed was the way he would shift the rhythm around a steady riff (eg: intro to The Mirror, Honor Thy Father, 2nd part of Glass Prison, keyboard solo in Shattered Fortress). You'd have this consistent chugging riff, and he'd shift what he was doing around the riff to creating two or more different tempos and grooves in sequence. One of the very few things I miss about him not being in DT. I kindof hear Mangini doing his take on that approach (Behind the Veil chorus, The Walking Shadow), but I don't think it has that same quality.

[Max Kuehnau]

I'm weird with rhythms.   I'm one of those that doesn't really mind 4/4, if it's interesting.  I'm not interested in complicated for complicated's sake (for the 1,000th time: I'd rather hear Mike Portnoy play 27/14 and make it sound like 4/4, than Mike Mangini that plays 4/4 and makes it sound like 27/14). 

I love that part of The Storm in the chorus where Mike changes up the rhythm.  My favorite piece of music ever is the Medley part of "In The Cage" on 3SL where Phil and Chester come in and accompany Tony.   In my old age, I'm more and more inamored of John Bonham, and how he injected the "breath" into Zeppelin's music.  It took watching Temple Of The Dog playing Achilles Last Stand in Madison Square Garden (and watching/hearing Matt Cameron lead the band in a similar way) to really drive that point home.   It's why so few Zeppelin covers really get the essence of the band.

I see what you're saying (although I'm the other way round: MM making 4/4 sound like 27/16), but 27/14 can't ever work in that context, you need a multiple of four as the denominator. 27/16 does though. (and in case you're interested: the introductory section of AWE is in 25/16. Lovely lovely.) Nice you're mentioning that particular section of In The Cage too, thanks lots. (I'd mention Riding The Scree doing a similar thing rhythmically, I'm sure you know that piece too)

[The Letter M]

Listening to, and learning about Rush back in high school. As a band geek and a percussionist, I began to self-teach myself drumset, and I was turned on to Rush by a friend of mine who was also in the percussion section and played drumset, so I went online and downloaded some Rush songs from the likes of Napster and began to listen to those songs with a deeper ear towards their rhythms, how Neil intricately evolved his grooves and fills in his songs, how they wrote rhythms in odd times. As I was self-teaching, I began to tackle the likes of "La Villa Strangiato", "YYZ", "Cygnus X-1 Prologue", "Xanadu" and "Jacob's Ladder". By then, I was HOOKED on interesting and complex rhythms. It was the foothold I needed before diving deeper into the world of progressive music, but it was an important one, and it came at a very formative time for me, musically speaking. Until then, I had only listened to mostly radio hits on rock stations, and the odd bit of techno stuff (I blame Toonami and Fat Boy Slim, as well as Daft Punk), and rhythmically speaking, there wasn't a lot of variety there. Learning drums and listening to Rush at the same time set me on a path that I would never look back on, and I'm glad I've kept going forward!

-Marc.

[Lonk]

I'm weird with rhythms.   I'm one of those that doesn't really mind 4/4, if it's interesting.  I'm not interested in complicated for complicated's sake (for the 1,000th time: I'd rather hear Mike Portnoy play 27/14 and make it sound like 4/4, than Mike Mangini that plays 4/4 and makes it sound like 27/14). 

I love that part of The Storm in the chorus where Mike changes up the rhythm.  My favorite piece of music ever is the Medley part of "In The Cage" on 3SL where Phil and Chester come in and accompany Tony.   In my old age, I'm more and more inamored of John Bonham, and how he injected the "breath" into Zeppelin's music.  It took watching Temple Of The Dog playing Achilles Last Stand in Madison Square Garden (and watching/hearing Matt Cameron lead the band in a similar way) to really drive that point home.   It's why so few Zeppelin covers really get the essence of the band.

I see what you're saying (although I'm the other way round: MM making 4/4 sound like 27/16), but 27/14 can't ever work in that context, you need a multiple of four as the denominator. 27/16 does though. (and in case you're interested: the introductory section of AWE is in 25/16. Lovely lovely.) Nice you're mentioning that particular section of In The Cage too, thanks lots. (I'd mention Riding The Scree doing a similar thing rhythmically, I'm sure you know that piece too)

I know that you are (technically) right, but if we are being picky the song is actually alternating between 11/16 and 7/8.

[Max Kuehnau]

I'm weird with rhythms.   I'm one of those that doesn't really mind 4/4, if it's interesting.  I'm not interested in complicated for complicated's sake (for the 1,000th time: I'd rather hear Mike Portnoy play 27/14 and make it sound like 4/4, than Mike Mangini that plays 4/4 and makes it sound like 27/14). 

I love that part of The Storm in the chorus where Mike changes up the rhythm.  My favorite piece of music ever is the Medley part of "In The Cage" on 3SL where Phil and Chester come in and accompany Tony.   In my old age, I'm more and more inamored of John Bonham, and how he injected the "breath" into Zeppelin's music.  It took watching Temple Of The Dog playing Achilles Last Stand in Madison Square Garden (and watching/hearing Matt Cameron lead the band in a similar way) to really drive that point home.   It's why so few Zeppelin covers really get the essence of the band.

I see what you're saying (although I'm the other way round: MM making 4/4 sound like 27/16), but 27/14 can't ever work in that context, you need a multiple of four as the denominator. 27/16 does though. (and in case you're interested: the introductory section of AWE is in 25/16. Lovely lovely.) Nice you're mentioning that particular section of In The Cage too, thanks lots. (I'd mention Riding The Scree doing a similar thing rhythmically, I'm sure you know that piece too)

I know that you are (technically) right, but if we are being picky the song is actually alternating between 11/16 and 7/8.

very true of course, but that's how I analysed it for myself, I recognised that I have to deal with 16ths as the pulse and I went along till I ended up at the next 1.

[romdrums]

More than likely listening to Genesis' Three Sides Live as a kid, along with Santana and ELP.  I remember being drawn to the drums in a big way, and I haven't really stopped since.  Images and Words took it to the next level for me, and then Meshuggah's Chaosphere album blew the doors off.

[Max Kuehnau]

3SL is a right old banger yes. (these versions of Dodo and In The Cage, ah yes thank you very much). I listen to that one every day.

[LudwigVan]

Yeah I’d have to say Genesis. When I was in HS art class, this kid kept pushing the live album Seconds Out, and when I finally listened to Firth of Fifth, that was it.

[ytserush]

Listening to, and learning about Rush back in high school. As a band geek and a percussionist, I began to self-teach myself drumset, and I was turned on to Rush by a friend of mine who was also in the percussion section and played drumset, so I went online and downloaded some Rush songs from the likes of Napster and began to listen to those songs with a deeper ear towards their rhythms, how Neil intricately evolved his grooves and fills in his songs, how they wrote rhythms in odd times. As I was self-teaching, I began to tackle the likes of "La Villa Strangiato", "YYZ", "Cygnus X-1 Prologue", "Xanadu" and "Jacob's Ladder". By then, I was HOOKED on interesting and complex rhythms. It was the foothold I needed before diving deeper into the world of progressive music, but it was an important one, and it came at a very formative time for me, musically speaking. Until then, I had only listened to mostly radio hits on rock stations, and the odd bit of techno stuff (I blame Toonami and Fat Boy Slim, as well as Daft Punk), and rhythmically speaking, there wasn't a lot of variety there. Learning drums and listening to Rush at the same time set me on a path that I would never look back on, and I'm glad I've kept going forward!

-Marc.

Rush is obvious experts in this field. I'm a huge pushover for fusion and I think this is one element of that. Genesis is another, which I suppose explains why I like them so much...Post Gabriel anyway.