"Supergroup stigma?"

[Kyo]

I would have to say that there is no player today who sounds more like John Entwistle than Billy Sheehan and I'm surprised he wasn't contacted by The Who for the tour they did a few years ago. Billy and Tony Mac go back a ways so I would say that had a lot to do with the line up as it was. As far as Winery Dogs and SOA , that does seem to indicate some sort of partnership or something. But I would say that even Old Man Bill is more technically able than most.

You misunderstood me. I didn't say he was a strange pick for each of these. You can definitely make the case that he was a good one for some of them. My point was: Just not really *all* of them.

[max_security]

I would have to say that there is no player today who sounds more like John Entwistle than Billy Sheehan and I'm surprised he wasn't contacted by The Who for the tour they did a few years ago. Billy and Tony Mac go back a ways so I would say that had a lot to do with the line up as it was. As far as Winery Dogs and SOA , that does seem to indicate some sort of partnership or something. But I would say that even Old Man Bill is more technically able than most.

You misunderstood me. I didn't say he was a strange pick for each of these. You can definitely make the case that he was a good for some of them. My point was: Just not really *all* of them.

Nah it's cool man I get it. Everyone has their favorites and Billy Sheehan is mine , the guy from Talas 1980's Billy Sheehan. The guy can flat out play anything though , he can't write it but whatever someone needs him to play he does so with authority. But yeah the Winery Dogs should be MP joining Mr. Big or something like that. Edit : and SOA their are probably other guys who fit better.

[Orbert]

If four well-known Jazz guys decide they want to get together and make an album, they just put all four names on the cover and put it out there.  If you're a fan of any of them, you'll hear about it and check it out.

If four Rock guys get together, it's almost a given that they'll come up with a band name and promote it that way.

I was thinking about this the other day while listening to some Levin Minnemann Rudess.  Great stuff.  I tried to think of other, similar bands, and thought of Bozzio Levin Stevens.  Ha ha, Tony Levin in both bands!  But Tony has played with like 95% of everybody in the world, so no real surprise.

But in each of these projects, there's a lot of focus on the playing, in a way it's focused more on the individuals than the ensemble, maybe because it's all instrumental.  More of a "Jazz attitude" to it?

[Stadler]

If four well-known Jazz guys decide they want to get together and make an album, they just put all four names on the cover and put it out there.  If you're a fan of any of them, you'll hear about it and check it out.

If four Rock guys get together, it's almost a given that they'll come up with a band name and promote it that way.

I was thinking about this the other day while listening to some Levin Minnemann Rudess.  Great stuff.  I tried to think of other, similar bands, and thought of Bozzio Levin Stevens.  Ha ha, Tony Levin in both bands!  But Tony has played with like 95% of everybody in the world, so no real surprise.

But in each of these projects, there's a lot of focus on the playing, in a way it's focused more on the individuals than the ensemble, maybe because it's all instrumental.  More of a "Jazz attitude" to it?

Are they really comparable?   (Honest question, since I've never heard LMR).  I really like BLS, so that might influence my decision...

[The Walrus]

I've never heard BLS, but Stadler, you should totally check out LMR... there are some tracks that I just adore. Plus, the second album is called 'From The Law Offices Of LMR' - they're all dressed in suits on the front and some titles are lawyer-y in a funny way They're finally on Spotify, dunno about YouTube, but you should totally check out the songs 'Lakeshore Lights,' 'Marcopolis,' and 'Mew' from the debut record. Think Liquid Tension Experiment, but more Rudess-y. IMO it's way more enjoyable than LTE.

[KevShmev]

I liked the first LMR album, and it definitely had a few killer tunes, but the lack of a regular guitar player was a detriment.  Minnemann does a good job all things considered, but when you have killer drums, killer bass, killer keys and merely good guitar, the balance is way off. 

[Orbert]

I'm a keyboard guy myself, so it never bothered me that the guitarist was "just okay" but I see what you mean.  Actually I was wondering if that was guitar or Jordan with a patch that sounds exactly like a guitar.

[Architeuthis]

I can't help but remember the supergroup called DAMNOCRACY.  Featuring Sebastian Bach, Ted Nugent, Scott Ian,  Evan Seinfeld, and Jason Bonham.  That didn't last long..   

[Kwyjibo]

If four well-known Jazz guys decide they want to get together and make an album, they just put all four names on the cover and put it out there.  If you're a fan of any of them, you'll hear about it and check it out.

If four Rock guys get together, it's almost a given that they'll come up with a band name and promote it that way.

I was thinking about this the other day while listening to some Levin Minnemann Rudess.  Great stuff.  I tried to think of other, similar bands, and thought of Bozzio Levin Stevens.  Ha ha, Tony Levin in both bands!  But Tony has played with like 95% of everybody in the world, so no real surprise.

But in each of these projects, there's a lot of focus on the playing, in a way it's focused more on the individuals than the ensemble, maybe because it's all instrumental.  More of a "Jazz attitude" to it?

At least that Bozzio Levin Stevens one has a strong "jazz attitude", if I remember correctly they just met and jammed in the studio with no pre-written material, so it's very improvisational.

[Orbert]

I didn't know that.  I actually had the second album first (Black Light Syndrome) and liked it, and didn't realize until after that that it was the second album, so I grabbed the self-titled later.  A lot of it does sound improvised, or at least something that was originally improvised and later worked into something a little more structured.  I found the contrast between the two rather interesting, but I like them both.

[gzarruk]

I remember listening to Black Light Syndrome many years ago and not liking it at all. Might need to give the band another chance.

[Orbert]

I like the openness of a trio.  Each guy has a lot of space to work with, and there are so many ways to interact.  With a quartet or larger, you almost have to have more structure to things.  Two guitars, it's pretty much a given that there are things that have to be worked out.  Guitar and keyboards, you probably still have some space but things can get crowded.  With a lead instrument or vocalist, they'll tend to take the spotlight when they're there, and the rest of the time things feel empty without them.  This is all generally speaking, of course.

But with just three guys, all instrumental, so much more feels like it's riding on the virtuosity of the players and their command of their space within the group.  You put top-shelf players together in a band, I want to hear what they can do.

Black Light Syndrome is different from the first album in ways that I'm just now figuring out.  Maybe I'm fortunate to have discovered it first, since I liked it a lot and was able to get into the first album.  It might not have worked out the same the other way around.

[Kwyjibo]

Black Light Syndrome is the first record, Situation Dangerous the second one.
I like Black Light Syndrome a lot but it isn't your normal instrumental record. It's very lose because of the improvisational nature. It's a little bit like a jazz record with a rock band sound. And it's interesting what Steve Stevens can play outside of Billy Idol's band.
Haven't really listened to the second one, so I can't compare the two.

[gzarruk]

Speaking of supergroup trios, anyone listened to Niacin? It's Dennis Chambers, Billy Sheehan and a Hammond organ player. It was cool at first, but every track sounded the same to me.

[Kwyjibo]

Yes, I've got four of their records, I enjoy them all from time to time, Deepmis my favorite, but you're right, it can sound a little bit samey after a while.

[Orbert]

Black Light Syndrome is the first record, Situation Dangerous the second one.
I like Black Light Syndrome a lot but it isn't your normal instrumental record. It's very lose because of the improvisational nature. It's a little bit like a jazz record with a rock band sound. And it's interesting what Steve Stevens can play outside of Billy Idol's band.
Haven't really listened to the second one, so I can't compare the two.

You're right, of course.  I was completely confused.  I was thinking that the first album was self-titled and the second was Black Light Syndrome, which is bad because I do have both of them.  The only part I got right is that I did get the second album first and liked it, so I checked out the first album and liked that, too.

I only checked out BLS in the first place because I always thought Steve Stevens was the best part of pretty much any Billy Idol song, and with Terry Bozzio and Tony Levin, I was hoping for some great results, which I got.

[Peter Mc]

I think that there is a stigma but I tend to just judge it on the material. Unlike Stadler I do enjoy Revolution Saints despite the obvious agenda and them being hugely derivative of Journey. I can’t get new stuff from the actual Journey anymore so this fills a gap for me, classic Journeyesque AOR done really well.  Transatlantic is another obvious one that works.

I can sometimes have this suspicion that people who have their own successful bands or solo careers aren’t going to give up their best stuff for a side group and that’s one of the reasons I’m not too bothered that Rev Saints don’t write their own stuff. Someone else writes it so Frontiers can have a Journey style band as Journey aren’t giving them anything. Transatlantic are a different thing purely because Neal is a freak with a seemingly endless amount of amazing music pouring out from him so I never think he’s holding back.

[Stadler]

I think that there is a stigma but I tend to just judge it on the material. Unlike Stadler I do enjoy Revolution Saints despite the obvious agenda and them being hugely derivative of Journey. I can’t get new stuff from the actual Journey anymore so this fills a gap for me, classic Journeyesque AOR done really well.  Transatlantic is another obvious one that works.

I can sometimes have this suspicion that people who have their own successful bands or solo careers aren’t going to give up their best stuff for a side group and that’s one of the reasons I’m not too bothered that Rev Saints don’t write their own stuff. Someone else writes it so Frontiers can have a Journey style band as Journey aren’t giving them anything. Transatlantic are a different thing purely because Neal is a freak with a seemingly endless amount of amazing music pouring out from him so I never think he’s holding back.

I might have to revisit that. 

[Peter Mc]

Some won’t like them as they are pretty much a carbon copy of Journey and not quite in the same class.  I’ll be honest though, if the current Journey line up had released the last two Revolution Saints albums, I’d have been pretty happy with them even as actual Journey albums, the first one especially, 2nd was a bit patchier.

[hefdaddy42]

My favorite recent "supergroup" (if that term even applies) is Nova Collective.  That shit slaps.  Prog jazz.  So tasty.

[gzarruk]

My favorite recent "supergroup" (if that term even applies) is Nova Collective.  That shit slaps.  Prog jazz.  So tasty.

Loved their album! Hope a 2nd is on the way.

[ytserush]

If four well-known Jazz guys decide they want to get together and make an album, they just put all four names on the cover and put it out there.  If you're a fan of any of them, you'll hear about it and check it out.

If four Rock guys get together, it's almost a given that they'll come up with a band name and promote it that way.

I was thinking about this the other day while listening to some Levin Minnemann Rudess.  Great stuff.  I tried to think of other, similar bands, and thought of Bozzio Levin Stevens.  Ha ha, Tony Levin in both bands!  But Tony has played with like 95% of everybody in the world, so no real surprise.

But in each of these projects, there's a lot of focus on the playing, in a way it's focused more on the individuals than the ensemble, maybe because it's all instrumental.  More of a "Jazz attitude" to it?

That stuff is definitely in my wheelhouse.  Of course my rule of thumb is that if Tony Levin is involved, I'm going to like it.  I generally treat Billy Sheehan the same way of course (except for Mr. Big.)

[ytserush]

If four well-known Jazz guys decide they want to get together and make an album, they just put all four names on the cover and put it out there.  If you're a fan of any of them, you'll hear about it and check it out.

If four Rock guys get together, it's almost a given that they'll come up with a band name and promote it that way.

I was thinking about this the other day while listening to some Levin Minnemann Rudess.  Great stuff.  I tried to think of other, similar bands, and thought of Bozzio Levin Stevens.  Ha ha, Tony Levin in both bands!  But Tony has played with like 95% of everybody in the world, so no real surprise.

But in each of these projects, there's a lot of focus on the playing, in a way it's focused more on the individuals than the ensemble, maybe because it's all instrumental.  More of a "Jazz attitude" to it?

Are they really comparable?   (Honest question, since I've never heard LMR).  I really like BLS, so that might influence my decision...

I don't think you'll like it. It's a bit more imrov than you might be comfortable with based on what you've said you dig.

[ytserush]

I liked the first LMR album, and it definitely had a few killer tunes, but the lack of a regular guitar player was a detriment.  Minnemann does a good job all things considered, but when you have killer drums, killer bass, killer keys and merely good guitar, the balance is way off.

I don't know. I really enjoy Marco's playing on both Levin, Minnemann and Rudess albums (He does a really good job on the half-dozen or so solo albums I have too) He just isn't very flashy most of the time.

[ytserush]

Black Light Syndrome is the first record, Situation Dangerous the second one.
I like Black Light Syndrome a lot but it isn't your normal instrumental record. It's very lose because of the improvisational nature. It's a little bit like a jazz record with a rock band sound. And it's interesting what Steve Stevens can play outside of Billy Idol's band.
Haven't really listened to the second one, so I can't compare the two.

I really like what he does outside of that band. Have a few solo albums and the two Black Light Syndrome albums. That Flemenco a Go Go album is really cool even though I stuck it in the jazz section. Had no idea the guy was that capable but I read a review way back when and took a chance on it.

[ytserush]

Speaking of supergroup trios, anyone listened to Niacin? It's Dennis Chambers, Billy Sheehan and a Hammond organ player. It was cool at first, but every track sounded the same to me.

I LOVE Those discs! Hammond B3!!!!!! (John Novello) Mostly listen to Blood, Sweat and Beers (the live album) but I've probably pulled out all of them within the last year. Really dig that stuff. Probably my favorite band that Billy Sheehan has ever been in.  I'll never forget the look on Billy's face after a Winery Dogs gig when he saw all of the Niacin booklets. I asked if he would just sign his favorite album but Billy being Billy he signed them all!

I was so blown away I forgot to ask him if the band was still active. Should probably look that up.

[Orbert]

Fun fact, Niacin is another name for Vitamin B3.  I listened to three albums of music featuring the Hammond B-3 and the connection still had to be pointed out to me.

[ytserush]

Fun fact, Niacin is another name for Vitamin B3.  I listened to three albums of music featuring the Hammond B-3 and the connection still had to be pointed out to me.

I knew that but I still didn't make the connection.

[Kwyjibo]

Fun fact, Niacin is another name for Vitamin B3.  I listened to three albums of music featuring the Hammond B-3 and the connection still had to be pointed out to me.

That was like the first thing mentioned in every review and group info I came across. 

[Stadler]

Anyone know where "Niacin" comes from?  Sounds like a drug, but Sheehan isn't known for that.   

[Max Kuehnau]

Anyone know where "Niacin" comes from?  Sounds like a drug, but Sheehan isn't known for that.

Niacin is Vitamin B3. (and their pianist uses a B3 as well, so there's your humourous bit)

[ytserush]

Fun fact, Niacin is another name for Vitamin B3.  I listened to three albums of music featuring the Hammond B-3 and the connection still had to be pointed out to me.

That was like the first thing mentioned in every review and group info I came across. 

I've never even seen a review on this band. Found one of the CD's in the used bin about 20 years ago, saw who was in the band and bought it without hearing a note. Based on that, I've been buying whenever I see one I don't have and have never been disappointed..

It looks like the band hasn't been active for at least 10 years. No idea why they aren't together anymore. Organik was the last album and that was released in 2006.

[Stadler]

Anyone know where "Niacin" comes from?  Sounds like a drug, but Sheehan isn't known for that.

Niacin is Vitamin B3. (and their pianist uses a B3 as well, so there's your humourous bit)

(Nah, I got it, boss; I was making a joke about ... ah, it wasn't that funny.)

[gzarruk]

Fun fact, Niacin is another name for Vitamin B3.  I listened to three albums of music featuring the Hammond B-3 and the connection still had to be pointed out to me.

That was like the first thing mentioned in every review and group info I came across. 

I've never even seen a review on this band. Found one of the CD's in the used bin about 20 years ago, saw who was in the band and bought it without hearing a note. Based on that, I've been buying whenever I see one I don't have and have never been disappointed..

It looks like the band hasn't been active for at least 10 years. No idea why they aren't together anymore. Organik was the last album and that was released in 2006.

They released an album, Krush, in 2013.

[ytserush]

Fun fact, Niacin is another name for Vitamin B3.  I listened to three albums of music featuring the Hammond B-3 and the connection still had to be pointed out to me.

That was like the first thing mentioned in every review and group info I came across. 

I've never even seen a review on this band. Found one of the CD's in the used bin about 20 years ago, saw who was in the band and bought it without hearing a note. Based on that, I've been buying whenever I see one I don't have and have never been disappointed..

It looks like the band hasn't been active for at least 10 years. No idea why they aren't together anymore. Organik was the last album and that was released in 2006.

They released an album, Krush, in 2013.

Thanks. Guess I need to track that one down.  How is it?