Author Topic: DT popularity  (Read 3869 times)

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Offline SwedishGoose

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Re: DT popularity
« Reply #70 on: November 30, 2019, 02:11:21 PM »


Now, not only are the setlists the same but the songs are the same. Home will be 12:52 long in Dallas, in Houston, and in Austin. Running two seconds longer would require some some of catastrophe. The only hope for seeing any sort of variation would be for LaBrie's voice to croak, or see him fall of the stage or something. That ain't worth the drive.

That is the drawback to playing with a click.  I am fine with them going with static (or mostly static) set lists, but playing to a click really does made it nearly impossible to be able to tell one show from the other musically speaking, JLB's vocals notwithstanding of course.

On the other hand, playing to a click makes it possible to have a much richer visual show. Lights and video syncing with the music.
Some of us really like a great visual show too.

Online TAC

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Re: DT popularity
« Reply #71 on: November 30, 2019, 03:13:35 PM »
Now, not only are the setlists the same but the songs are the same. Home will be 12:52 long in Dallas, in Houston, and in Austin. Running two seconds longer would require some some of catastrophe. The only hope for seeing any sort of variation would be for LaBrie's voice to croak, or see him fall of the stage or something. That ain't worth the drive.

 :lol


On the other hand, playing to a click makes it possible to have a much richer visual show. Lights and video syncing with the music.
Some of us really like a great visual show too.

I guess, but Dream Theater shows have morphed from a Rock Concert to a Performance. If I'm going to see a band play live, I want me a Rock Concert.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Stadler

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Re: DT popularity
« Reply #72 on: December 01, 2019, 10:35:27 AM »
Correct me if I'm wrong, here, but Iron Maiden doesn't play to a click track live, and yet... that's the most intense, well-oiled performance I've seen in a long time and it's ALSO a rock concert.  They also play an in-concrete, rock solid static setlist, and yet... it never felt programmed or rote or, well, static (and if you listen to boots and live clips, even Bruce's raps are fairly static with only minor variations from night to night, and yet it never feels stale. And while Maiden isn't quite the level of musicianship as DT, Nicko, Steve, Dave... no slouches, and some of the material is challenging to play at tempo.   I've seen DT three times, and I have to be convinced to see them again.  I've seen Maiden eight times and I'll have to be convinced NOT to see them at this point.

I'm not sure what the ultimate point is here, other than there are no rules and there are no one variables that control this. It's a package, a vibe. 

Online Fritzinger

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Re: DT popularity
« Reply #73 on: December 01, 2019, 10:52:43 AM »
Correct me if I'm wrong, here, but Iron Maiden doesn't play to a click track live, and yet... that's the most intense, well-oiled performance I've seen in a long time and it's ALSO a rock concert.  They also play an in-concrete, rock solid static setlist, and yet... it never felt programmed or rote or, well, static (and if you listen to boots and live clips, even Bruce's raps are fairly static with only minor variations from night to night, and yet it never feels stale. And while Maiden isn't quite the level of musicianship as DT, Nicko, Steve, Dave... no slouches, and some of the material is challenging to play at tempo.   I've seen DT three times, and I have to be convinced to see them again.  I've seen Maiden eight times and I'll have to be convinced NOT to see them at this point.

I'm not sure what the ultimate point is here, other than there are no rules and there are no one variables that control this. It's a package, a vibe.

You guys are going to kill me for this, but... I always found the live performances of Iron Maiden (I have only seen them on video) not very tight, but kinda all over the place and -I guess there are many Maiden fans here, but dare I say it- sloppy? Also, their arrangements sound overloaded to me because of the three guitars... That is part of the reason why I don't like Iron Maiden. Ok you may slay me now
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: DT popularity
« Reply #74 on: December 01, 2019, 10:58:57 AM »


Now, not only are the setlists the same but the songs are the same. Home will be 12:52 long in Dallas, in Houston, and in Austin. Running two seconds longer would require some some of catastrophe. The only hope for seeing any sort of variation would be for LaBrie's voice to croak, or see him fall of the stage or something. That ain't worth the drive.

That is the drawback to playing with a click.  I am fine with them going with static (or mostly static) set lists, but playing to a click really does made it nearly impossible to be able to tell one show from the other musically speaking, JLB's vocals notwithstanding of course.

On the other hand, playing to a click makes it possible to have a much richer visual show. Lights and video syncing with the music.
Some of us really like a great visual show too.

That can easily be done without playing to a click.  Rush did it for decades, and had arguably a more advanced light and video set-up than Dream Theater does.

Offline gzarruk

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Re: DT popularity
« Reply #75 on: December 01, 2019, 01:00:06 PM »
Steven Wilson plays with a click and I don't see anyone complaining...
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline El Barto

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Re: DT popularity
« Reply #76 on: December 01, 2019, 07:17:28 PM »


Now, not only are the setlists the same but the songs are the same. Home will be 12:52 long in Dallas, in Houston, and in Austin. Running two seconds longer would require some some of catastrophe. The only hope for seeing any sort of variation would be for LaBrie's voice to croak, or see him fall of the stage or something. That ain't worth the drive.

That is the drawback to playing with a click.  I am fine with them going with static (or mostly static) set lists, but playing to a click really does made it nearly impossible to be able to tell one show from the other musically speaking, JLB's vocals notwithstanding of course.

On the other hand, playing to a click makes it possible to have a much richer visual show. Lights and video syncing with the music.
Some of us really like a great visual show too.

That can easily be done without playing to a click.  Rush did it for decades, and had arguably a more advanced light and video set-up than Dream Theater does.
Nobody's ever put on a better stage and lighting display than Floyd in 94/95, and their lighting was run on the fly. Specifically so they could extend songs if they desired. If you don't need to sequence this, you damn sure don't need DT's show sequenced. Also, DT's lighting man was very good.



You guys are going to kill me for this, but... I always found the live performances of Iron Maiden (I have only seen them on video) not very tight, but kinda all over the place and -I guess there are many Maiden fans here, but dare I say it- sloppy? Also, their arrangements sound overloaded to me because of the three guitars... That is part of the reason why I don't like Iron Maiden. Ok you may slay me now
I wouldn't disagree with this at all. There's something to be said for the human element, though. Maiden puts on a rock concert. It looks like it. It sounds like it. It feels like it. Dream Theater puts on a presentation that honestly wouldn't be much different if it were on a movie screen. I'd rather see a live band like Maiden, warts and all, than the Chuck E. Cheese animatronic show that DT has become.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: DT popularity
« Reply #77 on: December 01, 2019, 07:26:18 PM »
Nobody's ever put on a better stage and lighting display than Floyd in 94/95, and their lighting was run on the fly. Specifically so they could extend songs if they desired. If you don't need to sequence this, you damn sure don't need DT's show sequenced. 

As someone who saw Pink Floyd in 1994, I approve of this post above. :tup :tup

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Re: DT popularity
« Reply #78 on: December 01, 2019, 09:49:16 PM »
Nobody's ever put on a better stage and lighting display than Floyd in 94/95, and their lighting was run on the fly. Specifically so they could extend songs if they desired. If you don't need to sequence this, you damn sure don't need DT's show sequenced. 

As someone who saw Pink Floyd in 1994, I approve of this post above. :tup :tup
I would think Pink Floyd music would be easier to put lights to (on the fly) without a click as their music is more straightforward and moves at slower pace.
 That being said, I wish DT would ditch the click and have more fun putting on a great show. The lights don't have to be perfect.  I would also say ditch the screens, but still have good lighting like on the IAWAB tour.
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: DT popularity
« Reply #79 on: December 01, 2019, 11:06:47 PM »
The lights don't have to be perfect. 

So true. Who gives a crap if the lights are or are not in perfect sync with the music throughout a 2 hour show by a band who prides themselves on their songwriting and musicianship?
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Re: DT popularity
« Reply #80 on: December 02, 2019, 01:49:55 AM »
The lights don't have to be perfect. 

So true. Who gives a crap if the lights are or are not in perfect sync with the music throughout a 2 hour show by a band who prides themselves on their songwriting and musicianship?
When I saw Iron Maiden almost three months ago,  I'm pretty sure they weren't playing to a click track yet their light show was fantastic!  They definitely pride themselves on song writing an musicianship. Same goes for BOSTON and YES,  they don't play to a click either..
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Online Fritzinger

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Re: DT popularity
« Reply #81 on: December 02, 2019, 02:54:57 AM »
To be fair, Yes could not play with an original speed click track these days, even if they wanted to.
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Online MirrorMask

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Re: DT popularity
« Reply #82 on: December 02, 2019, 03:19:39 AM »
Side question, how do those non-click light shows work? we know from DT's DVDs that Portnoy's drum tech stands behind him and knows the songs to the point that he swings for him the mic to sing his backing vocals. I assume it's the same concept for the light people, right? people knowing enough the songs to know precisely what's gonna happen and direct the lights accordingly...?
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Re: DT popularity
« Reply #83 on: December 02, 2019, 06:04:05 AM »
Precisely!   The lighting guy should know the songs just as well as the band and the sound technician to be worthy of having that job.  The sound guy and the lighting are pretty much members of the band..
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Offline Trav86

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Re: DT popularity
« Reply #84 on: December 02, 2019, 07:06:34 AM »
Yep. Back in the day, lights and sound guys for successful bands, would usually be with them for years. If they were good. The guy in charge of lights for Rush, all the way up until the final tour, had been with them since the 70s.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: DT popularity
« Reply #85 on: December 02, 2019, 07:51:58 AM »
Actually, there was a doc on... I think it was the Chaos In Motion DVD set where they talked about this exactly. And they had a guy that was doing the lights and backdrops, and he specifically said he had to know the setlist, know the cues and follow the band so that they could be in sync.   So even DT has done it before. 

Maiden, on the Live After Death and Maiden England DVDs had similar discussions. It CAN be done.  There's a great clip in the History of Maiden doc where Steve and Nicko are talking about a show in Sacramento that was so hot, Steve's "boots" (sneakers?) melted and his strings were too hot to play.  Nicko told the story about how there was a pool backstage, and during the interlude of Rime, he went and took a swim.   He got back just as Bruce was singing the "The curse it lives on in their eyes...." part but he was soaking wet and his foot was slipping on the bass drum pedal.  And he specifically said "that was all on me; that section could go on as long as we wanted, but the cue was that "dun-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du-du" drum fill, and I had to wait until my roadie came back with a towel" or something along those lines before he could play it. 

Offline Vmadera00

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Re: DT popularity
« Reply #86 on: December 02, 2019, 08:18:15 AM »
Maybe they play to a click to avoid this from happening

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiORe-dcjSI

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Re: DT popularity
« Reply #87 on: December 02, 2019, 10:17:46 AM »
Yep. Back in the day, lights and sound guys for successful bands, would usually be with them for years. If they were good. The guy in charge of lights for Rush, all the way up until the final tour, had been with them since the 70s.
That's right,  his name is Howard Ungerleider.  He did some amazing light shows for Rush over the years.  They even played to a click later in their career if I'm not mistaken. 
« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 10:46:22 AM by Architeuthis »
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Re: DT popularity
« Reply #88 on: December 02, 2019, 10:30:03 AM »
Actually, there was a doc on... I think it was the Chaos In Motion DVD set where they talked about this exactly. And they had a guy that was doing the lights and backdrops, and he specifically said he had to know the setlist, know the cues and follow the band so that they could be in sync.   So even DT has done it before. 


That was one of my favorite DT concerts ever. During the Progressive Nation tour in 2008, I saw them in Seattle. They stopped in the middle of the song " Take the Time" to wish James Labrie a happy birthday. Mike Portnoy threw a cake in his face with bright green icing.  James' face was part green for the rest of the show.  My friend that was with me captured it on video. If you go to YouTube and type in "James Labrie Birthday Cake" you can see it.  JP made a guitar mistake afterwards..lol!
 If they were playing to a click track, that funny incident would have never happened.  I also thought that was the best light show I've seen at a DT concert.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 01:17:51 PM by Architeuthis »
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Offline Trav86

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Re: DT popularity
« Reply #89 on: December 02, 2019, 12:57:15 PM »
Maybe they play to a click to avoid this from happening

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiORe-dcjSI

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Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: DT popularity
« Reply #90 on: December 02, 2019, 01:28:25 PM »
On the other hand, playing to a click makes it possible to have a much richer visual show. Lights and video syncing with the music.
Some of us really like a great visual show too.
I guess, but Dream Theater shows have morphed from a Rock Concert to a Performance. If I'm going to see a band play live, I want me a Rock Concert.
Amen!

Your post reminds me of when a friend of mine who does remastering of bootlegs once sent me an audio clip of a DT bootleg recording. He asked me what I thought of it. I listened to it, and the only strange thing about it was that I could hear JL singing the same lyrics, but not exactly at the same time, like somehow there was a strange echo or effect on his voice. My buddy explained to me that this clip was actually the same song from 2 separate shows that he synced up and combined into one file. Because they are playing to a click there was absolutely no discernible difference between any of the instrumentation whatsoever - the only variable was JL's singing. So yeah, what DT does now is certainly far more of a rigid performance, rather than a rock concert with room to breathe.
 
That can easily be done without playing to a click.  Rush did it for decades, and had arguably a more advanced light and video set-up than Dream Theater does.
Exactly.
 
 
Maybe they play to a click to avoid this from happening

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiORe-dcjSI
Actually, had they been playing to a click in that video, it would have caused more problems, not resolved them. Because JL came in much earlier than he was supposed to, the band was able to adjust and go with it on the fly. Had they stuck to the click, the band would've either been stuck to playing as they planned with JL looking stupid until they reached the correct point OR it would've been a challenge for MP having a click in his inner ear monitors playing differently than what the band was playing when they adjusted for JL's mistake.

In particular, with MM being the precise drumming machine that he is, there is far less need of a click track now to get "consistent" performances of each song. So all the click does is take away the human element that El Barto is talking about.
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

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Re: DT popularity
« Reply #91 on: December 02, 2019, 01:54:29 PM »
I even prefer studio recordings that are NOT done to a click.  The click just makes it easier for the engineer to edit tracks and do punch-ins and outs.  That way the band members don't have to redo the entire song if they flub up somewhere in the song.
 With modern digital recordings, I guess click tracks save a lot of time in the editing dept.
 Plus record companies want the releases to have perfect timing in the music for professionalism.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: DT popularity
« Reply #92 on: December 02, 2019, 02:13:50 PM »
I suppose there are advantages, but if Led Zeppelin played to a click track during their career - studio or live - they would be a footnote in rock history.  John Bonham's entire gig was that fluidity of tempo that he brought to the band. 

Offline gborland

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Re: DT popularity
« Reply #93 on: December 02, 2019, 04:27:16 PM »
Modern DT:
  • Posh all-seated concert halls and theatres
  • Click track
  • Fancy screens and lighting
  • Copy-and-paste shows from one night to the next

This is not what I signed up for back in '93. I want me a proper fucking rock show. You know, like, with atmosphere and spontaneity and stuff. Like the good old days: sweaty crowded venues, five guys and a few spotlights and awesome music and legendary performances. That is what rock music should be.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: DT popularity
« Reply #94 on: December 02, 2019, 04:46:19 PM »
When they opened for Maiden way back when I sat directly behind FOH. Great seats. I could kick my feet up. I had perfect sound. And I could watch DT's lighting guy. That dude was more entertaining than anybody on the stage other than MP. He worked his lighting console like JP played his guitar, and he knew every note of every song. He was banging his head, playing along with the music, and if a song went particularly well he'd pump his fist and shout "fuck yeah" when he was done. He was a DT fan with a dream job and he was very good at what he did. He was probably replaced by the Light-O-Matic 9000 when Portnoy left.

Interestingly, when Maiden came on their LD just had to hit the green start button at the beginning of every song. I suspect they had to be playing to a click for that.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: DT popularity
« Reply #95 on: December 02, 2019, 05:00:08 PM »
Well I'll be damned. Here's DT's LD explaining it. Looks like he does still maintain some control, specifically firing off drum hits, but the bulk of it with the complexity all runs off of timecode. Demonstrated when he can't adjust the faders because they're locked into the program.

Also, this was from the Dallas show. Everything behind that guy was Cram's domain. I think he was the only guy back there.  :lol  Good looking venue, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Yom0Yoie6Y
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Re: DT popularity
« Reply #96 on: December 02, 2019, 05:17:14 PM »
Modern DT:
  • Posh all-seated concert halls and theatres
  • Click track
  • Fancy screens and lighting
  • Copy-and-paste shows from one night to the next

This is not what I signed up for back in '93. I want me a proper fucking rock show. You know, like, with atmosphere and spontaneity and stuff. Like the good old days: sweaty crowded venues, five guys and a few spotlights and awesome music and legendary performances. That is what rock music should be.
I love the modern day lighting technology. With the LED's, the colors are so much more intense than before and way more energy efficient.  I can do without the screens though, with The Astonishing tour being an exception. Those were kind of cool.
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Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: DT popularity
« Reply #97 on: December 02, 2019, 09:39:35 PM »
On the other hand, playing to a click makes it possible to have a much richer visual show. Lights and video syncing with the music.
Some of us really like a great visual show too.

I guess, but Dream Theater shows have morphed from a Rock Concert to a Performance. If I'm going to see a band play live, I want me a Rock Concert.

Indeed. The hardcore fans go to see the band play. A casual fan or someone unfamiliar with them, I guarantee, will be blown away by the quality of the performance. No CD can capture the hugeness of their sound, and the songs hit better when you can nail them.

Instead, for reasons I don't think I'll ever understand, the focus is on the stage show. The Apotheosis of this was the Astonishing tour. When I saw this live, the crowd was never able to lock in right. A lot of sitting through the first act. Then still sitting during the second. Then The Path That Divides starts. The song is a banger. The crowd stands up and rocks out with the song. Then the NOMACS track comes on, crowd sits. Then The Walking Shadow kicks in with the tom hits and guitar leads, but the crowd's already back in their seats.

Distance Over Time was the right album to put out in response, but they relegated it to side-show status on its own tour by featuring Scenes from a Memory. I know there is a certain percentage of fans that will never think anything else they do is as good. During the pre-show montage on the DT12 tour, it was the only album that got an actual cheer.

But this is not the way forward! What person that isn't already a hardcore fan would be interested in a walk down memory lane? This is a business. The asses need to be put into the seats! Going off Youtube video views for the album playlist, At Wit's End is the second most viewed track after Barstool Warrior. And, it's a new song, meaning you can show casual fans and potential new listeners that you're still putting out good material. How was this not a featured song in the first North American leg!?

I might be off-base because of the bubble I'm in, but even though metal is supposedly passe it seems to still have a large and passionate fanbase. Steven Wilson's popularity proves that people still like nerdy prog music. Musicians being good at their instruments is essentially a genre on Youtube. Even people who don't like Dream Theater at least respect them. There's no reason their attendance figures should be decreasing. Put out high quality new material. Play shows that feature your ability to blow the crowd's balls off. Profit.

One of the saddest things I read here was that they pulled Don't Look Past Me from the setlist because people were using it as a bathroom break. This is the peril of over-catering to the hardcore fan who just wants to hear exactly what they like. If you pull in a broader crowd of people who are there to enjoy seeing you play and not to have their specific tastes indulged, you won't have this problem.

The irony of all this is I still loved the show they played in Philly last spring, because they're just so good. But I also know how much they're still leaving on the table.
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Offline Herrick

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Re: DT popularity
« Reply #98 on: December 02, 2019, 10:35:53 PM »
They haven't had a hit on the radio since PMU.  It's been nearly three decades since they've had decent radio exposure.   It's too bad their record labels haven't had enough clout to get them on mainstream rock radio. They have plenty of radio friendly songs throughout their catalogue, even on Distance Over Time.

Does radio even matter anymore? I haven't listened to the radio since I could plug my portable CD player into the tape deck of my early 2000s Chevy Malibu. My step kids were born in the late 1990s and they've never owned a radio.
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Re: DT popularity
« Reply #99 on: December 03, 2019, 01:45:08 AM »
They haven't had a hit on the radio since PMU.  It's been nearly three decades since they've had decent radio exposure.   It's too bad their record labels haven't had enough clout to get them on mainstream rock radio. They have plenty of radio friendly songs throughout their catalogue, even on Distance Over Time.

Does radio even matter anymore? I haven't listened to the radio since I could plug my portable CD player into the tape deck of my early 2000s Chevy Malibu. My step kids were born in the late 1990s and they've never owned a radio.
Believe me,  a lot of people still listen to the radio. I notice it everywhere I go. The band's that do get radio exposure have more album sales and bigger turnouts to their shows.  Avenged Sevenfold, Godsmack, Ghost, and Volbeat come to mind along with many others.   Halestorm is also picking up momentum at their live shows. Why??  Because these bands are getting played all over on hard rock radio.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2019, 01:53:11 AM by Architeuthis »
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Offline MoraWintersoul

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Re: DT popularity
« Reply #100 on: December 03, 2019, 06:02:22 AM »
The irony of all this is I still loved the show they played in Philly last spring, because they're just so good. But I also know how much they're still leaving on the table.
Yeah, this is really the key of it all. They're doing great and they haven't been relegated to nostalgia act status. But they could be doing even more.

Quote
Don't try to BS her about Kevin Moore facts, she will obscure quote you in the face.
You consistently make so much sense, and express yourself so eloquently, that I've decided you're basically a female version of robwebster.

Offline nikatapi

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Re: DT popularity
« Reply #101 on: December 03, 2019, 06:45:07 AM »
Modern DT:
  • Posh all-seated concert halls and theatres
  • Click track
  • Fancy screens and lighting
  • Copy-and-paste shows from one night to the next


Yeah in a way it seems more business than it ever felt to me.

Offline gzarruk

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Re: DT popularity
« Reply #102 on: December 03, 2019, 07:01:47 AM »
Like somebody once said, "nobody hates DT more than DT fans".
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Stadler

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Re: DT popularity
« Reply #103 on: December 03, 2019, 10:14:40 AM »
I think this has already been said here, but I'll say it again:  why not both?   They are doing multiple dates in a particular geography; I live in northern Connecticut, and I could have reasonably seen I think 5 shows. 

Why not do a Maiden?   D/T comes out, feature the fuck out of it.   Fill out the set with hits and a nugget or two.  Next leg, do the legacy thing, playing an album or a period of their career.   Since the reunion, in 1999, Maiden has alternated EVERY TOUR: album/legacy, album/legacy.   Why not?  You get the sort of "benefit" of a rotating setlist without actually rotating a setlist.  They could still do their precision performance, to the click, but offer enough to attract the majority of the portions of their audience.   The only ones that wouldn't have SOMETHING to latch onto would be the #MPWarriors, for whom DT died on September 8, 2010 (I only know the date because it's close to my birthday and I had just moved away from my family at that time).  It would get my fat ass to a show, for sure. 

Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: DT popularity
« Reply #104 on: December 03, 2019, 01:25:02 PM »
One of the saddest things I read here was that they pulled Don't Look Past Me from the setlist because people were using it as a bathroom break. This is the peril of over-catering to the hardcore fan who just wants to hear exactly what they like. If you pull in a broader crowd of people who are there to enjoy seeing you play and not to have their specific tastes indulged, you won't have this problem.
Well, given that the vast majority of the show was catering to the average joe fan, what's wrong with throwing a bone or two to the diehards? I mean the setlist featured TDEN, AIA, BAI, all of IaW and ACoS - all of which are well known by the casual fan and made up over 80% of the show (that is, the actual time the band performed). And the 2 songs that were swapped out so that DLPM and TLF could be added were from their most divisive album that had just been featured on the previous tour - likely songs that plenty of fans used as bathroom break time when they were in the set. So I'm failing to see what's wrong with including something that might go over the heads of the general fan, but that the diehards loved.
 
 
Like somebody once said, "nobody hates DT more than DT fans".
That might be true in some select cases, but that's not true here and in many other situations. We know what they are capable of doing as is evident from the past. But some of the things they are doing now pale in comparison, and so we express our disappointment. I fail to see how that is DT fans hating DT.
 
 
Why not do a Maiden?   D/T comes out, feature the fuck out of it.   Fill out the set with hits and a nugget or two.  Next leg, do the legacy thing, playing an album or a period of their career.
Agreed. I said as much in this post:
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=54509.msg2605343#msg2605343
« Last Edit: December 03, 2019, 01:37:03 PM by Setlist Scotty »
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.