DT popularity

[jadiggerdt]

Perhaps a difficult question. Is DT's popularity worldwide on a downward curve. Of course there are several good new progmetal bands that they have to compete against, but it seems like it :-
Surprisingly few tickets sold although it is a bit early on the Europe tour which starts in jan 2020

[SwedishGoose]

I'm not sure about that but a factor to consider is the steep ticket prices.

They used to go for under 500 SEK but the I&W & beyond tickets cost 800 SEK and these tickets now go for 1055 SEK.

Was at another concert this weekend that only cost me 280 SEK.

Even I hesitated for a few seconds when I saw the price 1055 SEK but bought a couple anyway. I'm sure quite a few more tickets had been sold if they cost the same as Opeth the day before at the same venue (Cirkus in Stockholm) which was 530 SEK.

[krands85]

I'm not sure about that but a factor to consider is the steep ticket prices.

They used to go for under 500 SEK but the I&W & beyond tickets cost 800 SEK and these tickets now go for 1055 SEK.

Was at another concert this weekend that only cost me 280 SEK.

Even I hesitated for a few seconds when I saw the price 1055 SEK but bought a couple anyway. I'm sure quite a few more tickets had been sold if they cost the same as Opeth the day before at the same venue (Cirkus in Stockholm) which was 530 SEK.

Good point. Since I went to my first DT gig in 2009, I wouldn't even contemplate NOT going to see them when they came to the UK (I also travelled to Manchester and London on my own on the tours where they didn't visit Scotland). But this time, I'm giving them a miss, even though they're playing just over an hour away. The setlist is also a contributing factor for me, but cost is the main one.

[Setlist Scotty]

I do think it's possible that their popularity is a little on the downswing. Certainly the ticket prices and setlist, as mentioned above, could be a factor in this particular tour not being a huge seller. But this goes back even before this last tour. I can't remember which year it was - I think 2014 or 2015 - but a friend from Europe was telling me how Steven Wilson was headlining over DT at a festival. Somehow I don't think Steven Wilson has gained much more popularity than when Porcupine Tree still existed, although I might be wrong. And of course, it could just be the promoter doing that, but I would imagine that promoters have a pretty good pulse on popularity of different bands since that is a big part of their job.

Another thing would be to look at the size of the venues DT is playing these days in comparison to the past - are they smaller than before? And even if they are the same or of similar capacity, are the venues being filled by the same number of fans as before? Again, that does not provide iron-clad proof that their popularity is dwindling, because on this most current tour through North America, it seems the attendance of shows on the second leg was not as high as on the first leg, similar to what happened in 2016. And some of that could be attributed to the shows being played in the same cities as on the first leg, or in cities nearby (within reasonable driving distance). With no significant changes to the setlist, many fans weren't motivated to see them a second time.

So yeah, it's hard to say for certain. But there is some evidence that their popularity might be shrinking. Only time will tell if that's really the case or not.

edit: This thread talks a bit about the attendance on the second leg of this current tour:
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=54349.0

[cramx3]

I do think it's possible that their popularity is a little on the downswing. Certainly the ticket prices and setlist, as mentioned above, could be a factor in this particular tour not being a huge seller. But this goes back even before this last tour. I can't remember which year it was - I think 2014 or 2015 - but a friend from Europe was telling me how Steven Wilson was headlining over DT at a festival. Somehow I don't think Steven Wilson has gained much more popularity than when Porcupine Tree still existed, although I might be wrong. And of course, it could just be the promoter doing that, but I would imagine that promoters have a pretty good pulse on popularity of different bands since that is a big part of their job.

Location has to do with it as well.  SW is probably bigger than DT in certain parts of Europe.  I'm thinking UK for sure.

To also compare with DT, they are playing a show in Brazil with Sabaton opening for them in a couple weeks.  I don't think any other location Sabaton would be opening for DT (they just finished an almost entirely sold out NA tour of similar venue size as DT) and about to do an arena tour of Europe next.  But this location might make sense (I actually don't know that, but I know DT has always toured SA and done well down there). 

Having said all that, DT's popularity probably is going down a bit as all of rock n roll has experienced.  DT themselves though seem to be relatively stable, seems they always play the same sized venues and have similar draws.   They went down a bit for the 2nd leg of TA, went back up for DT12, and now back down on the second leg of DT12.   

[KevShmev]

It seems like the band is playing a little bit bigger venues than before, which probably explains more empty seats in a lot of places (2,000 fans in a 3,000-seat venue will have more empty seats than 2,000 fans in a 2,500-seat venue), or maybe that was just the case here in St Louis where they played a venue a little bigger than any they had played here before in both 2016 and 2019.

[Samsara]

Perhaps a difficult question. Is DT's popularity worldwide on a downward curve. Of course there are several good new progmetal bands that they have to compete against, but it seems like it :-
Surprisingly few tickets sold although it is a bit early on the Europe tour which starts in jan 2020

Difficult to answer without some really detailed supporting information. But in a nutshell, they are more staying level, if I had to really choose. But popularity ebbs and flows, particularly for a band like Dream Theater. The competition nowadays is high, but it has always been high. DT is a niche band, in a niche genre, who needs crossover appeal to some mainstream hard rock and metal fans to really expand the fan base. For the most part, they have achieved that. And generally speaking, you've seen young fans at DT shows -- and not just kid that parents brought along. These are your late-teens, early-20-somethings going on their own and being fans.

That said, however, I really do think the band shot itself in the foot with The Astonishing. I'm not talking about the merits of the record artistically. I'm just talking about how polarizing it was. On one hand, you applaud DT for sticking to it, and performing it in its entirety. Relevant bands support their new music. On the other hand, it was a stretch for those more casual fans (a group I consider myself a part of, even though I've been a fan since the mid-90s), because the album's eclectic nature really soured some people.

Using myself as an example, after buying The Astonishing, trying hard to get into it, and ultimately just not liking it, I passed on seeing the tour (which passed through my area twice). The record, if we're being honest, was this era's Falling Into Infinity -- it has its fans, but many do not like it. And so DT played "recovery" by doing the I&W anniversary tour. And now, the DoT/SFAM tour does the same thing -- pairing new stuff, but having a classic record to bring those mainstream people into the fold.

For me personally, I love DOT, so I would have gone regardless, but I wouldn't underestimate the fans that would not have gone to see DT had SFAM not been played. It's a selling point, and a smart one, given what happened with The Astonishing.

I think Dream Theater has rebounded from The Astonishing (again, not talking about the merits of it artistically, just in terms of its impact on the fan base) quite well, but I don't think the band is "on the rise." They are treading water successfully, as they generally always do, with some good will from a well received Distance Over Time album. The venues have varied, but for the most part, they are slightly bigger, which is a good sign. But I just don't see them continuing to add fans by any sort of wide margin. They're staying afloat

Again, as always, just my opinion.

[bill1971]

For me it was the ticket prices and setlist. Distance over Time is in my top 3 DT albums, so it has nothing to do with popularity. Also if they played all of Awake OR Distance over Time I would have gone. I've seen SFAM live before.

[pg1067]

The first two DT shows I saw were at tiny clubs that probably had a capacity of only a couple hundred each.  I then saw them at venues with the following capacities:

2/12/93 - 1,500
6/3/93 -  2,651
12/8/94 - 550-972 (?)
9/19/04 - 6,189 (opening for Yes)
3/9/06 - 1,700
7/27/07 - 6,189 (w/ 2 opening bands)
5/2/08 - 6,189 (Prog Nation 2008)
8/29/09 - 5,870 (Prog Nation 2009)
6/19/10 - 10,900 (opening for Iron Maiden) (the capacity is only reserved seats, and the venue also has another 54,000 unreserved "seats" on the law at the back of the venue)
9/25/11 - 7,100
12/2/11 - 1,700
4/19/14 - 2,000
10/26/17 - 1,850
3/22/19 - 1,850

Needless to say, I don't remember how full every show was, but I know a couple of the 5,000+ venues were not close to capacity for the headlining slots (even the Prog Nation shows).  The 1,500-2,500 seat venue seems to be about right.

As I said in the tour thread, I didn't go to the second leg of the DOT tour because of the venue location, the night of the week and the set list.  That being said, I'm not sure there's any active band for whom I'd drive out to Riverside on a Monday night.

[gborland]

Steven Wilson is massively more popular now than he ever was in the Porcupine Tree days.

DT's popularity is on a steady decline. In terms of crowd-pulling ability, they peaked around 2008-2011. The declining attendances seem to directly correlate to insane ticket prices and static setlists.

[cramx3]

I know ticket prices vary, and it seemed like DT's prices were generally going up, but last winter I scored a ticket for the NJ show for like $35 after fees at through livenation (aka I didn't get a resale ticket under face value or anything, this was face value).  I forget exactly, but it was the cheapest ticket I can remember buying for an evening with DT show. 

[Samsara]

Steven Wilson is massively more popular now than he ever was in the Porcupine Tree days.

The thing is, he put PT to bed just as this wave of popularity started to rise. Had PT continued, that band would have been absolutely MASSIVE. I saw PT on a one-off, in San Francisco, with Karnivool opening, on The Incident tour. They played The Warfield, which seats 2,800. The largest venue PT had ever played in the Bay Area. The tours before that were in 800 and 1000 clubs. So my argument would be - Steven Wilson saw the popularity, and realized he wrote a lot of the songs, and then shut down PT to reap the benefits of PT's success as a solo artist.

It has worked, generally, but SW has never again played The Warfield as a solo act. He's back in the 800-capacity clubs. Still sold out, but clubs. That's just here in the Bay Area though. Not sure about the rest of the U.S. or the rest of the world

[cramx3]

Steven Wilson is massively more popular now than he ever was in the Porcupine Tree days.

The thing is, he put PT to bed just as this wave of popularity started to rise. Had PT continued, that band would have been absolutely MASSIVE. I saw PT on a one-off, in San Francisco, with Karnivool opening, on The Incident tour. They played The Warfield, which seats 2,800. The largest venue PT had ever played in the Bay Area. The tours before that were in 800 and 1000 clubs. So my argument would be - Steven Wilson saw the popularity, and realized he wrote a lot of the songs, and then shut down PT to reap the benefits of PT's success as a solo artist.

It has worked, generally, but SW has never again played The Warfield as a solo act. He's back in the 800-capacity clubs. Still sold out, but clubs. That's just here in the Bay Area though. Not sure about the rest of the U.S. or the rest of the world

Saw him twice, in Denver and NJ, and he played about 2k capacity venues.  Denver was packed, NJ was half empty, but he also played a few shows close to that NJ show before and after that one.  He's definitely got a solid following, maybe a bit less than DT here in the states, but he's doing an arena europe tour next.  Not sure how that's selling, but he's at least trying to up the game in Europe.

[Trav86]

I think they’re popularity is declining a little now. Unless you’re a band like Metallica or Rush, that’s only natural at this point. They were slowly building back up from Scenes through BCSL. I actually think the ADTOE/DT era was their most popular. They were doing well in the charts, they had a Grammy nomination, they seemed to be playing bigger venues. Tons of exposure online and in interviews. I really think the drummer documentary had a lot to do with it. I saw a lot people online discussing them that you normally wouldn’t see. They had gone outside the DT/Prog Metal bubble. Hell, they had a concert video played in movie theaters! I mean. Fuck! Lol. What Samsara said is probably right. The Astonishing killed some of that. And when I saw they were doing a  SFAM anniversary show, I thought they were either still trying to recover, or worried.

[Architeuthis]

They haven't had a hit on the radio since PMU.  It's been nearly three decades since they've had decent radio exposure.   It's too bad their record labels haven't had enough clout to get them on mainstream rock radio. They have plenty of radio friendly songs throughout their catalogue, even on Distance Over Time.
  Also their promoters need to get them to different cities. As someone said above,  the second leg of this tour in the U.S. hit a lot of the same cities especially the west coast.  They've skipped the Pacific Northwest for the last three tours now so people may be forgetting about them in those areas, or moving on from them.   It's like fishing, you got to keep tension on the line if you don't want to lose your catch.  Same thing with a fanbase..

[Volante99]

They’ve been playing in the same venues in Minneapolis/St Paul for 15-20 years now, so it appears they haven’t really lost any steam up here in the North country. The one time they played a smaller venue (Along for the Ride) it was because their usual spots were booked, and that show sold out within days, if I remember correctly.

Playing in a 2000 seat venue once every 2.5-3 years seems to be perfect for them in this market.

[MirrorMask]

I started to see them in 1999 in Italy and in these 20 years they've always played the same venue. The one that Iron Maiden sell out in a few days. Sometimes it was packed and sometimes there was more room, but they've always played there with the odd exception (festivals, a theatre for The Astonishing).

So I'd say at least in Italy they've always been in the general popularity of the big ones, the acts that get the biggest available arena in Milan.

[jadiggerdt]

I think the average of the concerts will be around 4000 spectators at the European Tour 2020.

[Max Kuehnau]

I started to see them in 1999 in Italy and in these 20 years they've always played the same venue. The one that Iron Maiden sell out in a few days. Sometimes it was packed and sometimes there was more room, but they've always played there with the odd exception (festivals, a theatre for The Astonishing).

So I'd say at least in Italy they've always been in the general popularity of the big ones, the acts that get the biggest available arena in Milan.

as they are in Germany (largely anyway)

[Trav86]

Yeah, I’m sure their popularity in Europe and probably Asia hasn’t waned the way it perhaps has in the U.S.  They seem to be playing smaller and smaller venues in Dallas. But they’re are also new venues opening around here all of the time. So...that may have something to do with it.  This past year DT played a venue of similar size that The Neal Morse Band had played a couple of months earlier. That surprised me.

[cramx3]

Yeah, I’m sure their popularity in Europe and probably Asia hasn’t waned the way it perhaps has in the U.S.  They seem to be playing smaller and smaller venues in Dallas. But they’re are also new venues opening around here all of the time. So...that may have something to do with it.  This past year DT played a venue of similar size that The Neal Morse Band had played a couple of months earlier. That surprised me.

I went to the Dallas show at the end of the I&W&B tour, it wasn't full at all but the venue was much bigger than usual.  Apparently its 4k capacity, although the outer seats were mostly empty.

[Dublagent66]

Steven Wilson is massively more popular now than he ever was in the Porcupine Tree days.

DT's popularity is on a steady decline. In terms of crowd-pulling ability, they peaked around 2008-2011. The declining attendances seem to directly correlate to insane ticket prices and static setlists.

Not only that, but MP leaving and the release of TA following DT12 didn't do them any favors in the popularity dept either.

[nikatapi]

Static setlists, the Astonishing and skyrocketing prices are definitely to blame.
The fact that they played I&W and SFAM anniversary shows on two consecutive tours speaks volumes about their desire to pull the attendance back up (and maybe justify the expensive tickets).

[Trav86]

Yeah, I’m sure their popularity in Europe and probably Asia hasn’t waned the way it perhaps has in the U.S.  They seem to be playing smaller and smaller venues in Dallas. But they’re are also new venues opening around here all of the time. So...that may have something to do with it.  This past year DT played a venue of similar size that The Neal Morse Band had played a couple of months earlier. That surprised me.

I went to the Dallas show at the end of the I&W&B tour, it wasn't full at all but the venue was much bigger than usual.  Apparently its 4k capacity, although the outer seats were mostly empty.

Yep, and when they came this year for the DOT show, they played The Bomb Factory over in the Deep Ellum area. It’s smaller. Probably a 2-3k seater. Before the Astonishing they played Verizon Theatre. A 6K+ seater.

[El Barto]

Yeah, I’m sure their popularity in Europe and probably Asia hasn’t waned the way it perhaps has in the U.S.  They seem to be playing smaller and smaller venues in Dallas. But they’re are also new venues opening around here all of the time. So...that may have something to do with it.  This past year DT played a venue of similar size that The Neal Morse Band had played a couple of months earlier. That surprised me.

I went to the Dallas show at the end of the I&W&B tour, it wasn't full at all but the venue was much bigger than usual.  Apparently its 4k capacity, although the outer seats were mostly empty.

Yeah, you were all alone up there. 

Yeah, I’m sure their popularity in Europe and probably Asia hasn’t waned the way it perhaps has in the U.S.  They seem to be playing smaller and smaller venues in Dallas. But they’re are also new venues opening around here all of the time. So...that may have something to do with it.  This past year DT played a venue of similar size that The Neal Morse Band had played a couple of months earlier. That surprised me.

I went to the Dallas show at the end of the I&W&B tour, it wasn't full at all but the venue was much bigger than usual.  Apparently its 4k capacity, although the outer seats were mostly empty.

Yep, and when they came this year for the DOT show, they played The Bomb Factory over in the Deep Ellum area. It’s smaller. Probably a 2-3k seater. Before the Astonishing they played Verizon Theatre. A 6K+ seater.

The Bomb Factor in that configuration was 1200 (normally it's unseated) and they sold it out. That's a pretty good turnout for them. Their previous MO had been to play venues far too big for them in smaller configurations. The Pavilion was either 2500 or 4k, depending on the configuration (I don't recall if the side sections were open or not). Nextstage was their venue of choice for a very long time, and that's up to 5500. I believe they played a 1500 seat configuration, and I never saw them fill that place. Before that it was the beloved Bronco Bowl, which was 3500. During all of this time they'd only sell about 1k-1200 tickets for these places.

In any case, the Steven Wilson comparison is interesting, because I think it represents the problem. SW is doing new and exciting things. DT is stagnant. We've all seen it before (and some of us think it used to be far better). Even if the new music is good it's not anything new. They're simply not particularly progressive anymore. What I'm seeing is that people who go to see DT now do so because they can, but they're not hugely excited about it. Pricing will certainly hurt that. SW is drawing in the oldschool prog fans that lost interest in DT 15 years ago. Despite them all being ostensibly in the prog category, there are a ton of people who will turn out to see the Dreggs, or Crimson, or SW, that don't give a shit about DT anymore, if they ever did.

[Addy]

During the last decade, DT frequently played in Spodek, Katowice when visiting Poland - 2011, 2014 and 2017. The Hall's capacity is 11,5k, though only half of the seats are available when the stage and other show infrastructure is setup. In 2011 I bought a ticket for 130 PLN (about 30 EUR), the hall was almost full, both seated and standing areas. It was pretty much the same in 2014. For the IW&B tour, when Live Nation took over organizing the gig, prices went up by over 100% and tickets weren't selling that good. They tried to manage by offering special discounts the closer it got to the show. Ultimately, they've set up seats in front of the stage just to make the place look like it's full. But the attendance was nowhere near 2011 or 2014.
In the meantime, they've played a couple of other places. In 2012 in Poznan, during the 2nd leg of ADTOE tour, the attendance was still great. In 2014 they've played in Gdansk just a few months after Katowice show. This one was ok, though the venue was much smaller.
There are people who won't attend the 2nd leg to see the same show, so yeah, some changes to the setlists might help. But I think the outrageous price increase is the main reason for attendance getting lower. An equivalent of 30-40 EUR was what most people could afford, but having to pay 70-80 EUR in a country where the average wage is 700 EUR - more and more people pass.
In the meantime, the tickets for Devin's Empath Tour go for 25 EUR, so there you have it.

[Architeuthis]

In the meantime, the tickets for Devin's Empath Tour go for 25 EUR, so there you have it.

I just saw The Who in Seattle less than a month ago. I got tickets at the venue box office for $40 each.  That's the way it should be.

[Anguyen92]

In the meantime, the tickets for Devin's Empath Tour go for 25 EUR, so there you have it.

I just saw The Who in Seattle less than a month ago. I got tickets at the venue box office for $40 each.  That's the way it should be.

I got a ticket for The Who on Groupon for $27.00 in LA, last month.  Good show.  Best show I have ever seen where the main guys are in their mid-70s.  I think I can safely say that, unless I somehow end up seeing Paul McCartney.

As for Steven Wilson, I'm looking at setlist.fm and it looks like when Porcupine Tree came to SoCal, they were playing venues like the City National Grove of Anaheim, Club Nokia, the old LA House of Blues, and The Wiltern, which generally holds around 1,000-2,000.  Steven Wilson, as a solo artist, has played these places as well.  England is a different story as Steven Wilson is doing two arena shows, next year, including the O2 Arena. The largest arena in London which can hold up to 20k and he's off the backs of selling out three shows at the Royal Albert Hall last year.  DT, in comparison, the biggest venue they ever played in London was Wembley Arena (around 13k people) and I think I've read that they closed certain sections of it, so DT wasn't played to full capacity even in the biggest venue they have played in London.

[jadiggerdt]

During the last decade, DT frequently played in Spodek, Katowice when visiting Poland - 2011, 2014 and 2017. The Hall's capacity is 11,5k, though only half of the seats are available when the stage and other show infrastructure is setup. In 2011 I bought a ticket for 130 PLN (about 30 EUR), the hall was almost full, both seated and standing areas. It was pretty much the same in 2014. For the IW&B tour, when Live Nation took over organizing the gig, prices went up by over 100% and tickets weren't selling that good. They tried to manage by offering special discounts the closer it got to the show. Ultimately, they've set up seats in front of the stage just to make the place look like it's full. But the attendance was nowhere near 2011 or 2014.
In the meantime, they've played a couple of other places. In 2012 in Poznan, during the 2nd leg of ADTOE tour, the attendance was still great. In 2014 they've played in Gdansk just a few months after Katowice show. This one was ok, though the venue was much smaller.
There are people who won't attend the 2nd leg to see the same show, so yeah, some changes to the setlists might help. But I think the outrageous price increase is the main reason for attendance getting lower. An equivalent of 30-40 EUR was what most people could afford, but having to pay 70-80 EUR in a country where the average wage is 700 EUR - more and more people pass.
In the meantime, the tickets for Devin's Empath Tour go for 25 EUR, so there you have it.

I know in 2009-2010 when DT was on top they almost filley Wembley Arena and Germany and Italia as well
eks: Oslo Spectrum Norway it was 6500, almost sold out.

Now max 4000

[SwedishGoose]

In Sweden they used to play at Hovet a 9000 capacity arena from 2002 to 2012. It always felt too big though.

In 2014 they played the 3.400 capacity Annexet

In 2016 they played the 1.644 capacity Circus (wonderful theater) twice

In 2017 they played the 3.500 capacity Fryshuset Arenan, but they also played in Malmö and Gothenburgh

In 2020 they will again play the wonderful Circus twice (1.644)

 

[MoraWintersoul]

I'm thinking they lose a little bit with every big change and gain a little bit less than they lose. Whoever was gone from the fandom when MP was gone likely isn't coming back, ditto for those who love prog but haven't cared about DT since ToT. People were probably gone from the TA tour temporarily, because they aren't interested in hearing that album. The "old guard" here isn't retiring from concerts any time soon it seems (you fogeys are awesome), but they might start skipping every other tour because of the rising ticket costs.

What might boost DT's tour attendance and enthusiasm is bringing the show to people who haven't seen it and would like to. The problem with that is that they aren't too interested in bridging the gap between their existing markets. I have been a fan for 10 years, and they never came closer to me than a 7-hour drive. There's probably a lot of people even in the USA who are in a similar boat, or have been for the past few years. Also, with MM, they're slowly leaning into the reputation of a band who stands there, reproduces what they did on the CD, thanks the audience and ends the show. albeit with a great production, sound, video, effects, etc. Prog fans, the ones who never miss a single tour of a great band, will always take some jamming over a perfect show.

[Stadler]

I'm thinking they lose a little bit with every big change and gain a little bit less than they lose. Whoever was gone from the fandom when MP was gone likely isn't coming back, ditto for those who love prog but haven't cared about DT since ToT. People were probably gone from the TA tour temporarily, because they aren't interested in hearing that album. The "old guard" here isn't retiring from concerts any time soon it seems (you fogeys are awesome), but they might start skipping every other tour because of the rising ticket costs.

What might boost DT's tour attendance and enthusiasm is bringing the show to people who haven't seen it and would like to. The problem with that is that they aren't too interested in bridging the gap between their existing markets. I have been a fan for 10 years, and they never came closer to me than a 7-hour drive. There's probably a lot of people even in the USA who are in a similar boat, or have been for the past few years. Also, with MM, they're slowly leaning into the reputation of a band who stands there, reproduces what they did on the CD, thanks the audience and ends the show. albeit with a great production, sound, video, effects, etc. Prog fans, the ones who never miss a single tour of a great band, will always take some jamming over a perfect show.

Let me start by saying that I am only talking about myself, I know it's my opinion, and I'm not suggesting that somehow I'm correct or all the facts support me.  It's an IMPRESSION I have.

That's me.   I'm somewhere in the 300's of concerts seen, I'm sort of on my bucket list leg of the trip, meaning, I'm driving two hours into New York to see things that I may never see again - Gene Simmons solo in a club; Shattered Fortress; Vivian Campbell in a 150 seat wedding banquet facility; Micheal Schenker with 19 singers all on stage.   I see about a show or two a month on average, so I'm trying not to drop $150 each show (I average around $50, if I  was to guess).  I understand that it's not necessarily indicative, but The Astonishing - which I put in the "might not see again", ala The Lamb by Genesis or Tales by Yes - was that way.   Play your shit, don't stray too much from the libretto, don't stand up, wave a lot, go home.

Based on things that some have said - Lethean for one - I'm likely going to go again and give it a fair try, if the planets align, but the gymnastics event that is some of MM's drumming isn't enough to get me to fork over the $$, when the alternative is two hours of Rick Wakeman playing piano and reminiscing, or seeing Flying Colors, well, fly (by the seat of their pants) in one of their relatively rare concert appearances.   Other than, say, The Musical Box (don't ask me why; it's just enjoyable for me, and I get to see them for like $35 in a theater that I have a membership in, so I can usually get first couple rows) and maybe Maiden, I don't have "every tour" bands anymore.

[IdoSC]

I can understand why honestly. They're doing a LOT of things wrong. They had a pretty good tour & fan engagement during the 2011 era where they rotated some songs, but in general since 2009 they're playing mostly the same songs every show during a tour or at least during a leg. The performance of the songs is not surprising anymore, fans used to talk about different performances of a specific solo on every show, now it's the same to a T. There hasn't been a DVD in almost 6 years. LaBrie, as much as I love him, used to do fun stuff with his vocal performances, now he struggles to deliver a passable performance even in new songs and he doesn't make the necessary vocal alterations (barring some songs from I&W) to deliver a tolerable performance.

Basically, no set surprises, no performance surprises, no engagement with fans through film/audio release from shows, no reason to prefer the vocal nor the instrumental version of a live song over the studio. Why would fans be interested in going to shows besides "Hey, let's see the guys play some songs again"?

[Setlist Scotty]

Everyone knows my stance on the static setlists that we've been seeing, and I do think that it is a part of the reason why the turn outs have been lower. But based on a lot of the comments in this thread, it's clear that the ticket prices are also playing a roll. They must be commanding a fairly high guarantee for each show, and I would imagine that's a big part of why ticket prices have been higher. But I also imagine that it's part of the reason why some parts of the world - for instance the northwest and southeast parts of the US - are neglected on the tour. It's interesting that the southeast has gotten much better representation on this tour, but that hasn't been the case in the past.

For this particular tour, I think one thing that they should have done differently was tour behind d/t and not to have celebrated the SFaM anniversary until the end of the year, when the album actually was released. Then once the anniversary hit, start focusing on that. They could've done the first leg of the North American tour as they did but with a setlist focused on d/t and other catalog songs. Do the European festival run of shows, but without all the bogus support bands at shows that weren't truly festivals - do full Evening With shows at those shows with the same or similar setlist as in the first NA leg. Then do tours through Asia/Oceania and South America somewhere between October and December, now with the setlist focused on SFaM (since they usually only do one tour through those territories on any given album cycle) and finally return to North America and Europe with the SFaM-centric setlist in early 2020, trying to hit more cities than they did on the first tours through those territories, including some of the secondary markets not visited the first time around.

Of course I'm armchair quarterbacking, but I think it makes far greater sense than the way they have done things on this tour. I'd be willing to bet they have more fans that would go to see them a second time if they would have gone this route, and even more if they would've brought back the rotating or at least alternating setlists (one song being alternated isn't enough, IMO).

[Volante99]

I don’t think static setlist have any effect on ticket sales.

DT has been touring ALOT. They’ve hit my small market area 3 times in 5 years. And I’m in a city that doesn’t get hit by every leg. Even as a super fan, that seems like a lot of shows. Add to that the increasing costs of tickets, they may be spreading themselves thin with the constant touring for the casual DT fan (if such a thing exists).