DT popularity

[SwedishGoose]

Believe me,  a lot of people still listen to the radio. I notice it everywhere I go. The band's that do get radio exposure have more album sales and bigger turnouts to their shows.  Avenged Sevenfold, Godsmack, Ghost, and Volbeat come to mind along with many others.   Halestorm is also picking up momentum at their live shows. Why??  Because these bands are getting played all over on hard rock radio.

I'm way out of touch. I thought it was all Internet exposure these days.

Yeah, I'll admit I whined about DLPM getting the boot, because I feel like putting that song in the setlist yielded exactly the right results (the hardcore fans adored the inclusion even if they don't like the song much, casual fans were neutral to mildly negative). But they expected something else, probably.

Why would hardcore fans love to see a song live if they're not into the song?

Maybe because it's something new, something to tick of the list....

[MoraWintersoul]

Why would hardcore fans love to see a song live if they're not into the song?

Because it's new, because it's a tip of the hat to those who looked it up and listened to it, because it opens the door to other live rares being played, and a lot of other reasons.

[hefdaddy42]

DT in Glasgow on the SFAM tour back in 2000. Petrucci's guitar rig goes out half way through. What do they do? Why, they pull a fan out of the crowd onto the stage to sing War Pigs while the guitar tech gets to work.

The guitar comes alive again, JP joins in the impromptu Sabbath jam, and the whole place just fucking ERUPTS.

That kind of sweaty unplanned awesomeness just doesn't happen any more.

That show was unusual even for then.  That whole show was crazy as fuck.

That's where we got the Canadian Rap, after all.

I love listening to that bootleg for how batshit the whole thing is.  It sounds like they were all jetlagged, punch drunk, and strung out.

[cramx3]

Why would hardcore fans love to see a song live if they're not into the song?

Because it's new, because it's a tip of the hat to those who looked it up and listened to it, because it opens the door to other live rares being played, and a lot of other reasons.

Yup, for the fans who've seen the band so many times, it's a nice treat to get something different and rare.  Gives that show a specialness to it if you got to see it.  I'm not a big fan of this specific song, but I sure wish I saw it over TSCO.

[Herrick]

Why would hardcore fans love to see a song live if they're not into the song?

Because it's new, because it's a tip of the hat to those who looked it up and listened to it, because it opens the door to other live rares being played, and a lot of other reasons.

Yup, for the fans who've seen the band so many times, it's a nice treat to get something different and rare.  Gives that show a specialness to it if you got to see it.  I'm not a big fan of this specific song, but I sure wish I saw it over TSCO.

I'm not a big concert-goer so this is something I can't understand. When I'm at home or driving somewhere, I don't get tired of listening to the songs I love. If I got tired of seeing the same songs live, then I'd stop going. But I can't see myself enjoying the same songs live plus one or two songs I'm not into.

[Stadler]

And that's fair, I suppose.  To each their own.  For me, it's often less about the actual "songs", than the experience.  Almost all the "great" concert experiences I've had either were about songs I'm not high on or had nothing to do with the songs at all.  The exception is when McCartney played "Yesterday".   But while I'm not all that interested in "Freaks" as a song, when Hogarth and Rothery answered the crowd's chants and played an impromptu acoustic version of the song, with Hogarth singing from a piece of paper, it was a clear message that Marillion was there as much for the fans as the fans were there for Marillion.  It was a special moment. 

I think that's close to the idea that some are tapping into here.   

[Peter Mc]

I do get why hardcore fans enjoy hearing obscure stuff and I like Don’t Look Past Me but the band are looking to put on a show for 2,000 people or however many are there. I doubt they’re looking to please about 6 people who own the Cleaning Out the Closet cd (and 6 is generous) while the rest of the audience scratch their head saying “wtf is this?”. It’s just an unnecessary lull in the show to please a tiny number of people, doesn’t make sense when you have a huge catalogue of well known songs that people want to hear. I applaud them for giving it a go but, when it was going down like a lead balloon, it makes sense to take it out.

[DTA]

I do get why hardcore fans enjoy hearing obscure stuff and I like Don’t Look Past Me but the band are looking to put on a show for 2,000 people or however many are there. I doubt they’re looking to please about 6 people who own the Cleaning Out the Closet cd (and 6 is generous) while the rest of the audience scratch their head saying “wtf is this?”. It’s just an unnecessary lull in the show to please a tiny number of people, doesn’t make sense when you have a huge catalogue of well known songs that people want to hear. I applaud them for giving it a go but, when it was going down like a lead balloon, it makes sense to take it out.

But I think what they're getting at is there's already a bunch of super popular songs in the setlist that any die-hard fan has most likely seen multiple times, so why not throw in a rarity that only a few know to make it worth it for them? If the band was to go on tour right now and play just SFAM and I&W straight through in one concert, then I'd have no reason to see them. They're their most popular and beloved albums, but it wouldn't be worth it to me because I've seen all those songs many times. But if they did SFAM & I&W and then did You Not Me or The Way It Used To Be or Disappear, then that one rare song might be enough for me to see the concert. While I know I'll always enjoy seeing SFAM/I&W, I'll also get a song I've never gotten to experience live before so it's now become worth it. One really rare song can make me attend a concert I wouldn't normally attend and I'm sure other fans feel the same.

[Herrick]

And that's fair, I suppose.  To each their own.  For me, it's often less about the actual "songs", than the experience.  Almost all the "great" concert experiences I've had either were about songs I'm not high on or had nothing to do with the songs at all.  The exception is when McCartney played "Yesterday".   But while I'm not all that interested in "Freaks" as a song, when Hogarth and Rothery answered the crowd's chants and played an impromptu acoustic version of the song, with Hogarth singing from a piece of paper, it was a clear message that Marillion was there as much for the fans as the fans were there for Marillion.  It was a special moment. 

I think that's close to the idea that some are tapping into here.

That's cool. Maybe I'd get it if I saw the same band many times.

[Stadler]

I'm not sure "quantity" is necessary; maybe.   I saw Gene Simmons solo in a 1,000 seat club, and while it was mostly Gene's solo songs and songs he wrote while in Kiss, it was more about the fact that he was presenting himself in that setting.  No bombs, no fire, no blood, no breathing fire, no Paul, nothing but the nakedness of him singing those songs with three other guys.

Same with when I saw Billy Squier with GE Smith; I'm a huge Squier fan, and I'm not sure there was more than one or two songs in that set that I would have picked had I done the setlist ("in The Dark" and "Too Daze Gone").  Yet it was magical, because they were songs that HE picked to tell the story.

What's the difference between giving us The Astonishing and "Don't Look Past Me"?   Do you think all 2,500 people at every show were clamoring with passion for each song of that cycle?  They had their reasons and we accepted it.  Same with obscure songs, in my opinion.   

[Tick]

I have read some not all of this thread but as a guy who goes every tour I have seen some of the wind come out of there sails. I feel like my first tour which was the Score tour they were at there pinnacle. They held that momentum into the next tour which should have stayed an evening with format.  I think Prog Nation was a huge misstep and a big mistake for DT not doing a real tour for BC&SL.
The first Mangini tour had a lot of juice. The Beacon in NYC was sold out and rocking. After that its been tailing off I think. The Astonishing was certainly ambitious and on that tour they missed the mark my not at least playing something epic for an encore.
I feel this tour has lacked the juice I usually feel. I went to Albany mid October and it was the weakest crowd I've ever experienced. I do think they need to make sure the next album is strong and they need to stop memorializing albums by playing them in there entirety. I think the novice fan wants a more broad encompassing setlist with songs from all albums.

[Peter Mc]

I'm not sure "quantity" is necessary; maybe.   I saw Gene Simmons solo in a 1,000 seat club, and while it was mostly Gene's solo songs and songs he wrote while in Kiss, it was more about the fact that he was presenting himself in that setting.  No bombs, no fire, no blood, no breathing fire, no Paul, nothing but the nakedness of him singing those songs with three other guys.

Same with when I saw Billy Squier with GE Smith; I'm a huge Squier fan, and I'm not sure there was more than one or two songs in that set that I would have picked had I done the setlist ("in The Dark" and "Too Daze Gone").  Yet it was magical, because they were songs that HE picked to tell the story.

What's the difference between giving us The Astonishing and "Don't Look Past Me"?   Do you think all 2,500 people at every show were clamoring with passion for each song of that cycle?  They had their reasons and we accepted it.  Same with obscure songs, in my opinion.

The difference between The Astonishing and DLPM is that the vast majority of people in the audience in those shows knew all of those songs and knew they were going to be played. Pretty much zero people in any DT audience knows Don’t Look Past Me. They tried playing it, everyone went “meh, don’t know this one, I’m going to the bar/toilet” and therefore they pulled it from the set as it was killing the momentum of the show.  That makes perfect sense to me.  I’m not saying DT has to play Metropolis, Pull Me Under etc at every show, they’ve never done that. They’ve never been a band that just plays the hits as they don’t have any hits and, after they’ve now paid homage to their two big albums, I’m sure we’ll go back to a more balanced set list.  Why though should they continue to play a song that no one knows if it’s being met with apathy from the audience, just to please a minuscule number of fans?

[Setlist Scotty]

Why though should they continue to play a song that no one knows if it’s being met with apathy from the audience, just to please a minuscule number of fans?

Because it's a tiny percentage of the show (less than 7 minutes out of a show lasting 150+ minutes), and they know that they have diehard fans in the audience that eat that sort of thing up. And again, how many people who are sitting/standing and not doing anything are not enjoying the experience? They may not be familiar with the song, but that doesn't mean they're not enjoying it. If one of my favorite bands was to break out some obscure song I wasn't familiar with, I wouldn't be jumping up and down like a maniac, but I wouldn't be apathetic either. I would be standing there, taking in the song and enjoying the experience. How can I say that? Because that's exactly what I did on every occasion where the band did some sort of improv jam. I would imagine that there are plenty of other DT fans that have the same mindset, considering the fact that DT has a much higher percentage of a cult-fanbase than most mainstream bands.

[Lonk]

It also may have been its placement in the setlist. They played TLF during that tour as well (which I believe is considered a rarity as well?), to play DLPM right after could have triggered some people to say "Meh, I don't know what they are playing, I am just here for I&W".

[Stadler]

I'm not sure "quantity" is necessary; maybe.   I saw Gene Simmons solo in a 1,000 seat club, and while it was mostly Gene's solo songs and songs he wrote while in Kiss, it was more about the fact that he was presenting himself in that setting.  No bombs, no fire, no blood, no breathing fire, no Paul, nothing but the nakedness of him singing those songs with three other guys.

Same with when I saw Billy Squier with GE Smith; I'm a huge Squier fan, and I'm not sure there was more than one or two songs in that set that I would have picked had I done the setlist ("in The Dark" and "Too Daze Gone").  Yet it was magical, because they were songs that HE picked to tell the story.

What's the difference between giving us The Astonishing and "Don't Look Past Me"?   Do you think all 2,500 people at every show were clamoring with passion for each song of that cycle?  They had their reasons and we accepted it.  Same with obscure songs, in my opinion.

The difference between The Astonishing and DLPM is that the vast majority of people in the audience in those shows knew all of those songs and knew they were going to be played. Pretty much zero people in any DT audience knows Don’t Look Past Me. They tried playing it, everyone went “meh, don’t know this one, I’m going to the bar/toilet” and therefore they pulled it from the set as it was killing the momentum of the show.  That makes perfect sense to me.  I’m not saying DT has to play Metropolis, Pull Me Under etc at every show, they’ve never done that. They’ve never been a band that just plays the hits as they don’t have any hits and, after they’ve now paid homage to their two big albums, I’m sure we’ll go back to a more balanced set list.  Why though should they continue to play a song that no one knows if it’s being met with apathy from the audience, just to please a minuscule number of fans?

Honest question:  do you believe a casual fan is going to digest a two-CD sci-fi concept album and invest $100 to see a performance of that live?  Or conversely, do you believe that a more serious fan is going to digest a two-CD sci-fi concept album, and pay $100 for a reading of that concept, and will be oblivious to a not-that-obscure b-side or, in this case, unreleased song?

We're not talking about Taylor Swift here. 

[Peter Mc]

Why though should they continue to play a song that no one knows if it’s being met with apathy from the audience, just to please a minuscule number of fans?

Because it's a tiny percentage of the show (less than 7 minutes out of a show lasting 150+ minutes), and they know that they have diehard fans in the audience that eat that sort of thing up. And again, how many people who are sitting/standing and not doing anything are not enjoying the experience? They may not be familiar with the song, but that doesn't mean they're not enjoying it. If one of my favorite bands was to break out some obscure song I wasn't familiar with, I wouldn't be jumping up and down like a maniac, but I wouldn't be apathetic either. I would be standing there, taking in the song and enjoying the experience. How can I say that? Because that's exactly what I did on every occasion where the band did some sort of improv jam. I would imagine that there are plenty of other DT fans that have the same mindset, considering the fact that DT has a much higher percentage of a cult-fanbase than most mainstream bands.

I would be exactly the same as you with an unknown song or improv jam. People are reporting though that there WAS apathy, that people were using it as a bathroom break. I’m just saying, if that was the case, maybe it’s right to drop it rather than have a dead 7 min in the set. Surely they wouldn’t drop it if everyone was into it as you suggest.  I’m guessing they were seeing people walking out to the bar, talking to each other, going to the bathroom and not standing there intently taking it in and enjoying it.

[Peter Mc]

I'm not sure "quantity" is necessary; maybe.   I saw Gene Simmons solo in a 1,000 seat club, and while it was mostly Gene's solo songs and songs he wrote while in Kiss, it was more about the fact that he was presenting himself in that setting.  No bombs, no fire, no blood, no breathing fire, no Paul, nothing but the nakedness of him singing those songs with three other guys.

Same with when I saw Billy Squier with GE Smith; I'm a huge Squier fan, and I'm not sure there was more than one or two songs in that set that I would have picked had I done the setlist ("in The Dark" and "Too Daze Gone").  Yet it was magical, because they were songs that HE picked to tell the story.

What's the difference between giving us The Astonishing and "Don't Look Past Me"?   Do you think all 2,500 people at every show were clamoring with passion for each song of that cycle?  They had their reasons and we accepted it.  Same with obscure songs, in my opinion.

The difference between The Astonishing and DLPM is that the vast majority of people in the audience in those shows knew all of those songs and knew they were going to be played. Pretty much zero people in any DT audience knows Don’t Look Past Me. They tried playing it, everyone went “meh, don’t know this one, I’m going to the bar/toilet” and therefore they pulled it from the set as it was killing the momentum of the show.  That makes perfect sense to me.  I’m not saying DT has to play Metropolis, Pull Me Under etc at every show, they’ve never done that. They’ve never been a band that just plays the hits as they don’t have any hits and, after they’ve now paid homage to their two big albums, I’m sure we’ll go back to a more balanced set list.  Why though should they continue to play a song that no one knows if it’s being met with apathy from the audience, just to please a minuscule number of fans?

Honest question:  do you believe a casual fan is going to digest a two-CD sci-fi concept album and invest $100 to see a performance of that live?  Or conversely, do you believe that a more serious fan is going to digest a two-CD sci-fi concept album, and pay $100 for a reading of that concept, and will be oblivious to a not-that-obscure b-side or, in this case, unreleased song?

We're not talking about Taylor Swift here.

Sorry Stadler, not being funny but I genuinely don’t understand what you’re asking me there. I’m saying that most people going to see The Astonishing Live would know the material and have heard the album beforehand. Which is entirely different from going to the DOT/SFAM tour and hearing a very very obscure unreleased song which only a very small number of people have ever heard. I’m sure, in many shows, not one single person would know that song.  I will stress again that Id personally love to hear it and it’s cool that they included it in the set. I don’t blame them for dropping it though if it was not going over well at the shows they were doing.

[Lupton]

I would be exactly the same as you with an unknown song or improv jam. People are reporting though that there WAS apathy, that people were using it as a bathroom break. I’m just saying, if that was the case, maybe it’s right to drop it rather than have a dead 7 min in the set. Surely they wouldn’t drop it if everyone was into it as you suggest.  I’m guessing they were seeing people walking out to the bar, talking to each other, going to the bathroom and not standing there intently taking it in and enjoying it.

Totally agree. I've never heard the song myself. There's really no point in "throwing out a bone" to a small percentage of fans (who are never going to be completely happy with anything the band's doing anyway) at the expense of creating a dead spot in the set.
 

[KevShmev]

  There's really no point in "throwing out a bone" to a small percentage of fans (who are never going to be completely happy with anything the band's doing anyway) at the expense of creating a dead spot in the set.

There is something to be said for that.  Sometimes I think certain fans are happy if the band plays a rare song they don't even like, just so they can mentally check it off their list as a song the band played.

Let's face it, if the band plays a rare song and sees almost the entire crowd looking bored and a bunch of people heading for the lobby (to get a beer, take a leak, etc.), I can't blame them for not wanting to keep it in the set list.  Don't get me wrong, I have been that guy before at concerts where I felt like I was one of like 15 people enjoying a song (U2 playing Zooropa on the last leg of the 360 tour), but I get it if a band doesn't want to play something very obscure that almost no one is going to enjoy.

[Stadler]

Sorry Stadler, not being funny but I genuinely don’t understand what you’re asking me there. I’m saying that most people going to see The Astonishing Live would know the material and have heard the album beforehand. Which is entirely different from going to the DOT/SFAM tour and hearing a very very obscure unreleased song which only a very small number of people have ever heard. I’m sure, in many shows, not one single person would know that song.  I will stress again that Id personally love to hear it and it’s cool that they included it in the set. I don’t blame them for dropping it though if it was not going over well at the shows they were doing.

Well, I was going to write that I find it hard to believe a niche band like Dream Theater has a bunch of fans that are way into the 2-CD sci-fi concept record and aren't at least moderately familiar with the rest of the catalogue.  Granted, Lupton just proved me wrong at least with respect to DLPM, but we're not limited to just that song.   I said Taylor Swift, because I was making the point that the audience isn't there because of radio or Instaface.  But maybe a better example is someone like Meatloaf, or Bon Jovi.   You're going to get people that go to hear "Paradise By The Dashboard Light" or "Livin' On A Prayer", but may or may not have heard every b-side.  I wasn't at this round of shows, but I went to The Astonishing shows, and those were mostly fans that were there to see the latest offering of a band they were more than casually familiar with. 

Look I'm not arguing with you; I'm not really invested in guessing what other fans think, but for me it's not really ringing true.

[Peter Mc]

Sorry Stadler, not being funny but I genuinely don’t understand what you’re asking me there. I’m saying that most people going to see The Astonishing Live would know the material and have heard the album beforehand. Which is entirely different from going to the DOT/SFAM tour and hearing a very very obscure unreleased song which only a very small number of people have ever heard. I’m sure, in many shows, not one single person would know that song.  I will stress again that Id personally love to hear it and it’s cool that they included it in the set. I don’t blame them for dropping it though if it was not going over well at the shows they were doing.

Well, I was going to write that I find it hard to believe a niche band like Dream Theater has a bunch of fans that are way into the 2-CD sci-fi concept record and aren't at least moderately familiar with the rest of the catalogue.  Granted, Lupton just proved me wrong at least with respect to DLPM, but we're not limited to just that song.   I said Taylor Swift, because I was making the point that the audience isn't there because of radio or Instaface.  But maybe a better example is someone like Meatloaf, or Bon Jovi.   You're going to get people that go to hear "Paradise By The Dashboard Light" or "Livin' On A Prayer", but may or may not have heard every b-side.  I wasn't at this round of shows, but I went to The Astonishing shows, and those were mostly fans that were there to see the latest offering of a band they were more than casually familiar with. 

Look I'm not arguing with you; I'm not really invested in guessing what other fans think, but for me it's not really ringing true.

I do agree that DT fans are not like fans of mainstream bands and are not turning up expecting the “hits” and that most of them know the whole catalogue. My point was that DLPM is not part of the catalogue. As far as I’m aware, it’s only release is on a fan club exclusive free cd which only a very limited number of people own (me being one of them). It may also have been on the cd which accompanied the special first edition of the Lifting Shadows book, which I also own, I’m not sure. My point is though that this is not a well known and beloved cult fan favourite b-side, it’s something that has never been publicly available unless you were part of the official fan club 20 years ago or bought a limited edition version of their biography however many years ago it was released.

Again though, despite all that, Dream Theater DID include it in the set as they thought the same as you (and me) that DT fans are more knowledgeable than the average fan and would love to hear this rarity as a special treat.  From all accounts though, this wasn’t the reaction they got, people instead just saw it as a chance to go to the bar or have a quick bathroom break.  I don’t blame them therefore for saying “oh well, we tried it, fans weren’t into it so let’s drop the song and play something else” I’d expect them to do this though with any song, irrespective of whether it was a a rarity,  if it was being met with apathy every night, you just take that song out as it’s not working.

I will say that I’m surprised at the fan reaction though as it seems like the kind of thing that historically DT fans would appreciate. Maybe the fanbase has changed a little from us old bastards though and they do want the band to stick to stuff they know off the albums. Sad if that’s the case.

[Max Kuehnau]

I would have loved for them to play DLPM at the concert I attended though (I know they didn't because I went on the first leg), would have made me happy (and judging from the YT clips that are out there I clearly would have been), I've been a fan for 21 years btw, is that considered old or seasoned?

[MoraWintersoul]

As far as I’m aware, it’s only release is on a fan club exclusive free cd which only a very limited number of people own (me being one of them). It may also have been on the cd which accompanied the special first edition of the Lifting Shadows book, which I also own, I’m not sure. My point is though that this is not a well known and beloved cult fan favourite b-side, it’s something that has never been publicly available unless you were part of the official fan club 20 years ago or bought a limited edition version of their biography however many years ago it was released.

As long as I'm in DLPM's corner, I'd like to point out that as soon as it got featured on Lifting Shadows, it got uploaded to Youtube. The two separate oldest uploads from 11 years ago have 56k and 8.8k views, and it's been uploaded and deleted many times on many other channels, I'm sure. For a subsection of fans I belong to, it is a cult favorite, because it was written by Kevin Moore. That's where I first heard it - I wasn't out buying the first edition of Lifting Shadows, but I was trawling through youtube 

[ReaPsTA]

Why hide the back catalog on super obscure disks that no one's going to hear? Cleaning Out the Closet should be on Dream Theater's Youtube channel to generate interests in the tracks. Use the hardcore fan oriented releases for demos and studio outtakes.

[Cool Chris]

While I wholeheartedly agree with you in principle, I am not sure CotC is worth trying to generate interest in.

[Lupton]

It's interesting that I don't really know which DT songs I've never heard, as I have all the main catalog and all the live releases (how I heard Another Won, Raise The Knife, To Live Forever).  Without actually knowing what tunes are available through the special club releases, the only songs that come to mind that I haven't heard are Eve (saw this on a single), Raw Dog and ... Don't Look Past Me. I probably would not even know of the existence of that tune if it hadn't been you guy's discussion. I'm sure there are many more that I don't even know exist.

[Lonk]

A song I’m sure a lot of people don’t know and I would love to see it live is “Speak to me”. It probably would have the same, if not worst reaction than DLPM though.

[Lupton]

A song I’m sure a lot of people don’t know and I would love to see it live is “Speak to me”. It probably would have the same, if not worst reaction than DLPM though.

Is that a B-side or a YtseJam release?

[MirrorMask]

I found out pretty early about both Speak to Me (opening track of the Once in a Livetime video) and Don't Look Past Me. I'm a fan since 1999 and I assume I knew about those songs since 2000 at the latest.

[Lupton]

I found out pretty early about both Speak to Me (opening track of the Once in a Livetime video) and Don't Look Past Me. I'm a fan since 1999 and I assume I knew about those songs since 2000 at the latest.

Ah That's right I have that video and have only ever watched it once. I totally forgot about that! Don't remember that song at all. LOL

Thanks for clearing that up. I'm getting so bored with having to Google/Wiki everything these days. And YouTube pisses me off with all of it's lame-o adverts. Much more interesting to hear from actual DT fans.

[Stadler]

It's interesting that I don't really know which DT songs I've never heard, as I have all the main catalog and all the live releases (how I heard Another Won, Raise The Knife, To Live Forever).  Without actually knowing what tunes are available through the special club releases, the only songs that come to mind that I haven't heard are Eve (saw this on a single), Raw Dog and ... Don't Look Past Me. I probably would not even know of the existence of that tune if it hadn't been you guy's discussion. I'm sure there are many more that I don't even know exist.

FYI, most - not all, but most - of the "fan club" songs are available in other locations.   B-sides are relatively cheaply found on the internet - eBay or Discogs.  I think Ytsejam is still selling old stock, so the FII director's cut is available as are the I&W demos/b-sides... I ended up getting "Cleaning..." on eBay for $20 or so for completeness, but I found I knew all but maybe one or two of those songs already.

[Lupton]

FYI, most - not all, but most - of the "fan club" songs are available in other locations.   B-sides are relatively cheaply found on the internet - eBay or Discogs.  I think Ytsejam is still selling old stock, so the FII director's cut is available as are the I&W demos/b-sides... I ended up getting "Cleaning..." on eBay for $20 or so for completeness, but I found I knew all but maybe one or two of those songs already.

Thanks for the helpful pointers Stadler! 
But unfortunately my broke ass can't afford shit these days (though I did manage to get some pretty silly "white elephant" gifts for Christmas -- can't wait to see the reactions to those!  ). So I'm afraid that pretty much leaves YouTube for me which I do use quite often but...it's a real test of my patience. I absolutely loathe, detest, hate advertisements with extreme prejudice. Always been that way my whole life. At least when you record things on TV you can fast forward through the commercials. For that reason, I refuse to watch anything in real time. The worst thing about Youtube ads is they pop up completely at random sometimes in the middle of the track. It makes my blood boil!

[jadiggerdt]

The popularity in Chile is wild. Seems like DT is more poppish in South america but less in Europe and US now.  In norway is far from sold out.

[gzarruk]

The popularity in Chile is wild. Seems like DT is more poppish in South america but less in Europe and US now.  In norway is far from sold out.

Depends on the country. They haven't come here (Peru) in almost 10 years because there's just not enough demand and promoters aren't willing to take the chance. Also, there was only one show for Chile and one for Argentina, so most of the fanbase gathers for one show vs other countries where the fans are split on multiple areas/shows.

[jadiggerdt]

Good idea
Not so stupid.  Denmark, Norway and Sweden should  have one concert at a heavy concert scene with 20000 spectators instead of 3-4000 per show in each country
Dont think the promoters will like that