Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame

[pg1067]

But I kind of think you're soft-pedalling Collins a little bit.  It's not heavy metal, to be sure, but you'd be hard pressed to say he's less "rock" than some of David Gilmour's solo stuff (not in), or some of the work by the Eagles (in, of course), Gabriel (in, of course), Sting (not in), Jackson Browne (in), CSN (in), and others.  Plus his drum sound influenced a ton of other artists.  If Ringo Starr is in for HIS solo career, then they have some answering to do for Collins, Gilmour, and Sting.

There's a lot of inconsistency there, which is a huge problem with the RRHOF.  Without thinking about it too much, of the names mentioned here, I feel like the Eagles and CSN should be in, Sting, Gabriel and Collins are wobblers, and none of the others (particularly including Starr) should be in.

I've always hated Green Day, and I don't get the appeal of Radiohead. I don't know who Laura Nyro is.

There's no good reason for Green Day or Radiohead to be in.  I remember the year Laura Nyro got in.  I read her name on the list of nominees and read who she was.  As I sit here right now, I can't recall who she was except that she had some connection with Jackson Browne (in, but shouldn't be).

pg, I can name songs from every Pearl Jam album.  Not sure where you think no one follow them.

It would be better if you critiqued what I actually wrote than what I didn't write.  I don't think -- and didn't write -- that "no one [follows] them."  What I wrote was a question:  "Can most folks name any song not on Ten?"  I'm quite confident that a healthy percentage (and perhaps a significant majority) of folks who post here can name songs not on Ten.  That's why I phrased the question as I did.  That being said, I realize that my question isn't really answerable.  Nor is it the be all and end all of the legitimacy of PJ's inclusion in the RRHOF.  But I think it's a big part of it.

[King Postwhore]

Using this site as an example is a poor choice.  They have a huge following.   You're just outside of that world.

[NoseofNicko]

Reading some of the posts in this thread I feel like I’m in an alternate universe where Radiohead have only released Pablo Honey.

They’re one of the most critically acclaimed bands of all time, that’s one of the many reasons why they’re in there.

[King Postwhore]

Reading some of the posts in this thread I feel like I’m in an alternate universe where Radiohead have only released Pablo Honey.

They’re one of the most critically acclaimed bands of all time, that’s one of the many reasons why they’re in there.

Right?  This again points to me saying this forum is not the barometer for the RnRHOF.

[TAC]

I've literally never heard a single Radiohead song.

[NoseofNicko]

I've literally never heard a single Radiohead song.

Then that makes your "Radiohead is in? Wow” post pretty stupid. I mean how can you be shocked a band is considered great when you’ve never heard any of their music? And don’t say if they really were a great band you would’ve heard atleast one of their songs, most people have never heard a Dream Theater song.

[TAC]

Why would it make the post stupid?


Hey look, man, I've got nothing against Radiohead. But for some sort of Music HOF, I don't know, I think I would somehow know something by them.

[NoseofNicko]

Why would it make the post stupid?


Hey look, man, I've got nothing against Radiohead. But for some sort of Music HOF, I don't know, I think I would somehow know something by them.

I edited my post.

Also pretty normal for someone who doesn’t really seek out non-metal/hard rock music not to know anything by a non-metal/hard rock band.

I personally seek out all kinds of music, but I haven’t heard quite a few artists in the RnRHOF.

[TAC]

I've never heard Little Richard, but I don't need to to know he's great or was influential.

And yes, I'm a hard rock/metal guy, so I obviously run in different circles than Radioheads. I guess I'm shocked to find out that they are so popular and influential, and have been around long enough to be considered for the RnR HOF. I've never encountered anything about them in any way. I didn't realize they have had such a great impact.

[NoseofNicko]

I've never heard Little Richard, but I don't need to to know he's great or was influential.

And yes, I'm a hard rock/metal guy, so I obviously run in different circles than Radioheads. I guess I'm shocked to find out that they are so popular and influential, and have been around long enough to be considered for the RnR HOF. I've never encountered anything about them in any way. I didn't realize they have had such a great impact.

You’ve probably heard their song Creep without knowing it was them at some point. It’s their most popular song but one of their weakest as far as I’m concerned.

[TAC]

Gonna Spotify it now...Nope..I can't place it.

I see that's a 1993 release. In 1993, my ears were pretty open, as MTV was still playing music.

[King Postwhore]

Tim, this goes to my theory that you were buried in a time capsule for over a decade.

[TAC]

That's ain't no theory, man.

[Stadler]

I'm kind of with Tim on this one, though.

There's "critically acclaimed" and "critically acclaimed", though.   Bob Dylan and Little Richard are "critically acclaimed", even if people don't spend a ton of time listening actively to the new Little Richard album.   But they also influenced a ton of bands (including, for both of them, the Beatles), they changed the way rock was perceived and listened to, they spoke to and about an entire generation, they helped create/refine entire genres. they displayed a proficiency at their craft and/or instruments...

Then there's "critically acclaimed" where it's cool to say "hey I saw them deliver a killer set at Coachella".   I'd give Radiohead a LOT more credit if they generated RnRHoF buzz over a period of years as we saw more and more bands influenced by them, as their music saturated the zeitgeist, etc. etc.  But no, they were second-ballot inductees.  Their legacy?  Maybe I'll give you "innovative album releases".  I have OK Computer, Kid A, Amnesiac, and Hail To The Thief, and other than the politics of the last one, I'm just not seeing it, OR hearing it in other acts (MAYBE Coldplay, at least in the vocals). I saw them open for... I think it was U2 and honestly, it left zero impression (and I'm more than fine sharing that a band that I don't listen to would be good live, like The Cure.)

[TAC]

I just never realized they were such a thing. I mean, they've let a lot of bands in based on such short time success, or one hit wonders (GnR, Nirvana, JJ& The Blackhearts).

Yes, I am hard rock. But it seems inconceivable that it took Deep Purple, Rush, and Van Halen so long to get in, yet GnR? No problem. What a fucking joke. Nirvana? No problem. Seriously, Stadler, you suck for even starting this thread. I'm getting too pissed off!

[NoseofNicko]

But they also influenced a ton of bands (including, for both of them, the Beatles), they changed the way rock was perceived and listened to, they spoke to and about an entire generation, they helped create/refine entire genres. they displayed a proficiency at their craft and/or instruments...

You could say a few of those things about Radiohead too honestly. Influence + proficiency at their craft and instruments (they might not shred but they are/were instrumentally innovative) definitely.

I mean if they were so bad surely they wouldn’t have 3 albums in the top 10 highest rated albums of all time on the biggest music rating site: https://rateyourmusic.com/customchart

[TAC]

Nicko, chill dude. No one has said they were "so bad".

[King Postwhore]

Nicko, you're dealing with old farts.   

[KevShmev]

I don't give two craps about any band being critically acclaimed (critics can F off), but Radiohead has been pretty huge for most of the last 25+ years.  They are one of those bands where they almost never have hits, yet their albums sell a ton and their concerts are always packed.  Great band, one of my newer favorites.

[King Postwhore]

Take that you old bastards.   

Drop the newspaper,  go on Netscape and find out who they are.

[bl5150]

Hey Tim................even I know the song "Creep".      It reminds me of my university days (92-95) when every band that I loved was summarily removed from the radio and replaced with stuff like Creep , Under The Bridge , Zombie and Smells Like Teen Spirit.   I don't mind SLTS but most of the rest..................uggh 

I heard Under The Bridge so many times back then that I grew to hate it with a passion and to this day it turns my stomach .


Yeah - I'm an old bastard too - just not as old (or as much of a bastard) as Tim. 


I haven't followed the RRHoF for ages ..........once I saw some of the artists that were getting in  (not so much the 90's rock bands but bands that aren't even in the ballpark of being "rock") I just switched off.

[jammindude]

The idea that someone exists who never heard Creep is deeply mind blowing to me.

It reminds me of the first time I met someone who had never seen Star Wars.

That song was everywhere when it came out.

[Cool Chris]

I just listened to Creep. I can't say I've never heard it in my lifetime, but nothing about it sounded familiar at all. I could not name another Radiohead song off the top of my head.

I think I get them confused with Coldplay. Which is weird since I cannot name one of their songs either.

[Zook]

The idea that someone exists who never heard Creep is deeply mind blowing to me.

It reminds me of the first time I met someone who had never seen Star Wars.

That song was everywhere when it came out.

Was it Chino?

[Indiscipline]

T-Rex shoud have been a lock ages ago, but that's just me being a ponce.

Radiohead should be inside the Rock'n'Roll Hall of Fame for the same exact reasons Pete Rose should be inside the Baseball Hall of Fame. I may consider them unbearable rubbish, but I can't deny historical relevance where it's due. Fame is fame.

[Stadler]

But they also influenced a ton of bands (including, for both of them, the Beatles), they changed the way rock was perceived and listened to, they spoke to and about an entire generation, they helped create/refine entire genres. they displayed a proficiency at their craft and/or instruments...

You could say a few of those things about Radiohead too honestly. Influence + proficiency at their craft and instruments (they might not shred but they are/were instrumentally innovative) definitely.

I mean if they were so bad surely they wouldn’t have 3 albums in the top 10 highest rated albums of all time on the biggest music rating site: https://rateyourmusic.com/customchart

You COULD say them, but I'm not sure it would be justified by the facts. 

Look, we - I - started this with a diatribe (yes I admit, that's what it was) about Phil Collins.   The dude has sold 100 million albums ALL BY HIMSELF.    In America only, No Jacket has sold 12 MILLION alone.   Face Value, 5 million, Hello, 3 million, and  But Seriously, 4 million.   In the UK, NJR and ...BS alone are about 4.5 million. 

The highest selling Radiohead record - OK Computer - is 2 million.  Rough math (very rough) has ALL their records combined at about 7 million total.   (In the UK, about 4.5 million total).

There is no "Radiohead [insert instrument] sound".   You ask metal, rap, country fans what the "Phil Collins drum sound" is, and they know.   MY MOTHER knows "In The Air Tonight".  I think the "TAC data point" is relevant, because to a degree, the ability of an artist to transcend genres is important.   The Beatles are the Beatles, because EVERYONE knows at least one Beatles song, and for good reason. 

And as for that list, I put zero stock in it (we've talked about it here before).  I love Floyd, to the point that I'm almost a discography completist (yes, even the big 'ole Early Years box set) but to have a top ten list that has three Radiohead and two Floyd albums, and ZERO Beatles, Zeppelin, Dylan, Hendrix, Stones, Who or Queen albums is on it's face suspect.

Look, it's all friendly discussion.  If they are your favorite band, I'm sorry, it's not personal.  They might actually belong in the Hall for all I know (and for all my judgement is worth).  But I just feel there are outside forces at work when they are second ballot while legendary artists, genre-creating artists (and artists that influenced Radiohead themselves) sit outside.   It's a crying - literally - shame that Chris Squire and Jon Lord didn't get to experience their honor, because of billshot personal crap from the nominating committee, and Radiohead gets the benefit of the doubt, in my opinion as much for their politics and attitude as their music. 

[King Postwhore]

Stads, you know who chair the board of the RnRHOF?  There's a reason just in the last 5 years bands we listen to are just getting in.

[jammindude]

I don’t even care for Radiohead that much. I didn’t own any of their albums until my friend who owned a record store died and I inherited a ton of his music. I listened to OK Computer a couple times and immediately thought “OH! So this is where every other band for the next 10 years got that sound.” But I don’t revisit it very often.

But even then, I can’t deny their influence. Everyone talked about that album. I didn’t hear it until 10 years after it came out, but I had been hearing everyone in the business singing its praises constantly for all that time. It just seemed to be one of those albums that people continue talking about long after it drops off the charts.

I may not be a fan, but I would never question their induction. Their influence is deep on a Elvis Costello type of level.

[Stadler]

You'd be right if U2 didn't already release those sounds in 1991 (Achtung Baby!) and 1993 (Zooropa), and updating them through '95-'97 (Pop).

I do hear some later influence - Keane, Travis - but those seemed to flame out pretty quickly. 

I just read quotes like this (about Paranoid Android): "Bassist Colin Greenwood said the band "felt like irresponsible schoolboys ... nobody does a six-and-a-half-minute song with all these changes. It's ridiculous.""   Uh... Bohemian Rhapsody, every prog song from 1971 through 1977, Good Vibrations, Stairway To Heaven... and I would hardly call those "ridiculous", even if that's the viewpoint of the cognoscenti that thinks "prog" is a four-letter word.   It just seems disingenuous and targeted at an audience that doesn't know better (or, more likely, doesn't WANT to know better). 

EDIT:   In all fairness, I'm actually listening to OK Computer as I write this - nothing like revisiting or refreshing one's perceptions - and I'm on song four ("Exit Music (For A Film)") now and it's like listening to a Dream Theater album in a way.  "Oh, that sounds like...", "oh, wait, that part is...", "wow, that sounds kinda like...".   And the the trick is, "did that come out before 1997, or after?"

EDIT 2: In even more fairness, I'm not personally fixated on just Radiohead.   I can have this discussion about Green Day, Guns'n'Roses, The Red Hot Chili Peppers, and Nirvana as well.

[King Postwhore]

His quote was about "at this moment" in music. Not the 70's.

[NoseofNicko]

I love both 70s prog rock and Paranoid Android/Radiohead in general.

[King Postwhore]

They are really an acquired taste.  I'm not big into them but I like a few songs. 

[NoseofNicko]

My point was you don’t have to "not know better" to be into Radiohead.

[King Postwhore]

Or you don't have to be into them to make the HOF.

[NoseofNicko]

Just found this: http://dreamtheater.net/discography/six-degrees-of-inner-turbulence/

"Influences for the album’s writing and recording include Radiohead’s OK Computer (and also a Radiohead bootleg Portnoy brought in)"

Probably mainly Disappear. Always thought it sounded like a Radiohead song.

So even our favorite band was influenced by Radiohead.