Author Topic: Ukraine Scandal / Impeachment Investigation  (Read 20178 times)

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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Ukraine Scandal / Impeachment Investigation
« Reply #385 on: February 06, 2020, 03:26:07 PM »
I agree Romney couldn't win as an independent, but he COULD remove Trump by splitting the Republican vote enough to get a Democrat elected. That would do the job as well.

As much as we all love to rag on the Democrats for not making an amazing candidate, let's not forget that the current Republican party has basically said that Trump is the best candidate they have to offer.

Well, they basically have to say that, but I would submit that the best candidates either side could put forward probably aren't interested in running.  It's a thankless job, you will get vilified non-stop for four (or eight) years by nearly half the country, and your aging process will move to warp speed.  I suspect the (very, very) small number of politicians who are actually interested in doing things for the good of the country would rather do their work in Congress or on the state level. 

As for Romney, running as an independent would undoubtedly hand the election to the Democrats, since he would take enough votes away from Trump to make the difference, but it would also be career suicide on his part, and despite his "I had to vote my conscience" stance he took yesterday, I don't think he is willing to do that.

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Re: Ukraine Scandal / Impeachment Investigation
« Reply #386 on: February 06, 2020, 08:01:13 PM »
As for Romney, running as an independent would undoubtedly hand the election to the Democrats, since he would take enough votes away from Trump to make the difference, but it would also be career suicide on his part, and despite his "I had to vote my conscience" stance he took yesterday, I don't think he is willing to do that.

Romney is a 72 y/o billionaire. Not sure Romney cares...obviously.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Ukraine Scandal / Impeachment Investigation
« Reply #387 on: February 07, 2020, 04:24:33 AM »
Well, they basically have to say that, but I would submit that the best candidates either side could put forward probably aren't interested in running.  It's a thankless job, you will get vilified non-stop for four (or eight) years by nearly half the country, and your aging process will move to warp speed.  I suspect the (very, very) small number of politicians who are actually interested in doing things for the good of the country would rather do their work in Congress or on the state level. 

That is interesting and most likely true. And I also understand that the pay is not exagerated so you don't even get an obscene amount of money for your troubles. At a certain level you have to be, dunno, a bit... megalomaniac to consider yourself able to lead the most powerful nation in the world? there are bad megalomaniacs (look at Trump cyberfellating himself with every tweet) and I don't know if there are "good megalomaniacs", but maybe there were in the past people truly convinced of being able to do some good and that they were fit for it. We'll never know if presidents who gave a serious and competent vibe, like Obama, each night in the safety of their beds grinned to himself thinking "mwhaha I'm so good at this, there's nobody else in the world who could be better than me".

Or maybe, dunno, some get a Frodo complex, "I don't really want to do it but I'll carry the ring to Mordor". They think "well, if nobody is gonna do the right things for this country, I'll do it myself".
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Offline Podaar

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Re: Ukraine Scandal / Impeachment Investigation
« Reply #388 on: February 07, 2020, 07:44:33 AM »
The Utah State Legislature is in session, and is worse than our winter weather. HB0217 was introduced last week. It is a bill that would change our election laws so that the state legislature can recall US Senators. Coincidence or targeting Romney?
Surely such a bill would be unconstitutional?

Clearly.

That won't stop our idiot legislature. There's nothing they love more than wasting taxpayer money by paying their lawyer-buddies to tilt at Constitutional windmills all in the name of "States rights".
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Offline Podaar

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Re: Ukraine Scandal / Impeachment Investigation
« Reply #389 on: February 07, 2020, 07:49:58 AM »
As for Romney, running as an independent would undoubtedly hand the election to the Democrats, since he would take enough votes away from Trump to make the difference, but it would also be career suicide on his part, and despite his "I had to vote my conscience" stance he took yesterday, I don't think he is willing to do that.

Romney is a 72 y/o billionaire. Not sure Romney cares...obviously.

This. The last report I read was that Scout Master Romney is raking in $200 million per year. He probably has more FU money than anyone else in D.C.. From what I can tell, his political career is more an ego-stroking-hobby than anything else.
I have always found it quaint, and rather touching, that there is a movement in the U.S. that thinks Americans are not yet selfish enough. Christopher Hitchens

Online Chino

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Re: Ukraine Scandal / Impeachment Investigation
« Reply #390 on: February 07, 2020, 07:52:30 AM »
Mitt is 72? Holy Shit. Looks good for his age.

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Re: Ukraine Scandal / Impeachment Investigation
« Reply #391 on: February 07, 2020, 08:14:09 AM »
I agree Romney couldn't win as an independent, but he COULD remove Trump by splitting the Republican vote enough to get a Democrat elected. That would do the job as well.

As much as we all love to rag on the Democrats for not making an amazing candidate, let's not forget that the current Republican party has basically said that Trump is the best candidate they have to offer.

Well, they basically have to say that, but I would submit that the best candidates either side could put forward probably aren't interested in running.  It's a thankless job, you will get vilified non-stop for four (or eight) years by nearly half the country, and your aging process will move to warp speed.  I suspect the (very, very) small number of politicians who are actually interested in doing things for the good of the country would rather do their work in Congress or on the state level. 

As for Romney, running as an independent would undoubtedly hand the election to the Democrats, since he would take enough votes away from Trump to make the difference, but it would also be career suicide on his part, and despite his "I had to vote my conscience" stance he took yesterday, I don't think he is willing to do that.

TOTALLY my speculation, and if someone wanted to (respectfully, and in good faith) accuse me of looking at this through my own lenses, I doubt I'd have a good response, but I think there might be some truth in the idea that many Republicans have taken the "9/57" approach.   He's gone in "9 or 57 months", so let's make sure we keep the Senate, and weather the storm.   What's the upside of challenging Trump?   You've got the Executive Branch, you've got the Senate, where is the political benefit from rocking the Trump vote?   "Credibility" hasn't been an issue for politicians since the Reagan era, so it's not that.   

I am a huge Mitt fan, so this could be wishful thinking, but I really do believe that this is what Mitt is doing.  He's playing chess, and is about six moves ahead, whereas the majority of Congress (both Republicans and many, many Democrats, including Schiff, but not Pelosi) are playing checkers and are focused on that boss jump that just opened up.  Not for him - I don't see him running again ever if he doesn't somehow run in 2020 - but I think he's setting the stage for what comes next.   

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Re: Ukraine Scandal / Impeachment Investigation
« Reply #392 on: February 07, 2020, 08:17:34 AM »
Well, they basically have to say that, but I would submit that the best candidates either side could put forward probably aren't interested in running.  It's a thankless job, you will get vilified non-stop for four (or eight) years by nearly half the country, and your aging process will move to warp speed.  I suspect the (very, very) small number of politicians who are actually interested in doing things for the good of the country would rather do their work in Congress or on the state level. 

That is interesting and most likely true. And I also understand that the pay is not exagerated so you don't even get an obscene amount of money for your troubles. At a certain level you have to be, dunno, a bit... megalomaniac to consider yourself able to lead the most powerful nation in the world? there are bad megalomaniacs (look at Trump cyberfellating himself with every tweet) and I don't know if there are "good megalomaniacs", but maybe there were in the past people truly convinced of being able to do some good and that they were fit for it. We'll never know if presidents who gave a serious and competent vibe, like Obama, each night in the safety of their beds grinned to himself thinking "mwhaha I'm so good at this, there's nobody else in the world who could be better than me".

Or maybe, dunno, some get a Frodo complex, "I don't really want to do it but I'll carry the ring to Mordor". They think "well, if nobody is gonna do the right things for this country, I'll do it myself".
With the warning that it's a major rabbit hole to go down, Google that some time.  There are several psychological analyses of Presidents through history, and I think you'll find pretty quickly that the number of "Frodo's" in the White House is rather small when compared to the number of people with narcissistic tendencies.   Even the good ones, it takes a special hubris to presume you're entitled and qualified to govern 325 million people of disparate backgrounds, dispositions, and temperaments, as well as a $20 trillion economy (the largest in the history of the world).   

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Re: Ukraine Scandal / Impeachment Investigation
« Reply #393 on: May 11, 2020, 08:21:23 AM »
 :corn    Lots of interesting facts coming out about this case the past few days. Something different than what we're used to concerning it....
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Re: Ukraine Scandal / Impeachment Investigation
« Reply #394 on: May 11, 2020, 09:45:29 AM »
:corn    Lots of interesting facts coming out about this case the past few days. Something different than what we're used to concerning it....

Im doing the same as you... :corn
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Re: Ukraine Scandal / Impeachment Investigation
« Reply #395 on: May 13, 2020, 09:11:53 AM »
https://www.wsj.com/articles/all-the-adam-schiff-transcripts-11589326164?mod=opinion_lead_pos1

I was going to put something snarky, like "Who could ever have seen THIS coming?" (but "Wow, what a shocker!" was up there too, as was "As I've been saying for over a year now..."), but really, it stands on it's own.

By the way, inb4 the accusations of Trump apology; this is NOT about Trump.  He's a scumbag, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if there's something funny somewhere in the portfolio, but this is about SCHIFF.  He put himself up there as the paragon of truth and rule of law, and specifically used Trump's lying and moral failings as fodder for his almost maniacal crusade.  That, and his trampling of the very checks and balances he purported to be upholding.     But no, it turns out it "takes one to know one", and he's right down there in the sewer as well.  THIS (meaning his party) is the so-called "lesser of two evils".  Why trade one pack of liars for another, albeit slightly better pack of liars?  At least with Trump there's no facade or patina of "righteousness" to wade through.  You know what you're getting at all times.   

Online Adami

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Re: Ukraine Scandal / Impeachment Investigation
« Reply #396 on: May 13, 2020, 09:17:27 AM »
https://www.wsj.com/articles/all-the-adam-schiff-transcripts-11589326164?mod=opinion_lead_pos1

I was going to put something snarky, like "Who could ever have seen THIS coming?" (but "Wow, what a shocker!" was up there too, as was "As I've been saying for over a year now..."), but really, it stands on it's own.

By the way, inb4 the accusations of Trump apology; this is NOT about Trump.  He's a scumbag, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if there's something funny somewhere in the portfolio, but this is about SCHIFF.  He put himself up there as the paragon of truth and rule of law, and specifically used Trump's lying and moral failings as fodder for his almost maniacal crusade.  That, and his trampling of the very checks and balances he purported to be upholding.     But no, it turns out it "takes one to know one", and he's right down there in the sewer as well.  THIS (meaning his party) is the so-called "lesser of two evils".  Why trade one pack of liars for another, albeit slightly better pack of liars?  At least with Trump there's no facade or patina of "righteousness" to wade through.  You know what you're getting at all times.   

Well, I know this forum is filled with fellow Schiff fans (we call ourselves Schifflers) and that has left us all speechless!
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Online Stadler

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Re: Ukraine Scandal / Impeachment Investigation
« Reply #397 on: May 13, 2020, 09:27:20 AM »
Is Schiffler's mom involved? 

Online Adami

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Re: Ukraine Scandal / Impeachment Investigation
« Reply #398 on: May 13, 2020, 09:28:14 AM »
Is Schiffler's mom involved?

You better start a politically themed rock band called Schiffler's Mom!
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Re: Ukraine Scandal / Impeachment Investigation
« Reply #399 on: May 13, 2020, 10:03:37 AM »
So I'm still confused. Is any of this related to Obamagate? Cuz, what Studler posted dosen't seem like a gate to me.
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Online Adami

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Re: Ukraine Scandal / Impeachment Investigation
« Reply #400 on: May 13, 2020, 10:11:04 AM »
So I'm still confused. Is any of this related to Obamagate? Cuz, what Studler posted dosen't seem like a gate to me.

My original question was very genuine. I have heard Obamagate a bunch in the past few days. And I have no idea what it is. Based soley on this thread, which I may be horribly misreading, it's that Obama either claimed that he knew nothing about Russia but did or that Obama knowingly faked the investigation against Trump? I dunno. I'm lost.
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Offline Elite

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Re: Ukraine Scandal / Impeachment Investigation
« Reply #401 on: May 13, 2020, 10:26:31 AM »
Its whatever you want it to mean to stir up the pot and cause more unrest.
Hey dude slow the fuck down so we can finish together at the same time.  :biggrin:
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Re: Ukraine Scandal / Impeachment Investigation
« Reply #402 on: May 13, 2020, 11:01:42 AM »
https://www.wsj.com/articles/all-the-adam-schiff-transcripts-11589326164?mod=opinion_lead_pos1

I was going to put something snarky, like "Who could ever have seen THIS coming?" (but "Wow, what a shocker!" was up there too, as was "As I've been saying for over a year now..."), but really, it stands on it's own.

By the way, inb4 the accusations of Trump apology; this is NOT about Trump.  He's a scumbag, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if there's something funny somewhere in the portfolio, but this is about SCHIFF.  He put himself up there as the paragon of truth and rule of law, and specifically used Trump's lying and moral failings as fodder for his almost maniacal crusade.  That, and his trampling of the very checks and balances he purported to be upholding.     But no, it turns out it "takes one to know one", and he's right down there in the sewer as well.  THIS (meaning his party) is the so-called "lesser of two evils".  Why trade one pack of liars for another, albeit slightly better pack of liars?  At least with Trump there's no facade or patina of "righteousness" to wade through.  You know what you're getting at all times.   

Can you post a transcript. I don't want to subscribe just to read one article.
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Online Stadler

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Re: Ukraine Scandal / Impeachment Investigation
« Reply #403 on: May 13, 2020, 11:55:03 AM »
Its whatever you want it to mean to stir up the pot and cause more unrest.

I think this thought is pointed in the right direction; it's a way of referring to something very complicated and wholly dependent on the detailed facts (some of which we will never know unless we were in that room) and make it into something that is readily tweetable and hash-tag-able.   It's not an unknown or recent tactic; it's been done for decades (since at least the namesake "Watergate" scandal).   And it doesn't have to even be a "-gate". The targeted references to the "Muslim Ban" (words which were never explicitly stated in the Travel Ban, nor a direct consequence of the elements of the Travel Ban, but it was eminently tweetable!) come to mind recently.

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Ukraine Scandal / Impeachment Investigation
« Reply #404 on: May 13, 2020, 12:15:10 PM »
Labeling anything-Gate should be prohibited by Congressional mandate. It is the laziest form of jounralism.

I wish the DNC was HQed at a place called the Hancock when Liddy and Hunt broke in. So 40 years later we wouldn't have the Obamagate and Inflategate controversy, we'd have Obamacock and Inflatecock controversy
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Re: Ukraine Scandal / Impeachment Investigation
« Reply #405 on: May 13, 2020, 12:51:52 PM »
Inflatecock.   I'd pay money to hear Jake Tapper, or Brook Baldwin, or the Fox And Friends crew try to work that one into the vernacular. 

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Re: Ukraine Scandal / Impeachment Investigation
« Reply #406 on: June 03, 2020, 09:12:27 AM »
Former Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein testifies on Crossfire Hurricane Investigation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbvXIi7hV5I
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