Author Topic: How good of a drummer was Ringo Starr?  (Read 3344 times)

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Offline Stadler

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Re: How good of a drummer was Ringo Starr?
« Reply #35 on: October 08, 2019, 01:08:30 PM »
There are several songs where Paul McCartney played piano, on some of those - "The Long And Winding Road", most notably - Lennon played bass.  "Macca" is short for McCartney, sort of like "Mac" here in the States.

That was the question.  I know McCartney played pretty much every instrument at one point or another during the Beatles' career (and, on a couple of songs, all of them), but I've never heard him referred to as "Macca."

I think it's a English thing, specifically a Liverpool thing.   There's a quote from McCartney that answers this floating around somewhere; he refers to "Harrie" (for Harrison, something I've never heard even once) and "Lennie" for John (something I have heard but is not nearly as common as "Macca"). 

Offline KevShmev

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Re: How good of a drummer was Ringo Starr?
« Reply #36 on: October 08, 2019, 06:27:42 PM »
I see him referred to as Macca quite often.  Weird.

But yeah, Paul and John were always playing around with different instruments and whatnot.  It's funny to reach the song by song breakdown of the White Album where you realize how many songs on that album didn't feature all four Beatles and how many were sometimes just one or two of the lads.

Offline Anguyen92

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Re: How good of a drummer was Ringo Starr?
« Reply #37 on: October 08, 2019, 08:54:40 PM »
I mean Blackbird was just created by McCartney himself mainly with an acoustic guitar.  Great short and sweet song.

Offline Stadler

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Re: How good of a drummer was Ringo Starr?
« Reply #38 on: October 08, 2019, 09:38:56 PM »
I see him referred to as Macca quite often.  Weird.

But yeah, Paul and John were always playing around with different instruments and whatnot.  It's funny to reach the song by song breakdown of the White Album where you realize how many songs on that album didn't feature all four Beatles and how many were sometimes just one or two of the lads.

I re-watched my quasi-not-really-official copy of the "Let It Be" this past week, and the live version of "Get Back" is almost revelatory, in that it shows how much Lennon played and contributed to that song.  That rhythm part, with the signature lick in the chorus and the little "strum" at the end of the figure, is excellent and in my view makes the song. 

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: How good of a drummer was Ringo Starr?
« Reply #39 on: October 08, 2019, 11:16:44 PM »
Interesting segue... how good were the other three at their respective instruments?
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Offline Stadler

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Re: How good of a drummer was Ringo Starr?
« Reply #40 on: October 09, 2019, 08:55:59 AM »
Interesting segue... how good were the other three at their respective instruments?

McCartney is one of the best bass players that ever lived in my view, and he plays and sings wonderfully.   Ringo is Ringo.  Solid, unobtrusive, kind of like a referee in sports:  if you notice them that's not a good thing.   George... bear in mind I'm not the HUGEST George Harrison fan, but he looks lost.   Strumming rhythm guitar, and basically standing there looking at the other two as if he's struggling to follow along.  It's interesting, if you've ever seen the footage:  Paul, Ringo, and John are set up like a band on stage.   John and Paul are side by side, in front of Ringo and George is off to the side (on the right) facing the other three.  It's like he's sitting in with another band.   

(By the way, Billy Preston is there as well, set up behind Paul and stage right of Ringo.)

I tried to find footage on YooToob, but the only version I could find (framed with an old "television set") was NOT the footage from the copy of the movie I have and was, at times, badly out of synch.  Ity's fascinating to watch John play (especially after just seeing his son Sean with the "Claypool/Lennon Delirium") and for all the beef between the two, watching John and Paul look at each other with what can only be described as love. 

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: How good of a drummer was Ringo Starr?
« Reply #41 on: October 09, 2019, 11:37:39 AM »
Interesting segue... how good were the other three at their respective instruments?
If you are just talking about, on a technical level, they were all OK to pretty good, with McCartney definitely being on the highest level of any of the 4.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: How good of a drummer was Ringo Starr?
« Reply #42 on: October 09, 2019, 11:59:32 AM »
I took that in a different way; if you mean overall, and not just in that performance, then...

McCartney is in my view the greatest living pop/rock musician today.  I think his bass playing is transcendent, he could sing anything, and he's one of the greatest songwriters to ever live.

Lennon is an above average guitar player, who put the song and the idea first for most of his career.  But he's one of those guys, in a Jerry Garcia way, that I believe could do just about anything he wanted on guitar, it was just more a question of "what he wanted".

Harrison is, in my view, over-rated.  If we've considered Ringo to be "lucky" to have been in the Beatles, I consider Harrison even luckier.   He is an okay guitarist (on some of the early and mid-period stuff, you can actually hear him at the limits of struggling with some figures). Yeah, he wrote a couple good tunes, and I think he had the most lack-luster of the subsequent solo careers.    McCartney was ALL about the music.  Lennon was ALL about the bigger picture; the ideas, the context, the statement.   I think Starr was more in line with Lennon (albeit in a very very different way) and lived up to that in his own way (thus the "All-Star Band" thing that has been so successful).  I think Harrison was more in line with McCartney, but didn't live up to that in a way that I would have expected a former Beatle to have. 

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: How good of a drummer was Ringo Starr?
« Reply #43 on: October 09, 2019, 12:02:06 PM »
You have a more elevated opinion of McCartney than I do, but otherwise I largely agree with you.

Slightly unrelated, have you seen the film Yesterday?
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Online TAC

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Re: How good of a drummer was Ringo Starr?
« Reply #44 on: October 09, 2019, 12:52:30 PM »
Slightly unrelated, have you seen the film Yesterday?

would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline El Barto

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Re: How good of a drummer was Ringo Starr?
« Reply #45 on: October 09, 2019, 02:16:16 PM »
Reading through this thread, a lot of what's been said, particularly by Stada, could apply just as much to Nick Mason. In fact there's a real similarity to the bands' dynamics, with the only real outlier being Wright (by virtue of him being world class at his instrument).
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Offline Herrick

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Re: How good of a drummer was Ringo Starr?
« Reply #46 on: October 09, 2019, 04:28:45 PM »
He's a decent drummer, but remember, he wasn't even the best drummer in the Beatles.

There's a quote that's attributed to the bass player from U2. I'm not a U2 fan nor am I a Beatles fan but I think it's a good quote. It goes something like, "I may not be the best bass player in the world. I'm not even the best bass player in the band. But I am the bass player".
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: How good of a drummer was Ringo Starr?
« Reply #47 on: October 09, 2019, 07:34:04 PM »
I'm with hef on this one.  McCartney was the best instrumentalist of the four, but not really notable at all.  The greatness of the Beatles was in the songwriting, their innovation, and those voices, not in their playing. 

Offline Stadler

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Re: How good of a drummer was Ringo Starr?
« Reply #48 on: October 10, 2019, 06:31:59 AM »
I'm with hef on this one.  McCartney was the best instrumentalist of the four, but not really notable at all.  The greatness of the Beatles was in the songwriting, their innovation, and those voices, not in their playing.

Everything I've said is certainly debatable, and I only put it out there as my opinion. Except McCartney as a bass player.  I think that one goes beyond "just Stads rambling on".  There are too many others - including those who have dedicated their own lives to the instrument - that say the same thing. 

Offline KevShmev

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Re: How good of a drummer was Ringo Starr?
« Reply #49 on: October 10, 2019, 08:34:06 AM »
I'm with hef on this one.  McCartney was the best instrumentalist of the four, but not really notable at all.  The greatness of the Beatles was in the songwriting, their innovation, and those voices, not in their playing.

Everything I've said is certainly debatable, and I only put it out there as my opinion. Except McCartney as a bass player.  I think that one goes beyond "just Stads rambling on".  There are too many others - including those who have dedicated their own lives to the instrument - that say the same thing.

While that is true, how much of that is Beatles fans stroking a Beatle because, ya know, it's the Beatles?  I have seen tons of musicians over the years talk up Ringo Starr as this great drummer as well, so you have to take that with a grain of salt.  Don't get me wrong, I think McCartney is a good melodic bass player - songs like With a Little Help from My Friends, Penny Lane, Tomorrow Never Knows and Come Together do a good job at showing his ability to play a memorable bass line rather than just following along with the drum track - but I think it ends there.

Offline Stadler

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Re: How good of a drummer was Ringo Starr?
« Reply #50 on: October 10, 2019, 08:43:53 AM »
I'm with hef on this one.  McCartney was the best instrumentalist of the four, but not really notable at all.  The greatness of the Beatles was in the songwriting, their innovation, and those voices, not in their playing.

Everything I've said is certainly debatable, and I only put it out there as my opinion. Except McCartney as a bass player.  I think that one goes beyond "just Stads rambling on".  There are too many others - including those who have dedicated their own lives to the instrument - that say the same thing.

While that is true, how much of that is Beatles fans stroking a Beatle because, ya know, it's the Beatles?  I have seen tons of musicians over the years talk up Ringo Starr as this great drummer as well, so you have to take that with a grain of salt.  Don't get me wrong, I think McCartney is a good melodic bass player - songs like With a Little Help from My Friends, Penny Lane, Tomorrow Never Knows and Come Together do a good job at showing his ability to play a memorable bass line rather than just following along with the drum track - but I think it ends there.

Obviously, I can't answer that first question.  Not an unfair question, but unanswerable.   I can only say, though, that they have a sizable collection of songs where the bass is the "lead instrument"; not "solos" per se, but that carry the melody line of the song.  "Paperback Writer".  Its b-side, "Rain". "She's A Woman".  Not his song, but "Everybody's Got Something To Hide...", the songs you mentioned, "Come Together", and "Tomorrow Never Knows" (literally one chord - a C-chord - the entire song). And that approach - novel at the time - influenced every one from Chris Squire to Mike Rutherford to Tom Hamilton (who covered "Come Together", and who swiped it for "Sweet Emotion") to Noel Gallagher (I know he's not a bass player, but listen to "Who Feels Love?") to Gene Simmons (whose style - and he has a style, let's be fair here - is almost entirely "Paul McCartney").   

Offline Kwyjibo

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Re: How good of a drummer was Ringo Starr?
« Reply #51 on: October 10, 2019, 08:49:15 AM »
... I think McCartney is a good melodic bass player ...

I think that is the bottom line, he's not the groove monster and he's not the technical superstar but he has come up with some great melodic bass lines. For a solid bass player it's not hard to play those bass lines but it's a lot more difficult to come up with them. And that's where he shines and that's why people praise him imo.

And yes, he was in the Beatles so he must be the greatest.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: How good of a drummer was Ringo Starr?
« Reply #52 on: October 10, 2019, 09:26:04 AM »


Obviously, I can't answer that first question.  Not an unfair question, but unanswerable.   I can only say, though, that they have a sizable collection of songs where the bass is the "lead instrument"; not "solos" per se, but that carry the melody line of the song.  "Paperback Writer".  Its b-side, "Rain". "She's A Woman".  Not his song, but "Everybody's Got Something To Hide...", the songs you mentioned, "Come Together", and "Tomorrow Never Knows" (literally one chord - a C-chord - the entire song). And that approach - novel at the time - influenced every one from Chris Squire to Mike Rutherford to Tom Hamilton (who covered "Come Together", and who swiped it for "Sweet Emotion") to Noel Gallagher (I know he's not a bass player, but listen to "Who Feels Love?") to Gene Simmons (whose style - and he has a style, let's be fair here - is almost entirely "Paul McCartney").

To play devil's advocate, I think it is entirely possible that many of those guys were influenced by the Beatles' songs and innovation rather than their playing, and since they were playing songs by a band they loved, the style of the playing naturally became a part of their playing style as they got better and became professional musicians.   I am sure there are many drummers who would cite Charlie Watts as an influence simply because they loved the Rolling Stones and played their songs a ton growing up.  Plus, I am not always convinced the influential = great, just like I think you can be great without necessarily being very influential, but not sure that is a rabbit hole I want to go down... ;) :lol

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: How good of a drummer was Ringo Starr?
« Reply #53 on: October 10, 2019, 09:56:58 AM »
Yeah.  McCartney is no elite bass player.  He's a great songwriter and, above all, MELODY writer, and that certainly comes through in his playing.

But he's not a great bass player in the vein of Squire, Jamerson, Clarke, Pastorius, Claypool, or Wooten.  That's just not him.  But having said that, his playing probably influenced more people to pick up the bass or start a band than ANY of those guys.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: How good of a drummer was Ringo Starr?
« Reply #54 on: October 10, 2019, 10:14:53 AM »
Well I agree with Kev's point that "influential doesn't necessarily mean great", but I think it depends on what you value in a bass player.  I've been blessed, in that I've seen some of the greatest bass players in the rock world, at least if you believe the cognicenti.  I've seen Squire, Lee, Harris, Claypool...  I think there are multiple ways of saying "great".   Claypool isn't "great" in the same way that Squire is, for example.  Maybe we can separate into "writing" versus "playing", but isn't that the case with all those guys?   Is Squire legendary (probably my FAVORITE bass player) because his chops were unreplicable, or because he came up with cool bass parts to contrast Howe and Anderson and whoever?    Is Lee awesome because he's doing something technically improbable, or because he works well with Lifeson and Peart?   


Offline KevShmev

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Re: How good of a drummer was Ringo Starr?
« Reply #55 on: October 10, 2019, 11:03:32 AM »
Fair points.  I always say, chops mean nothing if you can't write something interesting, and I will definitely take a guy who limited chops who writes something interesting over the chops/not interesting guy.

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Re: How good of a drummer was Ringo Starr?
« Reply #56 on: October 10, 2019, 11:11:47 AM »
I'm with hef on this one.  McCartney was the best instrumentalist of the four, but not really notable at all.  The greatness of the Beatles was in the songwriting, their innovation, and those voices, not in their playing.

Everything I've said is certainly debatable, and I only put it out there as my opinion. Except McCartney as a bass player.  I think that one goes beyond "just Stads rambling on".  There are too many others - including those who have dedicated their own lives to the instrument - that say the same thing. 

Stadler, are you justifying something with "conventional wisdom"? :P
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Offline The Walrus

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Re: How good of a drummer was Ringo Starr?
« Reply #57 on: October 10, 2019, 11:22:14 AM »
I mean McCartney is a fine musician and songwriter but 'greatest living musician' is such hyperbolic praise of him imo that I can only shrug with some bemusement at the claim. Like, he's good, he's fine... but that's about it
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Offline Stadler

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Re: How good of a drummer was Ringo Starr?
« Reply #58 on: October 10, 2019, 11:59:38 AM »
I'm with hef on this one.  McCartney was the best instrumentalist of the four, but not really notable at all.  The greatness of the Beatles was in the songwriting, their innovation, and those voices, not in their playing.

Everything I've said is certainly debatable, and I only put it out there as my opinion. Except McCartney as a bass player.  I think that one goes beyond "just Stads rambling on".  There are too many others - including those who have dedicated their own lives to the instrument - that say the same thing. 

Stadler, are you justifying something with "conventional wisdom"? :P

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Offline Dublagent66

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Re: How good of a drummer was Ringo Starr?
« Reply #59 on: October 11, 2019, 02:53:42 PM »
I had an Alesis drum machine years ago that I named "Ringo".  It got the job done, but didn't count on any odd and elaborate time signatures.  :lol
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: How good of a drummer was Ringo Starr?
« Reply #60 on: October 14, 2019, 09:29:01 AM »
I had an Alesis drum machine years ago that I named "Ringo".  It got the job done, but didn't count on any odd and elaborate time signatures.  :lol
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