What made you happy today?

[lordxizor]

If someone steals your credit card number, you call your bank and they put a hold on the charge until it gets sorted out. You don't have to pay it. If someone steals your debit card and makes a purchase, it comes out of your checking account. You still file a fraud claim with your bank, but now you have to convince them to put your money back into your account due to the fraud. I'm not sure how nice banks are about that, but I'd much rather be the situation where I don't have to put my own money at risk due to the fraud until it gets sorted out.

[lordxizor]

Oops, double post

[wolfking]

That's fair.

[cramx3]

My philosophy is why pay now for something that I can pay for in as much as 53 days?  It's like a free short-term loan.

No offense mate, but I simply don't understand this line of thinking at all.  I must be missing something.

I can understand what you guys are saying regarding rewards.  I don't know if that's a thing over here but going back to the Costco discussion a while back in regards to rewards, I guess I just don't give enough of a shit to look into things like that.

Credit cards, at least here in the US, give you a small % of cash back, or points.  All depends on the card.  But I've got $1300 in cash back sitting on my chase credit card.  I can pull it out for that straight cash or use it for a bunch of other things.  It's worth it to use the cards if you can pay it off because in the end, it acts like them paying you to use it.  The catch is, don't hold a balance and pay interest otherwise you'll quickly lose the value being gained by just using the credit card.  I ONLY pay in credit cards unless I have to use cash for this reason.  My one card I mostly use gets 1.5% back on anything and 3% back on food or travel purchases.  It adds up over the course of a year on the stuff I'm going to buy anyway. 

Also Amazon gives 5% back on amazon purchases so I use that.  I have $100 bucks sitting there in credit I'll use eventually on something small for myself. 

[wolfking]

I don't think that's a thing over here.  I may do some giggling today.  Today shouldn't be too hectic.

[lordxizor]

Better than the 1-2% back that a lot of cards offer, many cards offer sign up bonuses. For example we're working on a card that will give us 80,000 points (worth $800-1200 depending on how you redeem them) for spending $4000 in the first 3 months. We put everything on it, get the bonus, and move on to the next card. Not all the bonuses are that large, but we've done 15 cards in the last 2.5 years and made over $8000. Plus you still get the 1-2% on your purchases as well. Tack on another $2500 from checking and savings account bonuses in the last 1.5 years and we've made some real money doing this. It all goes straight in our vacation fund.

[TAC]

I don't think that's a thing over here.  I may do some giggling today.  Today shouldn't be too hectic.

OK Kingshmegland.

[wolfking]

Damn you auto correct. 

[TAC]

 

[King Postwhore]

The worst burn when Tim burns you.

It's like he woke up from a nap and the first sentence cuts deep.

[TAC]

What's wrong with taking a nap? I took two of them today, and in fact...

That made me happy today!

[wolfking]

The worst burn when Tim burns you.

It's like he woke up from a nap and the first sentence cuts deep.

Oh yeah, I'm feeling that right now.

[jingle.boy]

My philosophy is why pay now for something that I can pay for in as much as 53 days?  It's like a free short-term loan.

No offense mate, but I simply don't understand this line of thinking at all.  I must be missing something.

None taken. You/I just have a different philosophy when it comes to spend / financial management.

See point #7 here - https://www.investopedia.com/articles/pf/10/credit-card-debit-card.asp

Plus, many banking plans in Canada don’t allow for unlimited debit transactions - my plan only allows for 25 monthly (including bill payments) then they start charging like 50 cents or so per transaction.  Between all my bill payments, I could only make a dozen or so purchases on debit per month without getting charged.

[TAC]

Yeah, Chad, that makes sense in general, but it's really only cents anyway.

[wolfking]

My philosophy is why pay now for something that I can pay for in as much as 53 days?  It's like a free short-term loan.

No offense mate, but I simply don't understand this line of thinking at all.  I must be missing something.

None taken. You/I just have a different philosophy when it comes to spend / financial management.

See point #7 here - https://www.investopedia.com/articles/pf/10/credit-card-debit-card.asp

Plus, many banking plans in Canada don’t allow for unlimited debit transactions - my plan only allows for 25 monthly (including bill payments) then they start charging like 50 cents or so per transaction.  Between all my bill payments, I could only make a dozen or so purchases on debit per month without getting charged.

Fair enough mate.  Again, I understand the theory behind it, I just don't personally find the time worthwhile for the rewards, but that's me.  The grace period makes sense, but it's worth fuck all really.

Looking around, it seems bonueses are a thing here, but the amount you have to spend to receive points, I would never ever get anywhere near.  I just don't buy anything unless it's absolutely essential.

[Cool Chris]

Better than the 1-2% back that a lot of cards offer, many cards offer sign up bonuses. For example we're working on a card that will give us 80,000 points (worth $800-1200 depending on how you redeem them) for spending $4000 in the first 3 months. We put everything on it, get the bonus, and move on to the next card. Not all the bonuses are that large, but we've done 15 cards in the last 2.5 years and made over $8000. Plus you still get the 1-2% on your purchases as well. Tack on another $2500 from checking and savings account bonuses in the last 1.5 years and we've made some real money doing this. It all goes straight in our vacation fund.

This is something that should be right up my alley (I think I could manage the bonuses/perks very well as you have done) but I haven't been able to pull the trigger. I have shopped deals/loyalty programs a couple times, but have not been able to pull the trigger. Part of the hang-up is that we don't tend to make a lot of big purchases to make a reward program worthwhile. I haven't had a CC in years and I don't know if my wife has ever had one.

[wolfking]

Better than the 1-2% back that a lot of cards offer, many cards offer sign up bonuses. For example we're working on a card that will give us 80,000 points (worth $800-1200 depending on how you redeem them) for spending $4000 in the first 3 months. We put everything on it, get the bonus, and move on to the next card. Not all the bonuses are that large, but we've done 15 cards in the last 2.5 years and made over $8000. Plus you still get the 1-2% on your purchases as well. Tack on another $2500 from checking and savings account bonuses in the last 1.5 years and we've made some real money doing this. It all goes straight in our vacation fund.

This is something that should be right up my alley (I think I could manage the bonuses/perks very well as you have done) but I haven't been able to pull the trigger. I have shopped deals/loyalty programs a couple times, but have not been able to pull the trigger. Part of the hang-up is that we don't tend to make a lot of big purchases to make a reward program worthwhile. I haven't had a CC in years and I don't know if my wife has ever had one.

Exactly.  If you ask me, unless you purchase things frequently, I see it as a borderline marketing scam for people that are frugal with money.  It's like going to the supermarket and buying something you'd never ever buy just because it's on sale 2 for 1 or something.

People would end up spending more just to get something free when they could have brought that product for less without getting the crap you didn't need in the first place.

[Evermind]

I'm with Kade. No interest in credit cards whatsoever. I've got cash back on my debit card which I can spend in a grocery store I frequent, and that's good enough for me.

The limited amount of transactions Chad mentioned pisses me off. I guess I would've just used cash everywhere in that case.

[wolfking]

I'm with Kade. No interest in credit cards whatsoever. I've got cash back on my debit card which I can spend in a grocery store I frequent, and that's good enough for me.

The limited amount of transactions Chad mentioned pisses me off. I guess I would've just used cash everywhere in that case.

What do you mean here exactly mate?

Yeah, I have unlimited transactions with my current account, but I'm in the same boat, I use cash wherever I can.  I'm just old school like that.  I'll actually take out a budgeted chunk of cash I need for the weekend for what I need (fuel, groceries, chemist supplies, cd's, supplements).  I budget myself myself and make sure I don't go over what I've taken out.  I'll make sure I get the essentials and spend the rest on the non essentials.  If there's nothing I need on a weekend, the extra I don't spend I can add to the next weekend, or just take less money out the next week.  I take the same amount out each week. I can save a LOT of money in a short period of time.

[Evermind]

I get something like 1% or 2% of all the money I spent using the card back as points I can spend in a certain grocery store chain. It's convenient as one of these stores is near my home.

[wolfking]

I get something like 1% or 2% of all the money I spent using the card back as points I can spend in a certain grocery store chain. It's convenient as one of these stores is near my home.

Now we're talking.  Money back to use a grocery store is definitely my kind of thing.

[jingle.boy]

I get something like 1% or 2% of all the money I spent using the card back as points I can spend in a certain grocery store chain. It's convenient as one of these stores is near my home.

Now we're talking.  Money back to use a grocery store is definitely my kind of thing.

Most credit card rewards programs will give you cash-back to use anywhere for anything.

[The Walrus]

There's a capital one silver something offer on the dining room table that gives 1.5% back. Thought about taking it up just for that

[cramx3]

Better than the 1-2% back that a lot of cards offer, many cards offer sign up bonuses. For example we're working on a card that will give us 80,000 points (worth $800-1200 depending on how you redeem them) for spending $4000 in the first 3 months. We put everything on it, get the bonus, and move on to the next card. Not all the bonuses are that large, but we've done 15 cards in the last 2.5 years and made over $8000. Plus you still get the 1-2% on your purchases as well. Tack on another $2500 from checking and savings account bonuses in the last 1.5 years and we've made some real money doing this. It all goes straight in our vacation fund.

Doesn't this ruin your credit score though?  My understanding was closing and opening credit cards is not good to do often.

I get something like 1% or 2% of all the money I spent using the card back as points I can spend in a certain grocery store chain. It's convenient as one of these stores is near my home.

Now we're talking.  Money back to use a grocery store is definitely my kind of thing.

This is exactly what we've been talking about though that you were shooting down the idea of though.  Evermind is more specific to groceries, but it doesn't need to be.  Can be whatever you spend money on, whether that's dining out, gas for your car, vacations or just buying CDs.  You get a % back (usually between 1 and 2) and you can use that cash back for whatever you want. 

Let's say your cash in pocket budget for the week is $100.  You can still hold yourself to this budget on a credit card and get that 1% back.  So you spend the same $100 but you now have $1 extra in your account afterwards.  Do the math for the rest of the year, with 52 weeks, that's $52 dollars you earned for doing the same thing you were already doing at no cost to you.  It's not much but spending $100 a week isn't much either.  Some people have families to feed and that cash back really adds up.

I used to be able to expense all my work travel on my credit card, that was awesome.  Something like 20-30 thousand a year that I would earn cash back on without spending any of my own money and my credit card would give 5% back on travel expenses.  Sucks they made us get corporate cards now.

[Evermind]

Better than the 1-2% back that a lot of cards offer, many cards offer sign up bonuses. For example we're working on a card that will give us 80,000 points (worth $800-1200 depending on how you redeem them) for spending $4000 in the first 3 months. We put everything on it, get the bonus, and move on to the next card. Not all the bonuses are that large, but we've done 15 cards in the last 2.5 years and made over $8000. Plus you still get the 1-2% on your purchases as well. Tack on another $2500 from checking and savings account bonuses in the last 1.5 years and we've made some real money doing this. It all goes straight in our vacation fund.

Doesn't this ruin your credit score though?  My understanding was closing and opening credit cards is not good to do often.

I get something like 1% or 2% of all the money I spent using the card back as points I can spend in a certain grocery store chain. It's convenient as one of these stores is near my home.

Now we're talking.  Money back to use a grocery store is definitely my kind of thing.

Evermind is more specific to groceries, but it doesn't need to be.

Yeah, but it's important to me it's debit, not credit, and that was pretty much the only option with cash back for debit (which I love, don't get me wrong, it's convenient as hell) I don't know, I see the positives of credit cards (the link Chad provided was good), but as my family was really poor in 90s it was basically drilled into me not to get into any kind of debt. That's just how I was raised. I avoid debt (which is essentially what credit cards are, in my mind) like plague even if I know I can pay it off.

We have a very small store one minute away from my home that doesn't even accept cards. One day I went in and bought like a loaf of bread and something else, and I had to pay like, say, $1.10. I had a $1 note and a $10 note. Offered both and the cashier picked $1 and said I can bring the 10 pennies later so they didn't need to bother giving me all the change. I went home, grabbed 10 pennies, walked back and paid them as soon as I could.

I don't know if I'll ever use a credit card unless there's no other option.

[cramx3]

Well, is it really debt if you've never paid interest?  I mean, I guess so, but it's kind of a mind game in some ways.  Still need to manage your budget in the end.  Here in the US, there's actually slowly being a trend to push to ONLY using credit/debit cards.  In many ways, I find that disturbing but also, I find it super convienent in many ways to just swipe as well.  My credit card can show me all the statistics of my spending.  It's nice, and I have protection from them as well in case I get screwed on something. 

At the end of the day, to each their own, but if you know how to budget and handle your money, you are getting the most out of it by using a credit card over paying cash.  The problem is many people can't figure out that first part.

[lordxizor]

Better than the 1-2% back that a lot of cards offer, many cards offer sign up bonuses. For example we're working on a card that will give us 80,000 points (worth $800-1200 depending on how you redeem them) for spending $4000 in the first 3 months. We put everything on it, get the bonus, and move on to the next card. Not all the bonuses are that large, but we've done 15 cards in the last 2.5 years and made over $8000. Plus you still get the 1-2% on your purchases as well. Tack on another $2500 from checking and savings account bonuses in the last 1.5 years and we've made some real money doing this. It all goes straight in our vacation fund.

This is something that should be right up my alley (I think I could manage the bonuses/perks very well as you have done) but I haven't been able to pull the trigger. I have shopped deals/loyalty programs a couple times, but have not been able to pull the trigger. Part of the hang-up is that we don't tend to make a lot of big purchases to make a reward program worthwhile. I haven't had a CC in years and I don't know if my wife has ever had one.

You don't need to make big purchases, you just need to make all of your purchases on the card. If you spend $1000 a month or more on all of your expenses (gas, groceries, household stuff, clothing, restaurants, etc) that can be put on a card (so, not your rent or mortgage) you can easily make this work. If you spend less than that it will be harder to do.

Exactly.  If you ask me, unless you purchase things frequently, I see it as a borderline marketing scam for people that are frugal with money.  It's like going to the supermarket and buying something you'd never ever buy just because it's on sale 2 for 1 or something.

People would end up spending more just to get something free when they could have brought that product for less without getting the crap you didn't need in the first place.

This is exactly why the credit card companies offer these bonuses. Because they know that the average person is going to spend more money and not pay it off right away. The CC company is going to make money despite the bonus off most people. My trick is only for the disciplined people who are only going to buy what they otherwise would have bought and that pay off their CC in full every month. It's not for everyone obviously.

Doesn't this ruin your credit score though?  My understanding was closing and opening credit cards is not good to do often.

It certainly dings it a little bit, but my credit score is between 750-780 depending on which one you look at, which is good enough to get the best rates on auto or home loan. I recently refi'ed my house and got an auto loan and was considered excellent credit score for both.

[lordxizor]

I joined a personal finance Facebook group yesterday since it's a passion of mine and I'm working toward becoming a personal finance coach to help people meet their money goals. It's associated with Dave Ramsey's group for anyone who knows who that is. In less than 24 hours I've had three post removed and they blocked me from commenting for the next few days. All because I dare to offer advice that doesn't completely line up with they way they advise people. It's all very common advice by other financial planners, but Ramsey does things a little different. I don't know why, but this really made my day.

[Evermind]

Well, is it really debt if you've never paid interest?

Absolutely a debt, yes.

I loaned my friend 100k rubles (not a big deal in US money, ~$1.2-1.3k, but it's more than my monthly paycheck even now, and was 2x more than my monthly paycheck back then) for a year with no interest obviously. There was never any doubt that it was a debt. Perhaps it's a cultural difference.

Edit: I'm all in for using cards instead of cash, don't get me wrong. But as long as I can use debit card instead of credit, I'm going to do so.

[cramx3]

Well, is it really debt if you've never paid interest?

Absolutely a debt, yes.

I loaned my friend 100k rubles (not a big deal in US money, ~$1.2-1.3k, but it's more than my monthly paycheck even now, and was 2x more than my monthly paycheck back then) for a year with no interest obviously. There was never any doubt that it was a debt. Perhaps it's a cultural difference.

Edit: I'm all in for using cards instead of cash, don't get me wrong. But as long as I can use debit card instead of credit, I'm going to do so.

I mean, I totally agree but interest free debt is a bit different than what many people often call credit card debt because that's high interest on those, so if you pay your credit card every month, while yes it is debt, it isn't really anything negative because you don't have to pay any interest, but if you don't pay it all off wooof you are putting yourself in a bad financial situation. 

[wolfking]

I get something like 1% or 2% of all the money I spent using the card back as points I can spend in a certain grocery store chain. It's convenient as one of these stores is near my home.

Now we're talking.  Money back to use a grocery store is definitely my kind of thing.

This is exactly what we've been talking about though that you were shooting down the idea of though.  Evermind is more specific to groceries, but it doesn't need to be.  Can be whatever you spend money on, whether that's dining out, gas for your car, vacations or just buying CDs.  You get a % back (usually between 1 and 2) and you can use that cash back for whatever you want. 

I liked the idea because he was getting the bonus using his debit card, not a credit card.

[wolfking]

Well, is it really debt if you've never paid interest?

Absolutely a debt, yes.

I loaned my friend 100k rubles (not a big deal in US money, ~$1.2-1.3k, but it's more than my monthly paycheck even now, and was 2x more than my monthly paycheck back then) for a year with no interest obviously. There was never any doubt that it was a debt. Perhaps it's a cultural difference.

Edit: I'm all in for using cards instead of cash, don't get me wrong. But as long as I can use debit card instead of credit, I'm going to do so.

I mean, I totally agree but interest free debt is a bit different than what many people often call credit card debt because that's high interest on those, so if you pay your credit card every month, while yes it is debt, it isn't really anything negative because you don't have to pay any interest, but if you don't pay it all off wooof you are putting yourself in a bad financial situation.

You're right and I agree with what you say here, I just prefer to not own a credit card and use my own money.  Looking at some of the offers and bonuses, it's not worth it for me. 

[wolfking]

Exactly.  If you ask me, unless you purchase things frequently, I see it as a borderline marketing scam for people that are frugal with money.  It's like going to the supermarket and buying something you'd never ever buy just because it's on sale 2 for 1 or something.

People would end up spending more just to get something free when they could have brought that product for less without getting the crap you didn't need in the first place.

This is exactly why the credit card companies offer these bonuses. Because they know that the average person is going to spend more money and not pay it off right away. The CC company is going to make money despite the bonus off most people. My trick is only for the disciplined people who are only going to buy what they otherwise would have bought and that pay off their CC in full every month. It's not for everyone obviously.

Yeah, indeed.  Although over here, the ones I was looking at you need to spend a certain amount per month to even get these bonuses.  That's where it wouldn't be beneficial.  If there were no limit (and maybe there is some if I keep looking) then I'd be more interested. 

[lordxizor]

Exactly.  If you ask me, unless you purchase things frequently, I see it as a borderline marketing scam for people that are frugal with money.  It's like going to the supermarket and buying something you'd never ever buy just because it's on sale 2 for 1 or something.

People would end up spending more just to get something free when they could have brought that product for less without getting the crap you didn't need in the first place.

This is exactly why the credit card companies offer these bonuses. Because they know that the average person is going to spend more money and not pay it off right away. The CC company is going to make money despite the bonus off most people. My trick is only for the disciplined people who are only going to buy what they otherwise would have bought and that pay off their CC in full every month. It's not for everyone obviously.

Yeah, indeed.  Although over here, the ones I was looking at you need to spend a certain amount per month to even get these bonuses.  That's where it wouldn't be beneficial.  If there were no limit (and maybe there is some if I keep looking) then I'd be more interested. 

Yeah if you're not going to spend that much it's not worth it obviously. With a family of 5, we spend $2000+ a month on credit cards, so it's easy for us to hit the bonuses. We pay off everything at the end of the month and never pay a penny in interest.

[wolfking]

Exactly.  If you ask me, unless you purchase things frequently, I see it as a borderline marketing scam for people that are frugal with money.  It's like going to the supermarket and buying something you'd never ever buy just because it's on sale 2 for 1 or something.

People would end up spending more just to get something free when they could have brought that product for less without getting the crap you didn't need in the first place.

This is exactly why the credit card companies offer these bonuses. Because they know that the average person is going to spend more money and not pay it off right away. The CC company is going to make money despite the bonus off most people. My trick is only for the disciplined people who are only going to buy what they otherwise would have bought and that pay off their CC in full every month. It's not for everyone obviously.

Yeah, indeed.  Although over here, the ones I was looking at you need to spend a certain amount per month to even get these bonuses.  That's where it wouldn't be beneficial.  If there were no limit (and maybe there is some if I keep looking) then I'd be more interested. 

Yeah if you're not going to spend that much it's not worth it obviously. With a family of 5, we spend $2000+ a month on credit cards, so it's easy for us to hit the bonuses. We pay off everything at the end of the month and never pay a penny in interest.

Perfect scenario mate.  Obviously, as you said, you need to be in touch and in control with your finances and spending.  With just two of us, it's not worth it, but having a family I can understand would be a whole new ballgame.