Author Topic: MP on not releasing pro-filmed Shattered Fortress: "I don't wanna rock the boat"  (Read 5805 times)

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Offline DTA

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I've heard multiple people say DT will never play the 12 Step Suite all the way through live.

I personally believe, and hope, they will.

I don’t. It’s 5 extremely average songs.

Though I do love TDS.

I feel the same. I feel bad for the rest DT that they had to mine this concept for 5 albums in a row and I can't imagine they have any desire to play it in its entirety. It's just not a piece of music that works as one cohesive piece.

Offline Max Kuehnau

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I've heard multiple people say DT will never play the 12 Step Suite all the way through live.

I personally believe, and hope, they will.

I don’t. It’s 5 extremely average songs.

Though I do love TDS.

I feel the same. I feel bad for the rest DT that they had to mine this concept for 5 albums in a row and I can't imagine they have any desire to play it in its entirety. It's just not a piece of music that works as one cohesive piece.
although to be as fair as possible, TDS and TSF (and maybe TSF) may be cohesive in and of themselves and on their own (maybe not necessarily in the context of all five pieces in the suite) I enjoyed TSF quite a bit when DT played it during 2014 tour anyway. That being said, I wouldn't buy a Shattered Fortress recording. (I'm just offering an opinion, sorry if that derailed the thread)
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Offline Madman Shepherd

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Realistically, How well would something like this sell anyway?

It would be an instant buy for me.

I think it would be an instant buy for a lot of hardcore fans.

It would be an instant buy for me. I'd even pay twice as much if they replaced Eric Gillette's vocals with somebody else.  Actually...literally anybody else. Mike himself, Barney from Napalm Death, Chris Collins...

Online pg1067

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I've heard multiple people say DT will never play the 12 Step Suite all the way through live.

I personally believe, and hope, they will.

I don’t. It’s 5 4 extremely average songs and DT's worst song ever.


ftfy
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Offline Peter Mc

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Funny how Mike yo-yos between wanting to move on from DT and then discussing releasing an entire live album of DT cover songs. That’s not me having a go at him, I’m sure that’s just genuinely how his feelings constantly change. I still think he’d go back to DT in a heartbeat if asked but they appear to be doing just fine without him so don’t see any immediate prospect of that happening unless they were maybe deciding to call it a day and got him back for the final album and farewell tour.

As for DT ever doing the 12 Steps thing in it’s entirety, that’s not a show I’d look forward to. Find those songs on the whole to be all very similar dark sludgy overly long songs. Not my favourite DT songs or even close. Maybe it would come across better live but it’s not something that I’m holding out any hope for even if Portnoy did return to the band. Shattered Fortress was easily the low point of the AFTR show that I saw but I would like to see The Glass Prison given an airing at some point.

Online El Barto

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Me? I was at the show in NY, and while it was a great event and I had a lot of fun (met up with some forum-ers to boot), but I'm not really sold on the Haken guys so for me it wasn't like seeing The Wall recreated or anything epic like that.   I'm not a guaranteed buyer on that, for sure.
For my part, I was way in the back and would love an opportunity to see how the Haken guys really did. I could hear it and I could see most of it, but I didn't get to really appreciate it. I'd love to see a pro-shot release.


This really surprises me. TSF thing I can sort of understand. I reckon he's just trying not to rock the boat. If he's editing out songs he and DS have every right to perform from an otherwise unique show it sounds like he needs to stand up for himself a bit more. Including HK/LitS should have been a really straight forward thing.

I feel the same. I feel bad for the rest DT that they had to mine this concept for 5 albums in a row and I can't imagine they have any desire to play it in its entirety. It's just not a piece of music that works as one cohesive piece.
I probably would have said the same thing before seeing the show. It worked together quite well.

Also, somebody pointed out that it's more than just the five guys in the band, but even those five guys might differ on how they think this should play out. Based on my longstanding assumption about the interpersonal dynamics involved, it wouldn't surprise me if MP's "not rocking the boat" is about not putting his friends in the middle of a hostile situation. I honestly can't see how DT has anything to lose by letting him do his thing, but I could see how somebody with the band might take an obstructive stance based largely on "yeah, fuck that guy, eh." If he has reason to expect some pushback then steering clear is honestly the classy move.
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Online gborland

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I've heard multiple people say DT will never play the 12 Step Suite all the way through live.

I personally believe, and hope, they will.

I hope they don't. The 12 step suite is the most boring and repetitive part of their entire repertoire. It's basically one riff dragged out across five albums.
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Online Mladen

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I'm confident they don't feel any emotional attachment to the songs as a suite. It's more of Mike's thing. The songs will be played individually, but I'm certain the entire streak won't.

Online MirrorMask

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My biggest letdown was that they said all along it was meant to be played as one piece, but when they did it they stopped between This Dying Soul and The Root of All Evil, using the intro of the latter.

I completely get that they're human and that they can't pass out of exhaustion in playing 30 minutes straight of heavy fast music, but if the masterplan was to connect the songs and the end of TDS is so evidently made to lead directly into the "real" start of Root, why didn't they do it? it's a bit naive to plan five parts to make up a "single giant song" only to realize later "mh, it's too much fast stuff in a row, we have to breathe".
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Online Mladen

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Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I also think This dying soul and The Root of all evil are in different tuning. There needs to be space in between, so that JP and JM can change instruments.

Offline Lonk

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Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I also think This dying soul and The Root of all evil are in different tuning. There needs to be space in between, so that JP and JM can change instruments.

TDS, TGP and TSF are on 7 string standard, Root of all evil is on Eb standard (6 string guitar) and Repentance is on 6 string standard. I think.
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Offline Dreamdrummer

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I went to the TSF show in Tilburg, with low expectations.
As a DT fan and a drummer myself, MP is one of my drum-heroes.
But the thought of this music without the rest of DT, especially JP though, didn't felt right.

But when they started Overture 1928, it hit me in the guts.
I literally had tears in my eyes when the song kicked in.
It felt like coming home or something.

It was an amazing night.
Eric filled JP’s shoes like a boss and the Haken guys did an awesome job too.

I must admit…
I saw DT a couple of times with MM. (who is also a drumgod to me!)
But the TSF show was one of the best musical nights I experienced till this day.

So I would buy the DVD, but probably only watch it on Youtube :biggrin:

As for the comments on MP's intentions on "not rocking the boat".
I have no idea what the DT guys would think of it.
I suspect there is more going on behind closed doors on a legal or management-level.

And we as fans, can only guess and make assumptions.

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Offline gzarruk

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Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I also think This dying soul and The Root of all evil are in different tuning. There needs to be space in between, so that JP and JM can change instruments.

TDS, TGP and TSF are on 7 string standard, Root of all evil is on Eb standard (6 string guitar) and Repentance is on 6 string standard. I think.

Repentance is played on a 7 string too, TROAE is the only one that would require a different tuning.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline NoFred

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My biggest letdown was that they said all along it was meant to be played as one piece, but when they did it they stopped between This Dying Soul and The Root of All Evil, using the intro of the latter.

I completely get that they're human and that they can't pass out of exhaustion in playing 30 minutes straight of heavy fast music, but if the masterplan was to connect the songs and the end of TDS is so evidently made to lead directly into the "real" start of Root, why didn't they do it? it's a bit naive to plan five parts to make up a "single giant song" only to realize later "mh, it's too much fast stuff in a row, we have to breathe".

Hen did a reddit AMA a few days ago and called out TGP alone as a real endurance test.

ETA quote: “Glass Prison was particularly challenging. It's real endurance test. It's just constant intense low end riffage for 12 minutes or some which is a bit of a workout for both hands. The shred run at the end of This Dying Soul was pretty tricky too.”

Offline Herrick

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Funny how Mike yo-yos between wanting to move on from DT and then discussing releasing an entire live album of DT cover songs. That’s not me having a go at him, I’m sure that’s just genuinely how his feelings constantly change.

Well, he was asked about it in an interview.
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Offline robwebster

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I sort of feel like YouTube is exactly the right medium not just for TSF but for This Kind of Thing™ in general these days.

I think concert DVDs are in a really weird place in that they're something that a few fans really want but they notoriously don't get much return on investment any more, so stuff like - for e.g. The Astonishing live - ends up collecting dust on a shelf somewhere.

That said, I think we're now in a place where you can put together a relatively low effort package and release it through YouTube on a shoestring. I don't think anyone would mind particularly if The Astonishing wasn't correctly colour graded, or if the audio was soundboard quality. I'm sure a few grumpy people would be upset that they're not getting a 5.1 surround sound mix, and people would definitely be wistful for the days of commentaries and bonus features, but right now it feels kind of an underexplored option, and a sensible compromise if you're not able to put out the full packages any more. You could even monetise it!

I feel like this fits the Shattered Fortress stuff quite nicely. There are a million cover bands on YouTube, and I believe YouTube's set up to reimburse the copyright holder (simplifying massively here - I know the system is a bit of a ballache!) so it feels like DT shouldn't *really* have a major objection - although I accept I'm probably being a little naive with regards to performance and publicity rights.

On a related note - I am fully on this train for Ytse Jam Records, too. In the early 2000s it was an incredibly cool idea with a slightly rough execution just due to the rigamarole of shipping internationally. Sharing and selling bootlegs, making ofs, etc etc has become massively massively easier since the YJR days and I think it'd reach a much broader audience if they resurrected it as a digital purchase or streaming.

Online MirrorMask

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I think concert DVDs are in a really weird place in that they're something that a few fans really want but they notoriously don't get much return on investment any more, so stuff like - for e.g. The Astonishing live - ends up collecting dust on a shelf somewhere.

My main issues with live DVDs is that they rarely hold returnings value. I watch the show, enjoy it, and then I rarely watch it again. I mean, there's only so many times you can watch a show that's always the same, even if the band plays your town and, say, you get a free ticket - with the DVD you're not even there, you're watching a recorded performance.... there's only so many times you can enjoy that before, as you said, the DVD collects dust on a shelf.

I agree when you say that YouTube should be the way to go in the future, especially in an era when live albums and live shows aren't a special thing anymore. Heck, YouTube is filled anyway with live streams from major festivals....

Just to make a concrete example - as I was typing about streaming from festivals I wondered "Mh, do they still have online Maiden's performance at Wacken 2016, which I saw in real time?".... well, they do: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUqoSIKyCb4

Why should I buy a (non existent) "Live Book of Souls tour" from Iron Maiden when I can watch it for free on YouTube?
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Online cramx3

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IM did put their last "live album" on youtube for free, Gojira did as well (it's awesome).  That might be the future of pro made live concert videos, but I'd rather have a blu-ray in significantly better sound and visual quality.  Also, I consistently go back and watch my favorite concert DVDs (Flight 666, En Vivo, Retinal Circus, One Cold Winters Night...) on my big screen with surround sound.

Offline bill1971

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I think concert DVDs are in a really weird place in that they're something that a few fans really want but they notoriously don't get much return on investment any more, so stuff like - for e.g. The Astonishing live - ends up collecting dust on a shelf somewhere.

My main issues with live DVDs is that they rarely hold returnings value. I watch the show, enjoy it, and then I rarely watch it again. I mean, there's only so many times you can watch a show that's always the same, even if the band plays your town and, say, you get a free ticket - with the DVD you're not even there, you're watching a recorded performance.... there's only so many times you can enjoy that before, as you said, the DVD collects dust on a shelf.

I agree when you say that YouTube should be the way to go in the future, especially in an era when live albums and live shows aren't a special thing anymore. Heck, YouTube is filled anyway with live streams from major festivals....

Just to make a concrete example - as I was typing about streaming from festivals I wondered "Mh, do they still have online Maiden's performance at Wacken 2016, which I saw in real time?".... well, they do: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUqoSIKyCb4

Why should I buy a (non existent) "Live Book of Souls tour" from Iron Maiden when I can watch it for free on YouTube?

I am the same way, I could not wait until the R40 DVD! I watched it and haven't watched it since. That being said I have watched a few songs here and there on You Tube especially the one I was at.

Online Chino

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I'd like to see the concert on Youtube, but have a blu-ray release for the hardcore fans with all of the BTS stuff.