Is Dream Theater's current approach incompatible with the social media age?

[The Curious Orange]

Forums like this are essential - the quality of conversation, discussion and debate that you get on this sort of forum is totally different to what you get on social media.
This place needs to stay - DTF for Ever!

[MirrorMask]

I'm not-young enough to have lived in that time when internet was already widespread, but social media's age was yet to come, so I lived through the "golden era" of forums so to speak. Evermind earlier mentioned the Blind Guardian forum, heck, I cyber-lived there for YEARS, met many friends both italian and foreigner and some of them are still friends (or at worst, Facebook friends) and all the time I've been to Germany, be it festivals or visits, it was because of people of the forum.

So I'm a big fan of forums and as someone else above said, they provide an intimacy that big social media pages don't have. I think that is true for both fans and the artists themselves - say that Petrucci one day has some spare time, he'd get a much better understanding of what the fans active online are thinking if he'd browse the forums rather than check a random FB post where, regardless of the content of the post, half the comments are "When are you gonna tour my backyard" posts anyway.

Facebook is great and all but, as long as you enter a small group, you can't really connect with other people the way a forum provides. I follow many bands and I can't even name ONE person that made me think "Ah, cool, this guy / girls has tastes similar to mine" or "I remember his/her post from the other day".

I hope too this forum stays for a long time, and I hope in general that forums will have a resurgence. They're by far the best way to build an online community.

[H2]

I'm not sure this forum will die. I think as long as DT is around, people will come to this forum for the deepest, most serious, most informed DT discussion.

However, I would make a stab at an explanation for the dwindling numbers. I would guess that people want to come here to talk about DT primarily and prog/other music secondarily, but less and less I see people wanting to come here to talk about general stuff. Speaking for myself, I don't check the P/R and General Discussion sides pretty much at all these days. I go to Reddit for mostly everything. but I come here for Dream Theater. I'm on a few other forums like this one for things that are very topic-specific, but I wouldn't bother going there for any reason other than for that specific topic. There is a DT subreddit, but it's filled with a bunch of n00bs and filthy casuals. DTF still fills the elitist DT-fan niche. The diehards that want to analyze all the lyrics and compile setlists and talk about random DT facts in depth still need a place to go, and Reddit for whatever reason has not been the place for that.

So I'm guessing you'll continue to have dwindling numbers, but that's no problem because an elitist core will always stick around.

[geeeemo]

I'm not sure this forum will die. I think as long as DT is around, people will come to this forum for the deepest, most serious, most informed DT discussion.

However, I would make a stab at an explanation for the dwindling numbers. I would guess that people want to come here to talk about DT primarily and prog/other music secondarily, but less and less I see people wanting to come here to talk about general stuff. Speaking for myself, I don't check the P/R and General Discussion sides pretty much at all these days. I go to Reddit for mostly everything. but I come here for Dream Theater. I'm on a few other forums like this one for things that are very topic-specific, but I wouldn't bother going there for any reason other than for that specific topic. There is a DT subreddit, but it's filled with a bunch of n00bs and filthy casuals. DTF still fills the elitist DT-fan niche. The diehards that want to analyze all the lyrics and compile setlists and talk about random DT facts in depth still need a place to go, and Reddit for whatever reason has not been the place for that.

So I'm guessing you'll continue to have dwindling numbers, but that's no problem because an elitist core will always stick around.

I pretty much only spend time in the Dream Theater area. On occasion, will glance at the other areas. I see some interesting stuff, but dont have time to get into all of it.

[Architeuthis]

This is by far the best place/ forum I've been a part of. What I like about it way over social media, is that people are way more respectful to each other and have civilized discussions about pretty much any subject.
 It's the most informative about what DT is up to, plus info and discussions about other bands that you don't find on social media. I'm also a big Rush, Yes, Maiden, and Symphony X fan,  so I need to look no further than here to find the latest and greatest on them.
There are a lot of intelligent informed people on here where I enjoy reading their posts whether I agree or not. So yes, I appreciate this place as an escape from everyday life and it's nice to be able to openly discuss Dream Theater. I don't get that opportunity very often where I live..
 The only thing that surprises me a bit is that the "Musician's" section doesn't get more frequented. It's all good though!   

[Grappler]

This is by far the best place/ forum I've been a part of. What I like about it way over social media, is that people are way more respectful to each other and have civilized discussions about pretty much any subject.

I agree with this - it seems like people manage to be respectful and follow the rules better than on Facebook.  The music/community groups I'm in on Facebook devolve into so much drama time and time again.  I prefer online forums to social media groups for that reason.  I'm just becoming an old fogie that discovered online forums 20 years ago and really dislike how people treat each other through social media.  I don't see this forum disappearing any time soon as long as the regular traffic continues to flow.  Maybe the DT section doesn't get much activity lately, but it will when the band does something noteworthy.  The rest of the forum tends to see a good amount of posts.

And for what it's worth Bosk - we're both friends with someone that also ran a forum that was dedicated to a particular band.  There was the regular day to day traffic, and then any band activity would drive traffic to the forum at various points - album releases, a tour, or band drama.  That's not atypical and I don't think it's anything to worry about.

[goo-goo]

This is by far the best place/ forum I've been a part of. What I like about it way over social media, is that people are way more respectful to each other and have civilized discussions about pretty much any subject.
 It's the most informative about what DT is up to, plus info and discussions about other bands that you don't find on social media. I'm also a big Rush, Yes, Maiden, and Symphony X fan,  so I need to look no further than here to find the latest and greatest on them.
There are a lot of intelligent informed people on here where I enjoy reading their posts whether I agree or not. So yes, I appreciate this place as an escape from everyday life and it's nice to be able to openly discuss Dream Theater. I don't get that opportunity very often where I live..
 The only thing that surprises me a bit is that the "Musician's" section doesn't get more frequented. It's all good though!   

Pretty much this.

Would totally be disappointed if this forum disappears. I have discovered great music because of this. Haven't had the pleasure of meeting anyone from here yet but I know this will happen at some point at a DT show.

[Nekov]

I'm in the same boat as some folks here. I don't come to the DT side much lately but I am a regular on GMD and GD, and usually read P&R. I love the community, I have tons of fun here and if this forum didn't exist I would have a hard time killing time while I'm bored at work.
Most of the music that I listen to nowadays has come to me directly or indirectly through this forum. I would very much like to keep that going for as long as possible 

[Peter Mc]

I think message boards like this are probably a little old fashioned in these days of social media but I enjoy coming here and the discussions we have. I think it’s only natural that things quieten down when there is nothing new to discuss and ramp up ahead of a new release. I don’t think this is purely down to the lack of Mike Portnoy. His own forum got less and less busy and was eventually closed down. This was in part due to negative comments on there but he also accepted that forums like this saw much less traffic and were much less useful as a promotional tool in the age of social media.

I echo others in hoping the forum stays around for as long as possible as twitter discussions are often not the healthiest and I prefer being able to expand on things rather than being restricted to a set number of characters. This remains my number one choice for DT news.

[Loggins]

Having been to social media, removed myself from it, and predicted the trend that social media finally came to (the theft of privacy, lies, manipulation, etc).... I like forums. They're more personal, and less likely to be abused. That's a big plus for me. It is old school, but it's a group of people centered around a topic, instead of an ad delivery platform of many topics.

As far as bands go, I think social media is marketing. New bands need it more. Those that need it less tend to rise and fall with the albums. It's a natural cycle that I much prefer than the artificially constant, in-your-face-ness of advertising. If DT puts out an album I'll buy it. Period. I don't have to be convinced. Same with some other bands and authors. They've earned the right to chill out during the in between moments.

[Dave_Manchester]

Forums like this will probably end soon, and I'll miss them very much when they do. I don't participate on social media because it's not suited to the way I write things and the kinds of discussions I want to have. This place and one other are the extent of my online posting. I like being able to set out a piece of writing without concern for word limits or staying within the boundaries of what isn't at risk of being mocked (I've recently quit the P/R subforum on here because even here that has now been lost, but the other 2 subforums I visit on here - Dream Theater and General Music - are interesting and fun). Forums like this are really valuable to people like me, who live very far away from their native countries and rely on these types of boards to keep in touch with people who share a passion for music and the sharing of ideas. I think that 5 or so years from now we'll all have been forced, by design, to communicate with each other in 140-characters or less, and I dread that day. As someone who writes so much better than he speaks, I regret that Mike Portnoy (for many years I was one of the most prolific posters on his forum) shut his site down. We had a fantastic community. I don't know how much financial interest Dream Theater has in helping to sustain this kind of community. I don't doubt for a second they appreciate all their fans, but is it worth their while to take an active interest in this place? It looks like no. And that's fair enough. Quite honestly, just as they have their lives outside the activity of the band, so do I, and outside of a week or two every 2 years, Dream Theater is the last reason I visit this forum. I love the band and will automatically buy everything they ever put out, but I don't come here for them.

[Ninjabait]

Honestly, I don't know how much I agree with the original sentiment of this thread. Dream Theater's social media presence is a solid C+/B-. There are a lot of bands and artists who are just awful with social media and really behind the times. Neal Morse is probably the first that springs to mind. Tool until very recently wasn't that great. And so on.

I think it's fairly normal for discussion to die down a couple of months after an album drops. The r/Lorde subreddit has been fairly dead for a while outside of thirsty dudes posting pictures of her (which is pretty normal for pop artist Subreddits). The r/CarlyRaeJepsen subreddit slowed to a crawl a little bit after Dedicated dropped. Tours are great for revenue, but they're honestly terrible for discussion.

The only two artists I see who have essentially year round activity are Taylor Swift and Kanye West. Taylor Swift actively interacts with her fans on tumblr and has her "Secret Sessions" where she invites certain fans from Twitter and Tumblr to a house to get an early listen on the album and her thoughts on everything. She actively sets trends on social media because she tries new things. I don't follow Kanye West, so I can't say much for him specifically, but the dude has a borderline cult of personality.

Honestly, it's hard for a band of 5 to have the same social media presence as a solo artist. It's more difficult for the audience to build personal connections, because there are 5 people instead of 1. It's just more work for everybody. DT has decent fan engagement and they do things prior to album releases that drum up discussion very well. The Ravenskill vs GNE thing, the treasure hunt, etc. I think these are fantastic uses of social media. In fact, Swift did a similar thing by hiding clues in music video and people are STILL talking about it

[Architeuthis]

This is by far the best place/ forum I've been a part of. What I like about it way over social media, is that people are way more respectful to each other and have civilized discussions about pretty much any subject.
 It's the most informative about what DT is up to, plus info and discussions about other bands that you don't find on social media. I'm also a big Rush, Yes, Maiden, and Symphony X fan,  so I need to look no further than here to find the latest and greatest on them.
There are a lot of intelligent informed people on here where I enjoy reading their posts whether I agree or not. So yes, I appreciate this place as an escape from everyday life and it's nice to be able to openly discuss Dream Theater. I don't get that opportunity very often where I live..
 The only thing that surprises me a bit is that the "Musician's" section doesn't get more frequented. It's all good though!   

Pretty much this.

Haven't had the pleasure of meeting anyone from here yet but I know this will happen at some point at a DT show.

I've met one person from this forum in Seattle at a Symphony X concert,  then hung out again before a a DT concert.  Very awesome dude and now I feel I have a friend for life..   

[NoFred]

IMO dedicated forums have a future, they’re social community builders in a way that ultra huge social networks are not. Forums are like podcasts/radio shows - lots of inside jokes and mostly lurkers.

Many sub forums suck though. I can see a day where DT and GM are merged to keep the local traffic high.

[DT1138]

Forums like this are essential - the quality of conversation, discussion and debate that you get on this sort of forum is totally different to what you get on social media.

This pretty much sums it up for me. 

Personally, I can't stand social media and the death grip it seems to have on the entire world.  I don't use it at all, save for ONE Reddit site and that is pretty much just a complaint fest on that particular topic.  I've seen my friend's FB page and the crap that is posted on there is so utterly useless I can't believe there are servers being wasted on that.

But without me going on an entire rant about it, I'll just say this:  FB, Twitter, and all the rest are just super high-level "feel good" sites that have basically little to no depth in terms of serious content.   I come to forums like this and many others over the past 20 years to read and participate in more meaningful discussions, learn things, etc.  There is far more value in well-done forums like this one than any fad-driven social media site.

I think DT is just following the trend that all other bands, TV shows, movies, and even the (supposed) news shows all do:  Promote mercilessly thru social media because "everyone" is doing it, and since the public's general attention spans seem to be getting shorter by the minute you will be forgotten in mere seconds if you don't constantly put out information (no matter how useless or trivial).  I honestly don't know if it will ever go away (God willing...) but I am seeing more resistance to it.  Probably the only way to kill it off completely would be to replace it with some other fad, but I cannot imagine what that would be. 

In my opinion, DT could totally drop social media participation and just promote thru their website with important updates.  I don't need to know what they are doing every five minutes.

That all being said, I've really enjoyed this forum and hope it never goes away.  Thank you to Bosk for doing this for us.   

[Stadler]

Forums like this will probably end soon, and I'll miss them very much when they do. I don't participate on social media because it's not suited to the way I write things and the kinds of discussions I want to have. This place and one other are the extent of my online posting. I like being able to set out a piece of writing without concern for word limits or staying within the boundaries of what isn't at risk of being mocked (I've recently quit the P/R subforum on here because even here that has now been lost, but the other 2 subforums I visit on here - Dream Theater and General Music - are interesting and fun). Forums like this are really valuable to people like me, who live very far away from their native countries and rely on these types of boards to keep in touch with people who share a passion for music and the sharing of ideas. I think that 5 or so years from now we'll all have been forced, by design, to communicate with each other in 140-characters or less, and I dread that day. As someone who writes so much better than he speaks, I regret that Mike Portnoy (for many years I was one of the most prolific posters on his forum) shut his site down. We had a fantastic community. I don't know how much financial interest Dream Theater has in helping to sustain this kind of community. I don't doubt for a second they appreciate all their fans, but is it worth their while to take an active interest in this place? It looks like no. And that's fair enough. Quite honestly, just as they have their lives outside the activity of the band, so do I, and outside of a week or two every 2 years, Dream Theater is the last reason I visit this forum. I love the band and will automatically buy everything they ever put out, but I don't come here for them.

This is exactly - and I mean that with no hyperbole - how I feel, even down to the details (my reasons for coming here, I was a pretty prolific poster at mp.com, I too post over at one other forum, and I even quit the equivalent of the P/R on that forum for the exact same reasons).

Not to get preachy, but if forums go, it's going to be a loss.  I think that the added depth builds... substance. Relationships - good ones - are not easy.   I'm not on Facebook, and only reluctantly on Twitter, but the ability to flesh out positions and ideas has been a real benefit to me in real life.  I've met several people here that I would now count as "friends" - with no qualifier - and whose opinions I value because there's a real content to them built up over time.  I can't speak for anyone else, but my life is complicated and can't really be reduced in any meaningful way to a "hashtag".   

[bosk1]

Just to add some clarity, yeah, the point of this thread really is more along the lines of asking: Is this forum really necessary or beneficial?  But as I said, I kind of had a few different ideas in my head at the same time, and I just kind of went a bunch of different directions, so sorry if my point was not clear and was hard to follow.  I appreciate all the responses.

[Max Kuehnau]

Just to add some clarity, yeah, the point of this thread really is more along the lines of asking: Is this forum really necessary or beneficial?  But as I said, I kind of had a few different ideas in my head at the same time, and I just kind of went a bunch of different directions, so sorry if my point was not clear and was hard to follow.  I appreciate all the responses.

with respect to your clarification (thanks btw): Is it beneficial? Yes, I would guess so.

[Another_Won]

"People just don't have time for music anymore"

Well I have no problem dedicating 40+ minutes to just one song.

I also read more than 140 characters at a time.

Is this site beneficial? Absolutely!  other social media is just a snack, this place is full meal including BBQ chicken and chocolate layer cake.

[Ninjabait]

Just to add some clarity, yeah, the point of this thread really is more along the lines of asking: Is this forum really necessary or beneficial?  But as I said, I kind of had a few different ideas in my head at the same time, and I just kind of went a bunch of different directions, so sorry if my point was not clear and was hard to follow.  I appreciate all the responses.

This forum specifically? Yeah, I mean have you SEEN the Dream Theater subreddit or the comments on their social media? It's like the biggest Bring Back Portnoy/The Astonishing sucks/Make Metropolis pt. 3/Come to Brazil circlejerk (except they might actually be serious). This is one of the more wholesome prog metal communities out there. I mean, y'all still elitist jerks sometimes but it's sometimes and not all the time. Ya feel me?

Forums in general still have their place too imo. People need a place to discuss niche or specific interests, whether it be a forum or a subreddit or a tumblr or a facebook group. Forums are a specialized form of social media, and people need to have a sense of community around their interests.

[MoraWintersoul]

This forum in particular is necessary - and a forum like this used to be necessary for any band. But hobby forums are dying. This is the only band forum I'm on. I would love to be on more, but all of the ones I posted on have died! I wish we could bring them back. I don't want to have to visit three subreddits, two webzine comment sections (though those are dying as well), and hopelessly try to find Facebook groups that actually host discussion and not just endless linksharing*, just to talk about one band's new album.

* I'm in a private Facebook group for about a few dozen active prog metal fans where we write in Serbian, and I'm also in the unofficial ProgPower USA Facebook group. The only good music discussion groups I found. If anyone else knows of a cool music discussion group on Facebook, pretty please with a cherry on top let me know!

[gborland]

Is the Ytsejam mailing list still going? I made some great friends on there.

[Ninjabait]

Honest question, do people really still use mailing lists? I've personally never used one, and I don't know anyone who does. I just assumed it was one of those things that everyone suggests musicians to have, but very few fans ever use (like a MySpace or a website).

[ytserush]

Honest question, do people really still use mailing lists? I've personally never used one, and I don't know anyone who does. I just assumed it was one of those things that everyone suggests musicians to have, but very few fans ever use (like a MySpace or a website).

I would. But I'm not sure there would be any left for music that I'm interested in.

[Thoughtspart3]

I like the forums so much more than fb or any other social media.  The discussions here are so much better. It is also much easier to find info with the way the forum is organized. fb is good for informing. The forum is much better for discussing and learning about music. I would be sad to see it leave. Thanks for your work Bosk.

[Northern Lion]

I think there will always be forums.  Look at email, it's been around almost 30 years, I think?  And it's still used a lot even though it's considered an old technology by today's standards.

[Willthescout7]

I might not comment a lot, but I log on every morning to see what's new. I would hate to see this place disappear.

[Lethean]

I think this forum is awesome, and felt that way about the MP forum too.  I also use social media - there's a place for it too and interactions there can be fun.  But forums are better suited to in depth discussions.  I don't think the search function here always works as well as it should, but if I wanted to find a specific post on Facebook from a few years ago?  I could find it in 30 seconds or it could take an eternity to find it, if I do so at all.  It's nice to have threads where you can go deep and easily find that thread the next day or the next week or the next year.  I enjoy reading posts on both the DT and non-DT side, and have found that this is a really nice community.


On a side note - Dave, I really appreciated your political posts on mp.com and here as well.  I have read the P/R side lately - I've been on a bit of a politics vacation, but I always thought you had great insight and explained your point of view really well.