Why are governments making it so hard for bands?

[lonestar]

Two parts inspired this thread, first off the annual shit storm that is Prog Power USA's visa process, where usually at least one or two bands gets the axe because the US visa system is such a nightmare (Secret Sphere being this years victim). Secondly, was a post by Fish about the new import/export laws that will create a logistical nightmare for bands, probably killing off a good deal of them. Per his post...

Well here we go. I covered this a while back and now it's very real as Boris appears to be pushing the 'no deal' scenario. This is going to totally screw me up as well as a lot of other fellow touring musicians. Just spent an hour inputting info to get an EORI number and need to get advice on the rest I need to sort out.

This is a bureacratic mare and I have told my agent to put the entire European tour scheduled for next April/May on hold until we find out just how this will hit us and how we work our way through it all. I have to consult accountants and others to work out how I can handle this.

It affects me on so many levels including manufacturing the new album ( deluxe books are manufactured in Poland). It may mean shifting production to Europe including the clothing merch which up till now has been manufactured in the UK by a firm who themselves will suffer as so many bands who use them will be in the same position regarding export/import duties.

I've only just discovered this on a gov.uk update.

I'm not saying any more just now as I am still taking this in and am absolutely livid.This is a massive hit to the European touring industry and will kill off a lot of bands.

And I am still waiting to discover more about the mail order postage issues after 6 months of discussion with Royal Mail and others who appear to have no idea what's happening.
Electronic customs date stickers? Hand written CN22 customs stickers? Constant returns of signed for delivered items and lack of response on claims that are logged as being in the system but now we have to 'prove' as being sent out.

It's a fucking mess.

And the link he attached... https://www.rawmusictv.com/article/amp/2019/UK-bands-now-have-to-pay-import-duty-and-VAT-on-ALL-merchandise-before-even-entering-Europe-to-tour?fbclid=IwAR10Pb_0QDx4S_ex_2d79tJK8lKGBWNzJplSawqTcGAhAQpJcwrtnVsOk3o



Anyways, just wanted to open this to discussion and see what people are thinking...

[lonestar]

Here's a detail of this years shit show for Prog Power USA per the gentleman who handles the bulk of the visa process...

I was hoping I could add my two cents to Milton's post much earlier than this but It's been a hell of a day (nothing visa related) and this is the first chance I've had to sit down., Here it goes....

The very early year started out great and I was getting USCIS approvals in record time--in two cases the approval was done 2 days after the USCIS received the petition and paperwork. That stopped by the end of February. Since then, its been by far the most stressful year in the 12 years I've been doing visa work. Let me be clear, I have not received denials. What I have experienced is nothing but trouble with the USCIS. If it could be fucked up, they fucked it up. I have spent more time on the phone with the USCIS this year than all other years combined. Right now, I am too tired to go through the Mueller-report length list of shit that hit the fan because of the USCIS this year.

I address myself to the chaotic shit-show that involved the bands for Days 1 & 2 of PPUSA. Due to the USCIS being incredibly slow this year, almost every band for Days 1 & 2 had to be applied for under premium processing after they were originally submitted under regular processing. Just so you know, the ADDITIONAL cost for premium processing is $1410 by the USCIS plus $40 in postage costs for over-nighting, etc. You do the math for the number of bands involved--again, that is in addition to the original processing fees and costs (and a little profit for me, etc.). Milton and Nathan spent a truckload of money to try and get you the bands announced. For Secret Sphere and Ancient Bards, despite ultimately getting the petitions approved, the US embassies the bands could go to couldn't get them in timely--the waits were months long. Money--lots of money--down the drain in addition to immense frustration and anger.

Galneryus. A band that has never been to the US before and literally has done 4-5 shows outside of Japan their entore career. Despite this history, I was able to amass almost 800 pages of media to submit. Objectively looking at what I was able to submit, I felt good--it was good. However, the USCIS issued an RFE. I'm not going to go through the details , that's a novella of its own. Suffice to say that the RFE made no sense internally--it admitted we satisfied some of the criteria but not all of them. However, if you meet certain criteria, by definition, that should mean you meet certain other criteria. In addition, the RFE criticized things that were accepted by the USCIS in HUNDREDS of cases I have submitted before and received approvals for. Again, the complete lack of consistency reared its ugly head when one agent said something wasn't acceptable that was found to be acceptable in hundreds of prior cases. This was confirmed when the USCIS ultimately approved the band based primarily on a 14 page letter response I wrote that pointed out the inconsistencies and addressed the fallacies of the RFE. By the way, the amount of time I spent dealing with the RFE alone was about 20 hours when all was said and done.

Insomnium. One of my favorite bands and probably the band I was most excited to do given my fan-boy love for these guys. They were a shoe-in. They have toured the US many, many times and have been approved for P1 visas on each occasion. They had most recently been approved in 2017 for visas valid to the end pf 2018. Hell, I was "re-applying" literally 6 months after their last visas expired. I should be able to submit that they have been determined to be "internationally recognized " 5-6 times before and the USCIS should throw an approval at me. However, I am too paranoid for that so I did my usual overkill job and submitted what scientists refer to as a "fucking shitload" of stuff in support of Insomnium, But the USCIS issued an RFE. The RFE contained all of the inconsistent insanity that the Galneryus RFE had. Another 15 hours of my time went into that response when all was said and done. Once the RFE response was submitted, I emailed the USCIS on two occasions explaining to them the exigency of the petition given the impending date of the first performance and that the band needed their visas so they could land in the US on their way to Mexico on August 26. The USCIS responded on both occasions that the matter was still "under submission." Thanks. The approval was made literally at the last minute. The very last minute. Swear to God I was waking up every morning with a burning in my stomach and anxiety that was through the roof.

Let me be very clear about one thing: Milton busted his ass through the entirety. For every bullet I sweat, he sweat at least as many--probably more. We were communicating via texts, emails and phone calls multiple times daily for weeks. We bitched, we moaned, we all but held each other as we cried. No, really, when shit hit the fan, Milton grabbed the shovel and the sponge and got to cleanin' it up. His assistance with the RFEs was critical and he came through He involved his lawmakers and got people he knows to help us out.

So, what have we learned from this who experience? Nothing. Not a fucking thing. Nothing we didn't already know. The system is broken. The standards are fluid and subjective. The USCIS agents are undoubtedly extremely overworked and over-stressed and know only that no matter what they do, someone will criticize it. That there is too much work for the agents to do and it will undoubtedly only get worse. I wish I had good news but I don't. Its a struggle I cannot see easing at anytime in the foreseeable future.

[cramx3]

Yeah, I don't know more than what ProgPower has been sharing, but it seems this is becoming a real problem for smaller bands to get visa approvals to play in the US and it's only getting worse.

[ariich]

The US has always been bad in this regard.

The UK has traditionally been good, especially with free movement in the EU. Unfortunately UK politics is a shit show at the moment which is what's putting all this at risk. But there's a difference between what Boris Johnson says he wants to do and what he'll actually be capable of doing. It's reasonable for Fish to put things on hold until it becomes clearer though.

[The Walrus]

The US has always had problems but this year in particular has been a clusterfuck even compared to past years, by all accounts. It's ridiculous.

[Stadler]

Not saying if this is right, wrong or indifferent.   BUT... when politicians propose these laws that sound great to the hoi polloi and corporations bitch and moan, it's not ALWAYS with "corporate greed" and "obscene profits" in mind.   Sometimes it's shit like this, when changes are not well thought out and the full consequences are not considered very well. 

[ProfessorPeart]

Just read the stupidity that Orange Goblin recently went through. Their drummer was denied. The story below details all of the insane hoops they made him jump through only to deny him anyway.

http://bravewords.com/news/orange-goblin-drummer-chris-turner-denied-entry-into-the-united-states-for-upcoming-tour

[mike099]

Do these bands coming in perform other shows in the US after the Atlanta shows? 

[cramx3]

Do these bands coming in perform other shows in the US after the Atlanta shows?

Some do and some don't.  This year, Secret Sphere was just doing PP, but Wind Rose was doing a full tour with PP and the whole thing got cancelled. 

[lonestar]

Just read the stupidity that Orange Goblin recently went through. Their drummer was denied. The story below details all of the insane hoops they made him jump through only to deny him anyway.

http://bravewords.com/news/orange-goblin-drummer-chris-turner-denied-entry-into-the-united-states-for-upcoming-tour

Yeah, forgot to add that one to the op, but it did stick out as 9ne of the bigger bullshit scenarios. So fucking wrong.

The US has always been bad in this regard.

The UK has traditionally been good, especially with free movement in the EU. Unfortunately UK politics is a shit show at the moment which is what's putting all this at risk. But there's a difference between what Boris Johnson says he wants to do and what he'll actually be capable of doing. It's reasonable for Fish to put things on hold until it becomes clearer though.

Which is a shame, cause Fish is only planning on 9ne more album and tour before retiring from music, and now even that's tenuous at best. He's given enough to the industry that a proper farewell is in order. Sucks that he may be denied it through no fault of his own.