Your top ten Dream Theater songs.

[Setlist Scotty]

My copy of Awake has Track 8 listed as Lie. So track 8 is Lie. It's not an interpretation. It isn't open to interpretation. It is not arbitrary. It's written that way on the CD.

Then please explain why track 5 of CD2 of LSFNY is simply listed as "The Mirror". That also isn't open to interpretation nor is it arbitrary. And it's written that way on the CD.     And don't forget to explain why ItPoE is 2 tracks on SC but 1 on CiM, as well as why SDoIT is 8 tracks on the album, but 1 track on Score.   
 
 

Better yet, what are your feelings on ItPoE and the title track to SDoIT?

I don't really see what this has to do with what's being discussed.  The two ITPOE tracks are clearly labeled as parts 1 and 2 of the same song.  Disc 2 of SDOIT (the album) is clearly labeled as being a 42:00 long song called "Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence" that is split into eight sections.

And yet you have people like Shmev (and perhaps Cool Chris) that would argue that you're wrong in what you're saying...
 
 

Regardless of how it was done on the demos, the band clearly made a choice to create a song called "Lie" that is separate and distinct from the song called "The Mirror."  That the end of the former has a part that, on a demo, was part of and which is musically similar to the latter doesn't change that.

And regardless of how it's tracked on the album or listed in the liner notes, MP, long *after* Awake was released, stated in no uncertain terms that when they expanded that section into Lie, it was to be a song *within* a song - that is a song inside another one. What he says does change what you're claiming. And again, feel free to answer the question I posed to Cool Chris above about The Mirror on LSFNY.
 
 

You cite your evidence from the Demo liner notes.  Demo.  How many demos from how many bands over the history of music evolved out of one thing and into something completely different.  Just cuz it's in the demo liner notes (official or not) doesn't mean the intentions translate on to the formal studio release.

Exactly.

See my response to jingle in my previous post.

Then who should we believe? Whatever some fan says just because that's what he believes? If anything, I think MP, with his elephant memory and attention to detail regarding facts (not opinions) about these sorts of things should be accepted as gospel more than anything else.

Exactly right.  It's just that, with regard to The Mirror, he isn't saying what you think he's saying.

Then what is he saying?

[bosk1]

Then who should we believe? Whatever some fan says just because that's what he believes? If anything, I think MP, with his elephant memory and attention to detail regarding facts (not opinions) about these sorts of things should be accepted as gospel more than anything else.

Exactly right.  It's just that, with regard to The Mirror, he isn't saying what you think he's saying.

Then what is he saying?

I think the words are pretty clear.  He is saying what the intent was at the time the songs were being written.  There is nothing in anything you quoted about what the intent became at the time of the final product.  That is about as meaningless as him going on and on and on about the intent of the flute solo at the end of Octavarium being the intended ending of the song.  That's great and all.  But they clearly made a last minute change, and it is clear that the final version of the song does not have a flute solo, notwithstanding what the intent may have been all the way up until the final moment when they redid it before release.

My copy of Awake has Track 8 listed as Lie. So track 8 is Lie. It's not an interpretation. It isn't open to interpretation. It is not arbitrary. It's written that way on the CD.

Then please explain why track 5 of CD2 of LSFNY is simply listed as "The Mirror". That also isn't open to interpretation nor is it arbitrary. And it's written that way on the CD.     And don't forget to explain why ItPoE is 2 tracks on SC but 1 on CiM, as well as why SDoIT is 8 tracks on the album, but 1 track on Score.   

Because track 8 on LSFNY is The Mirror and not Lie.  Not sure how that's somehow controversial.

And also (although this isn't necessary to prove the point), LSFNY.  This is a different live version of the song.

Not sure why the reference to the other two songs.  You, pg1067, and I all agree that those are each one song.

[Cool Chris]

My copy of Awake has Track 8 listed as Lie. So track 8 is Lie. It's not an interpretation. It isn't open to interpretation. It is not arbitrary. It's written that way on the CD.

Then please explain why track 5 of CD2 of LSFNY is simply listed as "The Mirror". That also isn't open to interpretation nor is it arbitrary. And it's written that way on the CD.     And don't forget to explain why ItPoE is 2 tracks on SC but 1 on CiM, as well as why SDoIT is 8 tracks on the album, but 1 track on Score.   

Those are separate, and different, recordings, so I guess that they can call them whatever they want, as they have rights to it. They could call Track 5 of Live Scenes CD2 "Rorrim Eht," it is their recording of it. It doesn't change what is listed as Tracks 7 and 8 on Awake.

And regardless of how it's tracked on the album or listed in the liner notes, MP, long *after* Awake was released, stated in no uncertain terms that when they expanded that section into Lie, it was to be a song *within* a song - that is a song inside another one.

We aren't arguing that point. It just has no bearing on how we view the songs.

[Setlist Scotty]

Then who should we believe? Whatever some fan says just because that's what he believes? If anything, I think MP, with his elephant memory and attention to detail regarding facts (not opinions) about these sorts of things should be accepted as gospel more than anything else.

Exactly right.  It's just that, with regard to The Mirror, he isn't saying what you think he's saying.

Then what is he saying?

I think the words are pretty clear.  He is saying what the intent was at the time the songs were being written.  There is nothing in anything you quoted about what the intent became at the time of the final product.  That is about as meaningless as him going on and on and on about the intent of the flute solo at the end of Octavarium being the intended ending of the song.  That's great and all.  But they clearly made a last minute change, and it is clear that the final version of the song does not have a flute solo, notwithstanding what the intent may have been all the way up until the final moment when they redid it before release.

But here's the thing - as I already stated, in explaining everything in the liner notes, MP included details about how the songs evolved from the demo stage to the *final* album. If there was some intent that didn't happen between the time they wrote it to when they released it, don't you think *that* wouldn't also be mentioned? Coming from MP, I expect it would. Had there been a "Making of Octavarium" release, you can be sure that MP would've explained the detail about how they originally intended to include the flute solo at the end, but then changed it. There is nothing like that stated in the Awake liner notes to show that what appeared on the final album further changed from what was intended.
 
 

My copy of Awake has Track 8 listed as Lie. So track 8 is Lie. It's not an interpretation. It isn't open to interpretation. It is not arbitrary. It's written that way on the CD.

Then please explain why track 5 of CD2 of LSFNY is simply listed as "The Mirror". That also isn't open to interpretation nor is it arbitrary. And it's written that way on the CD.     And don't forget to explain why ItPoE is 2 tracks on SC but 1 on CiM, as well as why SDoIT is 8 tracks on the album, but 1 track on Score.   

Because track 8 on LSFNY is The Mirror and not Lie.  Not sure how that's somehow controversial.

No, according to you and others, it's The Mirror with "the Lie outro" - therefore it should be listed and tracked as such to match what you are saying about the division of the songs on Awake. But it isn't. Why? Because the whole thing *is* The Mirror, including the last 1.5 minutes.
 
 

And also (although this isn't necessary to prove the point), LSFNY.  This is a different live version of the song.

Not sure what that has to do with anything. Just because it's live doesn't change it from one thing to another - either that last 1.5 minutes is The Mirror or Lie. In fact, it highlights another point - that track is at the beginning of a medley of songs - all the others are tracked separately, which would be the *perfect* reason to split up track 5 on CD2 into 2 parts, and yet it wasn't done.
 
 

[Not sure why the reference to the other two songs.  You, pg1067, and I all agree that those are each one song.

I reference those 2 other songs because there are others like Shmev (and likely Cool Chris) who stick to the belief that because those songs have been broken up into multiple tracks, that automatically means that they are multiple songs. My bringing that up is to point out that just because something is broken into multiple tracks does not mean it's now multiple songs. And likewise, the opposite is also true - just because more than one song is under one track on a CD doesn't mean it's not 2 separate songs.
 
 

And regardless of how it's tracked on the album or listed in the liner notes, MP, long *after* Awake was released, stated in no uncertain terms that when they expanded that section into Lie, it was to be a song *within* a song - that is a song inside another one.

We aren't arguing that point. It just has no bearing on how we view the songs.

Actually it does, or else we wouldn't be having this discussion now would we?

[bosk1]

But here's the thing - as I already stated, in explaining everything in the liner notes, MP included details about how the songs evolved from the demo stage to the *final* album. If there was some intent that didn't happen between the time they wrote it to when they released it, don't you think *that* wouldn't also be mentioned? Coming from MP, I expect it would. Had there been a "Making of Octavarium" release, you can be sure that MP would've explained the detail about how they originally intended to include the flute solo at the end, but then changed it. There is nothing like that stated in the Awake liner notes to show that what appeared on the final album further changed from what was intended.

I can't speak to what he did not say or speculate as to why he did not say it.  But again, it is pretty clear that he is saying what the intent was at the time the songs were being written.  There is nothing in anything you quoted about what the intent became at the time of the final product.  As to why he didn't say more, I cannot possibly guess.

No, according to you and others, it's The Mirror with "the Lie outro" - therefore it should be listed and tracked as such to match what you are saying about the division of the songs on Awake.

No, I never said anything of the sort.  It is The Mirror, and that isn't really controversial.  It is a different arrangement of The Mirror that they chose to do for the live performance, which bands do all the time.  But they often do not typically add a detailed explanation in the title as to how/why the arrangement is different.  Hollow Years on L@B is not listed in the track listing as "Hollow Years -- complete with ALL NEW! ripping JP solo!!!"  ACOS on LSFNY is not listed as "A Change of Seasons -- now with new and improved JR funny instrumental bits!"  So why would The Mirror be listed as "The Mirror with ..."?  That doesn't make any sense.  Which is why I never said and never would say what you are mistakenly attributing to me.  So, basically, you are now misquoting both MP and me in the same thread.  I guess I'm in good company.

I reference those 2 other songs because there are others like Shmev (and likely Cool Chris) who stick to the belief that because those songs have been broken up into multiple tracks, that automatically means that they are multiple songs. My bringing that up is to point out that just because something is broken into multiple tracks does not mean it's now multiple songs. And likewise, the opposite is also true - just because more than one song is under one track on a CD doesn't mean it's not 2 separate songs.

Yes, but they are clearly wrong, so why bring that up in responding to people that agree on that point?

[Northern Lion]

Well if neither of you guys have the Awake demos, I'm sure you can find them on a certain site for reference as to how The Mirror was originally. 

And as for cutting The Mirror out completely, just listen to the way the song flows on LSFNY. It doesn't include that fast guitar section that appears from 4:57 to 5:07 on track 8 of Awake, but includes everything after it, tacked on to the end of The Mirror.

Before I try and do the edit, I'll take your advice and listen to the demo first.  And yeah, I figured the part you are talking about was after the fast pick part toward the end of Lie.

As a side note, I have always liked The Mirror but hated how it abruptly ended, so I always played The Mirror/Lie back to back because it flowed better otherwise I wouldn't listen to The Mirror at all.  Even though I have combined or cut other songs like I mentioned previously, I never did that with The Mirror/Lie because I really couldn't see them as one 12+ minute song, it just didn't feel right.  So I just saw them as two separate songs that I could only enjoy if I played them back to back like they are on the album.

That probably sounds weird but, everyone likes their DT the way they like it I guess 

[Peter Mc]

Scotty, don’t worry, I know you are not saying you’re better than me or anyone else. I also know from my time on MP’s forum that you were closer to Mike than most fans. Again, am not doubting what you read, just thought it was an unfair comparison to ITPOE/SDOIT which the band have very publicly stated are single songs and are listed on the album as different parts of the same song. This issue you have brought up about The Mirror (historically a big fan favourite song) is not very publicly stated, not well known at all even to those who consider themselves fairly knowledgeable about the band and is not referred to at all on the album.  I agree that the Lie outro fits perfectly well with The Mirror on LSFNY and don’t doubt it was originally going to be part of that song, hence their decision to play it that way as a treat for fans just like they did later with HK/BMS. I just choose to go with what the band ultimately gave us on the album which is two separate songs with two different titles and no stated link between them. If you’ve had personal discussions with Mike about it and he’s told you how he views these songs then that’s awesome and I can see why you see them the way you do.

There are some who will state that ITPOE in particular is two songs as it is split up on the album. I wouldn’t necessarily argue with them as, strictly speaking, it has been released that way, I can see their logic. I personally choose to accept that it is one song split purely for sequencing reasons as the band has expressly stated this and the songs are called ITPOE parts 1 and 2.

[KevShmev]

Then please explain why track 5 of CD2 of LSFNY is simply listed as "The Mirror". That also isn't open to interpretation nor is it arbitrary. And it's written that way on the CD.     And don't forget to explain why ItPoE is 2 tracks on SC but 1 on CiM, as well as why SDoIT is 8 tracks on the album, but 1 track on Score.   
 

See below.

Well, you can argue all you want, but I'll go by what the band says. The band never said that AMBI was a single song, but is has said that SDoIT is, and so I follow that reasoning. Why should I? Because they're the ones who wrote and recorded it. They know better than anyone else what they were doing.

As an aside, how did SW describe the first few PT albums? If not prog, then what? I'd say the first few albums were almost more psychedelic than prog, akin to early PF.
 

If 6DOIT is one song, then why were Goodnight Kiss and Solitary Shell listed as individual songs on the back of the Budokan live DVD, instead of Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence: Goodnight Kiss and Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence: Solitary Shell?  Same goes for War Inside My Head and The Test That Stumped Them All from the same release.

Also, Peruvian Skies on Once in a Livetime lists just Peruvian Skies, which has excerpts of Have a Cigar and Enter Sandman, but since they are not listed, are we to assume that those songs were then technically part of Peruvian Skies, similar to how the end of Lie is apparently part of the Mirror?

Moral of the story: we cannot put a ton of stock into how the band labels their songs on their live releases.

[MirrorMask]

And I thought that the wildest debate that could ever happen about DT songs was the one about Six Degrees being or not a single 42 minutes song 

As someone else said, it's fascinating that such a band have more than one situation like this where we could go on for hours about the nature of song, without anyone being clearly wrong or right.

Scotty, I completely understand the explanation about the nature of The Mirror and Lie, and how from the ending of The Mirror they managed to work out a whole song that could fit inside it so to speak. But I can hardly fault anyone for considering those two songs as separate ones, as they're tracklisted on Awake.

As far as live performances go, most bands are in situations where they have to work around ending of songs, be them fadeouts or transitions in other songs (Should they ever decide to play A Saviour in the Square alone, they'll have to come up with something if they avoid going directly into When your Time has Come). Ending The Mirror live the way it was demoed it's the only logical way after all, the fact that the demo was the starting point to conjure up another whole song is just a bonus information.

[OpenYourEyes311]

I can't believe Scotty is getting this much grief.

[Ninjabait]

I really don’t think the ITPOE or SDOIT examples are comparable. They are clearly labelled as being parts of the same song. The reasons for splitting ITPOE on the album were clearly explained at the time of release and are widely known.

I can't speak for Cool Chris, because I don't know his personal feelings, but I know that there are some people on this forum that would argue that they consider both ItPoE and SDoIT to consist of multiple songs instead of being single songs that were split up for tracking purposes.

It's interesting you mention this, because I would argue that both views are accurate. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, In the Presence of Enemies, and The Mirror/Lie all fall under a single genre called a song cycle. To quote the Oxford Dictionary of Music, a song cycle is:

A group of individually complete songs designed as a unit (aptly described in German as ‘zusammenhängender Complex’), for solo or ensemble voices with or without instrumental accompaniment. ... They may be as brief as two songs (dyad-cycles) or as long as 30 or more (e.g. Schoeck’s Das holde Bescheiden op.62).

And here's another from Wikipedia:

... Some type of coherence, however, is regarded as a necessary attribute of song cycles. It may derive from the text (a single poet; a story line; a central theme or topic such as love or nature; a unifying mood; poetic form or genre, as in a sonnet or ballad cycle) or from musical procedures (tonal schemes; recurring motifs, passages or entire songs; formal structures). These unifying features may appear singly or in combination. ...

Basically, while In the Presence of Enemies is one unified work as a song cycle, it's ALSO six songs: I. Prelude, II. Resurrection, III. Heretic, IV. The Slaughter of the Damned, V. The Reckoning, and VI. Salvation. It's also two tracks, because this wasn't already confusing enough lol. The individual songs are unified through a story line and recurring motifs and passages (and, I suppose, a broader overarching formal structure). SDoIT is one song cycle with nine songs (counting Losing Time and Grand Finale as separate units), unified through a central theme (mental illness) and several recurring musical ideas. There is also broader overarching structure to it as well. There's some semantics here regarding if a cycle with both instrumental pieces and vocal songs is technically a song cycle (afaik there's no term for something that does this), but that's besides the point.

The Mirror/Lie is a dyad-cycle (as mentioned in the quote): it's two songs, but one cycle. As the quote you posted illustrates, The Mirror and Lie were designed as a unit, but are two individually complete songs. In this case, they are unified by a lyrical "mood" (since they don't have any direct similarities in terms of subject matter like the two above songs do) and reoccurring motifs and passages. They are -- to my knowledge -- almost always played together live, but could potentially stand on their own in a live setting. So the reprise of The Mirror section at the end of Lie makes total sense in that regard, but I would argue that it doesn't necessarily make it a part of The Mirror (the song) instead of Lie (the song). Instead, I would argue, this is an example of cyclic form. To quote Oxford again:

Music in which a later movement reintroduces thematic material of an earlier movement is said to be in ‘cyclic form’. In its strict meaning such music returns at its end to the point whence it set out at the beginning, in the manner of the song There’s a hole in my bucket, to produce an endlessly rotating cycle; but in practice the simplest examples have been works like Haydn’s Symphony no.31 in D (Hornsignal), Beethoven’s Serenade op.8, Brahms’s Third Symphony and Elgar’s Second Symphony, whose finales all close with the material of the beginning of the work. More generally the term ‘cyclic’ describes those works where thematic links bind more than one movement; it is not properly applied to mere thematic resemblances.

So Lie (as a movement of the song cycle) closes with material from an earlier movement, The Mirror. That reprise of the section of The Mirror is still a part of Lie as a song, but it's main purpose is to tie the The Mirror/Lie song cycle together. If you were to cover Lie on its own, you would likely include that reprise of The Mirror. If you released an official sheet music or TAB book of the songs (and oh look, they did), the reprise would still be include with Lie.

There's also a random quotation of Space-Dye Vest in The Mirror, but the less said about that the better.

To summarize:

The Mirror/Lie is a single dyad-cycle, with two songs, split into two tracks. The two parts were conceived as one unit (and are often performed as one unit) but they technically function as complete songs. They are unified by reoccurring musical motifs, a broader musical structure, and a general lyrical "mood". The second song in the cycle, Lie, has a reprise of a section of the first song in the cycle, The Mirror. This is an example of cyclic form to give the cycle and overall greater sense of structural unity. In a sense you're totally right, because that reprise IS a part of The Mirror/Lie dyad-cycle. But in a sense, you're also totally wrong, because it's definitely a part of Lie, the individual song and track. They're both totally separate entities and a unified whole at the same time, like two movements of a symphony.

tl;dr: So...you're all kind of right and kind of wrong, I guess? idk this is a hot mess of semantics

[bosk1]

You forgot The Mirror reprise in Space Dye Vest.

[Ninjabait]

The less said about that the better.

Nah, but for real. SDV isn't really a part of the cycle imo (it's not frequently played with The Mirror/Lie and there's like three tracks of separation). Like...the shared material between the two is honestly hella weird because they're not connected otherwise outside of appearing on the same album. But you could also argue that SDV IS a part of the cycle because of the shared themes and ugh

[Trav86]

Top 20....in sorta chronological order.....

Pull Me Under
Metropolis
Learning to Live
To Live Forever
Erotomania
Voices
The Mirror
Scarred
A Change Of Seasons
Trial of Tears
Fatal Tragedy
Home
The Spirit Carries On
Blind Faith
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
As I Am
Bridges in the Sky
Outcry
Breaking All Illusions
At Wit’s End

[pg1067]

You forgot The Mirror reprise in Space Dye Vest.

I always thought of it as a preprise of SDV in The Mirror.   

[bosk1]

Well, if we're talking about SDV, we all lose and nobody gets the prize, so there's that.

[gzarruk]

I can't believe almost the whole thread became a discussion for The Mirror/Lie and semantics, well... it's DTF after all, and I love it

I feel like I souldn't add more fuel to the fire, but...

Didn't the demo version of PMU contain part of what became Erotomania later on? Does that mean that Erotomania is actually part of PMU?

Wasn't SFAM a 20+ minute song at first? After all, that's the way the band intended it to be, but we ended up having something different, didn't we?

For both cases, as well as the ending of OVM and ASITS/WYTHC on TA, the band ended up changing things from what the original idea was, and now we have the finished product to listen to. Simple as that. SDOIT and ITPOE are different because they were released as one song, just different tracks.

Whatever, I'm gonna start calling The Mirror "Puppies on Acid expanded" from now on...

And, to answer to the OP, it's impossible to pick just 10

[Northern Lion]

"

Congratulations! You were the one to finally end the discussion and show us all up.

[TAC]

Well, if we're talking about SDV, we all lose and nobody gets the prize, so there's that.

Huh..I like Strange Deja Vu.

[snapple]

no particular order

Bridges in the Sky
Breaking All Illusions
Another Won
Under a Glass Moon
the entire Awake album

[ThatOneGuy2112]

To hopefully steer the thread discussion back to the intended topic. 

1. Metropolis Pt. 1
2. Scarred
3. Learning to Live
4. A Change of Seasons
5. Blind Faith
6. Finally Free
7. Misunderstood
8. Home
9. Breaking All Illusions
10. Octavarium

Voices, ToT, and LiTS also almost made the cut. I think it's awesome how only 10 of the best songs from the band can amount to well over an hour of stellar music.

[Ben_Jamin]

I'm trying to find the old Top 50 thread we had. I think it would be cool if I updated mine. Top 10 will likely be the same, maybe some songs added in. Depends on what year it was we did that.

[geeeemo]

1.  Ocatavarium
2. Breaking All Illusions
3. Home
4. In the Presence of Enemies (live 1&2)
the rest can be any number 5-10 and maybe even 10 more songs thrown in. I don't know how the d/t songs are going to fall into place after a time.

5. In the Name of God
6. At Wit's End
7. On the Backs of Angels
8. Finally Free
9. The Mirror (with Lie because the Mirror reprises at the end of Lie - I always hear it, and not being one who can credibly jump into the technical discussions, I always think of Mirror and Lie together) 
10.  Pale Blue Dot

[NoFred]

9. The Mirror (with Lie because the Mirror reprises at the end of Lie - I always hear it, and not being one who can credibly jump into the technical discussions, I always think of Mirror and Lie together) 

They solved this on SFAM with the (scene N) breakdown. Mirror and Lie, different songs same scene.

The Mirror tangent got me listening to Awake. I think I need to move Voices up a few spots...

[YtseBitsySpider]

1.Afterlife
2.The Ones Who Help to Set The Sun
3.Surrounded
4.Learning to Live
5.Lines In the Sand
6.The Spirit Carries On
7.Count Of Tuscany
8.Bridges In the Sky
9.Illumination Theory
10. something off Train of Thought I guess...

And the amount of current replay is actually working 9 and up...

[DT1138]

In no specific order...

Lie
Room 137
On the Backs of Angels
Enigma Machine
Take Away My Pain
Beyond This Life
Fatal Tragedy
Panic Attack
In The Presence Of Enemies Pt 1
In the Name of God

[Dave_Manchester]

It speaks to the diversity of the band's output that 75 of their songs are so far represented in the top ten lists. For the interested, these are the songs that have so far got a mention (by album):

When Dream And Day Unite

A Fortune In Lies
The Killing Hand
Light Fuse And Get Away
The Ones Who Help To Set The Sun
Afterlife
Only A Matter of Time

Images and Words:

Pull Me Under
Another Day
Take The Time
Surrounded
Metropolis
Under A Glass Moon
Wait For Sleep
Learning To Live

Awake:

6:00
Voices
The Mirror
Lie
Lifting Shadows Off A Dream
Scarred
Space Dye Vest

Falling Into Infinity:

New Millennium
Hollow Years
Hell's Kitchen
Lines In The Sand
Take Away My Pain
Anna Lee
Trial of Tears

Scenes From A Memory:

Strange Deja Vu
Fatal Tragedy
Beyond This Life
Home
The Dance of Eternity
The Spirit Carries On
Finally Free

Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence:

The Glass Prison
Blind Faith
Misunderstood
The Great Debate
Disappear
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
About To Crash
Solitary Shell

Train of Thought:

Endless Sacrifice
Vacant
Stream of Consciousness
In The Name Of God

Octavarium:

The Root Of All Evil
Panic Attack
Sacrificed Sons
Octavarium

Systematic Chaos:

Constant Motion
In The Presence of Enemies

Black Clouds and Silver Linings:

The Count of Tuscany

A Dramatic Turn of Events:

On The Backs Of Angels
This Is The Life
Bridges In The Sky
Breaking All Illusions
Beneath The Surface

Dream Theater:

The Looking Glass
Enigma Machine
The Bigger Picture
Surrender To Reason
Illumination Theory

The Astonishing:

Three Days
A Life Left Behind
Moment of Betrayal

Distance Over Time:

Fall Into The Light
Room 137
At Wit's End
Pale Blue Dot

Non-album tracks:

A Change of Seasons
Another Won
Speak To Me
To Live Forever
Don't Look Past Me

[jingle.boy]

Fascinating analysis Dave.  I&W - every song mentioned.  SC and BCSL least represented, which to me validates that they really DID need the change.

[Ben_Jamin]

Yay I found the thread. My have things have changed.


10. Disappear - (My all time favorite ballad from my favorite album. The beginning sets the scene. Your outside, it's calm and overcast. Then you hear a scream, suddenly you see your loved one in pain, which is when the piano begins, its a sad circus. Then the hospital scene is set, as the loved one is speaking to God and the one in the bed. Soon, it gets more sad as the emotion rises in the music. Soon, your left with having to accept their going home. The music compliments it perfectly because it is the circus of life, and how suddenly one must accept death in the end. JLB has some amazing vocal moments in this song. His lower register suits it perfectly as I prefer the soft spoken parts of "I knew you were scared, you were strong I was trying")

9. The Count of Tuscany - (Got to love that opening acoustic intro. This intro is one of their finest, also one of JP's best solo's. I love the harmonies going on. The harmonics and the swoosh sound is my notification tone, as its perfect. JLB's vocal delivery, along with JP's lyrics are among the things I really enjoy, yes I don't mind the lyrics. I wouldn't want to be offered wine after hearing the story of soldiers dying in the wine barres, especially since he said "all the finest wines improve with age." The instrumental section is like him freaking out, thinking what the hell did I get myself into. Then as it gets calm so does he, I imagine someone sitting in the middle of a room with the moonlight, the only light, shining on him as he, having fear of the unknown, contemplates life. Then the silver lining, the count basically says "It's all good, I ain't gonna do a thing" From the swells everything is pure gold, I wonder if JR used the Chaos Pad? The woah's add a lot of emotion to the already epic ending, and I enjoy that he didn't go all high, just what the song called for.

8. Chosen - (One of many from The Astonishing that makes my top 50 now. This one deserves to be played again. It's a great stand alone track with lyrics that aren't really secluded to the story.)

7. WFS/LTL - (When listening to these two back to back it becomes one. It has a weird effect, when they transition and the reprise that appears in LtL. I could see the girl in the cover art laying on that bed. He's learning to live without her. What makes this a top 5 is the emotion both create. JLB has amazing range from soft low vocals to the high f#. JM's lyrics are great as well. An all around great combination that makes me feel good about life. especially when singing along.)

6. FFH/BAI - (This is the same as WFS/LTL. Instead of love, its a spiritual connection. The calm of FFH, is one contemplating while alone in their room. Then as they walk out into the world, they are breaking illusions they had once perceived. MM's drumming is great, and blends nicely without overpowering the other instruments, letting the lead be the lead. Another great part is the final fantasy-esque section. The FFH reprise works great as an end because it's the person finally overcoming this spiritual situation.)

5. The Bigger Picture - (The lyrics are what got me. Also, the instant intro and nice use of piano. The ending as well made me love it instantly, so glad they busted this out on the I&W&B tour. Was among the many highlights from that show.)

4. Finally Free - (Since, Spirit is the climax, this song is the nice calm down. Also, It's the final piece to the story. Here we learn to truth of what happened to Nicholas. Everything just fits so well, JR's cool orchestral melody in the beginning, followed by Piano only. The song is groovy and so are the lyrics. It's so majestic yet calm, until we get to the One Last Time reprise that is used here in a different way. The meaning is about laying together until death. The one thing that was a nice addition live was the rehearsal demo ending. JR's Bells add a whole lot to it. Plus, to me it concludes it better than the album ending.)

3. Trial of Tears - (Dream Theaters only soft atmospheric epic. And JM wrote it, which makes me wonder what he would come up with if he took the time to make more of these.  The soft ambiance of the intro with JP's guitar solo is mesmorising, and MP's drum work isn't over the top. It fits pretty well with the style the song calls for. The lyrics pulled me in when I first heard it on Live at Budakon, it was my first actual Dream Theater listening, other than pull me under.)

Funny thing from the post of these past two songs:

These two songs I feel they need to bring back some day, on a tour thats not for an album. 

2. At Wits End - (What can I say about this recent classic. The intro hits you hard like ITPOE pt.1 does. The best part is after the instrumental, JR's piano comes in and smoothly JLB comes in with a nice breathy vocals. The ending is an epic build-up to the nice guitar solo.)

1. Scarred - (My favorite is this lovely piece. The intro sets a nice pace, and MP and JM are in a nice groove. It sets up nice for JPs guitar to come in. love how its all the same until the lyrics begin. We have  a nice build up in the verse that goes well with the lyrics. Then it gets nice and heavy with melancholy in the pre chorus. JLB sings this with passion he delivers the emotion the lyrics call for. I really enjoy the ending as well.)

[nobloodyname]

In a fairly loose order:

Metropolis Part I
The Glass Prison
A Nightmare to Remember
Honor Thy Father
The Root of All Evil
Strange Deja-vu
6:00
Beyond This Life
Only a Matter of Time
Bridges in the Sky

Trial of Tears! I forgot that. Oh no! Gonna have to rethink!

Metropolis Part I
The Glass Prison
Trial of Tears
A Nightmare to Remember
Honor Thy Father
The Root of All Evil
6:00
Beyond This Life
Only a Matter of Time
Bridges in the Sky

There.

[gborland]

Voices
Octavarium
Metropolis
Space-Dye Vest
Trial Of Tears
Home
Six Degrees Disc 2
Only A Matter Of Time
A Change of Seasons
Learning To Live

[Dream Team]

@DaveManchester - Only a Matter of Time has been listed a couple of times (once by me) and can be added to the WDADU list of songs represented.

[erwinrafael]

Top Ten As Of Today

1. Breaking All Illusions
2. Illumination Theory
3. S2n
4. Trial of Tears
5. Our New World
6. At Wit's End
7. Scarred
8. Surrounded
9. Misunderstood
10. Metropolis Pt. 1

[LCArenas]

As of today with no special order

Octavarium
Breaking all Illusions
Learning to Live
Another Day
Voices
Eve
Panic Attack
Disappear
Home
Hell's Kitchen

[lovethedrake]

Fatal Tragedy
Six Degrees
Learning to Live
Metropolis Pt 1
Change of Seasons
Trial of Tears
Glass Prison
Overture 1928
Take the Time
Home

Honorable Mention:

Spirit Carries On, One last Time, Beyond this life, Octavarium, Count of Tuscany, A New Beginning, At Wits End, Surrounded, Under a Glass Moon, Erotomania, Voices, Pull Me Under