Poll

How much do you trust the news media (here in the States)?

I trust them completely
Not completely, but quite a bit
I don't trust or distrust them
Not much, but I do at times
I distrust them completely

Voting closes: May 27, 2025, 12:05:53 PM

Author Topic: How much do you trust the news media (here in the States)?  (Read 11982 times)

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Offline El Barto

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Re: How much do you trust the news media (here in the States)?
« Reply #105 on: October 27, 2019, 10:49:32 AM »
I honestly don't understand this vitriol to arguing the process.
Arguing process is fine when the process is being ignored or distorted. I don't see that here. Arguing process because it's not going your way is damaging AF, and that's what we've seen with Trump who's 100% result oriented. That's why we get so-called justices and witch hunts by a chamber exercising its constitutional authority. He's undermining process because of that battle of public opinion, and that's pretty much his number one strategy. Appeal to other ignorant or indifferent of process based on outcomes.

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Look at the gun thread; many have said "don't run and you won't get shot" - a practical application of "if you're innocent you've got nothing to hide" and yet we don't accept it there.  Why would we not accept it here (unless, of course, you're not interested in the fairness of the process)?
The people who are making the "don't run" argument are generally the same ones inclined to adopt "if you're innocent. . ." Many of us think they're both dangerous ideas to accept.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: How much do you trust the news media (here in the States)?
« Reply #106 on: October 28, 2019, 08:21:02 AM »
I honestly don't understand this vitriol to arguing the process.
Arguing process is fine when the process is being ignored or distorted. I don't see that here. Arguing process because it's not going your way is damaging AF, and that's what we've seen with Trump who's 100% result oriented. That's why we get so-called justices and witch hunts by a chamber exercising its constitutional authority. He's undermining process because of that battle of public opinion, and that's pretty much his number one strategy. Appeal to other ignorant or indifferent of process based on outcomes.

Look, you know my respect for you knows no bounds, and I know you get my bigger picture here, but for those that clearly don't:  it's not up to us, individually, to decide.  If it was up to me, I would have put OJ in jail BEFORE Nicole died, and we know how that turned out, in part because OJ challenged the process, won a battle of public opinion (even among the jury) and raked the police - who opened themselves up to the attack - over the coals in the process.  You don't think there's lasting damage there?  You don't think that the ridiculing of the police there has had echoes in Ferguson, and elsewhere?   

Here, that's why Brooke Baldwin DOES matter.  Not her, specifically, but the environment in which she can operate.  The press is an institution, and while they are lowering themselves to participants (Hi Jim!) it's helping to create an environment where you CAN attack the process.  He has the right to anyway, but the danger isn't JUST because of Trump, the danger is that we've opened the doors to this casting of doubt. 

This is yet another example of Trump doing what others have done before just taking it to the extreme.  Trump is A***C*** to everyone else's Napalm Death.   :)   I think you CAN attack Trump for this, but to do it we should be recognizing that there's "there" there and it's not enough to just remove Trump from the equation.  There WILL be (I believe there already are, but some here disagree with me) politicians that are already more extreme than we should be accepting, but not as extreme as Trump and so they fly under the radar. 

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Quote
Look at the gun thread; many have said "don't run and you won't get shot" - a practical application of "if you're innocent you've got nothing to hide" and yet we don't accept it there.  Why would we not accept it here (unless, of course, you're not interested in the fairness of the process)?
The people who are making the "don't run" argument are generally the same ones inclined to adopt "if you're innocent. . ." Many of us think they're both dangerous ideas to accept.

For the record, I believe it's dangerous; the system is set up to allow for defendants to rigorously defend against allegations, and the premise is that it's better for ten guilty men to go free than even one innocent man be put in jail.  But as to your point, I don't know that those people are or aren't the same.  There's a pretty strong anti-Trump contingent - in places you'd expect for more objectivity - that believe"if you're innocent...".   For every Trump statement about witch hunt, there's some pundit - to include anchors, experts, and current Congressmen - on CNN saying about Trump, Giuliani, anyone who is balking at kowtowing to Adam Schiff's committee "why do that if you have nothing to hide?  If the call was "perfect" <make sure you say that in your head in that mocking, condescending "we all know that call wasn't fucking perfect, you dolt" voice> why not talk about it? Just come in, answer our questions, and we'll be done with it!". Jake Tapper is going to need a chiropractor for shaking his head in contempt at exactly that.  Seemingly oblivious to the fact that we saw this movie already.  We saw it during Mueller, we saw it during Kavanaugh, that it's NEVER going to be "done with". "Let's just appoint the Special Prosecutor".  <After the report exonerated him on 'collusion' and said not enough evidence on obstruction> "Let's just dig a little deeper".  With Kavanaugh, "Let's just pause for a hearing, that's it."  <During the hearing> "Let's just pause for a short FBI investigation." <After the investigation came back clean-ish> "Let's just expand the investigation a little more."  And in before anyone grossly oversimplifies this (because apparently I have to address every possible permutation of it else I be "biased"), it happened with Hillary as well, with her emails. It's the exact same thing, and if it was wrong there, it's wrong here, too (with one exception; she testified under oath; if it turns out her testimony was perjured, it HAS to be pursued, as it should if and when Trump perjures himself).   In general though, it will NEVER end.   As long as we accept it in general, and don't recognize this is not a Trump phenomenon, why should we single him out to be responsible? 

Switching gears here, but you'll get the analogy even if others won't:  I was in a marriage for 15 years. After a period of time, I got to being very careful with information.  Not bank accounts and stuff, but feelings, dreams, thoughts, ideas.   And, with help, it became clear to me that subconsciously I realized I couldn't trust my partner with that information.  Not that she'd blab to the world (though she would) or lie about it later (though she would) but that it would be weaponized.  It would be used against me, or used to mock me, or used for advantage later.   It's almost dizzying the parallels here.  It's happening on both sides, of course, but we're not talking about all sides now, we're talking about TRUMP.  If I was his lawyer I'd be doing the EXACT same thing; do not cooperate even a little bit, unless you absolutely have to.   Sure there might be some "damage" down the line, but the real damage has already been done.  This is surgery after a shotgun blast in terms of damage.  But the zeal to be done with Trump is so strong now, that it can't be tamed and there's no reason that Trump should help feed it (even if he is in other ways). 

Offline Stadler

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Re: How much do you trust the news media (here in the States)?
« Reply #107 on: December 29, 2019, 09:49:35 AM »
So... watching Meet The Press with Chuck Todd this morning, and it's so exasperating.   The sanctimony and arrogance here - and by extension, the obliviousness - is almost awe-inspiring.

I'm 25 minutes in, and it's all "Fox News" and "conservatives" - literally, they are talking about conservatives like they are an alien race - with zero culpability on the part of the press themselves. Maddening. 

I actually wrote a comment to Chuck Todd on the Meet The Press website; I doubt it will make an impact, but I certainly feel better.  :)

Offline Stadler

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Re: How much do you trust the news media (here in the States)?
« Reply #108 on: January 02, 2020, 11:29:36 AM »
Listening to CNN; breaking news that the Pentagon apparently had concerns about the withholding of the military aid to Ukraine.

According to Kate Bolduin the money was "withheld waiting for the announcement of an investigation into his political rival, Joe Biden".   WOW.  Talk about cutting to the chase.  No equivocation, no acknowledgement that any tribunal has actually weighed in on those allegations, no mention of Hunter Biden (NOT a political rival), no discussion of the questionable proof that it was only the announcement as opposed to the actual investigation...   nothing like being factual and fair.   Guilt by accusation strikes again.

(Which of course, would be fine for a lay person, or a person on either side of the dispute; but NOT for the "fair and impartial", "most trusted news source" journalists that are paid for delivering facts and information, not innuendo and supposition.)

Offline kaos2900

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Re: How much do you trust the news media (here in the States)?
« Reply #109 on: January 03, 2020, 06:47:30 AM »
CNN has somehow become worse that MSNBC and Fox. They appear incapable of delivering 'news'. Even their coverage of us blowing up the Iranian terrorist is being presented as nothing more than Trump incompetence.

Offline Elite

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Re: How much do you trust the news media (here in the States)?
« Reply #110 on: January 03, 2020, 07:48:30 AM »
CNN has somehow become worse that MSNBC and Fox. They appear incapable of delivering 'news'. Even their coverage of us blowing up the Iranian terrorist is being presented as nothing more than Trump incompetence.

But, quite frankly, it is? With heated tension in the Middle East, this doesn’t do anything to create peace. In fact, it makes matters a lot worse. Unnecessary escalation (which this very much is, even if the man in question is a ‘terrorist’, he’s a high ranking military official) is never a good idea and screams incompetence.
Hey dude slow the fuck down so we can finish together at the same time.  :biggrin:
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Offline Chino

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Re: How much do you trust the news media (here in the States)?
« Reply #111 on: January 03, 2020, 11:04:50 AM »
This is the type of "news" that really irks me. There's plenty of legitimate stuff to report on. This is just baiting and getting people angry over nothing.

https://amp.businessinsider.com/trump-ate-ice-cream-and-meatloaf-after-iraq-airstrike-2020-1?utm_source=reddit.com

Quote
President Donald Trump was enjoying an all-American meal at Mar-a-Lago when news broke that Iranian Maj. Gen. Qassem Soleimani had been killed in a drone strike in Baghdad on Thursday night.

CNN's Kaitlan Collins reported on Friday that meatloaf and ice cream were being served when the Pentagon confirmed that the US was behind the airstrike.

Trump was eating at his Florida club with old friends and politicians, including House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, Collins said.

The report about his meal harks back to when Trump ordered an airstrike on a Syrian airfield in 2017 and told Chinese President Xi Jinping of the news over dinner at Mar-a-Lago.

After that strike, Trump made sure to detail the cake they had eaten, calling it "the most beautiful piece of chocolate cake that you've ever seen."

World leaders, including those from France, the UK, and Russia, have largely condemned the US drone strike. National-security experts worry that killing Soleimani could lead Iran to retaliate against the US.

That post current has just shy of 500 upvotes on Reddit.

Online Adami

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Re: How much do you trust the news media (here in the States)?
« Reply #112 on: January 03, 2020, 11:07:48 AM »
HE DID WHAT?!?! That bastard.

I bet 20 bucks....20 BUCKS....that at some point after hearing about the airstrike, dude took a dump.

I mean, I assume, unless he has a Kim Jong Un thing going on down there.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: How much do you trust the news media (here in the States)?
« Reply #113 on: January 03, 2020, 11:55:06 AM »
CNN has somehow become worse that MSNBC and Fox. They appear incapable of delivering 'news'. Even their coverage of us blowing up the Iranian terrorist is being presented as nothing more than Trump incompetence.

But, quite frankly, it is? With heated tension in the Middle East, this doesn’t do anything to create peace. In fact, it makes matters a lot worse. Unnecessary escalation (which this very much is, even if the man in question is a ‘terrorist’, he’s a high ranking military official) is never a good idea and screams incompetence.

Doesn't matter if it is or not; that's in the eye of the beerholder.  We have done this, for better or worse, before, including during the last Administration.  If YOU think it's incompetence, fair enough, I respect your opinion, but that's not CNN's job to pander to the opinions of one segment of the population and in so doing feed their (self-rationalized) hate of our President (I am not directing that last comment at you).  Their job, as JOURNALISTS, is to present the facts, present the context for those facts, perhaps posit counter-arguments, and pose questions for US, the viewer, to decide given the totality of the evidence.  They are SO far beyond that at this time, it's ridiculous. 

Offline Stadler

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Re: How much do you trust the news media (here in the States)?
« Reply #114 on: January 03, 2020, 12:05:35 PM »
This is the type of "news" that really irks me. There's plenty of legitimate stuff to report on. This is just baiting and getting people angry over nothing.

https://amp.businessinsider.com/trump-ate-ice-cream-and-meatloaf-after-iraq-airstrike-2020-1?utm_source=reddit.com

Quote
President Donald Trump was enjoying an all-American meal at Mar-a-Lago when news broke that Iranian Maj. Gen. Qassem Soleimani had been killed in a drone strike in Baghdad on Thursday night.

CNN's Kaitlan Collins reported on Friday that meatloaf and ice cream were being served when the Pentagon confirmed that the US was behind the airstrike.

Trump was eating at his Florida club with old friends and politicians, including House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, Collins said.

The report about his meal harks back to when Trump ordered an airstrike on a Syrian airfield in 2017 and told Chinese President Xi Jinping of the news over dinner at Mar-a-Lago.

After that strike, Trump made sure to detail the cake they had eaten, calling it "the most beautiful piece of chocolate cake that you've ever seen."

World leaders, including those from France, the UK, and Russia, have largely condemned the US drone strike. National-security experts worry that killing Soleimani could lead Iran to retaliate against the US.

That post current has just shy of 500 upvotes on Reddit.

Harry Truman was aboard a ship (the U.S.S. Augusta) returning to Washington, D.C. from the Potsdam Conference in Germany when the Enola Gay ran it's historic mission in August of 1945.  He ate dinner, and while the rest of his entourage watched a movie, he retired to his cabin, and went to sleep early.  The next morning, he woke and rested on deck while the ship's band played.

Offline Stadler

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Re: How much do you trust the news media (here in the States)?
« Reply #115 on: January 03, 2020, 12:41:25 PM »
Brooke Baldwin has just spent the last 20 minutes on "General Soleimani, the man", including one in-field reporter (Clarissa Ward) talking eloquently of the "cult-like heroic persona" of Soleimani, recounting how she was "taken" by the many images of him across the city of Tehran, and recounting how he would frequently walk around reciting poetry to all who would listen.

Are you KIDDING me?   I get understanding, I get communicating who this guy was and what his importance is, but in context.  Painting him as this exalted figure, while juxtaposing with Adam Schiff's "serious concerns" about this event, and running a piece on the legality of Trump's actions paints a VERY clear picture. 

Offline Stadler

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Re: How much do you trust the news media (here in the States)?
« Reply #116 on: January 06, 2020, 10:01:10 AM »
I could literally do this every day of the week.  Today, the narrative is the completely sensible and obvious resolution (not yet drafted, relevant since we're discussing - or rather assuming - the content of that resolution) curbing the assumed insanity of the President, and how the only roadblock here is the Republican-held Senate (not yet voted, relevant since we're discussing - or rather assuming - the outcome of that vote).   

Kate Bolduin even evoked a "terrifying" to describe the situation, alluded to the failure of Trump to "comply with the law", and (via her guest) raised the spectre of war crimes. 

I'm at a loss here, frankly.   He complied with the law.  He acted, as Commander In Chief and as EVERY President (except Ford) since Truman has done, and he followed through, as the law requires, with the requisite notice to Congress within 48 hours.  He's following CONGRESS'S LAW.  Whether you think the attack stupid or not is another matter entirely (I'm not a fan of the action myself, though that's irrelevant); argue that on it's merits, but don't play shady games to make your point, and more importantly our Fourth Estate shouldn't be furthering that specious narrative. 

(To steal Dave's schtick, your daily reminder that FOX NEWS is biased and corrupt, furthering an agenda, and overtly influencing American political opinions.)

Offline Stadler

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Re: How much do you trust the news media (here in the States)?
« Reply #117 on: January 10, 2020, 12:41:47 PM »
Brook Baldwin just asked John Kerry, former Secretary of State under President Obama (and primary shepherd of the JCPOA, the Iran nuclear deal that Trump unilaterally pulled out of upon taking office) whether the current President was "credible".   Hard-hitting journalism, folks.  Getting to the heart of the facts.  I don't know how we can function without this imperative line of inquiry. 

Shockingly, he said "no". 

Offline The Walrus

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Re: How much do you trust the news media (here in the States)?
« Reply #118 on: January 10, 2020, 12:46:11 PM »
Why you continue to choose to focus on mid-day CNN anchors out of all the great sources for journalism out there baffles me. I don't get it, other than that it serves as an exercise in personal frustration for you. You're preaching to the clouds, and the choir is exchanging awkward glances amongst themselves. Hell even by CNN's standards, Brooke Baldwin is toward the bottom of the barrel.
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Offline Harmony

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Re: How much do you trust the news media (here in the States)?
« Reply #119 on: January 10, 2020, 12:59:46 PM »
Brook Baldwin just asked John Kerry, former Secretary of State under President Obama (and primary shepherd of the JCPOA, the Iran nuclear deal that Trump unilaterally pulled out of upon taking office) whether the current President was "credible".

What a stupid question.  Anyone with half a brain knows that someone who constantly lies, obfuscates, deflects, and projects is someone who isn't credible.  Duh.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: How much do you trust the news media (here in the States)?
« Reply #120 on: January 10, 2020, 01:12:29 PM »
Brook Baldwin just asked John Kerry, former Secretary of State under President Obama (and primary shepherd of the JCPOA, the Iran nuclear deal that Trump unilaterally pulled out of upon taking office) whether the current President was "credible".

What a stupid question.  Anyone with half a brain knows that someone who constantly lies, obfuscates, deflects, and projects is someone who isn't credible.  Duh.

But they keep having him on the network.  Kerry appears more often than virtually any other Obama cabinet member.   

:) :) :)

(I'm just playing with you; I know what you meant.  My point was more about WHY; what does that do to further the goal of "journalism"?  How does that further our collective knowledge as opposed to just pandering to a point of view?)

Offline Stadler

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Re: How much do you trust the news media (here in the States)?
« Reply #121 on: January 10, 2020, 01:19:05 PM »
Why you continue to choose to focus on mid-day CNN anchors out of all the great sources for journalism out there baffles me. I don't get it, other than that it serves as an exercise in personal frustration for you. You're preaching to the clouds, and the choir is exchanging awkward glances amongst themselves. Hell even by CNN's standards, Brooke Baldwin is toward the bottom of the barrel.

Because it makes me feel good, and it's a sort of "sport".  The exercise of typing it out diffuses the anger and frustration of the constant talk about the "hypcrisy" and "bias" of the Republicans, of Trump, and Fox News when there's certainly enough hypocrisy and bias to go around.  Certainly there is no one on CNN at the level of Sean Hannity, but at the next level, it's as bad or worse on CNN. 

I say this generically, not to any person on this board or in this thread - but you know how there are threshold questions by which you can tell certain things about a person and their general knowledge/information?  Well, asking about "Fox News" or "CNN" is starting to be that for me. 

Offline El Barto

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Re: How much do you trust the news media (here in the States)?
« Reply #122 on: January 10, 2020, 01:19:57 PM »
Isn't credibility subjective? All people are credible in some areas while not so much in others. Ask Trump a question about American politics and he has zero credibility. Ask him about banging his hot daughter and I might be inclined to take him at his word. But in any case, I'd say American credibility is very much a valid topic when it comes to pulling out of treaties we signed in good faith. This sounds like fair game to me.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: How much do you trust the news media (here in the States)?
« Reply #123 on: January 10, 2020, 01:39:44 PM »
Without question.  I think my point was that it wasn't about that agreement specifically (although bet your ass Kerry mentioned it in his answer), it was literally as I wrote it.   "We welcome guest, former Secretary Of State John Kerry to the program.  Secretary Kerry, in your opinion, is the current President credible?"   No preamble - though the previous discussion was about the justification of Soleimani's death - just an open-ended question.

I think generally the fears of Trump over the past three years have been somewhat overblown, but one has not:  we have seen a systematic, programmatic, hydromatic decrease in the credibility of people and entities of power in politics.   Of course, the anti-Trump line of thinking is that Trump has removed credibility of his office, has tarnished the credibility of the press, and as such as categorically reduced credibility across the board.

I disagree with that causation.  Certainly Trump is responsible for his own credibility, and certainly is responsible for the credibility of his Administration.   The subtext of these posts is that the press themselves have contributed at least in kind, if not more, in the reduction of their own credibility.  Trump crying "Fake News"TM gives a feeble rationalization to those already inclined to disagree with them.  Even when he attacks Fox News when they don't "support" him, he is merely giving an out to the faithful to still support HIM.   But Brook Baldwin, Van Jones, Don Lemon, Jake Tapper, Jim Sciuto, Jim Acosta, Chuck Todd, etc. rise to the bait and start playing what are ersatz "Fox News" tactics, they are demeaning their OWN profession.  They are themselves reducing their own credibility, and they don't then get to point fingers at "Fox News" as being responsible.

(By the way, not a small point; early on, CNN would refer to Fox News as "other networks".  "Other networks are reporting..."   "A report from another network..."    Now?   With the same head nod and eye roll, it's "Fox News is saying....".   


Offline The Walrus

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Re: How much do you trust the news media (here in the States)?
« Reply #124 on: January 10, 2020, 01:56:11 PM »
The fears of Trump have indeed been overblown. Why should we care about the things he says or does when we could care about Brooke Baldwin instead?

That's sarcasm.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: How much do you trust the news media (here in the States)?
« Reply #125 on: January 10, 2020, 01:59:29 PM »
I don't know if this belongs here:

Are you f-----g kidding me.

Let's completely absolve her of an almost open contempt for the dignities and traditions of the crown - whatever you might say about them - and ignore her choices in her life or the consequences of her actions.  Based on the 1,200 years (plus/minus) of the Crown, and their protocol for doing business, I find it hard to believe that their "anger" is because she's (half) black and not at all from the fact that they supposedly did not inform them before the announcement or their general rejection of the role of the Royal family.

Look, whether you agree with the traditions or not, I thought from day one that she was out of line in her rejection of them.  Not because she is (half) black, or a woman; honestly, the "American" was more likely a part of this for me.   If you don't want to be told what to wear by the Queen, don't marry into the monarchy. I get that Harry didn't choose this, but nonetheless, he's a part of it.  I didn't choose to be 5'8" and born to a Polack with no one famous anywhere in their family tree either, but it is what it is.  And if with all that, you (and your spouse) decide that you ARE going to push back on that which is imposed on you, face it like an adult and accept the consequences.  "Race" isn't a part of it.   (And yes, I am old enough to remember his mom; she bristled at the same sort of restraints and requirements, but handled it with a level of class that was admirable, and a large part of her charm.  Hers is one of the few celebrity deaths I can remember exactly where I was and what I was doing when I learned of it.)

Offline El Barto

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Re: How much do you trust the news media (here in the States)?
« Reply #126 on: January 10, 2020, 02:04:01 PM »
It doesn't. 

Analysis by Lisa Respers France, CNN

I was of the opinion we were disregarding editorial content, and this obviously qualifies.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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Offline The Walrus

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Re: How much do you trust the news media (here in the States)?
« Reply #127 on: January 10, 2020, 02:05:21 PM »
It doesn't. 

Analysis by Lisa Respers France, CNN

I was of the opinion we were disregarding editorial content, and this obviously qualifies.

Hah. I was just going to ask, "Who f&*%ing CARES?!"  :lol
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Offline Stadler

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Re: How much do you trust the news media (here in the States)?
« Reply #128 on: January 10, 2020, 02:06:08 PM »
The fears of Trump have indeed been overblown. Why should we care about the things he says or does when we could care about Brooke Baldwin instead?

That's sarcasm.

But you don't get a sarcastic answer:  Because Trump has a shelf-life.  I promise you, by hook or by crook, he WILL be gone.  It might be a month, it might be 12 months, it might be five years, but he WILL be gone.   Brook Baldwin, or rather, her role of journalist, will not.  It's, as claimed, a part of our democracy.  The Fourth Estate.   So how our journalists act and operate today, without any recourse or scrutiny, is laying the ground work for how they will act with the next President, the next President after that, and on and on. 

What about the next President?  What if they are Presidential, credible, trust-worthy, and with integrity; but happen to be, oh, pro-life.  Or for a hard-line on immigration.  Or a hawk when it comes to Middle Eastern terrorism.   Does Chuck Todd or Jake Tapper get to continue their head nods and eye-rolls?   Does Brook Baldwin - a supposedly "trusted" journalist (there is no "party" in "journalist") - get to call his adversary in and say "So, does President Perfect have any credibility?" while simultaneously assuming the answer?  I think not, in a functioning democracy that intends to survive another 240 years. 

Offline Stadler

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Re: How much do you trust the news media (here in the States)?
« Reply #129 on: January 10, 2020, 02:10:38 PM »
It doesn't. 

Analysis by Lisa Respers France, CNN

I was of the opinion we were disregarding editorial content, and this obviously qualifies.

Hah. I was just going to ask, "Who f&*%ing CARES?!"  :lol

Well, El Barto has a fair point; it is an opinion piece.  But "who cares"?  You don't care about the general zeitgeist, and how these actions are viewed and interpreted by a significant portion of our population?  It's not why I put it here (I put it here because it was a network analysis of a major news event) but I see ZERO difference between Trump screaming "Fake News!" and this editor crying "Race!" to explain things they find subjectively unjust.   In both cases it serves to obfuscate, if not outright negate, a more substantive discussion of the underlying facts.  In both cases (albeit in different ways) it serves to minimize personal accountability and create a victim, at the hands of a larger, likely un-targetable 'beast'. 

Offline The Walrus

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Re: How much do you trust the news media (here in the States)?
« Reply #130 on: January 10, 2020, 02:13:46 PM »
The fears of Trump have indeed been overblown. Why should we care about the things he says or does when we could care about Brooke Baldwin instead?

That's sarcasm.

But you don't get a sarcastic answer:  Because Trump has a shelf-life.  I promise you, by hook or by crook, he WILL be gone.  It might be a month, it might be 12 months, it might be five years, but he WILL be gone.   Brook Baldwin, or rather, her role of journalist, will not.  It's, as claimed, a part of our democracy.  The Fourth Estate.   So how our journalists act and operate today, without any recourse or scrutiny, is laying the ground work for how they will act with the next President, the next President after that, and on and on. 

What about the next President?  What if they are Presidential, credible, trust-worthy, and with integrity; but happen to be, oh, pro-life.  Or for a hard-line on immigration.  Or a hawk when it comes to Middle Eastern terrorism.   Does Chuck Todd or Jake Tapper get to continue their head nods and eye-rolls?   Does Brook Baldwin - a supposedly "trusted" journalist (there is no "party" in "journalist") - get to call his adversary in and say "So, does President Perfect have any credibility?" while simultaneously assuming the answer?  I think not, in a functioning democracy that intends to survive another 240 years.

Brother, I both understand and (to an extent) agree with you, I'm just busting your balls. 'sall good man.

I think this president brings on a lot of well-deserved eyerolls. Frankly he deserves a lot worse for a lot of the things he says and does. Sorry, not sorry. He is fundamentally different from any president we've had in the modern era (I'm thinking, from the advent of television in the 20th century through present day) and not for the better or in a good way. He says some flat-out stupid shit. Who cares if the pundits roll their eyes? I think the pundits have enough 'common sense' in their skulls - most of them - to differentiate between a president who is carefully measuring his words, and one who just spouts off at the drop of a hat without any intellect behind his thoughts.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 02:19:11 PM by Kattelox »
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Offline Stadler

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Re: How much do you trust the news media (here in the States)?
« Reply #131 on: January 10, 2020, 03:26:10 PM »
Of course he does.  I agree.  It's impossible to watch one of those "campaign stops" or whatever he's calling them without wanting to kick a puppy or rearrange the furniture by throwing it across the room.  That sing-song-y voice he uses to mock someone literally makes me have diarrhea.  I'm not joking. 

But I'm not a journalist, and my job isn't to present the facts as we know them so that other people can reach logical, sensible conclusions.   The point isn't the eye-rolling per se, it's the legitimization - the "normalization", since that was the buzzword du jour after his election - of the partisan viewpoint.    Jake doesn't limit his eye-rolling to Trump; it's often used for Republicans (individually) or the GOP (collectively)...   Doug Collins gets the same treatment.   This is important:  politicians that support Trump's POSITIONS get the same treatment.  There is no excuse - NONE - for an impartial, unbiased journalist to roll eyes at a policy decision.   

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Re: How much do you trust the news media (here in the States)?
« Reply #132 on: January 10, 2020, 05:07:54 PM »
Well, I again agree to an extent, but that's conveniently leaping over a LOT of stuff the republican party has done that deserves eyerolls (and then some). Look at Lindsey Graham, whose principles are about as rigid as the flailing tube guy in the front of the strip mall. Guy's a toady. And that's just one person.
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Re: How much do you trust the news media (here in the States)?
« Reply #133 on: January 10, 2020, 11:03:29 PM »
Well, I again agree to an extent, but that's conveniently leaping over a LOT of stuff the republican party has done that deserves eyerolls (and then some). Look at Lindsey Graham, whose principles are about as rigid as the flailing tube guy in the front of the strip mall. Guy's a toady. And that's just one person.

Of course.  No question.  If a politician acts like a toady, or does something that deserves eye-rolls, report it, without regard to whether there is an "R" or a "D" next to their name and let us, the citizenry, decide how that fits into our ideological or moral register.  I don't need Jake Tapper cueing me on what my reaction to news ought to be.  I recognize I am the minority here, both on this point and what I'm about to say, but I'm fine with that.  I find just as many things to eye-roll on both sides of the aisle.  Yes they are different, in some ways, but that's not to say that the NEWS OUTLETS that bill themselves as "Fair And Balanced" and "The Most Trusted Source For News" ought to make that distinction for us. 


Offline Harmony

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Re: How much do you trust the news media (here in the States)?
« Reply #134 on: January 19, 2020, 11:35:09 AM »
You don't care about the general zeitgeist, and how these actions are viewed and interpreted by a significant portion of our population?  It's not why I put it here (I put it here because it was a network analysis of a major news event) but I see ZERO difference between Trump screaming "Fake News!" and this editor crying "Race!" to explain things they find subjectively unjust.   In both cases it serves to obfuscate, if not outright negate, a more substantive discussion of the underlying facts.  In both cases (albeit in different ways) it serves to minimize personal accountability and create a victim, at the hands of a larger, likely un-targetable 'beast'.

Just curious about this.  Do we know for a fact that race doesn't play into all of this in any way?  I mean, I don't know that.  I don't live in England.  I don't know much about the royal family personally.  I don't know Meghan and Harry nor the things they've seen, heard, and experienced being a couple of mixed race.  Do you?  Does the author of that opinion piece?

I'm sort of borderline caring about the whole thing.  In my opinion (and that's just what it is, an opinion) I find it commendable that Harry - while realizing his part of the monarchy cog is next to zero AND after watching his mother be treated horribly by the press - is willing to dump the whole charade all together and support his wife and child in whatever way necessary to keep his family happy.  Isn't that what being married is supposed to be about?

I sure hear a lot of how Meghan made her bed, now she should lie in it.  Does anyone really know what they are getting into when they get married?  Everything?  The good, the bad, the ugly?  Royal family notwithstanding?  I mean, the divorce rate is what again?  Could it be that people get married because they love someone and don't really see every single possible downside and consequence down the road a few years?  I don't know...is it possible that this isn't all on her (as Piers Morgan would have us believe) but is really about Harry protecting his wife and child?  Or that - god forbid! - together Harry and Meghan reached the decision about how they would like to live their married lives and what fucking business is it of ours?
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Re: How much do you trust the news media (here in the States)?
« Reply #135 on: January 19, 2020, 02:36:37 PM »
in Canada, since it seems they will be moving here, the debate has been raging non-stop as to who will pay for their security detail. 

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Re: How much do you trust the news media (here in the States)?
« Reply #136 on: January 19, 2020, 03:15:32 PM »
You don't care about the general zeitgeist, and how these actions are viewed and interpreted by a significant portion of our population?  It's not why I put it here (I put it here because it was a network analysis of a major news event) but I see ZERO difference between Trump screaming "Fake News!" and this editor crying "Race!" to explain things they find subjectively unjust.   In both cases it serves to obfuscate, if not outright negate, a more substantive discussion of the underlying facts.  In both cases (albeit in different ways) it serves to minimize personal accountability and create a victim, at the hands of a larger, likely un-targetable 'beast'.

Just curious about this.  Do we know for a fact that race doesn't play into all of this in any way?  I mean, I don't know that.  I don't live in England.  I don't know much about the royal family personally.  I don't know Meghan and Harry nor the things they've seen, heard, and experienced being a couple of mixed race.  Do you?  Does the author of that opinion piece?

I'm sort of borderline caring about the whole thing.  In my opinion (and that's just what it is, an opinion) I find it commendable that Harry - while realizing his part of the monarchy cog is next to zero AND after watching his mother be treated horribly by the press - is willing to dump the whole charade all together and support his wife and child in whatever way necessary to keep his family happy.  Isn't that what being married is supposed to be about?

I sure hear a lot of how Meghan made her bed, now she should lie in it.  Does anyone really know what they are getting into when they get married?  Everything?  The good, the bad, the ugly?  Royal family notwithstanding?  I mean, the divorce rate is what again?  Could it be that people get married because they love someone and don't really see every single possible downside and consequence down the road a few years?  I don't know...is it possible that this isn't all on her (as Piers Morgan would have us believe) but is really about Harry protecting his wife and child?  Or that - god forbid! - together Harry and Meghan reached the decision about how they would like to live their married lives and what fucking business is it of ours?

You're, of course, 100% correct.   But there's not a lot of consideration to ANY of that in that article.  I have asked this of someone I know who is British, and it's my belief that he feels race IS a significant part of it. Not all of it, but a big part. (For the record, I'm not quoting him, or putting words in his mouth; I am merely relating what I took from the conversation, and any errors in that interpretation are mine and mine alone).  ME? I don't know.  I'm not there, and I haven't spoken personally to any of the interested parties. 

And in case it's not clear, my PUBLIC position is that they can do what they want if they are willing to accept the consequences.  It appears they are (though there is at least some information that seems to indicate that they didn't fully think this through), so it is what it is.  My PRIVATE position - my opinion - is that we don't always have an infinite number of choices available to us at all times.  We sometimes make choices, and while we don't always know the full extent of the consequences, there are some decisions that don't give us the opportunity to say "well, I didn't know!".  There are plenty of people to ask (Kate; the Queen; other Princesses).  There is plenty of precedent.  Marrying into the Crown is not a casual thing; there are undoubtedly resources and information available to her that you and I don't have.  My gut tells me race is one of many, many variables at play here, I think if anything it doesn't explain the reaction itself, but perhaps the intensity of the reaction. 

I also think - PUBLICLY - that author can write what she wants and can get published. I think PRIVATELY that not every idea is equal, and some require more care than others.  The "race" argument is a metaphorical "gun", and needs to be wielded judiciously.  I don't think that this was the case here.

Offline Stadler

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Re: How much do you trust the news media (here in the States)?
« Reply #137 on: January 23, 2020, 07:06:05 AM »
Here's one that I think everyone can get behind, regardless of your persuasion or leaning.

Watching CNN with John Berman, and Sheldon Whitehouse was on (again).  And the host showed a picture of Whitehouse, Schiff and Lindsey Graham, with Graham shaking hands with Schiff.   You'd think it was a photo of Britney's hooha as she got into a friend's Mercedes. The host was fishing for controversy, clearly looking for something to expose Graham as some sort of hypocrite.  Whitehouse, to his credit, answered calmly, noting that he, Schiff and Graham are all lawyers, all are former prosectuors, and it was, as Whitehouse put it, a "human moment", catagorized Graham and Schiff as "adversaries and friends", and described the exchange as a "professional compliment by another prosecutor".   

When even the PRESS is expecting these men/women, colleagues and peers to not even be civil, where have we gotten to?   It was a matter of common knowledge that politics used to have a public face - personal, adversarial, sensational - and a private face - cordial, respectful, pragmatic.  The stories of Tip O'Neil, Speaker of the House, and his Minority colleague giving press conferences then meeting in private over a scotch to strike a deal are the stuff of legend.  There's even a famous exchange between O'Neil and Reagan, where O'Neil held a press conference and called Reagan ignorant, yet in private, they weren't exactly friends, but were on cordial terms.  The famous quote, by Reagan, was that they were friends "after 6PM", and O'Neil commented that "before 6PM it's all politics".

If even passing, public exchanges between adversaries are going to be treated as news, what hope for any real, meaningful compromise?  And how does John Berman not know that and/or promote that controversy in good conscience? 

Offline The Walrus

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Re: How much do you trust the news media (here in the States)?
« Reply #138 on: January 23, 2020, 07:12:44 AM »
You think asking a question is trying to get someone to be uncivil?
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Offline Stadler

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Re: How much do you trust the news media (here in the States)?
« Reply #139 on: January 23, 2020, 08:04:26 AM »
You think asking a question is trying to get someone to be uncivil?

No, though to be fair I don't think I fully understand your question.   

The point was that the CNN host was almost HOPING for the incivility.  He was clearly fishing for a way to either disparage Graham for hypocrisy, or to use the photo as some kind of sign that Graham was somehow betraying the Republican cause, baiting Whitehouse into being the catalyst fort that discussion.  Whitehouse was too smart and too much a gentleman to bite, but still.  Rather than calm the situation, rather than being the adults in the room bringing the sides together through reason and understanding, it's rabble-rousing, like Vince McMahon on Monday Night Raw.   

Bear in mind that the running subtext of the CNN broadcast over the past week and a half or so is VERY CLEARLY "Democrats: reasonable, sound and logically unassailable, almost inevitable move to remove a criminal, corrupt, lying scumbag from office, Republicans: ridiculous, corrupt, lying, spineless sychophants grasping at straws to stay on the track of  flushing our country down the integrity toilet bowl".    Yesterday, Jim Sciuto gave George Conway almost three unfettered hours, letting him sit in on the panel on air, to offer his partisan, inflammatory opinion all along the way, whereas today, Robert Ray (part of Trump's legal defense team) was shuffled on and shuffled off, amid Scuitto's constant interruptions (and a final shot of "small fact check there!" after Sciutto's final words without any opportunity for Ray to refute them).   

I think this is a good time to remind: this isn't Stadler's form of partisanship. This is a daily (sort of) reminder that the BIPARTISAN, OBJECTIVE, TRUSTWORTHY press, so-called Fourth Estate and vital component to democracy (at least that's the argument against Trump attacking them) is not just not stopping the partisan bickering, but ACTIVELY fomenting it.  I honestly don't care if a news outlet is partisan or not, but DON'T PRETEND OTHERWISE.   Don't hide behind the "freedom of the press" banner, don't posit yourself as an integral part of the democracy of this Republic if you're going to wallow in the same mud as those you're supposedly exposing.