Boxing / UFC / MMA

[kirksnosehair]

That's starting to be a common injury, it seems...


So did the fight end because of that leg injury?  (Sorry if that's a dumb question).

Well, not really.  They were kind of letting him keep going but then Poirier nailed him with a couple of really solid shots to the head and McGregor was on the ropes and not even defending himself so the ref stepped in to stop it.  Poirier's team is saying that Poirier broke McGregor's leg when he blocked one of McGregor's kicks.  But of course they'd say that.  I only caught the highlights not the entire fight, which was only 1 round, I think.

[crazy climber dude]

That's starting to be a common injury, it seems...


So did the fight end because of that leg injury?  (Sorry if that's a dumb question).

Yes, it ended. Not a dumb question since my guess is you were thinking more in terms of how the end of the fight was decided TECHNICALLY. As it was happening live, Herb Dean's assessment was to just stop the fight, period. So at that point, since McGregor is simply sitting on his ass (understandably...nobody that understands mixed martial arts is questioning the grit of any  UFC fighter, including McGregor) pointing at his leg AND could not continue to fight....it was deemed a TKO (could not continue). But McGregor was (literally) screaming (among other things) about was that it should be considered a doctor's stoppage, so it didn't look like he got his ass kicked (which he clearly was toward the latter half of the round). Not sure if they changed the designation because of his lobbying, but it's really a moot point to anyone who watched that round with an objective eye. I'm sure he was hoping it would be changed to a "no contest" because of injury (therefore not being officially counted as a loss), but that certainly would not apply in this case. That is reserved for fighters who sustains injuries due to something illegal the other fighter put forth. Poirier simply "checked" the kick....that is to say he blocked the primary force of the kick to the shin/calf by lifting his leg to a particular angle that creates more impact to the kicker than the "kickee". That impact was what ostensibly broke his leg.

And you're right, it's becoming more common among aging fighters. Some of it is the relative deterioration of the bone naturally, but it can also be attributed to poor technique by the kicker.....and precise defense by the opponent. Anderson Silva did it several years ago....ironically to this man, Chris Weidman, who kicked Uriah Hall so hard a few months ago he had a DOUBLE compound fracture (immediately)....and didn't even know it until he stepped on it. As graphic as the McGregor photo is....it's not as shockingly visceral as the video of Weidman's injury. I get queasy just thinking about it, and I don't recommend anyone view it at all, but if you're a vicarious sadist.....I would try to watch it with an empty stomach. 

[ReaperKK]

The Weidman leg break made me queasy. I remember watching it when it happened and I didn't register what happened and why they wouldn't pan the camera to him so I thought it was serious. Then the slow motion replays came on, simply brutal.

For those that haven't seen it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKAc1qPu9CU

[Mr.Mister]

Anyone watching the couple of PPVs? The cards are STACKED to say the least: 5 championship bouts in a 6 week span. Not to mention fight nights are looking strong too.

I'm fairly new to the sport (~3 years) but this seems to be one of the most competitive times for UFC.

[crazy climber dude]

Anyone watching the couple of PPVs? The cards are STACKED to say the least: 5 championship bouts in a 6 week span. Not to mention fight nights are looking strong too.

I'm fairly new to the sport (~3 years) but this seems to be one of the most competitive times for UFC.

Sorry I missed this earlier. Yes, Ortega Volkanovski was crazy....T City had him locked up several times and Volkanovski just refused to tap!

But you're right, the fight nights were also good....esp. the Dern Rodriguez card. I was surprised Dern could not submit Rodriguez when they were on the ground for over 4 minutes in the second round.

Disappointed in the Santos Walker fight...I thought there would be more fireworks. But both guys were tentative.

Costa vs Vettori should be good. Both guys coming off losses to Last Stylebender. The Costa loss was in September of 2020 and he has not fought since. I doubt if this fight will go the distance.

[El Barto]

No talk about Wylder/Fury two weeks ago. I randomly ate dinner at a sports bar in Niagara Falls that night and wound up hanging out there 'til 0100 to catch it. Probably wouldn't have bothered if I were home, but fate dropped me off in front of it, surrounded by excited Hosers, so it seemed like the thing to do. Good time and good fight. Pretty exciting opening 12 minutes. Don't recall seeing two boxers both knock each other down multiple times over the first 4 rounds before. It was like Hagler/Hearns if they were heavyweights. Beyond that it wasn't much of a fight. Honestly, Wylder had no business going out for the 11th. It was over and the only thing left to determine was if he lost on points or incurred some brain damage in the far more likely knockout. Either the ref or his corner should have called it after 10.

[King Postwhore]

I think pushing boxing to PPV has hurt the sport. These quick knock outs in the main events makes fans hesitant to spend the money. 

[crazy climber dude]

I realize this thread is not the most popular one.....but I was hoping to get feedback on the UFC judges from yesterday. Both the Vera-Sandhagen and the Andrea Lee vs Maycee Barber fight. Anyone watch these?

[MinistroRaven]

I realize this thread is not the most popular one.....but I was hoping to get feedback on the UFC judges from yesterday. Both the Vera-Sandhagen and the Andrea Lee vs Maycee Barber fight. Anyone watch these?

I watched the fights and while I may not completely agree with the final decisions made by the judges, I can understand why they were reached, as both fights were incredibly close and could have gone either way. Ultimately, the judges had a difficult task, and I respect their judgment even if I may have had a different view of the outcomes. Nonetheless, it was an exciting night of fights

[crazy climber dude]

I realize this thread is not the most popular one.....but I was hoping to get feedback on the UFC judges from yesterday. Both the Vera-Sandhagen and the Andrea Lee vs Maycee Barber fight. Anyone watch these?

I watched the fights and while I may not completely agree with the final decisions made by the judges, I can understand why they were reached, as both fights were incredibly close and could have gone either way. Ultimately, the judges had a difficult task, and I respect their judgment even if I may have had a different view of the outcomes. Nonetheless, it was an exciting night of fights

Well, the Lee-Barber fight was fairly close.....though I thought Lee won every round. The fans were booing during the octagon interview with Barber.

The Vera-Sandhagen fight was NOT CLOSE. That was the most egregious scoring....that it was a split decision? Sandhagen DOMINATED that fight. A lot of people had it 50-45 for him....including one of the judges. One had it 49-46 Sandhagen (which, even then I'm wondering what round he thought Vera won???). The 3rd judge had it 48-47, inexplicably, for Vera. Dana White expressed a lot of disbelief on that one.....saying in the press conference post fight "I came out of the bathroom, heard split decision and said to myself....what the fuck?"

I think when a fight is close, there's enough subjectivity to where you could see it going either way. But every metric favored Sandhagen by a WIDE margin (he had over twice the amount of significant strikes, almost 3 times total strikes, and had 3 takedowns to none....was not close) .....but also the eye test. You never thought Vera was even in the fight. He got in a few clean shots here and there....and then had a flurry in the last 20 seconds of the fight. But overall, about the only thing you could say for him is that he was moving forward. He was totally baffled by Sandhagen's lateral movements and stance changes.

However anyone views it, there's a consensus right now that the judges need more scrutiny/accountability. One of the judges for the Lee fight was referee Dan Mirgliotta (working that night, but not on this fight). He had it 30-27 Barber. That even drew the ire of former referee John McCarthy.....who said on his radio show that he didn't know what fight his former compatriot was watching.

[MinistroRaven]

After rewatching the fight, I can definitely see where you're coming from regarding the scoring, especially in the Vera-Sandhagen fight. It seems like Sandhagen was the clear winner, but the scoring didn't reflect that.

I completely agree that the judges need more scrutiny and accountability. It's frustrating to see fighters work so hard and then have the outcome of their fights be decided by questionable judging. Hopefully, this issue will be addressed and fixed soon.

[crazy climber dude]

After rewatching the fight, I can definitely see where you're coming from regarding the scoring, especially in the Vera-Sandhagen fight. It seems like Sandhagen was the clear winner, but the scoring didn't reflect that.

I completely agree that the judges need more scrutiny and accountability. It's frustrating to see fighters work so hard and then have the outcome of their fights be decided by questionable judging. Hopefully, this issue will be addressed and fixed soon.

Impressed that you rewatched and came to that conclusion. 100% about the frustration of the fighters! At least the rogue judge with the Sandhagen fight did not cost Cory the victory. With Lee, you could tell she was shocked at the decision. She was outstruck, but made up for that with 5 takedowns (to only 1 for Barber). No, she didn't do a whole lot as far as ground and pound, but was advancing and improving position. She had several minutes of top control. Barber on the other hand, could not keep Lee down.

Certainly the argument is valid.....don't leave it in the hands of the judges. Some fighters are technical and not necessarily finishers.....and often the other fighters are hard to KO or submit. But to be fair, she should not have been surprised by the decision. To her credit, though...she was very classy in bitter defeat. Barber.....although rather matter of fact about the outcome in her octagon interview....did acknowledge Lee as a super tough opponent.

I do feel bad for Lee....I think the frustration extends to the fans when they live vicariously through the sport (essence of a true fan). 

I think this is why a lot of fighters have left the UFC and gone to Bellator or One Championship (that, and more opportunity). One Championship, in particular....if the fight goes to a decision.....they judge the fights holistically, not round by round. That in and of itself does not mean there still won't be inequities, but I think it's a better way to score the fights.

[MinistroRaven]

Yeah, I totally rewatched that fight and d*mn, it was frustrating to see those judges make such a controversial call. But you know what, at least Sandhagen still got the win, so it wasn't a total disaster.

As for the Lee vs. Barber fight, man, that was a tough one. Lee definitely had some solid takedowns and control on the ground, but Barber was throwing some serious heat on the feet. And I gotta admit, I was a little surprised when they gave the decision to Barber, but hey, that's how it goes sometimes.

It's definitely tough when fights go to a decision, 'cause there's always the chance that the judges will mess it up. I totally get why some fighters are ditching the UFC and heading over to Bellator or One Championship.

For those not following One Championship, the holistic approach is basically that instead of scoring fights round by round, they judge fights taking into account the entire duration of the fight and considering factors like near finishes, striking superiority, and grappling dominance.

[Mr.Mister]

Anyone see the score cards for the Kai Kara France v. Amir Albazi fight over the weekend? One of the worst calls I've seen in a while.

[crazy climber dude]

Anyone see the score cards for the Kai Kara France v. Amir Albazi fight over the weekend? One of the worst calls I've seen in a while.

Sorry, there's so few posts here that I missed this earlier. Yeah, for sure....I thought Kara France won for sure. Jamaal Emmers was robbed against Jack Jenkins yesterday (though Jenkins fought well). I guess looking at it pragmatically....I'll quote MinistroRaven from his last post here---"but hey, that's how it goes sometimes".

But I guess that's my question....WHY does it go like that on the ones that seem pretty clear? Of course there is nuance, and things we don't see octagon side. But I wonder A) if the judges are paying close attention throughout the fights B) if they are competent enough in their assessments to make a discerning call on every fight C) if they are instructed to look for certain things in a fight and weigh them subjectively, instead of looking at the fight as a whole

On that last point, I have heard Rogan talk repeatedly about taking the entire fight into account. A fighter might squeak by with 2 rounds of better scoring, but get beat clearly in the other round (but not enough for a 10-8). I guess it's the same way in many other sports. A tennis player could lose more games total in a match, but win 2 sets to 1.

I've mentioned it before, but bears repeating to bolster this argument.....damage shouldn't always be the clear decider. Often it should be...esp. if it's damage done by clean and consistent or high volume striking. But some fighters through a few good punches or kicks in a fight...then do nothing the rest of the time. But the other fighter might be more prone to cutting or showing abrasions on the face (while other fighters get hit repeatedly with less marking). I don't think that's how "damage" should be assessed in many cases. Not saying there shouldn't be subjective evaluations, but I think it needs to be combined with more objective things like clean strikes that don't always show up on a fighter as damage.

To wrap up and emphasize one more thing.....it's funny how a narrative begins and it just becomes adopted almost colloquially as being a truth. For example, the whole "they took them down but didn't do any damage" thing. Not saying it isn't BETTER to do damage. But I think we just automatically dismiss the takedown as being NOTHING. That's not right. Taking someone down in and of itself is a skill, and yes....the other fighter should be noted when they get right back up and don't sustain damage. But they still did not stop the takedown. That should be a mark against them. To what extent is something worth discussing, but I think something that is one of the key scoring points (2 points) in a wrestling match (and yes, an escape is 1 point, I get it)....should have similar merit in an MMA fight. 

Speaking of yesterday, did anyone see the Trevor Peek vs Chepe Mariscal fight? Fight of the Year candidate. Crazy! Proof you don't need big name fighters for a fantastic fight.