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Started by MinistroRaven, July 20, 2019, 07:15:03 PM

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MinistroRaven

I don't know if there's a thread for these, but tonite I am watching Keith Thurman vs. Manny Pacquiao fight (for the belt) and thought to start one for all things fights.


MinistroRaven

Tonite I am watching UFC on FOX Sports and they have DT Our New World feat Lzzy Hale in the background. Someone on Fox Sports love DT because every weekend they play DT

crazy climber dude

Resurrecting this "unconscious" thread (such as it is) because:

1- I am a combat sports fan, esp. mma, and esp. UFC
2- Even though there were no replies from these two posts from well over a year old....wondering if there are new members who might be into these sports as well.

Was I wrong?

Phoenix87x

I used to have no interest in UFC, but after starting Jiu Jitsu its become way more interesting. Now that I know what's going on, lol

crazy climber dude

Quote from: Phoenix87x on January 28, 2021, 04:02:32 PM
I used to have no interest in UFC, but after starting Jiu Jitsu its become way more interesting. Now that I know what's going on, lol

Exactly where I was until I watched more and learned about the nuances. The analysts can really help a would be fan gain a better understanding.

I think a lot of people still equate the UFC as sheer carnage (which it certainly can be in any fight), but there are a lot of technical elements many of the fighters incorporate into their game (esp. when considering all of the different martial arts represented).

Anguyen92

The only big news I'm hearing is that Mcgregor lost his last fight and that one of the Paul Brothers from Youtube infamy is fighting Floyd Mayweather?  Yep.  That's all I got to contribute.  Sorry.

crazy climber dude

Sandhagen's flying knee on Frankie Edgar!  :hefdaddy

El Barto

I was always a Sugar Ray Leonard guy. Leonard/Hearns fight was the best fight I've ever seen. Throw in Roberto Duran and you've got a golden era for middleweights.  Hagler was certainly the best of them. He never really got the recognition that he deserved because people avoided fighting him, which was pretty understandable. He was the total package. He was known as a brawler, and excelled in that role. The Hearns/Hagler fight is one of the all-time greats, and it's Hagler fighting like a barbarian. He was also a whole lot smarter than people gave him credit for. He really understood what was going on in the ring, and was able to adapt as needed. Throw in his ability to switch from his natural southpaw to an orthodox style with ease and finesse, and those smarts made him as much a chess player as a fighter in the ring. The Hagler/Leonard fight is a great example of that. Two highly intelligent fighters doing their best to outbox one another, rather than strictly trying to beat each other up (though Hagler certainly wanted some of that, too). Almost every round one of them changed styles to try and counter the other, and neither could really get ahead. It's a perfect example of smart boxers boxing. And to top all of that off, you really couldn't hurt the guy. He was like Mongo. "Oh no, don't do that, don't do that. If you shoot him, you'll just make him mad." This is a guy that fought 67 bouts and never got knocked down, much less knocked out. The only way to beat Hagler was to try and survive fifteen rounds and hope you outscored him. Not many pulled that off.

Since he's been retired for 35 years it's hard to say he'll be missed. He really should be remembered, though. He was absolutely one of the legends.

People who haven't seen it should check out Hagler/Hearns. Hell, people who have should watch it again. It's not like it's a major commitment of time, and as has been said many times, it's the best first round of boxing anybody's ever seen.

https://youtu.be/ASe3GTXgC1o?t=284

jingle.boy

Quote from: El Barto on March 14, 2021, 10:57:25 AM
I was always a Sugar Ray Leonard guy. Leonard/Hearns fight was the best fight I've ever seen. Throw in Roberto Duran and you've got a golden era for middleweights.  Hagler was certainly the best of them. He never really got the recognition that he deserved because people avoided fighting him, which was pretty understandable. He was the total package. He was known as a brawler, and excelled in that role. The Hearns/Hagler fight is one of the all-time greats, and it's Hagler fighting like a barbarian. He was also a whole lot smarter than people gave him credit for. He really understood what was going on in the ring, and was able to adapt as needed. Throw in his ability to switch from his natural southpaw to an orthodox style with ease and finesse, and those smarts made him as much a chess player as a fighter in the ring. The Hagler/Leonard fight is a great example of that. Two highly intelligent fighters doing their best to outbox one another, rather than strictly trying to beat each other up (though Hagler certainly wanted some of that, too). Almost every round one of them changed styles to try and counter the other, and neither could really get ahead. It's a perfect example of smart boxers boxing. And to top all of that off, you really couldn't hurt the guy. He was like Mongo. "Oh no, don't do that, don't do that. If you shoot him, you'll just make him mad." This is a guy that fought 67 bouts and never got knocked down, much less knocked out. The only way to beat Hagler was to try and survive fifteen rounds and hope you outscored him. Not many pulled that off.

Since he's been retired for 35 years it's hard to say he'll be missed. He really should be remembered, though. He was absolutely one of the legends.

People who haven't seen it should check out Hagler/Hearns. Hell, people who have should watch it again. It's not like it's a major commitment of time, and as has been said many times, it's the best first round of boxing anybody's ever seen.

https://youtu.be/ASe3GTXgC1o?t=284

Wow... never knew that.  Unbelievable.
Quote from: Jamesman42 on September 20, 2024, 12:38:03 PM
Quote from: TAC on September 19, 2024, 05:23:01 PMHow is this even possible? Are we playing or what, people??
So I just checked, and, uh, you are one of the two who haven't sent.
Quote from: Puppies_On_Acid on September 20, 2024, 12:46:33 PMTim's roulette police card is hereby revoked!

Anguyen92

Well, I wasn't going to watch the money-grubbing fight that is Logan Paul vs Mayweather, but I heard that Mauro Ranallo (whose a good wrestling commentator, was a MMA commentator, and has called Showtime fights before) was doing the play by play, so I decided what the hey.  This could end up being even a bigger farce than McGregor vs Mayweather or if you go back in time in history, Antonio Inoki vs Muhammad Ali.

Stadler

I know who the players (the Paul brothers and Mayweather) are, but don't follow them.  From what I understand, the one brother is the real deal in MMA, and this is the other brother fighting Mayweather.   I don't know if it will be "farce" or not, but it's hard to not factor in the "out of the ring" variables on this one.   I can see Mayweather coasting and drawing this one out, as opposed to trying for the quick end.

Ben_Jamin

Quote from: Stadler on June 08, 2021, 07:07:07 AM
I know who the players (the Paul brothers and Mayweather) are, but don't follow them.  From what I understand, the one brother is the real deal in MMA, and this is the other brother fighting Mayweather.   I don't know if it will be "farce" or not, but it's hard to not factor in the "out of the ring" variables on this one.   I can see Mayweather coasting and drawing this one out, as opposed to trying for the quick end.


It completely was. And not to mention Showtime lost service and many people couldn't watch the fight they payed for.  :lol

I myself, just laughed hard, because I view boxing/UFC matches as a total cash grab. At least wrestling shows matches for free... :lol

I know a bit about fighting styles, it's why I liked fighting games like Tekken and modern Mortal Kombat, as these games have actual fighting styles. Tekken, has more of a diversity of styles, while Mortal Kombat focuses on the Asian Styles of fighting, like Drunken Monkey for Bo Rai Cho. It's how I fell in love with my favorite style of fighting....Capoeira.


Anguyen92

I mean I enjoyed the commentary.  When they talked about Mayweather taking on someone bigger than in, Mauro Ranallo referenced him taking on the Big Show (whose billed to weigh over 400 pounds) at Wrestlemania 24 (that event was 13 years ago!!!  Gosh, it still feels like a recent event) where Floyd was booked to win the wrestling match via knocking Big Show out with brass knuckles.  Back to the fight on Sunday, that Paul brother looked really gassed out as the fight progresses, but went the distance, which is how I guess that was the best case scenario to feed both guys' egos and to piss off the people that were moronic enough to actually purchase it.

crazy climber dude

Quote from: Stadler on June 08, 2021, 07:07:07 AM
From what I understand, the one brother is the real deal in MMA, and this is the other brother fighting Mayweather. 

That is a misunderstanding. Neither are real deals in MMA.....at least not in any organized fashion of which I am familiar.

Stadler

Quote from: crazy climber dude on June 08, 2021, 11:31:16 AM
Quote from: Stadler on June 08, 2021, 07:07:07 AM
From what I understand, the one brother is the real deal in MMA, and this is the other brother fighting Mayweather. 

That is a misunderstanding. Neither are real deals in MMA.....at least not in any organized fashion of which I am familiar.

Well, with the understanding that I don't have the first idea what I'm talking about :) , I thought the older brother had several fights under his belt and has done well in them.  If I'm wrong, then that's all on me. 

crazy climber dude

Quote from: Stadler on June 08, 2021, 11:41:02 AM
Quote from: crazy climber dude on June 08, 2021, 11:31:16 AM
Quote from: Stadler on June 08, 2021, 07:07:07 AM
From what I understand, the one brother is the real deal in MMA, and this is the other brother fighting Mayweather. 

That is a misunderstanding. Neither are real deals in MMA.....at least not in any organized fashion of which I am familiar.

Well, with the understanding that I don't have the first idea what I'm talking about :) , I thought the older brother had several fights under his belt and has done well in them.  If I'm wrong, then that's all on me.

One of the reasons I enjoy coming here....as with the old MP forum.....is the learning. Invariably, someone here will know something about something.....that you aren't altogether certain about.

Yeah, trying to figure out if there's another brother combo you may be mistaking for the Pauls? I know there's quite a few in MMA that have talented siblings in other sports....but most of them are not prominent names.

One big name in the UFC....considered by many to be the PFP GOAT in the sport....is Jon Jones. He has TWO brothers who play in the NFL. That's impressive.

And then there are several brothers (and sisters) in MMA. Of the ones that might be more recognizable...

NICK AND NATE DIAZ - Probably the most known....if for no other reason Nate submitting Conor McGregor a few years ago (a loss The Notorious one would avenge a few months later). But his older brother Nick was a pioneer of early UFC.

RODRIGO AND ROGERIO NOGUEIRA - Twins. Affectionately referred to as Big Nog and Little Nog. Both high ranked fighters at one time in the UFC.....they are fighting legends in Brazil.

ANTONINA AND VALENTINA SHEVCHENKO - Valentina is a multi-time UFC champion, and an absolute destroyer in the octagon (her nickname is Bullet, and she's from Russia, so...). Antonina is also in the UFC, though not quite on par with her older sister.

FRANK AND KEN SHAMROCK - Like Nick Diaz...both were progenitors of the UFC.

ANTHONY AND SERGIO PETTIS - from Milwaukee. Anthony (Showtime) Pettis was WEC and UFC champion....known for his flashy fighting techniques. His little brother Sergio is an accomplished fighter in his own right, ranked in the top 10 in UFC at one time....and now with Bellator MMA.

There are a few others, but not nearly as well known.

King Postwhore

I was at Ward/Gatti III. Mindblowing.

Also saw Ward vs. Emanuel Augustus in a 10 round bloodbath.   I remember  ESPN replayed this fight the friday night after 9/11. The sweat hit me 20 rows away.  They both threw over 100 punches each round. Knees buckled and no one went down.

When the last bell rang fights broke out all over the hall.  It was animal magnetism. Electric. 
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

MinistroRaven

Leonard vs Diaz just a few mins ago man!!! What a fight.

Waiting for Adesanya vs Vettori

crazy climber dude

Quote from: MinistroRaven on June 12, 2021, 08:46:47 PM
Leonard vs Diaz just a few mins ago man!!! What a fight.

Waiting for Adesanya vs Vettori

Like the way you merged Leon Edwards into Leonard.  :laugh: I think that has a lot to do with his relative anonymity.....despite being one of the best fighters in the UFC.

I didn't think it was a great fight until the last 2 minutes. Diaz hit him CLEAN, and Edwards was doing the chicken dance. Diaz seemed to hesitate after hurting him bad with that shot. Had he pressured immediately....I think he may have been able to stop him. 

But yeah.....up to that point it was a whitewash by Edwards. It was ENTERTAINING.....just because of the buzz with Diaz, his shenanigans (walking away and posturing at very odd angles), and his ridiculous ability to deal with damage.

Vettori vs Adesanya was about as expected.....though I think a lot of people thought Vettori would do to Adesanya what he did late in the first fight.....and throughout his last fight with Kevin Holland. That is to say.....take Adesanya down at will, and ground and pound. Last Stylebender showed he learned some things from the Blachowicz fight....his takedown defense MUCH improved (NASTY elbows!), and even when he was on his back.....he acquitted himself quite nicely. If he does THAT against every super strong guy like Vettori....he's going to continue to dominate the middleweight division.

How about Moreno taking the flyweight crown from Figueiredo? First Mexican born champion in the UFC....awesome! Such a great kid too! Figueiredo very classy in defeat.

Also, Paul Craig dislocating the arm of Jamahal Hill....and it flopping around like a RUBBER arm, while he's locked in an alligator roll.....all the while getting hammer fisted repeatedly in the face. That's a tough night!

crazy climber dude

Anyone excited about McGregor-Poirier 3?  :corn

Ben_Jamin

Quote from: crazy climber dude on July 09, 2021, 07:57:02 AM
Anyone excited about McGregor-Poirier 3?  :corn

Ooo...What an ending. And the one time I watch a UFC PPV event. My cuz invited me to watch and he ordered it.

I ended up laughing at Bam-Bams intro song.

ReaperKK

Quite anti-climatic end, but I think Poirier would've won in the end. He won that first round IMO.

That Mountinho fight was insane. The caught so many punches to the face and kept going. That was the fight of the night for me.

kirksnosehair

I cannot stand Connor McGregor and it was quite satisfying to watch him lose and even better that he whined like a bitch afterwards  :corn

ReaperKK

I think him losing the way he did is better for his image then flat out losing to Poirier. He'll always say he would've won had he not broken his ankle/leg.

King Postwhore

Quote from: kirksnosehair on July 11, 2021, 04:50:32 AM
I cannot stand Connor McGregor and it was quite satisfying to watch him lose and even better that he whined like a bitch afterwards  :corn

You'd whine like a bitch too if your leg did this.

"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

crazy climber dude

Quote from: ReaperKK on July 10, 2021, 09:45:03 PM
Quite anti-climatic end, but I think Poirier would've won in the end. He won that first round IMO.

That Mountinho fight was insane. The caught so many punches to the face and kept going. That was the fight of the night for me.

Poirier would have likely stopped him in the second round. He was beating the shit out of him to that point where his leg snapped like a crisp, cold, pea pod. McGregor started off aggressively, with plenty of leg kicks and his trademark pressure. But Poirier was patient. He has matured so much in the last few years. He knew Conor would gas eventually, and you were already seeing signs of that happening. The guillotine was a desperate move. And the problem with that move from the sitting position is.....if you don't finish it, you're going to get mounted and likely get some ground and pound. Which is exactly what happened.

They can run it back, and give McGregor another chance to lose if they want. But if I'm Poirier and I beat Oliviera for the title (which will be a serious undertaking)....I tell Dana White, you better pay me BIG to fight this classless clown again. 


crazy climber dude

Quote from: ReaperKK on July 10, 2021, 09:45:03 PM


That Mountinho fight was insane. The caught so many punches to the face and kept going. That was the fight of the night for me.

Yeah, and the kid was rewarded for his incredible effort (as a human punching bag).....75 G's. O'Malley's striking is INSANE. 80% strikes landed....that is utterly ridiculous (no matter how aggressive your opponent). It had to be discouraging for him not get that kid out of there earlier....he thought he had it won after the first when Mountinho staggered to his stool.

Yes, serious heart by the kid. Reminded me of Dan Hooker vs Edson Barboza. If you want to see perhaps an even worse beating....go watch that fight. Hooker did not take quite as many strikes, but the power/velocity in Barboza's kicks = a Virgil Donati drum solo. And he kept coming forward like a zombie too. Basically collapsed from too many kicks and punches to the body. It was BREW-TULL.

Stadler

Bearing in mind I did not watch the fight, but I did see the picture and heard the news (3.5 hour surgery to repair the leg) but what's the uproar?    Paul Stanley was tweeting like McGregor took a shit on the canvas and called Poirer's wife a slut.  I read a Yahoo article that talked about Poirer helping bring water to pygmy's in his down time; by that measure I'm a classless boor too.  What gives?

crazy climber dude

#28
Quote from: Stadler on July 11, 2021, 06:00:11 PM
Bearing in mind I did not watch the fight, but I did see the picture and heard the news (3.5 hour surgery to repair the leg) but what's the uproar?    Paul Stanley was tweeting like McGregor took a shit on the canvas and called Poirer's wife a slut.  I read a Yahoo article that talked about Poirer helping bring water to pygmy's in his down time; by that measure I'm a classless boor too.  What gives?

The uproar is more about McGregor's persona in general, rather than anything he said or did leading up to the fight/last night (even though there were plenty of things). He's so polarizing that if you are on the negative perception side of the fence with this guy.....anything he says or does just gets amplified.....and his critics have a field day accordingly. I recognize that is part of his "schtick" anyway, so it's not like it doesn't just feed the Conor ego/hype machine.

I think it's more than just fans of UFC and fighting that get annoyed....it's a lot of people who aren't even fight fans who might watch his antics/false bravado and think, wow....what an asshole. This also extends to the fighters themselves....esp. those who fight him and listen to his taunting and head games (he took it to a new level with the Mayweather fight, but again, yes.....he's laughing all the way to the bank). Poirier in particular....he confessed that he let Conor get in his head in their first fight years ago. McGregor knocked him out, and Poirier felt like he lost his focus because he let the emotions get the best of him.

There's also resentment from other fighters seeing what he makes per fight, when they know it's more about the show with him than the fighting (Poirier mentioned how he considers himself a "fighter" and McGregor a "show"). The "trickle down" from his success has not made it to their pocketbooks on that level (even the ones who are clearly better than him), although it could be argued the overall growth of the sport....whether because of or in spite of McGregor and his personality....helps them, if for no other reason it keeps the UFC solvent/relevant (the transition from Fox to ESPN one example). I think their objection is, to them, it IS about the integrity of the fighting....not about the hype. They don't want MMA to go the way boxing did years ago with Don King, over the top hype, and sketchy outcomes.

The irony is, McGregor has serious credentials. He's still one of the top 5 fighters in his very crowded weight division....despite the losses he's racked up lately. But when you consider those losses are to Poirier (twice)...who is #1 ranked contender and fighting for a title his next fight.... and Khabib Nurmagomedov, who has said he is retired---but is/was considered by many to be the best pound for pound fighter in the UFC....those are "qualified" losses. In between, he destroyed Donald Cerrone (albeit in the twilight of his career), and seemed to have "rededicated" himself to MMA and fighting in the UFC/regaining his lost titles. Conor still has very good hands (there's a reason why he survived an entire fight against Mayweather, despite the boxing lesson overall) and kicks. What he doesn't have is great cardio like Khabib and Poirier. Those guys are elite level in that area....that's why they win. McGregor can't sustain his high level of striking, so if he doesn't get you early (like he does with most opponents), he gasses out and the better conditioned fighter can assert themselves in those later rounds (like Nate Diaz did a few years ago). I will give him credit....he will fight. He doesn't duck dudes....and according to him he still wants another crack at Poirier. But one has to wonder what he might possibly bring to the table that he DIDN'T in the last two fights.....not to mention how much this injury could affect his game moving forward. He's not a spring chicken anymore. And the worst part...yes, he lost to the best fighters, but he not only lost....he got his ass kicked badly each time. That's usually a cue for winding down a career. 

So yeah, he's over the top. He's brash and loud and obnoxious. He brags and talks shit about his opponents. There are other fighters who have or do this now of course, but he's got that perceived swag about him.....the strut he does in the octagon before the fight is the stuff of campy legend. Joe Rogan mentioned that he preferred the "angry" Conor, but was also quick to point out the disingenuous nature of it all. It's one thing if you can back it up (Ali for example)....but when you start losing, and you still talk trash....pretty soon the swag equity runs out. He's there now to some extent....but likely refuses to acknowledge it as long as he continues to move the sports world's imagination needle. I think he's a colorful character, still. But his best fighting days are well behind him....and the other fighters have caught up and/or surpassed him. He DID finish Poirier early in their first fight, as he did with most of his other opponents (former champ Jose Aldo in 13 seconds!)....for awhile he was fighting as impressively as Rhonda Rousey was for a few years. Dominant. Seemingly unbeatable. But like Rousey with the SHOCKING KO loss to Holly Holmes, the writing is on the wall. She read it....and moved on to take advantage of her celeb (professional wrestling, movies). But you have to wonder if Proper#12 is enough to satisfy this man's insatiable ego. If not, then he either has to accept a lesser status in the ACTUAL fighting game and fight guys he can beat.....or he has to do more than just rededicate, he has to reinvent himself (ie work on a better ground game/improve his cardio to their level). The question is.....with a cool $160 million earned this year alone.....does he still have THAT kind of drive to compete at the championship level? There's something to be said for "hunger", so if I were a betting man.....I would say no way he ever becomes champion again.

Stadler

THat's interesting; thanks for taking the time to lay that out.   I don't know, but I seem to be with you; the incentive decreases as you get older and the defeats mount up.

But your explanation also points out that there is a LOT of hyperbole around this guy.  I'm a big fan of Paul Stanley, and generally appreciate his insight, but he was pretty vociferous in condemning this guy, as if he actually did something that caused material harm to someone else.  Talking smack or posing before/during/after a fight (especially one where you got your leg destroyed and could not continue) is not that. 

ReaperKK

I agree with the thought that he will never be champ. When he did the Mayweather fight that was the turning point IMO. He got a fat payday and his celebrity skyrocketed, while his hunger to be competitive diminished. Also as time goes by it's becoming more and more apparent he is simply an asshole (taking punching an old guy in a bar for example).

Dana loves him though. If you watch the post-fight conference Dana says that Poirier gets a chance at the belt (as he should) but then he'll go at Conor again. That's bullshit IMO, Conor needs to earn that back and while it's unfortunate about his leg this was his shot.

crazy climber dude

Stadler, you're welcome. Oh yeah, TONS of hyperbole (a good portion of which is self created, though to be fair.....he had his original Irish fans from the get go). You don't cross over into another mainstream sport and compete at its absolute highest level (even if they are so closely related) unless there is enough hype to justify the move.  It's unfortunate that kind of thing is such a circus (the Mayweather "fight"). They had multiple press conferences and big, outdoor rallies leading up to it....that were primarily designed to give McGregor a chance to "showcase" his profanity laced tirades. It was one of the most hyped up exhibitions is sports history.   

And so yes....I agree with ReaperKK about that fight being pivotal in his relative downfall in the UFC. Not that he wasn't training and working on his craft, but it wasn't on par with the other guys in his weight class. Which is interesting....because he came up as a featherweight, and completely dominated at that weight. It wasn't until he moved up to lightweight, that the problems started (despite being a belt holder at that weight simultaneously). He was going against bigger guys, but also better too. The lightweight division is STACKED. Most of the fighters in the top 10 of that weight class would likely beat his ass these days.

I agree with him, too....that Conor needs to earn that back. But yes, Dana still loves him and will likely allow the shortcuts. What I found interesting, though....is that Poirier in his classy post presser said that he still wanted to fight McGregor again. Didn't like the way it ended in this fight....and he's still pissed about the comments he made before the fight.


kirksnosehair

#32
Quote from: kingshmegland on July 11, 2021, 09:18:43 AM
Quote from: kirksnosehair on July 11, 2021, 04:50:32 AM
I cannot stand Connor McGregor and it was quite satisfying to watch him lose and even better that he whined like a bitch afterwards  :corn

You'd whine like a bitch too if your leg did this.




Nah, dude, I'd be too busy hyperventilating and probably having a heart attack from the pain. :lol

Stadler

That's starting to be a common injury, it seems...


So did the fight end because of that leg injury?  (Sorry if that's a dumb question).

King Postwhore

I'd be screaming like Ned Flanders.  :lol
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.