Author Topic: D/T Tour Second Leg  (Read 16774 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline bosk1

  • King of Misdirection
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12791
  • Bow down to Boskaryus
Re: D/T Tour Second Leg
« Reply #35 on: July 18, 2019, 03:33:48 PM »
But what if they were going to play a full album of Toto covers?
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline pg1067

  • Posts: 12440
  • Gender: Male
Re: D/T Tour Second Leg
« Reply #36 on: July 18, 2019, 03:39:12 PM »
And I was jealous that USA got Don't look past me

Don't be.  It was the lowlight of the show.  There's a reason why it got dropped after 13 shows.

Agree to Disagree.  Don't Look Past Me's  inclusion in the I&W celebration was a stunning and welcome surprise, and a gift to fan's like me.

What is it that you disagree with?  I guess you can disagree that it was the lowlight of the show, but I think you'd be in the minority.  There's certainly no disagreeing with the fact that the song got removed from the set list after 13 shows because it wasn't being well-received.



And I was jealous that USA got Don't look past me
Don't be.  It was the lowlight of the show.  There's a reason why it got dropped after 13 shows.
It's true. I was at one of the shows where they were still playing it, and it was the worst received song of the night. The band was spot on in their assessment that the song wasn't going over well.
That's only because the vast majority of the fans weren't familiar with the song. Had they been familiar with the song, it would've been received far better. And how are B-sides and non-album tracks supposed to be made known to the fans? Besides including them on compilations, playing them out live. It's how Another Won and Raise the Knife became well known songs. So I completely disagree with the assessment that DLPM was rightfully dropped from the set.

Eh...I think that's a cop-out.  If the song was good and performed well (it's not, and it wasn't -- at least not at the show I attended), it would be well-received regardless of fan familiarity.  To answer your question, fans that care about b-sides and non-album tracks seek them out.  If you're referring to the inclusion of AW and RTK on Score, I disagree that that did much of anything to increase their familiarity to folks.  Those who care already knew about them.


generally non-album tracks are non-album tracks for a reason and aren't super well known across fan bases for that same reason.

 :tup :tup :tup
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Offline KevShmev

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 41963
  • Gender: Male
Re: D/T Tour Second Leg
« Reply #37 on: July 18, 2019, 03:46:39 PM »
Plus, Another Won and Raise the Knife were played at a show that everyone knew was getting recorded for a live release, while that was not the case for Don't Look Past Me.  That is the advantage to DT post-Portnoy: when they pull out something special, it is getting played either the whole tour (Space Dye Vest) or for at least a good part of the tour (Don't Look Past Me).  As cool as it was when the band pulled out a rarity back in the day, unless you just happened to catch one of the few shows where it got played (Disappear, Another Won, etc.), you were gonna miss it.  You could have gone to 80% of shows on a tour and still missed the rarity; that is not the case nowadays.

Offline Setlist Scotty

  • Posts: 4474
Re: D/T Tour Second Leg
« Reply #38 on: July 18, 2019, 05:03:51 PM »
That's only because the vast majority of the fans weren't familiar with the song. Had they been familiar with the song, it would've been received far better. And how are B-sides and non-album tracks supposed to be made known to the fans? Besides including them on compilations, playing them out live. It's how Another Won and Raise the Knife became well known songs. So I completely disagree with the assessment that DLPM was rightfully dropped from the set.
Eh...I think that's a cop-out.  If the song was good and performed well (it's not, and it wasn't -- at least not at the show I attended), it would be well-received regardless of fan familiarity.  To answer your question, fans that care about b-sides and non-album tracks seek them out.  If you're referring to the inclusion of AW and RTK on Score, I disagree that that did much of anything to increase their familiarity to folks.  Those who care already knew about them.
It's not a cop out at all. It's the truth. I can recall reading posts from people in the past commenting about these "new" songs that they had no clue about because they became fans long after Cleaning Out the Closet was released and/or weren't a part of the DT online communities in the 90s and early 2000s. How many other DT fans are there that aren't a part of the online communities even now that had no clue about those songs but do now because they were released on Score?

The point is, just because the majority of the audience may not be familiar with it (and therefore  stand there dumbfounded instead of rocking out) is no reason to drop it any more than some of the more obscure album tracks that DT rarely plays. A full set of such songs would go over like a fart in church - I get that - but to include one or two per show is not too much to ask.
 
 
As cool as it was when the band pulled out a rarity back in the day, unless you just happened to catch one of the few shows where it got played (Disappear, Another Won, etc.), you were gonna miss it.  You could have gone to 80% of shows on a tour and still missed the rarity; that is not the case nowadays.
(You *knew* this was coming) Shouldn't include AW in that list - it was played at almost every one of the Evening With shows in 2005 and 2006.  :P  ;)  :-*
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline pg1067

  • Posts: 12440
  • Gender: Male
Re: D/T Tour Second Leg
« Reply #39 on: July 18, 2019, 05:15:56 PM »
That's only because the vast majority of the fans weren't familiar with the song. Had they been familiar with the song, it would've been received far better. And how are B-sides and non-album tracks supposed to be made known to the fans? Besides including them on compilations, playing them out live. It's how Another Won and Raise the Knife became well known songs. So I completely disagree with the assessment that DLPM was rightfully dropped from the set.
Eh...I think that's a cop-out.  If the song was good and performed well (it's not, and it wasn't -- at least not at the show I attended), it would be well-received regardless of fan familiarity.  To answer your question, fans that care about b-sides and non-album tracks seek them out.  If you're referring to the inclusion of AW and RTK on Score, I disagree that that did much of anything to increase their familiarity to folks.  Those who care already knew about them.
It's not a cop out at all. It's the truth. I can recall reading posts from people in the past commenting about these "new" songs that they had no clue about because they became fans long after Cleaning Out the Closet was released and/or weren't a part of the DT online communities in the 90s and early 2000s. How many other DT fans are there that aren't a part of the online communities even now that had no clue about those songs but do now because they were released on Score?

The point is, just because the majority of the audience may not be familiar with it (and therefore  stand there dumbfounded instead of rocking out) is no reason to drop it any more than some of the more obscure album tracks that DT rarely plays. A full set of such songs would go over like a fart in church - I get that - but to include one or two per show is not too much to ask.

I've made it clear that I don't think any of the songs that got rejected for/not included on FII (as well as DLPM and TFE) are better than any song that was included (with the possible exception that RTK might be better than New Millennium, which isn't saying much).  And we can all disagree about that.  However, where I think we might agree is that, if the band wants to bust another of these songs out at some point, it would be helpful if James introduced it so that those in the crowd not familiar with these songs can understand what's being played.
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Offline TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 74107
  • Gender: Male
  • Arthritic Metal Horns
Re: D/T Tour Second Leg
« Reply #40 on: July 18, 2019, 05:22:38 PM »
It's really cool that they tried it for a few shows.  It shows a continued willingness to try to give the fans some rare gems.  And if the band decided it wasn't working, I can respect that, even if we might disagree as fans.  You never really know for sure how something like that is working.  I know JP hated playing Scarred for the longest time because he felt like it was a flop live, but a lot of fans really dig it, so...  :dunno:


Is it possible that a lot of fans are not actually familiar with it? I mean, to us here at DTF, that's crazy talk, but...
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline pg1067

  • Posts: 12440
  • Gender: Male
Re: D/T Tour Second Leg
« Reply #41 on: July 18, 2019, 05:32:19 PM »
It's really cool that they tried it for a few shows.  It shows a continued willingness to try to give the fans some rare gems.  And if the band decided it wasn't working, I can respect that, even if we might disagree as fans.  You never really know for sure how something like that is working.  I know JP hated playing Scarred for the longest time because he felt like it was a flop live, but a lot of fans really dig it, so...  :dunno:


Is it possible that a lot of fans are not actually familiar with it? I mean, to us here at DTF, that's crazy talk, but...

Yes.  I don't have any evidence to back it up, but I would guess that the folks who post here aren't really representative of the fan base as a whole.  One of the guys I went to the last show with probably couldn't name all of DT's albums much less songs that were rejected for an album released 20+ years ago.  He's more of a JP fan than a DT fan, but he still goes to the shows just about every time they're in town.
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Offline Lonk

  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6015
Re: D/T Tour Second Leg
« Reply #42 on: July 18, 2019, 05:52:21 PM »
I've made it clear that I don't think any of the songs that got rejected for/not included on FII (as well as DLPM and TFE) are better than any song that was included (with the possible exception that RTK might be better than New Millennium, which isn't saying much).  And we can all disagree about that.  However, where I think we might agree is that, if the band wants to bust another of these songs out at some point, it would be helpful if James introduced it so that those in the crowd not familiar with these songs can understand what's being played.

I think that addresses a whole’ nother issue which is James engaging the crowd. Which he does at times.
Vmadera has evolved into Lonk

Offline The Walrus

  • goo goo g'joob
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 17221
  • PSA: Stairway to Heaven is in 4/4
Re: D/T Tour Second Leg
« Reply #43 on: July 18, 2019, 07:27:49 PM »
But what if they were going to play a full album of Toto covers?

They wouldn't do them justice.  :)
From a Mega Man Legends island jamming power metal to a Walrus listening to black metal, I like your story arc.
"I don't worry about nothing, no, 'cause worrying's a waste of my time"

Offline TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 74107
  • Gender: Male
  • Arthritic Metal Horns
Re: D/T Tour Second Leg
« Reply #44 on: July 18, 2019, 07:39:35 PM »
But what if they were going to play a full album of Toto covers?

They wouldn't do them justice.  :)




"We'd like to thank Kattelox for coming out to the show. ARE YOU WITH US?"
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline The Walrus

  • goo goo g'joob
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 17221
  • PSA: Stairway to Heaven is in 4/4
Re: D/T Tour Second Leg
« Reply #45 on: July 18, 2019, 08:32:57 PM »
Hell yeah I'm with you!! :2metal:  :lol
From a Mega Man Legends island jamming power metal to a Walrus listening to black metal, I like your story arc.
"I don't worry about nothing, no, 'cause worrying's a waste of my time"

Offline KevShmev

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 41963
  • Gender: Male
Re: D/T Tour Second Leg
« Reply #46 on: July 18, 2019, 08:37:46 PM »


As cool as it was when the band pulled out a rarity back in the day, unless you just happened to catch one of the few shows where it got played (Disappear, Another Won, etc.), you were gonna miss it.  You could have gone to 80% of shows on a tour and still missed the rarity; that is not the case nowadays.
(You *knew* this was coming) Shouldn't include AW in that list - it was played at almost every one of the Evening With shows in 2005 and 2006.  :P  ;)  :-*

Okay, but my point still stands, Mr. Fact Checker. :P

Offline Setlist Scotty

  • Posts: 4474
Re: D/T Tour Second Leg
« Reply #47 on: July 18, 2019, 08:48:13 PM »


As cool as it was when the band pulled out a rarity back in the day, unless you just happened to catch one of the few shows where it got played (Disappear, Another Won, etc.), you were gonna miss it.  You could have gone to 80% of shows on a tour and still missed the rarity; that is not the case nowadays.
(You *knew* this was coming) Shouldn't include AW in that list - it was played at almost every one of the Evening With shows in 2005 and 2006.  :P  ;)  :-*
Okay, but my point still stands, Mr. Fact Checker. :P
This time yes, but not always, Mr. Fact Slacker. ;D
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline KevShmev

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 41963
  • Gender: Male
Re: D/T Tour Second Leg
« Reply #48 on: July 18, 2019, 08:49:15 PM »

This time yes, but not always, Mr. Fact Slacker. ;D

 :tup :tup

Offline goo-goo

  • Posts: 3162
Re: D/T Tour Second Leg
« Reply #49 on: July 18, 2019, 09:40:24 PM »
I read “fart checker” (not wearing my eyeglasses).

Offline Ben_Jamin

  • Posts: 15690
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm just a man, thrown into existence by the gods
Re: D/T Tour Second Leg
« Reply #50 on: July 20, 2019, 09:00:29 AM »
DT Facebook: "Big news coming next week, stay tuned!"

Alright, I'll see what date I'll hit up. If they have Denver, I'll likely head there again.
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man
Follow my Spotify:BjamminD

Offline gzarruk

  • Posts: 5144
  • Gender: Male
Re: D/T Tour Second Leg
« Reply #51 on: July 20, 2019, 10:02:25 AM »
DT Facebook: "Big news coming next week, stay tuned!"

Hope it’s something else and not just “more tour dates added” :P
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline jammindude

  • Posts: 15237
  • Gender: Male
Re: D/T Tour Second Leg
« Reply #52 on: July 20, 2019, 11:14:43 AM »
DT Facebook: "Big news coming next week, stay tuned!"

Hope it’s something else and not just “more tour dates added” :P


 I’m hoping it is more tour dates. They skipped Seattle  on the first leg!
"Better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world.
Than the pride that divides when a colorful rag is unfurled." - Neil Peart

The Jammin Dude Show - https://www.youtube.com/user/jammindude

Offline Architeuthis

  • Posts: 3770
  • Gender: Male
Re: D/T Tour Second Leg
« Reply #53 on: July 20, 2019, 12:30:05 PM »
DT Facebook: "Big news coming next week, stay tuned!"

Hope it’s something else and not just “more tour dates added” :P


 I’m hoping it is more tour dates. They skipped Seattle  on the first leg!
This!  They haven't been to Seattle since TA tour.  The Showbox (@ the market) would be nice.
You can do a lot in a lifetime if you don't burn out too fast, you can make the most of the distance, first you need endurance first you've got to last....... NP

Offline KevShmev

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 41963
  • Gender: Male
Re: D/T Tour Second Leg
« Reply #54 on: July 20, 2019, 01:14:57 PM »
Get your credit cards ready, because it seems like many bands nowadays like to give little warning about tickets going on sale, so this could be another one of those "here are the new tour dates, tickets go on sale tomorrow" deals.

Offline TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 74107
  • Gender: Male
  • Arthritic Metal Horns
Re: D/T Tour Second Leg
« Reply #55 on: July 20, 2019, 02:55:07 PM »
Get your credit cards ready, because it seems like many bands nowadays like to give little warning about tickets going on sale, so this could be another one of those "here are the new tour dates, tickets go on sale tomorrow an hour ago" deals.

would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Cool Chris

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 13559
  • Gender: Male
Re: D/T Tour Second Leg
« Reply #56 on: July 20, 2019, 04:14:39 PM »
This!  They haven't been to Seattle since TA tour.  The Showbox (@ the market) would be nice.

Showbox Market? Really? I haven't been there in 15 years. Looks like the dummies on the city council finally made a determination on it? Tear it down I say. There's nothing historically significant about it.
"Nostalgia is just the ability to forget the things that sucked" - Nelson DeMille, 'Up Country'

Offline cramx3

  • Chillest of the chill
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 34212
  • Gender: Male
Re: D/T Tour Second Leg
« Reply #57 on: July 20, 2019, 05:10:22 PM »
Get your credit cards ready, because it seems like many bands nowadays like to give little warning about tickets going on sale, so this could be another one of those "here are the new tour dates, tickets go on sale tomorrow" deals.

Not before a credit card or blabbermouth presale though  :lol

Offline Architeuthis

  • Posts: 3770
  • Gender: Male
Re: D/T Tour Second Leg
« Reply #58 on: July 20, 2019, 05:12:47 PM »
This!  They haven't been to Seattle since TA tour.  The Showbox (@ the market) would be nice.

Showbox Market? Really? I haven't been there in 15 years. Looks like the dummies on the city council finally made a determination on it? Tear it down I say. There's nothing historically significant about it.
I'm glad to know it has been declared as a historic landmark and they are not tearing down. It's one of my favorite venues and is great for metal shows!  :metal
Where do you think would be the best venue for DT to play?   
You can do a lot in a lifetime if you don't burn out too fast, you can make the most of the distance, first you need endurance first you've got to last....... NP

Offline Cool Chris

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 13559
  • Gender: Male
Re: D/T Tour Second Leg
« Reply #59 on: July 20, 2019, 05:42:02 PM »
I've seen DT at The Moore, and wherever they toured ADToE and TA (can't recall... Paramount?). I've only seen cover bands at Showbox and that was decades ago. Seen some great shows at Showbox by stadiums. I just have no emotional or nostalgic attachment to Showbox at Market. Thought that was too small for a band like DT anyway(?)
"Nostalgia is just the ability to forget the things that sucked" - Nelson DeMille, 'Up Country'

Offline jammindude

  • Posts: 15237
  • Gender: Male
Re: D/T Tour Second Leg
« Reply #60 on: July 20, 2019, 06:06:58 PM »
I've seen DT at The Moore, and wherever they toured ADToE and TA (can't recall... Paramount?). I've only seen cover bands at Showbox and that was decades ago. Seen some great shows at Showbox by stadiums. I just have no emotional or nostalgic attachment to Showbox at Market. Thought that was too small for a band like DT anyway(?)

I saw Porcupine Tree, Symphony X, and The Tea Party at Showbox Market (as well as several others) that’s an AMAZING venue. I would LOVE to see DT there.
"Better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world.
Than the pride that divides when a colorful rag is unfurled." - Neil Peart

The Jammin Dude Show - https://www.youtube.com/user/jammindude

Offline Cool Chris

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 13559
  • Gender: Male
Re: D/T Tour Second Leg
« Reply #61 on: July 20, 2019, 07:01:33 PM »
I saw Porcupine Tree there too now that you mention it.  I don't mean to be down on it. It is in a horrible location though. And just not sure it is worth the important historical designation.
"Nostalgia is just the ability to forget the things that sucked" - Nelson DeMille, 'Up Country'

Offline Architeuthis

  • Posts: 3770
  • Gender: Male
Re: D/T Tour Second Leg
« Reply #62 on: July 20, 2019, 09:24:19 PM »
I saw Porcupine Tree there too now that you mention it.  I don't mean to be down on it. It is in a horrible location though. And just not sure it is worth the important historical designation.
It's a good location for me since I take the ferry from Bainbridge island to get there. It's an easy walk to get there from the terminal.  Even easier to walk back as it's downhill.  I live out in Sequim in the Olympic peninsula so the drive to the ferry is about an hour and a half.   I always love to stop at Ivars on the waterfront and get their fish and chips before the show. Great stuff!
  I don't think the showbox is too small for DT.   I saw Symphony X and Overkill together there, and Sons of Apollo last year which was AWESOME!!!
Btw, yeah DT played the Paramount for TA tour. The balcony seats were only half full, but it was on a weeknight and an unusual tour featuring the new album only.
You can do a lot in a lifetime if you don't burn out too fast, you can make the most of the distance, first you need endurance first you've got to last....... NP

Offline LightCurves

  • Posts: 26
Re: D/T Tour Second Leg
« Reply #63 on: July 21, 2019, 07:15:57 AM »
Hopefully a proper european evening with tour is up next

Offline Kyo

  • Myung at Heart
  • Posts: 551
Re: D/T Tour Second Leg
« Reply #64 on: July 22, 2019, 04:07:53 AM »
I know JP hated playing Scarred for the longest time because he felt like it was a flop live, but a lot of fans really dig it, so...  :dunno:
Oh, I'd say JP had it right. Saw Scarred live a couple of times and it was a real mood killer. The room was basically dead for the duration of the song.
"Freedom in the 21st Century means being incommunicado."

Offline SwedishGoose

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 2482
Re: D/T Tour Second Leg
« Reply #65 on: July 22, 2019, 06:11:10 AM »
Hopefully a proper european evening with tour is up next

Yes..... it's about time for that indeed

Offline SwedishGoose

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 2482
Re: D/T Tour Second Leg
« Reply #66 on: July 22, 2019, 06:21:24 AM »
It's really cool that they tried it for a few shows.  It shows a continued willingness to try to give the fans some rare gems.  And if the band decided it wasn't working, I can respect that, even if we might disagree as fans.  You never really know for sure how something like that is working.  I know JP hated playing Scarred for the longest time because he felt like it was a flop live, but a lot of fans really dig it, so...  :dunno:


Is it possible that a lot of fans are not actually familiar with it? I mean, to us here at DTF, that's crazy talk, but...

I'm not sure ir's crazy talk. I consider myself quite a big DT fan. I have been here for a while, I used to hang out on MPs forum.

Started listening to them after hearing Pull Me Under played on Headbanger's Ball on MTV back in the day. Saw the Images & Words tour. Missed the next two for various reasons but have seen all since 2000, except SC when I was in a hospital and could not use my ticket.
I have all official albums and some singles. I also have quite a few official bootlegs.
Yet I do not have Don't Look Passed me..... but then.... maybe I am not a real fan  ;)

Offline Ben_Jamin

  • Posts: 15690
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm just a man, thrown into existence by the gods
Re: D/T Tour Second Leg
« Reply #67 on: July 22, 2019, 08:22:47 AM »
It's really cool that they tried it for a few shows.  It shows a continued willingness to try to give the fans some rare gems.  And if the band decided it wasn't working, I can respect that, even if we might disagree as fans.  You never really know for sure how something like that is working.  I know JP hated playing Scarred for the longest time because he felt like it was a flop live, but a lot of fans really dig it, so...  :dunno:


Is it possible that a lot of fans are not actually familiar with it? I mean, to us here at DTF, that's crazy talk, but...

I'm not sure ir's crazy talk. I consider myself quite a big DT fan. I have been here for a while, I used to hang out on MPs forum.

Started listening to them after hearing Pull Me Under played on Headbanger's Ball on MTV back in the day. Saw the Images & Words tour. Missed the next two for various reasons but have seen all since 2000, except SC when I was in a hospital and could not use my ticket.
I have all official albums and some singles. I also have quite a few official bootlegs.
Yet I do not have Don't Look Passed me..... but then.... maybe I am not a real fan  ;)

The only way I know Don't Look Past Me is because I bought the first edition of the DT biography. It came with a companion cd with some rare tracks, like the Titanic version of Through Her Eyes (the ending credits of Live Scenes).
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man
Follow my Spotify:BjamminD

Offline CharlesPL

  • Posts: 4186
  • Gender: Male