NBA 2020-2021 - v. 2021 Finals: Milwaukee and Giannis rule the basketball world

[King Postwhore]

One hell of a block to win this game for the Heat.

[T-ski]

Never go up 14 in the 4th against the Heat, they always win.

[T-ski]

Jokic and Murray are playing out of their minds

[jingle.boy]

That block was absolutely sick.  I'm not sure which is more impressive, that one, or LBJ's in the finals a few years back. Naturally, the latter was more impactful (ie, they won the Larry OB as a result), but just watching it last night.... 

And yeah... helluva choke job by Doc and the Clips.  3-straight games with double-digit leads, and big leads in the 2nd half, only to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

[Samsara]

As a Timberwolves fan, I hate the Nuggets. Deeply. But greatness is greatness. Joker & Murray are just unbelievable. I'm not sure if they can sustain this in another series, but wow.

[dparrott]

Heat still on fire!!!

[TAC]

Jason Tatum might be the most overrated player in the league. He's just not there yet. He has been putrid at the end of these games. He lacks the ability to see the court at crunch time. Smart open in the post on that final shot from the North End of Boston at the end of regulation. And Bam's block was amazing of course, but Tatum, WTF? Are you the only guy on the court that didn't see him?

[King Postwhore]

Tim, that's a weak take.  That move by Tatum is a strong,  aggressive move that you want a scorer to take.  The Heat defender made an incredible defensive play.

Now it you want to rant on Tatum's 3 point shot at the end of regulation, then you've got a point.

[TAC]

That's not a weak take. He was awful late in games against Toronto too. Getting stripped late.

And it's only a strong move if he makes it. Apparently it wasn't as strong as Bam's move...

[jingle.boy]

I’m with King in this. Tatum makes that dunk 99 times out of 100. The block was beyond exceptional, with a good amount of luck too.

Tatum has been the best or 2nd best player on the team. Walker is who deserves to be ragged on more. He was pretty bad in more than one game in the series with the Raps.

[Samsara]

Nah, I'm with Tim on this one. Part of becoming a great player is to know the abilities of your opponent. Tatum made the wrong play. He knew Bam was going to challenge him. Tatum probably just felt he could stuff it through.

There's a fine line between confidence in your abilities and ego. All the great ones figure that out, but it takes a few years. Jordan comes to mind immediately. I'm not putting Tatum on Mt. Rushmore with Jordan, I'm just saying even Jordan went through that stage.

Tatum is one of the most talented players in the league. And at some point in the next three or four years, will be a serious MVP candidate. But he made the wrong move trying to stuff it through with an elite shot blocking menace right near him.

I do agree with Jingle that Walker needs to be better though. He sort of fell apart.

[jingle.boy]

All great points Brian, but here's how I see it.  Tatum was already in motion, and committed to going at the basket.  He was in the air before Bam was.  Also, to suggest he had an outlet in Smart in the corner is a stretch - especially (see gif below) because trying to pass to Smart is likely a turnover - he's covered ffs. Tatum isn't an elite passer, so that risk was way higher in trying to make a pass vs going at the rim as hard as he did.  And Bam came in from outside the key, so it was an exceptional play on his part.  Who knows if the Boston play was drawn up as Tatum going to the rim as option A, and outlet as option B, or the other way around.  Maybe the onus falls on Stevens as to how the play was to be executed.




Either way, it was an exceptional block, and Tatum makes that basket more times than he's stopped.

Tatum's line is hardly indicative of "over-ratedness" - 30/14/5; 41% shooting (33% 3P; 100% FT).  Even if that final play was legit a bad one on his part, I don't see how that leads to the conclusion he's over-rated.

[King Postwhore]

I want my go to guy to have that attitude that he can score anywhere, at will.  I will take him getting blocked at the rim over a 28 foot bomb that misses when you have time to make a move. That block was Superman like.  One handed block with Tatum's momentum is out of this world.

Walker is what's been hurting the C's.  He's lost his fastball.  Miami are ok with him shooting outside right now.

[TAC]

All I know is that he was 0-3 in his chances at the end of Reg, the Bam block, and the final shot of OT.

He’s obviously not ready for this moment. That’s OK. Let’s just not put the cart before the horse on him. That’s all I’m saying.

[King Postwhore]

I think the majority of TV annalists are calling him on the cusp of superstardom.  He's close. He's only 22. 

[jingle.boy]

All I know is that he was 0-3 in his chances at the end of Reg, the Bam block, and the final shot of OT.

He’s obviously not ready for this moment. That’s OK. Let’s just not put the cart before the horse on him. That’s all I’m saying.

He misses 1 FT, they don't go to OT
He shoots 40% from the field, they don't go to OT

Bottom line, he shouldn't be remembered for what he didn't do, ffs... he's the primary reason they had the lead (that they blew).  Dude is only what, 22?  Is he a definitive "Elite" (ie, Top 5) baller... maybe not yet.  Maybe not Top 10.  But a case could be definitely made that there are only 10 players 'better' than him in the league.   Just remember, Leonard got bounced 2 days ago.  Tatum was the primary reason they beat the Raps.

[T-ski]

I had Tatum on my fantasy team and traded him, that’s how much I dislike Tatum.

[King Postwhore]

I had Tatum on my fantasy team and traded him, that’s how much I dislike Tatum.

Because of his play or because you are a Bucks fan?

[Samsara]

Jingle,

Love the video shots. Good move. Can't deny that Tatum made up his mind to go to the hoop before Bam was in the air. But he knew Bam was going to try and get up and block his shot if he went to the cup. He knows he's there, and that's Bam's job. So when Tatum made the call to get to the tin, he knew Bam would be in the vicinity. Excellent play by Bam, but Tatum, if you look closely, sees him coming right at him and tries to shove it down hard -- typically what I would support as a coach. But in that moment, in that split second (we are splitting hairs here for sure), had he just went with a lighter move and got the ball higher off the glass, he would have scored, or it could have been goaltending. To me, that's the difference between a young baller with ego, and a young baller who has matured enough and can instinctively feel out plays.

For the record though -- *I* do not call Tatum overrated. I like Tatum - A LOT. I think he is Carmelo Anthony 2.0 who can actually be a plus-defender because of his length and quickness. But right now, he's still a young player who has a bunch of playoff experience. I thought he may blossom in these playoff games. But as Tim explained, he's coming up short. So did Jordan (not comparing the two as players, just in maturity) when he was a young player in his first few seasons. Tatum's time will come. He has it. You can see it. It's just not yet. And that's okay. I think Ainge knows and sees it too. He has to keep Brown and Tatum together. Those two...man. They are going to be tough to handle.

As for Kemba, that's a tough one. He's got to be better. And he knows it. He let them down.

[T-ski]

I had Tatum on my fantasy team and traded him, that’s how much I dislike Tatum.

Because of his play or because you are a Bucks fan?

Mostly because of his play. I was sick of all the 8-22’s he was putting up (missed shots are -1 points in our league).

Let the record state I lost the trade as all I got back was Danilo Gallinari, who was averaging more fantasy points at the time, but started missing games with injuries/rest.

[King Postwhore]

I'm glad I don't play games.  I couldn't watch games without obsessing over that.

[TAC]

I think the majority of TV annalists are calling him on the cusp of superstardom.  He's close. He's only 22.

They say close. I say not there yet.

Besides, isn’t an annalist an ass doctor anyway?

And in typing that sentence I had to twice override my autocorrect for that word. Is your phone so confused that it just accepted it?

[TAC]

@J-Boy
Tatum was the reason the Celts won the series against the Raptors? I thought Siakim was the reason. 

[King Postwhore]

I think the majority of TV annalists are calling him on the cusp of superstardom.  He's close. He's only 22.

They say close. I say not there yet.

Besides, isn’t an annalist an ass doctor anyway?

And in typing that sentence I had to twice override my autocorrect for that word. Is your phone so confused that it just accepted it?

I can even confuse AI.

[King Postwhore]

@J-Boy
Tatum was the reason the Celts won the series against the Raptors? I thought Siakim was the reason. 

With this thought process it's Walker's fault for the C's loss.

[jingle.boy]

@J-Boy
Tatum was the reason the Celts won the series against the Raptors? I thought Siakim was the reason. 

Boy, I'm trying to be nice to your team, and you go and pull a Kev!  tsk tsk.

But yes, you are more right than I was.

@ Brian... great point - "had he just went with a lighter move and got the ball higher off the glass, he would have scored, or it could have been goaltending. To me, that's the difference between a young baller with ego, and a young baller who has matured enough and can instinctively feel out plays."  It would still need to be a God-tier touch to go off the glass at the speed and angle that Tatum was coming in with.  Coulda-shoulda-woulda.  Maybe it was an ego move, I still think it was the  highest percentage chance to get the bucket once the decision was made to put Tatum 1:1 with Butler.

[T-ski]

I'm glad I don't play games.  I couldn't watch games without obsessing over that.

It was my first fantasy league of any kind in more than 10 years. I quit playing for this exact reason, I was paying so much to individual stats I wasn’t enjoying the games anymore.

[TAC]

Chad, has anything come out on Siakim? A Boston media member last week mentioned that he may have had something going on in his personal life. It seemed like informed speculation.

[King Postwhore]

Another putrid 3rd quarter for the Celtics. 

[King Postwhore]

C's seem so confused with the zone defense.  Kudos to the Heat who have used it twice to turn the tide.

[TAC]

The Celtics are just getting flat outplayed. It's as simple as that.

[Samsara]

THE ONE TIME I need the Celtics to play well and beat someone, and I get this. 

Thanks Boston. 

The Celtics don't look good. I shut it off pretty quickly last night (I can't stomach Jimmy Butler), but seems I didn't miss much. The Mrs. told me there was some blowup inside and outside the C's locker room with Marcus Smart storming off or something. It doesn't look good for the Cs. Gonna make me have to root for the crap ass Shit nuggets or the Lakers.  *puke*

[jingle.boy]

Chad, has anything come out on Siakim? A Boston media member last week mentioned that he may have had something going on in his personal life. It seemed like informed speculation.

Absolutely nothing in the local media here.

Loved the Heat win last night - only watched the final 2 mins, and the highlight package.  I expect the Celtics to bounce back and tie the series.  Like the last series, I think this still goes 6 or 7.

[TAC]

Tatum finally shows up for the Conference Finals.

[King Postwhore]

I was at my buddy's camp so I couldn't watch the game.  Still saw that a double digit lead was down to 5 at the end of the 4th quarter.