NBA 2020-2021 - v. 2021 Finals: Milwaukee and Giannis rule the basketball world

[KevShmev]

Anyone who believes otherwise - for any sporting event in the next few months - is fooling themselves.

Agreed.  I don't think we'll see the NBA or NHL again till next fall, and I wouldn't be surprised if MLB doesn't start until deep into the summer.

[TAC]

Anyone who believes otherwise - for any sporting event in the next few months - is fooling themselves.

Agreed.  I don't think we'll see the NBA or NHL again till next fall, and I wouldn't be surprised if MLB doesn't start until deep into the summer.

So Bruins get the cup? 

I think that's actually the rule.

[jingle.boy]

James Dolan tested positive. 

[TAC]

James Dolan tested positive. 

[Indiscipline]

https://youtu.be/8s-XfFrgEOU

[jingle.boy]

https://youtu.be/8s-XfFrgEOU

 

  For. NY fans.

[Lonk]

If NBA Players Played Soccer

[TAC]

You have to hand it to the NBA players. Having a video game tournament a couple weeks ago and now the HORSE contest.

At least it's something.

[T-ski]

I’ve already decided the season is over.  I’m in full draft mode now.

[Lonk]

K-Town’s mom died of COVID. That really sucks.

[TAC]

Yeah, I saw that. She couldn't have been that old.

[Lonk]

It looks like she was 58.

[TAC]

That is NOT old.

[contest_sanity]

First 2 episodes of The Last Dance documentary premiere tonight; I'm pumped!!!

[gmillerdrake]

First 2 episodes of The Last Dance documentary premiere tonight; I'm pumped!!!

So good. For me, all this is doing is proving without a doubt that Lebron is good......but he’s not in Jordan’s zip code.

[KevShmev]

You couldn't pay me to watch The Last Dance, but I was amused to read today that Jordan is still bitter about all of those playoff losses to the Pistons and still hates them.  It's been 30 years, maybe it's time to get over it, eh, Mr. alleged GOAT?

[gmillerdrake]

Mr. alleged GOAT?

There is no alleged about it.

[black_biff_stadler]

Wilt would've killed him one on one. There have been some pretty good videos done about how most of the criticisms about Wilt's era are pretty BS when you actually get down to the facts.

[contest_sanity]

Who do we think could have given Wilt the toughest game 1v1? A fully engaged Shaq maybe?

[Indiscipline]

How can you compare players from different eras?

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Mr. alleged GOAT?

There is no alleged about it.

I think that there are a lot of different ways to rank the greatest players of all-time. No one player will come out on top every single way. Russell was the greatest winner, Wilt had the biggest stats, Kareem had the best longevity, Jordan had the best peak, and James is the only guy to be right near the top in every area. All five are very reasonable choices, IMO.

[KevShmev]

To me, any conversation of the best players ever has to include both Larry Bird and Magic Johnson.

[Indiscipline]

To me, any conversation of the best players ever has to include both Larry Bird and Magic Johnson.

I agree. And Tim Duncan.

[TAC]

Who do we think could have given Wilt the toughest game 1v1? A fully engaged Shaq maybe?

How about the guy that actually did it? Bill Russell.

[gmillerdrake]

To me, any conversation of the best players ever has to include both Larry Bird and Magic Johnson.

Yeah. And Jordan References those two non stop. Always Bird first then Magic. I’m just old school and think all three of those guys are night and day better than Lebron.

[contest_sanity]

Who do we think could have given Wilt the toughest game 1v1? A fully engaged Shaq maybe?

How about the guy that actually did it? Bill Russell.

Fair point. I guess I was thinking more of modern players.

[contest_sanity]

As for comparing players of different eras, yeah it's somewhat a futile exercise. The best list I have seen, not so much because I agreed with all his choices, but rather all of the extensive research that was put in and then also the scouting reports he produced for every player on his top 40 list, was done by a guy named Ben Taylor a few years back. The player profiles are amazing for the in-depth analysis and video clips, regardless of if you agree with his order.

Explanation of criteria and top 40 list: https://backpicks.com/2017/12/11/the-backpicks-goat-the-40-best-careers-in-nba-history/

Example of player profile: https://backpicks.com/2018/04/12/backpicks-goat-1-kareem-abdul-jabbar/

EDIT: also should add that many of the player profiles surprisingly bring up a lot of weaknesses and so that's really interesting as well. True scouting reports and not just celebratory.

[Cool Chris]

Wow, that was a LOT of analysis. I can barely stay focused enough to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

The most amazing thing about Kareem to me... some outlet, maybe ESPN, crap I cannot find it now, did a list of players who had a better career in college than they did in the NBA. #1 on the list? Kareem (or Alcindor, at the time). The arguably best player in NBA history had a better basketball playing career while in college. That is crazy. If someone can find that, or dispute my recollection, please do so.

Kareem also has the best acting performance by a pro athlete in a movie ever. "Tell your old man to drag Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 40 minutes."

[Indiscipline]

As for comparing players of different eras, yeah it's somewhat a futile exercise. The best list I have seen, not so much because I agreed with all his choices, but rather all of the extensive research that was put in and then also the scouting reports he produced for every player on his top 40 list, was done by a guy named Ben Taylor a few years back. The player profiles are amazing for the in-depth analysis and video clips, regardless of if you agree with his order.

Explanation of criteria and top 40 list: https://backpicks.com/2017/12/11/the-backpicks-goat-the-40-best-careers-in-nba-history/

Example of player profile: https://backpicks.com/2018/04/12/backpicks-goat-1-kareem-abdul-jabbar/

EDIT: also should add that many of the player profiles surprisingly bring up a lot of weaknesses and so that's really interesting as well. True scouting reports and not just celebratory.

Interesting stuff, thanks for linking.

I still don't trust these kind of trans-era comparisons much though; they feel (to me) like analysing basketball in a vacuum. Where would Rick Barry rank with a three point line? Wilt competing against more athletic centers? MJ without handchecking and with zones allowed? LeBron against 80's defense? Magic and Larry inside the current positionless systems?

They can help corroborating the eye test, and the eye test in my opinion still says MJ is on top, and it's not very close.

[TAC]

Funny you mentioned Larry and Magic in a positionless system. I've watched a ton of classic Celtics games during the lockdown and many against the Lakers, and Larry and Magic played all over the court. Not arguing. Just saying that they were both ahead of their time in that regard.

[Indiscipline]

They were light years ahead. And what's just baffling is they were able to dominate the game from every spot while being brutally manhandled in ways the current refs would punish with actual jail time.

[TAC]

And that's what has really jumped out at me as well. We were watching a game the other night, and I turned to my son and said this was like a hockey game.

The whistles and the flopping are such turn offs in today's game.



It has also allowed me to relive memories of the Boston Garden.

[KevShmev]

Seems like the usual consensus top 10 nowadays (not necessarily in order) is:

Jordan
James
Bird
Magic
Kareem
Duncan
Russell
Wilt
Bryant
Shaq

Of course there are some who will throw in Oscar Robertson or Hakeem, but those 10 seem to get mentioned by far the most.

Interestingly, Magic Johnson is the only player on that list who didn't win a championship without one of the other players on that list (Kareem was on every Lakers championship team with Magic in the 80's).  Not passing judgment on what it means, merely pointing it out.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

As for comparing players of different eras, yeah it's somewhat a futile exercise. The best list I have seen, not so much because I agreed with all his choices, but rather all of the extensive research that was put in and then also the scouting reports he produced for every player on his top 40 list, was done by a guy named Ben Taylor a few years back. The player profiles are amazing for the in-depth analysis and video clips, regardless of if you agree with his order.

Explanation of criteria and top 40 list: https://backpicks.com/2017/12/11/the-backpicks-goat-the-40-best-careers-in-nba-history/

Example of player profile: https://backpicks.com/2018/04/12/backpicks-goat-1-kareem-abdul-jabbar/

EDIT: also should add that many of the player profiles surprisingly bring up a lot of weaknesses and so that's really interesting as well. True scouting reports and not just celebratory.

This project was so well done that it kind of killed all other lists for me, TBH. It's by far and away the most researched basketball analysis I've ever seen. IIRC, the author just ranked players based on how much championship value they added in their own eras.

[KevShmev]

A well-done project, yes, but Kevin Garnett being 8th is a major WTF.  I don't know anyone who would rank Garnett ahead of Bird and Magic all-time.