70's Classic Albums Discussion (now featuring: ZZ Top)

[Harmony]

Stephen Stills has a hearing loss issue that began when he was a young child and has worsened over the years.  His dysarthria is related to that.  It has nothing to do with his cognitive abilities.

[Stadler]

Stephen Stills has a hearing loss issue that began when he was a young child and has worsened over the years.  His dysarthria is related to that.  It has nothing to do with his cognitive abilities.

No, I don't mean the sound/tone of his voice, I mean he sometimes seems to be having a different conversation.  Maybe it's related and I'm being unfair.  Crosby, by way of example, is SO erudite and well-spoken, it's possible it's just perception.   

[Harmony]

Stephen Stills has a hearing loss issue that began when he was a young child and has worsened over the years.  His dysarthria is related to that.  It has nothing to do with his cognitive abilities.

No, I don't mean the sound/tone of his voice, I mean he sometimes seems to be having a different conversation.  Maybe it's related and I'm being unfair.  Crosby, by way of example, is SO erudite and well-spoken, it's possible it's just perception.

I watched that interview with Dan Rather - though it was years ago - I cannot recall if he was wearing his hearing aids or not.  Sometimes people with pretty profound hearing loss can lose bits and pieces of conversations especially when there are more than one person talking.  I suppose that could make it easy for it to seem like he was having a "different conversation."  His hearing loss issues are not a secret certainly, but I'm not aware that he talks very openly about it.  As he's had it to a degree since childhood it could be sort of normalized for him and for his close friends and associates.

And yes, SS did a plethora of drugs back in the day.  Couple that with normal age-related cognitive declines, it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume he has some damage there.  Having a close family friend with a daughter who has hearing loss it gets upsetting when people make assumptions that she isn't intelligent because she has a speech impediment based on that hearing loss.  I just wouldn't make assumptions that SS is suffering from brain damage any more than any of the other guys in the group.

I also agree that David Crosby is pretty masterful at the art of flowery speeches and is a very smart guy for someone who should've been dead about a dozen times in his life.

The issue between the band mates shunning of DC is honestly because of DC's lack of a social filter.  He'd be the first to admit he's an ass and though he has apologized numerous times, it seems the bridges have been burned with little hopes to rebuild them.  It started with Neil Young's choice of girlfriend and now wife, Darryl Hannah, who famously had a row with Crosby's long time friend, Jackson Browne back in the 90s IIRC.  Then Graham Nash dumped his wife for a younger model - Crosby and Nash married their brides in the same ceremony back in the late 80s.  Crosby is still married to his wife, Jan Dancer.  No doubt DC had some feelings around Nash dumping his wife after nearly 40 years and said some hurtful things to the press about it.  Nash has yet to forgive him and very likely never will.  It's sad to a lot of people that CSN and CSNY will never be again.  But I'm not one of them.  I like DC's musical output since they broke up and I think he is doing just fine without them.  I'd rather remember them in their heyday.

Speaking of memories, I just watched the 50th anniversary of Woodstock documentary from NPR.  It's excellent.  I wanted more music but I learned a lot of things I never knew before about those few days on Yasgur's farm.  Highly recommended.

[Stadler]

Stephen Stills has a hearing loss issue that began when he was a young child and has worsened over the years.  His dysarthria is related to that.  It has nothing to do with his cognitive abilities.

No, I don't mean the sound/tone of his voice, I mean he sometimes seems to be having a different conversation.  Maybe it's related and I'm being unfair.  Crosby, by way of example, is SO erudite and well-spoken, it's possible it's just perception.

I watched that interview with Dan Rather - though it was years ago - I cannot recall if he was wearing his hearing aids or not.  Sometimes people with pretty profound hearing loss can lose bits and pieces of conversations especially when there are more than one person talking.  I suppose that could make it easy for it to seem like he was having a "different conversation."  His hearing loss issues are not a secret certainly, but I'm not aware that he talks very openly about it.  As he's had it to a degree since childhood it could be sort of normalized for him and for his close friends and associates.

And yes, SS did a plethora of drugs back in the day.  Couple that with normal age-related cognitive declines, it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume he has some damage there.  Having a close family friend with a daughter who has hearing loss it gets upsetting when people make assumptions that she isn't intelligent because she has a speech impediment based on that hearing loss.  I just wouldn't make assumptions that SS is suffering from brain damage any more than any of the other guys in the group.

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough (legit sorry, that's not snark).  My grandson has apraxia of speech and it's maddening to see people either yell at him thinking that's going to make things better, or talk about him in the third person as if he can't understand them.   I've long had the feeling that formed the basis of my comment, but - and you didn't say this, but it's kind of part and parcel with your post - if I've never met the man or spoken to him, it's really not my place to speculate.    At the end of the day he's a marvelous guitar player, and as that's what he's chosen to put out in the world, that's what we - I - should focus on.   The last third of the second disk of that CSN box is almost all Stills and it's phenomenal.

I also agree that David Crosby is pretty masterful at the art of flowery speeches and is a very smart guy for someone who should've been dead about a dozen times in his life.

The issue between the band mates shunning of DC is honestly because of DC's lack of a social filter.  He'd be the first to admit he's an ass and though he has apologized numerous times, it seems the bridges have been burned with little hopes to rebuild them.  It started with Neil Young's choice of girlfriend and now wife, Darryl Hannah, who famously had a row with Crosby's long time friend, Jackson Browne back in the 90s IIRC.  Then Graham Nash dumped his wife for a younger model - Crosby and Nash married their brides in the same ceremony back in the late 80s.  Crosby is still married to his wife, Jan Dancer.  No doubt DC had some feelings around Nash dumping his wife after nearly 40 years and said some hurtful things to the press about it.  Nash has yet to forgive him and very likely never will.  It's sad to a lot of people that CSN and CSNY will never be again.  But I'm not one of them.  I like DC's musical output since they broke up and I think he is doing just fine without them.  I'd rather remember them in their heyday.

Speaking of memories, I just watched the 50th anniversary of Woodstock documentary from NPR.  It's excellent.  I wanted more music but I learned a lot of things I never knew before about those few days on Yasgur's farm.  Highly recommended.

It's pretty steep - if memory serves, like $700 - but I get monthly updates from Dead.net about new releases, and apparently there's a box set out there now that has the ENTIRE show.  All three days, something like 450 songs... it's missing only two Hendrix songs (the estate wouldn't release them) and I think it was a couple Sha-Na-Na songs that were never recorded in the first place.   

Crosby has played twice now at a local theater I go to - about 500 seats; I've seen The Winery Dogs and Neal Morse there in recent months - and from all accounts it was a magical experience. 

There was an article in People that strongly implied Browne beat up Hannah pretty badly (though the cause has never been confirmed or denied, the injuries were not in doubt).  Neither party has spoken at any length about the accusations since. 

[pg1067]

CSN(Y) was around from my childhood because two of my sisters (who were 16 and 11 years older than me) were big fans of this sort of music.  Their vocal harmonies are amazing, but I probably don't know more than 5-10 of their songs.

On this album, based on the song titles only, I think the only two I know are Teach Your Children and Our House, and I feel like the main reason I know Our House is because it was used in a sausage commercial in the early 80s (and a couple other times).

Oddly enough, one of the first CSN songs I liked as I was getting into popular/rock music was War Games from the movie of the same name.

[Harmony]

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough (legit sorry, that's not snark).  My grandson has apraxia of speech and it's maddening to see people either yell at him thinking that's going to make things better, or talk about him in the third person as if he can't understand them.   I've long had the feeling that formed the basis of my comment, but - and you didn't say this, but it's kind of part and parcel with your post - if I've never met the man or spoken to him, it's really not my place to speculate.    At the end of the day he's a marvelous guitar player, and as that's what he's chosen to put out in the world, that's what we - I - should focus on.   The last third of the second disk of that CSN box is almost all Stills and it's phenomenal.

All good.  And yeah, Stills is one of my favorite pickers.  I have a few of his solo releases and I enjoy them immensely.  And if you've never heard Super Session from '68 with Stills, Mike Bloomfield, and Al Kooper, you're missing out.  Manassas and his self-titled albums from '70 and '75 too.

It's pretty steep - if memory serves, like $700 - but I get monthly updates from Dead.net about new releases, and apparently there's a box set out there now that has the ENTIRE show.  All three days, something like 450 songs... it's missing only two Hendrix songs (the estate wouldn't release them) and I think it was a couple Sha-Na-Na songs that were never recorded in the first place.   

Crosby has played twice now at a local theater I go to - about 500 seats; I've seen The Winery Dogs and Neal Morse there in recent months - and from all accounts it was a magical experience. 

There was an article in People that strongly implied Browne beat up Hannah pretty badly (though the cause has never been confirmed or denied, the injuries were not in doubt).  Neither party has spoken at any length about the accusations since.

About Daryl Hannah and Jackson Browne, I honestly never knew what to make of it.  At one point I saw the police report and looking at that along side the rag magazine accounts it seemed like 2 separate incidents all together.  But then again, police reports can be full of shit so who knows?  It is kind of interesting more hasn't been made of it with the Me Too movement.  Daryl Hannah is a pretty vocal spokeswoman for the environment but hasn't said much (to my knowledge) about the incident with Browne.  I don't follow her closely so I could be wrong.  But I have a feeling the truth isn't out there about it.

Maybe you can answer me a question about that box set though?  My spouse is a bigger Dead fan than I am and said that they hated their performance at Woodstock so much that they never released any material from the show.  The documentary I just watched and the original documentary never showed anything about them other than they were listed on the poster/line up.  Is their set in that box set release you mentioned?  I did see that Spotify had what appeared to be the entire show on a set list.  But I don't support Spotify so I'm out on that one.  I'd probably consider buying that box set for Richie Havens set alone though.   

[Cool Chris]

On this album, based on the song titles only, I think the only two I know are Teach Your Children and Our House, and I feel like the main reason I know Our House is because it was used in a sausage commercial in the early 80s (and a couple other times).

Thank you!! I totally knew that song from a commercial but couldn't remember what it was for.

I know those two plus Woodstock based on their titles, but it would not surprise me if I knew more of them but couldn't place them on titles alone.

[pg1067]

On this album, based on the song titles only, I think the only two I know are Teach Your Children and Our House, and I feel like the main reason I know Our House is because it was used in a sausage commercial in the early 80s (and a couple other times).

Thank you!! I totally knew that song from a commercial but couldn't remember what it was for..

I had to look it up.  Apparently, it was also in a Target commercial a few years back.

[Stadler]

Maybe you can answer me a question about that box set though?  My spouse is a bigger Dead fan than I am and said that they hated their performance at Woodstock so much that they never released any material from the show.  The documentary I just watched and the original documentary never showed anything about them other than they were listed on the poster/line up.  Is their set in that box set release you mentioned?  I did see that Spotify had what appeared to be the entire show on a set list.  But I don't support Spotify so I'm out on that one.  I'd probably consider buying that box set for Richie Havens set alone though.   

As far as I know (and I do not put myself out there as an expert) but you are right with their long-held position on their set.  They have always held their performance with disdain, and denied the release of their set.    But - and I don't have SPECIFIC comments from the Dead camp, but there are a couple things in play:   one, it's the complete set, not snippets, and for example John Fogerty relented when he knew it was CCRs full set and not one song out of context (which is why he wasn't on the original Woodstock film).  Two, since Jerry's death, the rest of the band has been more willing to release warts-and-all shows, (Dick's Picks was something like 34 volumes, Road Trips was 20, Dave's Picks is around 32 now, and there have been six or seven tour, or run box sets, including ALL 20-something shows of the Europe '72 tour).  Three, the material enters the public domain next year, and can be legally bootlegged starting next year.  This release will, in some jurisdictions, renew the copyright for them.   

For the record, the Dead set is five songs, 90 minutes (including one hour of just Dark Star and Turn On Your Love Light).  I've heard the Creedence set is actually REALLY good (and is available separately). 

[Harmony]

Maybe you can answer me a question about that box set though?  My spouse is a bigger Dead fan than I am and said that they hated their performance at Woodstock so much that they never released any material from the show.  The documentary I just watched and the original documentary never showed anything about them other than they were listed on the poster/line up.  Is their set in that box set release you mentioned?  I did see that Spotify had what appeared to be the entire show on a set list.  But I don't support Spotify so I'm out on that one.  I'd probably consider buying that box set for Richie Havens set alone though.   

As far as I know (and I do not put myself out there as an expert) but you are right with their long-held position on their set.  They have always held their performance with disdain, and denied the release of their set.    But - and I don't have SPECIFIC comments from the Dead camp, but there are a couple things in play:   one, it's the complete set, not snippets, and for example John Fogerty relented when he knew it was CCRs full set and not one song out of context (which is why he wasn't on the original Woodstock film).  Two, since Jerry's death, the rest of the band has been more willing to release warts-and-all shows, (Dick's Picks was something like 34 volumes, Road Trips was 20, Dave's Picks is around 32 now, and there have been six or seven tour, or run box sets, including ALL 20-something shows of the Europe '72 tour).  Three, the material enters the public domain next year, and can be legally bootlegged starting next year.  This release will, in some jurisdictions, renew the copyright for them.   

For the record, the Dead set is five songs, 90 minutes (including one hour of just Dark Star and Turn On Your Love Light).  I've heard the Creedence set is actually REALLY good (and is available separately).

I'd definitely be up for listening to the Dead's set.  I understand there were problems also due to the rain and risk of electrocution - not just the fact that they were wasted.  LoL.  It can't be all that bad.

I am so not a CCR fan, but I'd be able to suffer through I'm sure.  I'll definitely consider that box set for sure.  Thanks for the information!

[TAC]

Let us know when you fogeys have finished hijacking the thread!

[Harmony]

Let us know when you fogeys have finished hijacking the thread!

Ok!

Hey Stadler that box set you were talking about is unfortunately sold out!     I saw it on eBay for about $2500 though.   

[KevShmev]

On this album, based on the song titles only, I think the only two I know are Teach Your Children and Our House, and I feel like the main reason I know Our House is because it was used in a sausage commercial in the early 80s (and a couple other times).

Thank you!! I totally knew that song from a commercial but couldn't remember what it was for.

I know those two plus Woodstock based on their titles, but it would not surprise me if I knew more of them but couldn't place them on titles alone.

pg1067/Cool Chris,

I'be shocked if neither of you knew Suite: Judy Blue Eyes. The end of that song is one of those classic rock moments that everyone knows.

[TAC]

Just youtubed Our House, and I did not recognize it.

Did the same for Suite Judy Blue Eyes. I didn't recognize the title, but I definitely know that song, and have always considered that the signature CSN song.

[Harmony]

Suite Judy Blue Eyes is not on Deja Vu but on CSN released in '69 - the year prior to Deja Vu.  I love that song, written for Stills' lady at the time, Judy Collins.



The thing to know about CSN and CSNY is that they all brought their own songs to the studio and the 'best' made the cut for each album.  Each member has a very distinctive style so it isn't difficult to tell who the writers of any particular song was.  And while they collaborated to a degree, it was extremely competitive and thus not conducive in many ways.  There were points when Stills literally took over the tracks while the others were away and obsessively mixed and remixed the songs.  The in-fighting was legendary.  Young was in then he was out then he was in.  The drug use certainly didn't help matters.  It is pretty amazing they held it together for as long as they did.  But when they were on stage and truly working together it was simply magical.

My least favorite member of the band in all honesty is Graham Nash.  Now don't get me wrong, his high harmonies make the sound that CSNY are known for.  He is an integral part of the mix.  But his songs - Our House, Teach Your Children, among others - while very popular for the band - just never really sent me personally.

Favorite tracks of mine:  Guinnevere, Wooden Ships, Long Time Gone, Deja Vu, Ohio, Shadow Captain, Dark Star, Compass.  And Carry Me never fails to bring a tear - now so much more that my mom has passed. 

So TAC, are we good now?   

[Cool Chris]

pg1067/Cool Chris,

I'be shocked if neither of you knew Suite: Judy Blue Eyes. The end of that song is one of those classic rock moments that everyone knows.

I totally know (and like) that song. I was just referring to songs from the Deja Vu.

And not to go back to the drama, but I never knew any of this Jackson Browne/Daryl Hannah. And after a quick Wikipedia search, I learned a lot more. Didn't know she was with John John, is now with Neil Young. I try to actively avoid personal info about musicians, but I feel like I would have at least heard something about that.

I also just learned Jeannie May is dating Jezzy. Thanks TAC!

[pg1067]

On this album, based on the song titles only, I think the only two I know are Teach Your Children and Our House, and I feel like the main reason I know Our House is because it was used in a sausage commercial in the early 80s (and a couple other times).

Thank you!! I totally knew that song from a commercial but couldn't remember what it was for.

I know those two plus Woodstock based on their titles, but it would not surprise me if I knew more of them but couldn't place them on titles alone.

pg1067/Cool Chris,

I'be shocked if neither of you knew Suite: Judy Blue Eyes. The end of that song is one of those classic rock moments that everyone knows.

I both know and really like that song, but it's on the CSN debut album and not on the CSNY album Deja Vu.

[TAC]

I also just learned Jeannie May is dating Jezzy. Thanks TAC!

Just bringing the hip, brother!

[Cool Chris]

I also just learned Jeannie May is dating Jezzy. Thanks TAC!

Just bringing the hip, brother!

Why? Did you fall and break yours?

[KevShmev]

Judas Priest - Unleashed in the East



Many would say that the 70's was the decade of the live album, and this is one that many would list as being one of the more notable; it is certainly a metal classic, even if questions about how live it was remain. I have never hidden the fact that I am a studio album guy, but this is one live release I will listen to somewhat regularly from start to finish, and I find that three of the live versions here obliterate their studio originals - Victim of Changes, Genocide and (the cover) The Green Manilishi.  Around '99/'00, I had a handful of go-to workout CD's and this is one of them.  This is the mighty Priest at their best.

[jammindude]

Great "Live" album.   Just wish they had done the double album thing like most bands were doing.  Could've gotten a near full show that way. 

I haven't picked up the remastered version.  Is that expanded to include the rest of the set from that tour? 

[pg1067]

Judas Priest - Unleashed in the East

This is one of my favorite live albums, even it the vocals are only live-ish, and my gateway to early Priest.  I used to love when Rob would introduce a song and say, "we'd like to go back to the Sin After Sin album! . . . . . . . .  AlsoUnleashedInTheEast!"  Because I heard UITE before any of the earlier albums, these are the go to versions of pretty much all of the songs.  The only negative about this is that it wasn't a double album.

[Max Kuehnau]

Judas Priest - Unleashed in the East

This is one of my favorite live albums, even it the vocals are only live-ish, and my gateway to early Priest.  I used to love when Rob would introduce a song and say, "we'd like to go back to the Sin After Sin album! . . . . . . . .  AlsoUnleashedInTheEast!"  Because I heard UITE before any of the earlier albums, these are the go to versions of pretty much all of the songs.  The only negative about this is that it wasn't a double album.

very true

[pg1067]

Great "Live" album.   Just wish they had done the double album thing like most bands were doing.  Could've gotten a near full show that way. 

I haven't picked up the remastered version.  Is that expanded to include the rest of the set from that tour?

There's a CD version available on Amazon that includes four additional tracks:  Rock Forever, Delivering the Goods, Hell Bent and Starbreaker.

[Stadler]

Great "Live" album.   Just wish they had done the double album thing like most bands were doing.  Could've gotten a near full show that way. 

I haven't picked up the remastered version.  Is that expanded to include the rest of the set from that tour?

There's a CD version available on Amazon that includes four additional tracks:  Rock Forever, Delivering the Goods, Hell Bent and Starbreaker.

Which is just shy of the entire set.  "Evil Fantasies" and "Beyond The Realms Of Death" were recorded at those same shows and released as b-sides, and "White Heat, Red Hot" and "Take On The World" were performed at the shows in question but apparently not recorded (though WHRH was in the middle of the set, so that doesn't really make sense.  TOTW was one of the two encore songs, with Tyrant).   

[Lowdz]

Absolute cracker of a live album, even if it isn’t strictly a live album. Gives those songs a bit of oomph the studio versions lack.

My vinyl came with a 7 inch ep with Rock Forever, Delivering the Goods, Hell Bent for Leather and Starbreaker on it. 

[KevShmev]

I was fine with the original length of the album.  That was the charm of those live albums back then, as they were often the length of studio albums, almost like, "here are the best cuts from a show," as opposed to just putting the whole show on there.  Made it more concise and easier to get through in one listen.

[TAC]

Live albums that don't contain the whole show are always suspect to me.


That said, I always liked what I heard on Unleashed.

[The Walrus]

I've always tried to appreciate Priest, but Halford's voice just makes it impossible. I know that's a hot take, but I just don't get it.

[KevShmev]

That's more of a bad take than a hot one.

[TAC]

Pick K-Lox's side or Kev's side..... 

What a fucking nightmare choice that is...

Let's see, a needle in my eye or bamboo chutes up my fingernails.

[TAC]

I do like Halford, but I've never been a huge Priest guy, which probably sounds weird.

[KevShmev]

Well, I am a big Priest fan, and not much of a Maiden fan, so the "weird" door swings both ways, right?  Besides, it would be boring if we all liked the same thing.

[The Walrus]

Pick K-Lox's side or Kev's side..... 

What a fucking nightmare choice that is...

Let's see, a needle in my eye or bamboo chutes up my fingernails.

Hey, TAC... shut up again! 

[TAC]

Well, I am a big Priest fan, and not much of a Maiden fan, so the "weird" door swings both ways, right?  Besides, it would be boring if we all liked the same thing.

So...you swing both ways? Not that there's anything wrong with that.