Wheel of Time on Amazon

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

I learned two things from watching Game of Thrones:

1.  Expect a lot of editorial changes
2.  Let go of the comparisons to the books and enjoy the show for what it is.

Number two made the TV show a hell of a lot more fun for me to watch.   I'd show up to work on Monday mornings, and my coworkers would spend an hour complaining about the hour they spent watching GOT.  Why would you watch a show if it just makes you complain?  Let go of what it isn't, and take it for what it is.  I'm not a fan of some of the changes they made to Wheel of Time, but tearing it apart just isn't worth it to me.  I have too many other things in my life that are more important than whether or not a TV show is page for page accurate to the books.  Cramming a HUGE book into 8 episodes is impossible.

I read an interesting interview with Rafe Judkins tonight and he confirmed a few things:

1.  Loial is not dead.  His potential death cliffhanger is purposeful, to prepare viewers for real character deaths on the show.  Characters on the show will be killed off, whereas they lived on from book to book.  They have to do this because the show can't sustain 2,000 characters throughout the seasons, where the books could do that. 

I think this will be similar to what GOT did with Sansa Stark - they assigned some of Arya's book plot to her, which helped condense the story for television. 

2.  Rafe also confirmed that Moiraine will remain on the show (I read this to mean that she will not disappear as she does in the books).  They can't just put Rosamund Pike on the bench, being their biggest-name actor, then bring her back 8 seasons later. 

Honestly, I'm taking this show like The Walking Dead - the early seasons were fantastic, even though they meandered through various touchpoints from the book, rather than adapting them scene for scene.  So to me, the location of the Horn of Valere doesn't matter...the fact that they actually brought it into the show is what matters. 

Overall, it was a season meant to confirm the identity of the Dragon Reborn and set up the story for future seasons.  Amazon plans to adapt all 14 books, and increased the budget for season 2.  So we'll see how it goes.

Whichever direction they go with Loial being fatally wounded (he was stabbed with the Shadar Logoth dagger), is going to be dumb. Setting up a fake-out death of a major character (one that shouldn't have happened) just to "prepare" viewers for actual character deaths is dumb and a poor television plot device. It lessens the impact of actual character deaths.

[Melphina]

Standing ovation for that lengthy post, Pup. I'm not quite as incensed as you, but I agree with everything you said basically.

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

Standing ovation for that lengthy post, Pup. I'm not quite as incensed as you, but I agree with everything you said basically.

I can handle changes, but when the changes made are devoid of any common sense or logic, it drives me crazy. And this is my whole point. The books were carefully crafted over years by Robert Jordan. No not everything in the books made complete sense, but at least there was nothing even as close to egregious as what we got in the show. I guess I just need to go listen to the audio books again to cleanse my palette of the abomination that was episode 8. It was like all of season 8 of Game of Thrones rolled into 1 epic failure of an episode.

[Melphina]

Standing ovation for that lengthy post, Pup. I'm not quite as incensed as you, but I agree with everything you said basically.

I can handle changes, but when the changes made are devoid of any common sense or logic, it drives me crazy. And this is my whole point. The books were carefully crafted over years by Robert Jordan. No not everything in the books made complete sense, but at least there was nothing even as close to egregious as what we got in the show. I guess I just need to go listen to the audio books again to cleanse my palette of the abomination that was episode 8. It was like all of season 8 of Game of Thrones rolled into 1 epic failure of an episode.

For what it's worth, I just came across this thread. Apparently Barney Harris leaving REALLY screwed the show over along with the pandemic. Still, that doesn't excuse some of the earlier changes.  https://www.reddit.com/r/WoTshow/comments/rnp7az/daniel_greene_changed_my_mind_about_ep8/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

Standing ovation for that lengthy post, Pup. I'm not quite as incensed as you, but I agree with everything you said basically.

I can handle changes, but when the changes made are devoid of any common sense or logic, it drives me crazy. And this is my whole point. The books were carefully crafted over years by Robert Jordan. No not everything in the books made complete sense, but at least there was nothing even as close to egregious as what we got in the show. I guess I just need to go listen to the audio books again to cleanse my palette of the abomination that was episode 8. It was like all of season 8 of Game of Thrones rolled into 1 epic failure of an episode.

For what it's worth, I just came across this thread. Apparently Barney Harris leaving REALLY screwed the show over along with the pandemic. Still, that doesn't excuse some of the earlier changes.  https://www.reddit.com/r/WoTshow/comments/rnp7az/daniel_greene_changed_my_mind_about_ep8/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

I would have been in favor of delaying the show another year, if it meant doing it right.

[Melphina]

Yeah, in light of those revelations I totally agree.

Still, let's hope season 2 doesn't have as rocky a road. I like the idea of them crunching books 2 and 3 into one season as long as they give enough time to flesh out the important story beats and dive into the lore a bit more. Hopefully they give us the Ishamael-Lews encounter at the start of the season.

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

Yeah, in light of those revelations I totally agree.

Still, let's hope season 2 doesn't have as rocky a road. I like the idea of them crunching books 2 and 3 into one season as long as they give enough time to flesh out the important story beats and dive into the lore a bit more. Hopefully they give us the Ishamael-Lews encounter at the start of the season.

Actually that would be a good cold opening before the battle at Falme. Considering who is involved.

[Evermind]

OK, fair warning. THIS ENTIRE POST WILL BE LITTERED WITH SPOILERS both from all the books and the show. Don't read any further if you don't want spoilers..

<snip>

Way to ruin an incredible story in just 8 episodes. Congratulations Rafe Judkins, you are now on my shit list. After you talked so much about being as faithful as possible to the books, without making too many major changes, you killed the story in one fell swoop.

RIP Wheel of Time TV series.

Also what the hell were the Sul'dam and Da'mane doing at the end of the episode? Making a Tsunami? Why? UUUUGGGGHHH. This episode had to common sense and broke so many of the rules set in place in the Wheel of Time universe.

I haven't watched it yet and neither did I read your post in details because I don't want spoilers yet, but this reminded me of how I ranted in Game of Thrones thread during Season 5 before I quit watching the show.

[kaos2900]

Finished the season. I found it to be intriguing enough to continue watching. I also purchased all of the books and plan on reading them at some point. Definitely felt more Lord of the Rings than Game of Thrones.

[Sacul]

Glad you liked it - the books are great, hope you dig them!

The more I think about the season, the more obvious it becomes that the whole thing was pretty rushed. I know they asked for 10 episodes but were only given 8, and it really feels like so. It still doesn't excuse things that have nothing to do with the plot, like the lackluster cinematography, weak editing, ok lightning, and unfinished special effects. For such a big budget series in 2021, they should have delayed it a few months at least.

I still think they have a chance to mend some of the awkward choices they've made for season 2, and hopefully get more episodes to really help flesh out the characters.

[Logain Ablar]

I haven't posted in a few weeks, but I found my goodwill waning with the final few episodes, and I am pretty disappointed in this season overall. Episode 8 was particularly bad.

Egwene and Nynaeve as powerful as full Aes Sedai? Nynaeve burning out and being resurrected by Egwene? Crazy stuff. The fact that they've made them so powerful leaves them absolutely no room for growth or development as the seasons progress.

Loial gets killed off (or has he really been?), but then nobody cares because he was no better than a cardboard cutout for most of the show.

They could have done with a few extra episodes, but by the same token they wasted a lot of time on side plots like "King Harald the Warder". Surely that time would have been better spent with our main characters?

I give it a generous 6/10. I can't see this lasting more than 3 seasons.

I enjoyed The Witcher S2 a lot more, but then with that one I have no attachment or familiarity with the books or video games, I'm just taking the show for what it is, and maybe that makes all the difference.

[ErHaO]

Yeah... I am going to check out the books one day and not read the spoilers here, but I doubt I will watch this series given the lukewarm reception.

OK, fair warning. THIS ENTIRE POST WILL BE LITTERED WITH SPOILERS both from all the books and the show. Don't read any further if you don't want spoilers..

<snip>

Way to ruin an incredible story in just 8 episodes. Congratulations Rafe Judkins, you are now on my shit list. After you talked so much about being as faithful as possible to the books, without making too many major changes, you killed the story in one fell swoop.

RIP Wheel of Time TV series.

Also what the hell were the Sul'dam and Da'mane doing at the end of the episode? Making a Tsunami? Why? UUUUGGGGHHH. This episode had to common sense and broke so many of the rules set in place in the Wheel of Time universe.

I haven't watched it yet and neither did I read your post in details because I don't want spoilers yet, but this reminded me of how I ranted in Game of Thrones thread during Season 5 before I quit watching the show.

During season 5 already? Damn, if that is your cutoff you should be glad not to have reached season 8. 

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

I haven't posted in a few weeks, but I found my goodwill waning with the final few episodes, and I am pretty disappointed in this season overall. Episode 8 was particularly bad.

Egwene and Nynaeve as powerful as full Aes Sedai? Nynaeve burning out and being resurrected by Egwene? Crazy stuff. The fact that they've made them so powerful leaves them absolutely no room for growth or development as the seasons progress.

Loial gets killed off (or has he really been?), but then nobody cares because he was no better than a cardboard cutout for most of the show.

They could have done with a few extra episodes, but by the same token they wasted a lot of time on side plots like "King Harald the Warder". Surely that time would have been better spent with our main characters?

I give it a generous 6/10. I can't see this lasting more than 3 seasons.

I enjoyed The Witcher S2 a lot more, but then with that one I have no attachment or familiarity with the books or video games, I'm just taking the show for what it is, and maybe that makes all the difference.

2 more episodes and getting rid of these side plots that weren't in the books to begin with and have nothing to do with any of the main characters could have potentially saved this show.....maybe. Considering how they handled the final episode I would still have my doubts though. See my rant several posts back.

I too enjoyed The Witcher S2 more and I am familiar with the books and games. The plot changes over there actually make sense and were more logical.

[Melphina]

Still hanging in there for season 2. I'll stick it out unless they come swinging with some more really poorly planned decisions

[Evermind]

Yeah... I am going to check out the books one day and not read the spoilers here, but I doubt I will watch this series given the lukewarm reception.

OK, fair warning. THIS ENTIRE POST WILL BE LITTERED WITH SPOILERS both from all the books and the show. Don't read any further if you don't want spoilers..

<snip>

Way to ruin an incredible story in just 8 episodes. Congratulations Rafe Judkins, you are now on my shit list. After you talked so much about being as faithful as possible to the books, without making too many major changes, you killed the story in one fell swoop.

RIP Wheel of Time TV series.

Also what the hell were the Sul'dam and Da'mane doing at the end of the episode? Making a Tsunami? Why? UUUUGGGGHHH. This episode had to common sense and broke so many of the rules set in place in the Wheel of Time universe.

I haven't watched it yet and neither did I read your post in details because I don't want spoilers yet, but this reminded me of how I ranted in Game of Thrones thread during Season 5 before I quit watching the show.

During season 5 already? Damn, if that is your cutoff you should be glad not to have reached season 8. 

Sansa rape and Dorne scenes did it for me.

I see so much hate for Season 8 (even still) I'm really glad I didn't keep watching.

[The Curious Orange]

The books were carefully crafted over years by Robert Jordan.

No. no they weren't. I've never read a book series that was so obviously being made up on the fly as this. Don't get me wrong, I LOVED those books, but carefully crafted is one thing you could never accuse them of being.

[Melphina]

The books were carefully crafted over years by Robert Jordan.

No. no they weren't. I've never read a book series that was so obviously being made up on the fly as this. Don't get me wrong, I LOVED those books, but carefully crafted is one thing you could never accuse them of being.

I disagree. It wasn't PERFECTLY planned and certainly even the first book shows that in hindsight but I think he definitely had a plan. The biggest problem was him dragging the story to a crawl and filling it with so much padding just over the halfway mark imo.

[Logain Ablar]

Yeah, I think there was definitely an overall plan, and a destination in sight, but there's a couple of strange sudden turns that lead to overlong storylines, which make me think he was stretching it out a bit.

BTW if you haven't already seen it, this guy gives a pretty fair assessment (I think ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvWxQ7H4uqQ

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

Yeah, I think there was definitely an overall plan, and a destination in sight, but there's a couple of strange sudden turns that lead to overlong storylines, which make me think he was stretching it out a bit.

BTW if you haven't already seen it, this guy gives a pretty fair assessment (I think ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvWxQ7H4uqQ

That's a fair assessment. I agree they definitely needed more episodes and they should have delayed the show to get them in, especially if it changed the plot they were trying to convey. If, in fact, they are going to adapt books 2 & 3 for season 2, then they will definitely need at least 10 episodes. I'd actually prefer they make it 12-14 episodes. They really need to work on character development a lot more and explaining how the world works to turn this around.

[hefdaddy42]

No one has started season 2 yet?

My wife and I tried last night, and realized we are completely lost, and don't remember enough of the details of what went before.  Not sure if that says more about us or the show.

We are going to have to rewatch the first season, or find some really good recap material on youtube.

[gmillerdrake]

No one has started season 2 yet?

My wife and I tried last night, and realized we are completely lost, and don't remember enough of the details of what went before.  Not sure if that says more about us or the show.

We are going to have to rewatch the first season, or find some really good recap material on youtube.

I was planning on it over the holiday weekend but we ended up being busy bodies all weekend so never really had time. I am certain I'll need a good refresher vid on youtube to get reacquainted with what's going on in the show as it's been a bit and the storytelling method of the show is already a bit choppy.

[jammindude]

No one has started season 2 yet?

My wife and I tried last night, and realized we are completely lost, and don't remember enough of the details of what went before.  Not sure if that says more about us or the show.

We are going to have to rewatch the first season, or find some really good recap material on youtube.

I had absolutely no idea they had released it until I saw this.

Is Amazon not marketing this?

[gmillerdrake]

No one has started season 2 yet?

My wife and I tried last night, and realized we are completely lost, and don't remember enough of the details of what went before.  Not sure if that says more about us or the show.

We are going to have to rewatch the first season, or find some really good recap material on youtube.

I had absolutely no idea they had released it until I saw this.

Is Amazon not marketing this?

AMAZON in general isn't very aggressive in the marketing of their shows. I mean, I'll see a pop up add here and there but juxtaposition to Disney+ just with the Ahsoka series where that was promoted everywhere it seems.....AMAZON just doesn't appear to go the distance on the marketing of their content.

[ZirconBlue]

No one has started season 2 yet?

My wife and I tried last night, and realized we are completely lost, and don't remember enough of the details of what went before.  Not sure if that says more about us or the show.

We are going to have to rewatch the first season, or find some really good recap material on youtube.

We watched an "official Amazon recap", which was sufficiently informative, but pretty bland in presentation.  So, I'd steer clear of that one.  When I wanted a recap on The Witcher Season 2, I found one that was both informative and entertaining.  That was from the "Man of Recaps" channel.  If they do a WoT recap, I'd give that a shot.

[hefdaddy42]

No one has started season 2 yet?

My wife and I tried last night, and realized we are completely lost, and don't remember enough of the details of what went before.  Not sure if that says more about us or the show.

We are going to have to rewatch the first season, or find some really good recap material on youtube.

We watched an "official Amazon recap", which was sufficiently informative, but pretty bland in presentation.  So, I'd steer clear of that one.  When I wanted a recap on The Witcher Season 2, I found one that was both informative and entertaining.  That was from the "Man of Recaps" channel.  If they do a WoT recap, I'd give that a shot.

Thanks!

[abydos]

I watched the first three episodes of the new season and it's pretty much more of the same - takes a lot of time to not progress anything meaningfully. I don't remember the books well enough to compare it directly, so most of it is just evaluating it as a fantasy tv show. And with this current pace, it only suffers from its 1 episode per week release schedule.

[Grappler]

I watched the first three episodes last Friday and Saturday.  The last time I read the books was in 2014, so my memory on The Great Hunt is very hazy.  I understand that it can't be exactly like the books, but it was exciting to see a lot of things in the new episodes.  The White Tower interactions and training among the Aes Sedai and novices, Nyanave's trip through the arches, Rand meeting Selene and the introduction of secret meetings of darkfriends and The Forsaken. 

I feel that this season is better than the first season, as more scenes from the books are adapted. 

[cramx3]

No one has started season 2 yet?

My wife and I tried last night, and realized we are completely lost, and don't remember enough of the details of what went before.  Not sure if that says more about us or the show.

We are going to have to rewatch the first season, or find some really good recap material on youtube.

We haven't started yet, maybe next week since we are both busy this week, but I feel very much that I will need a recap on youtube since I hardly remember anything either.

[twosuitsluke]

I didn’t post over here during the first series as I was just too angry. The Wheel of Time is the book series I hold dearest to my heart, and as much as I prepared myself for the changes needed for an adaptation, I wasn’t prepared for the writers to disregard major themes that Jordan embedded in his story.

I agree with Puppies on the abomination that was last series finale and could rant about plenty more on top of what he said (as I’m sure he could too). I am watching series 2 because even though I have little faith in Judkins and crew, I just have to watch to see for myself. There have been positives about Series 2, but they have been few and far between unfortunately. Once again there have been changes I understand (even if I don’t like them), as so much needs to be cut to be adapted for TV, but there is even more that has been changed without seemingly any care or foresight as to how the changes will fuck up huge future events. I don’t want to spoil anything so won’t say anything further.

Anyway, what I actually came here to post was that in watching the latest episode I literally shouted at the TV when realising one of my best friends brothers plays the innkeeper in the scene with Mat and Min! Just wanted to share that   fucking Mikey Pitt in The Wheel of Time!

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

I didn’t post over here during the first series as I was just too angry. The Wheel of Time is the book series I hold dearest to my heart, and as much as I prepared myself for the changes needed for an adaptation, I wasn’t prepared for the writers to disregard major themes that Jordan embedded in his story.

I agree with Puppies on the abomination that was last series finale and could rant about plenty more on top of what he said (as I’m sure he could too). I am watching series 2 because even though I have little faith in Judkins and crew, I just have to watch to see for myself. There have been positives about Series 2, but they have been few and far between unfortunately. Once again there have been changes I understand (even if I don’t like them), as so much needs to be cut to be adapted for TV, but there is even more that has been changed without seemingly any care or foresight as to how the changes will fuck up huge future events. I don’t want to spoil anything so won’t say anything further.

Anyway, what I actually came here to post was that in watching the latest episode I literally shouted at the TV when realising one of my best friends brothers plays the innkeeper in the scene with Mat and Min! Just wanted to share that   fucking Mikey Pitt in The Wheel of Time!

I have a lot to say about this abomination of a TV series

I couldn't even make it through the second episode, it's just so bad and has so little regard to the actual major plotlines of the books. I mean, I understand Covid and the actor playing Mat leaving in the middle of filming screwed over the first season pretty badly, but this season was their chance at redemption. Fix the mistakes you made, but no! This has all been even worse than the last episode of the first season. I will need to find some time to stomach my way through the rest of the episodes this season so I can give a proper scathing review at some point....

At this point, I think we would have been better off if they finished the adaptation with Billy Zane as Ishamael. At least that was faithful to the books, even if the acting was fairly laughable.

[twosuitsluke]

I didn’t post over here during the first series as I was just too angry. The Wheel of Time is the book series I hold dearest to my heart, and as much as I prepared myself for the changes needed for an adaptation, I wasn’t prepared for the writers to disregard major themes that Jordan embedded in his story.

I agree with Puppies on the abomination that was last series finale and could rant about plenty more on top of what he said (as I’m sure he could too). I am watching series 2 because even though I have little faith in Judkins and crew, I just have to watch to see for myself. There have been positives about Series 2, but they have been few and far between unfortunately. Once again there have been changes I understand (even if I don’t like them), as so much needs to be cut to be adapted for TV, but there is even more that has been changed without seemingly any care or foresight as to how the changes will fuck up huge future events. I don’t want to spoil anything so won’t say anything further.

Anyway, what I actually came here to post was that in watching the latest episode I literally shouted at the TV when realising one of my best friends brothers plays the innkeeper in the scene with Mat and Min! Just wanted to share that   fucking Mikey Pitt in The Wheel of Time!

I have a lot to say about this abomination of a TV series

I couldn't even make it through the second episode, it's just so bad and has so little regard to the actual major plotlines of the books. I mean, I understand Covid and the actor playing Mat leaving in the middle of filming screwed over the first season pretty badly, but this season was their chance at redemption. Fix the mistakes you made, but no! This has all been even worse than the last episode of the first season. I will need to find some time to stomach my way through the rest of the episodes this season so I can give a proper scathing review at some point....

At this point, I think we would have been better off if they finished the adaptation with Billy Zane as Ishamael. At least that was faithful to the books, even if the acting was fairly laughable.

Dude, I will PM you.

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

I didn’t post over here during the first series as I was just too angry. The Wheel of Time is the book series I hold dearest to my heart, and as much as I prepared myself for the changes needed for an adaptation, I wasn’t prepared for the writers to disregard major themes that Jordan embedded in his story.

I agree with Puppies on the abomination that was last series finale and could rant about plenty more on top of what he said (as I’m sure he could too). I am watching series 2 because even though I have little faith in Judkins and crew, I just have to watch to see for myself. There have been positives about Series 2, but they have been few and far between unfortunately. Once again there have been changes I understand (even if I don’t like them), as so much needs to be cut to be adapted for TV, but there is even more that has been changed without seemingly any care or foresight as to how the changes will fuck up huge future events. I don’t want to spoil anything so won’t say anything further.

Anyway, what I actually came here to post was that in watching the latest episode I literally shouted at the TV when realising one of my best friends brothers plays the innkeeper in the scene with Mat and Min! Just wanted to share that   fucking Mikey Pitt in The Wheel of Time!

I have a lot to say about this abomination of a TV series

I couldn't even make it through the second episode, it's just so bad and has so little regard to the actual major plotlines of the books. I mean, I understand Covid and the actor playing Mat leaving in the middle of filming screwed over the first season pretty badly, but this season was their chance at redemption. Fix the mistakes you made, but no! This has all been even worse than the last episode of the first season. I will need to find some time to stomach my way through the rest of the episodes this season so I can give a proper scathing review at some point....

At this point, I think we would have been better off if they finished the adaptation with Billy Zane as Ishamael. At least that was faithful to the books, even if the acting was fairly laughable.

Dude, I will PM you.

Oh boy, you're going to get me all riled up again eh? 

[twosuitsluke]

Did you get my PM? I’m happy to discuss here but I’m aware that I could inadvertently spoil stuff for people, if we really get into the meat of what we dislike, and I want to avoid that as much as possible.

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

Did you get my PM? I’m happy to discuss here but I’m aware that I could inadvertently spoil stuff for people, if we really get into the meat of what we dislike, and I want to avoid that as much as possible.

I saw it. I'm just trying to find the time to slog my way through episode 2 and then potentially 3 this weekend and then collect my thoughts. Been exceptionally busy lately, so it's hard to find time to do anything, let alone things that piss me off this much

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

Started Episode 3....15 minutes in....