Randy Rhoads -- Overrated?

[pg1067]

I've wondered about this for a while.

Randy Rhoads died right around the time I was getting into rock music, so I was never an active fan while he was alive.  When I started getting into heavy music, I heard so much about how great Rhoads was and, as a 14/15 year old, I generally believed what I was told.  By the time I was 16 (about a year and a half after Rhoads died), I owned Bilzzard of Ozz and Diary of a Madman.  I had also bought Metal Health by Quiet Riot and started hearing about how Rhoads had been in the band and that they had a couple albums that had only been released in Japan.  By the time Condition Critical was released, I had pretty much lost interest in QR, so I had no real interest in trying to find the two albums with Rhoads.

I started playing bass in 1986 and started buying magazines like Guitar for the Practicing Musician and Guitar Player.  Those magazines regularly featured Randy Rhoads and transcriptions of songs from Blizzard and Diary (and, later, the live version of Suicide Solution on Tribute, which everyone seemed to lose their shit over).

I recall Rhoads winning a "greatest guitarist of all time" poll in Guitar for the Practicing Musician, and he is routinely at or near the top of lists of all time great guitarists (or metal guitarists).  I'm a member of a group on Facebook where people routinely faun over him and proclaim him to be the greatest ever.

While I think that Blizzard and Diary are great albums, and it's obvious that Rhoads was talented, I've always felt like he was overrated.  I've never heard the first two QR albums in full, but the bits and pieces I did hear weren't good, so the entirety of his recorded output as far as most people are concerned is Blizzard and Diary (plus a handful of live recordings).

Can someone really be considered (one of) the greatest ever with a sum total of less than 83 minutes of recorded studio work?  Again, this doesn't include the first two QR albums, but I'd think if those were factored in, it would be detrimental to Rhoads's legacy.  My impression is that he gets more accolades for what he might have been than for what he was.

What say you all?

[Stadler]

Preface:  HUGE Rhoads fan, Diary is a top ten album of all time for me (I have about four songs from that as my go to ring tones) and the outro solo to "Tonight" is both my favorite solo of all time and the greatest musical tragedy of all time (the fade).

I think you nailed it right.  He is ONE of the greatest, he had the potential to BE the greatest, but he didn't get there yet.   By the way I have the two QR records, and if you dont' think it so now, there's nothing on there that would change your mind, to be honest.  Diary is his greatest work, in my opinion, by a long shot.  I do say this though: he was an innovator, and that has been undermined by 30-some-odd years of guys that have taken what he did and kept it going.  Rhoads didn't have that chance, and so he seems a tad "stuck in time", which for me is unfortunate.  I feel the same way about Hendrix.  He never had the chance to record digitally, to use guitar synthesizers, to use sequencers, drum machines and patches... and so Hendrix always sounds so "60's" to me.   I would have loved to hear what Hendrix would have done in 1982, and I would love to hear what Randy Rhoads would be doing in 2019.   

("Hey guys, MP here; my new band with Randy Rhoads, Billy Sheehan and Geoff Downes is in studio!  I can't wait till you here this!")

[KevShmev]

I voted yes, but I get why he is a favorite of many fans.  He simply wasn't around long enough to be considered one of the greats.  And to anyone who pushes back on that and says the same could apply to Hendrix, it is apples and oranges since Hendrix is arguably the most influential rock guitar player ever.  And I say that as someone who is not much of a Hendrix fan.

[Adami]

It's a loaded question.

Is he overrated by people who say he is the best guitarist ever? Obviously. So is everyone else by those same types of people.

Is he generally overrated by people? I don't think so.

[The Walrus]

Absolutely overrated, but it's not his fault he died young. Who knows what he would have gone on to do. I just think so many more guitarists have done bigger, better, and cooler things with the guitar. I mean seriously there's been 37 years of musicians playing rock and metal since he died, it's to be expected.

[Kwyjibo]

He was good, maybe even great and he influenced a lot of guitar players that came after him. I was tempted to say he's overrated but maybe he deserves the praise he gets. But I still don't see him in the top of guitar's all time greatest. His career was too short and I fail to see him as an innovator of the electric guitar.

And his early death "helped" to make him more legendary than he probably was.

[NoseofNicko]

There’s no way anyone who can compose songs like Diary of a Madman and Revelation (Mother Earth) can be overrated.

[TAC]

He was good, maybe even great and he influenced a lot of guitar players that came after him. I was tempted to say he's overrated but maybe he deserves the praise he gets. But I still don't see him in the top of guitar's all time greatest. His career was too short and I fail to see him as an innovator of the electric guitar.

And his early death "helped" to make him more legendary than he probably was.

I agree.

He may not have been an innovator, but as you say, he influenced a ton of people.


Without going all "you had to be there", both Blizzard and then Diary were totally fresh in terms of metal. Rhoads had a unique style as highlighted on those albums.


Personally, I feel he's rated accurately. Not sure why people want to call him overrated. It's not like you hear how great he was everyday, or anyday, really.


All I know is that those albums fucking matter. And they always will. And it's mostly because of Randy Rhoads.

[Stadler]

He was good, maybe even great and he influenced a lot of guitar players that came after him. I was tempted to say he's overrated but maybe he deserves the praise he gets. But I still don't see him in the top of guitar's all time greatest. His career was too short and I fail to see him as an innovator of the electric guitar.

And his early death "helped" to make him more legendary than he probably was.

I agree.

He may not have been an innovator, but as you say, he influenced a ton of people.


Without going all "you had to be there", both Blizzard and then Diary were totally fresh in terms of metal. Rhoads had a unique style as highlighted on those albums.


Personally, I feel he's rated accurately. Not sure why people want to call him overrated. It's not like you hear how great he was everyday, or anyday, really.


All I know is that those albums fucking matter. And they always will. And it's mostly because of Randy Rhoads.

I'm a big proponent of "you had to be there". I can still remember opening Blizzard for the first time and putting it on.  I know what room i was in, what the stereo was...

And I agree that it's "mostly because of Randy Rhoads".   Yeah, Daisley wrote some lyrics, and Ozzy said "sjdhsdjkhfjsjdhfasdjhhfal", but those songs were largely crafted by Randy, and were his vision.

[pg1067]

I was there (just a year or two late).  The sentiment I've read seems fairly consistent with what I wrote.  He was great, no doubt, but IMO, he simply didn't put out enough material to be considered one of the best ever.  I too think his early death pumped his legacy up big time.  I think I've read that he had plans to quit Ozzy's band and immerse himself in the classical guitar.  I wonder if he'd had that chance what his legacy would be, and I agree it's unfortunate we never got to find out.

And yeah, I do see the "greatest ever" thing on the regular as a result of the Facebook group I mentioned.  That was really the impetus for starting this thread.

[wolfking]

Being a guitarist myself for about 20+ years I find this hard to answer.  I can see how people may call him overrated but I'm happy with the status he has too.  Perhaps he just doesn't have the amount of material some would justify with his status which is fair, but some of his solos on those two albums are a guitar players dream.  The world lost a world class musician.

[jjrock88]

Being a guitarist myself for about 20+ years I find this hard to answer.  I can see how people may call him overrated but I'm happy with the status he has too.  Perhaps he just doesn't have the amount of material some would justify with his status which is fair, but some of his solos on those two albums are a guitar players dream.  The world lost a world class musician.

I think this is the best answer to the question.

[bl5150]

I don't think he is over- rated , but then again out here in Australia nobody would know who the hell he is aside from guitarists that are history buffs or were alive at the time.

I grew up a MASSIVE Van Halen fan and , although Rhoads hit properly a few years after,  I always considered Rhoads far more "musical" than Van Halen.    As EVH said himself (paraphrase) his playing was like falling down the stairs and landing on his feet , whereas Rhoads playing - to me at least - was much more complex on a musical level and not too many , if any , were consistently writing at that level in metal at the time.

The album that took him to another level for me was the RR Tribute - the added energy in the Blizzard songs and the way he adjusted multiple guitar parts to a live setting really won me over and RR Tribute would be one of my most played albums ever.

In the context of the time he was around, his age and the path he was on .............I don't think he is over rated.

[King Postwhore]

The reason why I don't think he was overrated was that he sounded like nobody else at the time.  His solos were unique.  That only playing on 2 albums that were in the limelight.

A unique sound and style is something I admire in guitarists.

[TAC]

And yeah, I do see the "greatest ever" thing on the regular as a result of the Facebook group I mentioned.  That was really the impetus for starting this thread.

Just because a few guys in a Facebook group call him the greatest ever, I wouldn't take that to say he is universally overrated.

I think it's fine if someone wants to say that was their all time favorite guitar playing on those two albums, or the greatest guitar playing they've ever heard.

[El Barto]

It's a loaded question.

Is he overrated by people who say he is the best guitarist ever? Obviously. So is everyone else by those same types of people.

Is he generally overrated by people? I don't think so.

This, and I've never heard these people who call him the greatest ever.

I also think people are underestimating his contribution and innovation. I really don't know of people doing what he was doing in '81, but I know plenty who do it now.

I do disagree, though, that the Ozzy albums were all because of RR. I don't guess there's any reason to re-hash that, though.

[TAC]

I do disagree, though, that the Ozzy albums were all because of RR. I don't guess there's any reason to re-hash that, though.

I said that. An overstatement for sure, but musically those are great albums, and while Ozzy certainly completed the package, I just feel like there was some true magic in the playing.

[El Barto]

I do disagree, though, that the Ozzy albums were all because of RR. I don't guess there's any reason to re-hash that, though.

I said that. An overstatement for sure, but musically those are great albums, and while Ozzy certainly completed the package, I just feel like there was some true magic in the playing.

There certainly was. I just think Kerslake and Daisley were every bit as important as RR.

[TAC]

I do disagree, though, that the Ozzy albums were all because of RR. I don't guess there's any reason to re-hash that, though.

I said that. An overstatement for sure, but musically those are great albums, and while Ozzy certainly completed the package, I just feel like there was some true magic in the playing.

There certainly was. I just think Kerslake and Daisley were every bit as important as RR.

Well, you do. But we can discuss that in the Is Lee Kerslake Overrated Thread.

[Stadler]

I think I've read that he had plans to quit Ozzy's band and immerse himself in the classical guitar. 

Lies.  LIES!    (Not really; I've heard what you heard multiple times; I'm just using this as a springboard to post this doc, which is both fascinating and... oddly disturbing in it's way). 

https://youtu.be/cT0F2RIgciE

[Stadler]

I do disagree, though, that the Ozzy albums were all because of RR. I don't guess there's any reason to re-hash that, though.

I said that. An overstatement for sure, but musically those are great albums, and while Ozzy certainly completed the package, I just feel like there was some true magic in the playing.

There certainly was. I just think Kerslake and Daisley were every bit as important as RR.

I just said in a post here that I agreed it was Randy; having said that, we have a unique ability to hear this music without Kerslake and Daisley, and those versions are noticeably different (and in my opinion, sub par, even if both PLAYERS are, technically, better).  Plus we don't know what they gave in the writing room.

[pg1067]

I think I've read that he had plans to quit Ozzy's band and immerse himself in the classical guitar. 

Lies.  LIES!    (Not really; I've heard what you heard multiple times; I'm just using this as a springboard to post this doc, which is both fascinating and... oddly disturbing in it's way). 

https://youtu.be/cT0F2RIgciE

I think more than most musicians who died young, Rhoads would have had a particularly fascinating career had he lived.  Thinking about everything that happened with Metallica, Cliff Burton is another.

[Dublagent66]

I voted no because he was great and ahead of his time with his playing.  He didn't live long enough to potentially become the greatest, but he sure did a lot while he was here.  He will always be one of my favorite guitar players.

This is just pure speculation on my part, but had he lived, I don't think Ozzy would have wanted anyone else playing in his band.  Of course RR may have left the band at some point to do his own thing or form his own band, but we never got a chance to find out.  All I know for sure is, whatever he would have been doing, I would've followed his work.

[wolfking]

Randy is just one of those amazing guitarsts that you just think 'what could have been.'  Such a shame and he had the ability, focus and the technical wizardry to produce so much more.  Randy, Criss Oliva and Jason Becker.  Man, imagine what they could be doing today.

[TAC]

I voted no because he was great and ahead of his time with his playing.  He didn't live long enough to potentially become the greatest, but he sure did a lot while he was here.  He will always be one of my favorite guitar players.

This is just pure speculation on my part, but had he lived, I don't think Ozzy would have wanted anyone else playing in his band.  Of course RR may have left the band at some point to do his own thing or form his own band, but we never got a chance to find out.  All I know for sure is, whatever he would have been doing, I would've followed his work.

I believe Randy had very reluctantly agreed to do one more album with Ozzy. I'd have to go back and check. I have Rudy Sarzo's Off The Rails and he covers this in detail.

[KevShmev]

I'm a big proponent of "you had to be there". I can still remember opening Blizzard for the first time and putting it on.  I know what room i was in, what the stereo was...

I know what you mean.  I remember hearing the version of Crazy Train from Tribute for the first time in 1987 (first time I ever heard any version of the song) and thinking it was pretty bad ass.  And I know the guitar licks in it were a big part of that.  I can only imagine what it was like for those of you in the early 80's hearing those studio versions for the first time.

[TAC]

I do disagree, though, that the Ozzy albums were all because of RR. I don't guess there's any reason to re-hash that, though.

I said that. An overstatement for sure, but musically those are great albums, and while Ozzy certainly completed the package, I just feel like there was some true magic in the playing.

There certainly was. I just think Kerslake and Daisley were every bit as important as RR.

I just said in a post here that I agreed it was Randy; having said that, we have a unique ability to hear this music without Kerslake and Daisley, and those versions are noticeably different (and in my opinion, sub par, even if both PLAYERS are, technically, better).  Plus we don't know what they gave in the writing room.

To this I would say that we have ingrained every drum hit and bass note ingrained in our brain. It's hard to imagine those songs without them.

[El Barto]

I'm a big proponent of "you had to be there". I can still remember opening Blizzard for the first time and putting it on.  I know what room i was in, what the stereo was...

I know what you mean.  I remember hearing the version of Crazy Train from Tribute for the first time in 1987 (first time I ever heard any version of the song) and thinking it was pretty bad ass.  And I know the guitar licks in it were a big part of that.  I can only imagine what it was like for those of you in the early 80's hearing those studio versions for the first time.

It changed my fucking world for the rest of my life.

[King Postwhore]

It took over our 8th grade class. It was talked about,  played on every boombox that we were next to after school and everybody wanted to see him live.

[KevShmev]

I'm a big proponent of "you had to be there". I can still remember opening Blizzard for the first time and putting it on.  I know what room i was in, what the stereo was...

I know what you mean.  I remember hearing the version of Crazy Train from Tribute for the first time in 1987 (first time I ever heard any version of the song) and thinking it was pretty bad ass.  And I know the guitar licks in it were a big part of that.  I can only imagine what it was like for those of you in the early 80's hearing those studio versions for the first time.

It changed my fucking world for the rest of my life.

For me, it was right around the same time MTV started playing the video for You Shook Me All Night Long as well.  That was an eye-opener for me as well. 

[TAC]

For me, it was right around the same time MTV started playing the video for You Shook Me All Night Long as well.  That was an eye-opener for me as well.

Even with the sound off!

[El Barto]

I'm a big proponent of "you had to be there". I can still remember opening Blizzard for the first time and putting it on.  I know what room i was in, what the stereo was...

I know what you mean.  I remember hearing the version of Crazy Train from Tribute for the first time in 1987 (first time I ever heard any version of the song) and thinking it was pretty bad ass.  And I know the guitar licks in it were a big part of that.  I can only imagine what it was like for those of you in the early 80's hearing those studio versions for the first time.

It changed my fucking world for the rest of my life.

For me, it was right around the same time MTV started playing the video for You Shook Me All Night Long as well.  That was an eye-opener for me as well.

Interesting. Back in Black was another seminal album for me, which came out (originally) around the same time as Blizzard, which you also stumbled across years later.

[CrimsonSunrise]

Talented...yes.  As epic as folks claim?  Not in my mind.  There are a TON of late 70's early 80's guitarists I would put above him talent wise.

[gazinwales]

Very talented for sure, not sure about overrated though, but the first two Ozzy albums definitely are to my ears.
They have some decent songs, but all sound very dated now, compared to Back in Black and Heaven and Hell, two classic albums from that era.

[KevShmev]

  Back in Black was another seminal album for me, which came out (originally) around the same time as Blizzard, which you also stumbled across years later.

I didn't hear either album in full until a few years later, since in 1987 we didn't have YT and easy access to every song ever. Damn kids nowadays don't realize how good they have it! 

I think it could easily be argued that Crazy Train is one of the five most iconic and recognizable riffs ever.