Katt's Top 50 Albums v. I bless the rains down in Africa [#1]

[The Walrus]

It's not exactly music you'd put on in the same context you'd listen to any normal rock song. Much like a good prog epic you need to focus on the music and enjoy it in an appropriate environment. Explosions are arguably the most famous post rock group and for good reason imo.

I'm kind of surprised at the lack of enthusiasm for different types of music on a prog forum tbh, or maybe I just do have bad taste in music; there have been more "I don't like this" responses than I admittedly expected even with all the power metal.

But tomorrow there should be an album lots here will appreciate... even though I often still see it slammed

[Lethean]

Maybe you (who are certain you'll hate it) should just listen to one of the shortest songs?  The word "post" is used for a lot of different things and not all of it sounds the same.  You might not like it, and that's cool.  But maybe you will, or you'll like part of it.  Or you still won't like it but i'll give you an idea of something you do like that you could use in Kattelox's next roulette.

Was this aimed at me?  I don't think I was certain I'll hate it, I think not knowing a thing about it (including the genre) is what made me want to try it out.  The third song, Your Hand in Mine, was my favorite of the three (and the shortest although not a short song).  But this is just not my cup of tea.

No no - your post came in pretty much at the same time I was posting mine    It's to those who don't like anything with "post" in it.  And I don't mean it to be snarky even - just that there's a lot of music with "post" in it, most that I probably haven't heard, but what I have heard sounds different enough that I think it's very possible for people to like certain bands but not others.

[Grappler]

Maybe you (who are certain you'll hate it) should just listen to one of the shortest songs?  The word "post" is used for a lot of different things and not all of it sounds the same.  You might not like it, and that's cool.  But maybe you will, or you'll like part of it.  Or you still won't like it but i'll give you an idea of something you do like that you could use in Kattelox's next roulette.

It has nothing to do with the length of the song...I am a Dream Theater fan.     Cram has it right - it's completely lacking any energy, and I love to listen to energetic music.  I listen to Enigma and love that stuff...it's mellow, but still has a groove, is still incredibly catchy and doesn't sound like a lullaby.  I'm a riff guy.  I want a big, meaty riff that gets stuck in my head and can tap my foot to.  Not some musical texture floating around for six minutes without going anywhere.

On a personal note, I can say with reasonable certainty that I'm going to hate anything labeled post-music.  Wikipedia has an entry for post-metal and out of the 44 bands listed on that page belonging to the sub-genre, I don't like any of them (including Tool). 

It's just not my thing.  I listened to some of the music, knew immediately it's not my thing and moved on.

[NoseofNicko]

Post-punk has plenty of cool riffs.

[NoseofNicko]

and pretty much no one does big meaty riffs better than Neurosis which is a post-metal band. Post-metal is probably the heaviest metal subgenre.

[Crow]

I like some post-metal but neurosis and their soundalikes have basically ruined the genre for me 

I feel like they're more sludge metal than post-metal really

[The Walrus]

I strongly disagree there's no energy here. This record is all about the emotional swells. I like tons of styles of music, not the same heavy metal vibe or rock grooves all the time. Energy comes in many forms!

[NoseofNicko]

I’m probably gonna give that Explosions in the Sky album a listen later today. Need to listen to more post-rock. The only post-rock I really listen to is GYBE, Sigur Ros and late Swans.

Edit: Oh and late Talk Talk too of course.

[The Walrus]

I’m probably gonna give that Explosions in the Sky album a listen later today. Need to listen to more post-rock. The only post-rock I really listen to is GYBE, Sigur Ros and late Swans.

Edit: Oh and late Talk Talk too of course.

See Explosions would fit right in with those groups and yet is nothing like them. God Is An Astronaut is another wonderful post-rock band that's got a lot more keyboard and electronic work; their 2005 album All Is Violent, All Is Bright just barely missed out on making this list, and they have several other amazing records. Post-rock is a wonderfully varied genre.

[cramx3]

I strongly disagree there's no energy here. This record is all about the emotional swells. I like tons of styles of music, not the same heavy metal vibe or rock grooves all the time. Energy comes in many forms!

In the songs you tagged, I could see the "emotional swells" but to me, they weren't very energetic and maybe it's just a different energy I am looking for.

I'm kind of surprised at the lack of enthusiasm for different types of music on a prog forum tbh, or maybe I just do have bad taste in music; there have been more "I don't like this" responses than I admittedly expected even with all the power metal.

I apologize for my often negative attitude in this thread, was mostly just sharing my opinions and thoughts but I know there's been a lot of negativity towards your list and personally I love how you defend it to death, as you should.  It's kind of part of why I don't mind saying something negative, you'll come back at me with how I'm wrong and I like it since we are just talking about music where there is no right or wrong, it's just fun.  To me, it's amazing how close and yet how far apart we are in music tastes (I'm talking more about prog/power where we like the same bands but different albums) as for the other styles of music, I'm sure if I started listing my favorite bands outside of metal, I'd get similar responses.

[The Walrus]

Oh it's all good my dude, I wouldn't want people sugarcoating their opinions on something  It definitely gives me an excuse to defend them to the death, 'cause I already know a bunch of these are maligned by their fanbases 

[cramx3]

  and that's why I love this thread

[jingle.boy]

Thinks I'll skip these entries for Strato and SA, and wait until the others come up later / higher up the list.

Revisiting the UYI topic from last week, upon listening to both albums I offer the following:

God Tier - November Rain
Top Shelf - Civil War, You Could Be Mine, Live and Let Die, Bad Obsession, Pretty Tied Up
Good Stuff - Don't Cry (both versions), You Ain't the First, Don't Damn Me, Right Next Door To Hell, Knockin on Heaven's Door, Get in the Ring, Estranged

The rest ranges from 'forgettable' to 'should've never made it past a demo'.  Don't Cry would be better if not for the final 20 seconds of whining.

Dawn of Victory ... it made my Top 50.  https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=29431.msg1141465#msg1141465

The Garden didn't slip through?   That's a quality song.  I am glad you liked Civil War, though; I think that song is criminally underrated.

Nah, The Garden is still crap - didn't like it 30 years ago, didn't like it last weekend.  I've always really liked Civil War - it along with You Could Be Mine got the most radio airtime (the latter aided by the T2 hype-train) upon release - and it's aged really, really well.

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

While I prefer Those Who Tell the Truth Shall Die, Those Who Tell the Truth Shall Live Forever and All of a Sudden I Miss Everyone, that Explosions album is great!

[The Walrus]

While I prefer Those Who Tell the Truth Shall Die, Those Who Tell the Truth Shall Live Forever and All of a Sudden I Miss Everyone, that Explosions album is great!

Both of those are really good. Truth... suffers from its production, and AOAS... goes a bit too far with the slow ambient crescendos and decrescendos for my tastes, but they're awesome records regardless.

#31 I am struggling with the credits online because I found an error, and this is a massive list of musicians, and I want to do this right god damn it, so I'm waiting to post it until I get home this evening. I hope more people will have something to say about this record, since it should be one that's very familiar to people here. Just perhaps not their favorite, but it's mine by a country mile. Let the guessing begin?

[425]

Hmm, just guessing from "massive list of musicians" and "familiar" but "perhaps not their favorite"... maybe Into the Electric Castle?

[The Walrus]

Hmm, just guessing from "massive list of musicians" and "familiar" but "perhaps not their favorite"... maybe Into the Electric Castle?

VERY good guess... But no! Stay tuned...

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

The Earth is Not a Cold Dead Place is one of my favorite albums. I think EITS can be a bit samey in general, so I don't listen to their other stuff all that much, but this album is great.

[The Walrus]

31.
AYREON
01011001
Progressive Rock / Progressive Metal

released January 28th, 2008 via InsideOut Music



DISC 1 – Y
1. Age of Shadows [10:47]
2. Comatose [4:26]
3. Liquid Eternity [8:10]
4. Connect the Dots [4:13]
5. Beneath the Waves [8:26]
6. Newborn Race [7:49]
7. Ride the Comet [3:29]
8. Web of Lies [2:50]

DISC 2 – EARTH
9. The Fifth Extinction [10:29]
10. Waking Dreams [6:31]
11. The Truth Is In Here [5:12]
12. Unnatural Selection [7:15]
13. River of Time [4:24]
14. E=MC2 [5:50]
15. The Sixth Extinction [12:18]

01011001 is

Arjen Anthony Lucassen
(Guitars / Bass / Mandolin / Keyboards / Synthesizer / Organ / Backing vocals)
Ed Warby (Drums / Percussion)

FEATURING

Bob Catley (Vocals on 3, 5, 6, 7, 9, 12, 13, 15)
Tom Englund (Vocals on 1, 3, 5, 6, 7, 9, 12, 15)
Anneke van Giersbergen (Vocals on 1, 2, 5, 9, 10, 15)
Daniel Gildenlöw (Vocals on 1, 3, 5, 6, 9, 15)
Liselotte Hegt (Vocals on 15)
Floor Jansen (Vocals on 1, 3, 5, 6, 7, 9, 15)
Hansi Kürsch (Vocals on 1, 5, 6, 9, 12, 13, 15)
Jørn Lande (Vocals on 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 9, 12, 15)
Steve Lee R.I.P. 2010 (Vocals on 1, 5, 9, 12, 15)
Magali Luyten (Vocals on 3, 7, 15)
Jonas Renkse (Vocals on 1, 10, 12, 15)
Simone Simons (Vocals on 8, 15)
Ty Tabor (Vocals on 4)
Marjan Welman (Vocals on 15)
Wudstik (Vocals on 14, 15)
Phideaux Xavier (Vocals on 8, 15)

WITH

Tomas Bodin (Synthesizer solo on 10)
Joost van den Broek (Synthesizer solo on 15 / Piano on 15)
David Faber (Cello)
Jeroen Goossens (Flute on 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 11, 12, 13 / Recorder on 11 / Tin whistle on 13)
Lori Linstruth (Guitar solo on 6)
Ben Mathot (Violin)
Michael Romeo (Guitar solo on 14)
Derek Sherinian (Synthesizer solo on 9)

That is one monstrous guest roster. I got this album right after it came out due to reading hype about Ayreon online, and it was the first time I ever heard Tom Englund, Anneke van Giersbergen, Floor Jansen, Daniel Gildenlöw, Steve Lee, and Jonas Renkse, as well as the smaller names on the list. Bob Catley, Ty Tabor, Hansi, Jørn, and Simone were the only names I was familiar with, and Hansi and Jorn were the biggest reasons I bought the album in the first place, being highly skeptical of and unfamiliar with prog metal at the time.

Ayreon is all about double-disc conceptual scifi prog rock/metal albums. Wikipedia summarizes 01011001 as follows:

“Through technological advancement, 'Forever', a race of aquatic beings living on Planet Y, has found the secret of longevity. They have advanced to the point that they have become completely dependent on machines and are losing their emotions. A passing comet on a collision course with Planet Earth provides the opportunity to revitalize their race; 'Forever' harness the comet to carry their DNA to a new home on Earth. When the comet and Earth collide, the cataclysmic impact exterminates the dinosaurs (the Fifth Extinction), but from the ashes of destruction, humans arise. At first, the experiment with seeded DNA seems successful: through the humans 'Forever' vicariously relive the emotions they experienced before the age of machines. In order to help mankind overcome their physical ailments and mental limitations, 'Forever' speeds up human evolution. But the result is tragic: people develop a similar technological dependency with their emotions waning just like 'Forever' and moral development not keeping pace with their capacity to invent. 'Forever' must find a way to save mankind from its imminent self-destruction… or should they?”

This is the only Ayreon album I can listen to every track on, in a row, without getting bored or skipping tracks. “Connect the Dots” is a fine song and I never understood why it was slammed after this record was released – it’s not as if the album is lacking in lengthy or proggy metal and rock. “Web of Lies” is easily the lowest point of the album and in my opinion the only arguably disappointing track, but thematically it fits and I get why it’s there. It’s really not that bad, but the whole premise is just a little embarrassing.

The vocal guest roster is my favorite of any Ayreon album, and I think every single vocal melody is wonderful here. Every vocalist is distinct, with their own unique talents and deliveries, and they really help make this record so enjoyable for me. Hansi and Jorn especially have some of my favorite moments. Even Daniel Gildenöw and Tom Englund, whose respective bands I just do not like, sound wonderful. The late Steve Lee sounds phenomenal, and this album also has my favorite Anneke melodies out there.

If I had to choose a favorite, I prefer disc 1 to disc 2, but disc 2 has two incredible epics and a sick groovy rocker in “The Truth Is In Here,” so it’s pretty close. I’m deeply fond of “Comatose” for the dark keyboards and electronic drum beat and a lovely duet between Anneke and Jørn. A shorter and more minimalist track on the album but one of my favorites for sure.

Jonas Renkse also has a lot of my favorite vocal lines on the album. His bleak delivery adds such a melancholy vibe to this album and it brings out a lot of the darkness in the story. This album helped introduce me to Katatonia.

In Summary: Arjen is a talented guy, and I love the concept behind his Ayreon universe and how he goes all-in with every album. But this album has just about everything I like and nothing I dislike. Amazing guest vocalist roster, and each of them is used wonderfully. Powerful, unique riffs and beautiful folky moments with the woodwinds and acoustic guitars. Interesting sonic textures that arise from multiple combinations of unique voices. 10+ minute epics with ensemble casts and a massive overarching story. It’s prog as fuck and totally awesome. Way better than The Human Equation and neither of the newer albums come anywhere close to this one in my opinion.

Katt’s Favorites: Age of Shadows, Comatose, Newborn Race, The Fifth Extinction, The Truth Is In Here, The Sixth Extinction

Listen to "01011001" by Ayreon on Spotify

[Crow]

i like this album but i also liked when arjen did it better & shorter with guilt machine

[The Walrus]

i like this album but i also liked when arjen did it better & shorter with guilt machine

I own that record. It's so fucking boring I regret buying it, but On This Perfect Day isn't bad

[cramx3]

I really need to get into Ayreon.... that guest list is monstrous.

[The Walrus]

I really need to get into Ayreon.... that guest list is monstrous.

So like, most prog nerds will drool over The Human Equation and tell you to listen to that. Which is fine! I think it's horribly overrated but it's clearly a good starting point for Ayreon. But a friend of mine touted that record for years and I just could not get into it, so 01011001 was finally the one that did it for me. THE however has Mikael Akerfeldt, James LaBrie, Devin Townsend, I think Damian Wilson from Threshold... and plenty of others. But me personally, I prefer 01011001 and couldn't recommend it enough to someone who wants to get into Ayreon.

[cramx3]

I really need to get into Ayreon.... that guest list is monstrous.

So like, most prog nerds will drool over The Human Equation and tell you to listen to that. Which is fine! I think it's horribly overrated but it's clearly a good starting point for Ayreon. But a friend of mine touted that record for years and I just could not get into it, so 01011001 was finally the one that did it for me. THE however has Mikael Akerfeldt, James LaBrie, Devin Townsend, I think Damian Wilson from Threshold... and plenty of others. But me personally, I prefer 01011001 and couldn't recommend it enough to someone who wants to get into Ayreon.

So this is kind of sad, I actually have The Theater Equation blu-ray, I've had it for years.  I tried watching once, it starts with JLB on a car, sort of very theater like which was a cool setting to see him in, but musically I felt immediately bored.  I never came back, but I know this is not representative of them, I mean, I'm not sure I made it past the opening song so how could I judge that?  And the new singles I actually did listen to and enjoy.  But I never actually gave them a real chance. 

[Crow]

i like this album but i also liked when arjen did it better & shorter with guilt machine

I own that record. It's so fucking boring I regret buying it, but On This Perfect Day isn't bad

...on this perfect day is the album i mean, yes

[The Walrus]

i like this album but i also liked when arjen did it better & shorter with guilt machine

I own that record. It's so fucking boring I regret buying it, but On This Perfect Day isn't bad

...on this perfect day is the album i mean, yes

See it's been so long I can't even remember the track names. I meant the first song. Twisted, apparently. It's not bad but way too long.

I really need to get into Ayreon.... that guest list is monstrous.

So like, most prog nerds will drool over The Human Equation and tell you to listen to that. Which is fine! I think it's horribly overrated but it's clearly a good starting point for Ayreon. But a friend of mine touted that record for years and I just could not get into it, so 01011001 was finally the one that did it for me. THE however has Mikael Akerfeldt, James LaBrie, Devin Townsend, I think Damian Wilson from Threshold... and plenty of others. But me personally, I prefer 01011001 and couldn't recommend it enough to someone who wants to get into Ayreon.

So this is kind of sad, I actually have The Theater Equation blu-ray, I've had it for years.  I tried watching once, it starts with JLB on a car, sort of very theater like which was a cool setting to see him in, but musically I felt immediately bored.  I never came back, but I know this is not representative of them, I mean, I'm not sure I made it past the opening song so how could I judge that?  And the new singles I actually did listen to and enjoy.  But I never actually gave them a real chance. 

I think THE is incredibly boring, personally, so I understand why you felt bored right away.

[TAC]

 

[jingle.boy]

I see you're back on your schtick of featuring one of the worst albums from an amazing act  !  01 is serviceable, but it has as many low moments as it does high moments.  I agree the roster is filled with A-list talent, but it's just too much - none of them get a meaningful chance to shine.  Even Arjen acknowledged that after the fact  Sometimes, less is more.  And on this album, more is less.

P.S. Damian Wilson is NOT on The Human Equation - he's on Into the Electric Castle though.

@ Cram... start with this album, then The Source, the Into the Electric Castle, then The Human Equation.  Theater Equation is a terrible way to start.  If you don't have experience with the studio album, I can totally see how this puts anyone 'off' of Ayreon.

[The Walrus]

I see you're back on your schtick of featuring one of the worst albums from an amazing act  !  01 is serviceable, but it has as many low moments as it does high moments.  I agree the roster is filled with A-list talent, but it's just too much - none of them get a meaningful chance to shine.  Even Arjen acknowledged that after the fact  Sometimes, less is more.  And on this album, more is less.

Bruh. wut. They all get a chance to shine. I've always disagreed with Arjen having regrets about this album because I think it's balanced perfectly well here. Especially on the epics like Fifth and Sixth Extinction where, like I thought I wrote about (might have deleted it), the call-and-response between the vocalists is just *chef's kiss*.

One of the worst albums? GTFO, mofo - this is the ONLY Ayreon album without a lot of filler or several boring tracks and the only one with a 150% solid guest vocalist roster all around. Fight me! 

[cramx3]

I've often just jumped in with a live dvd or cd of a band to introduce myself to them.  Many times a setlist is like a best of anyway plus if a band isn't good live, then fuck em I say.  So for me starting with a concert video is not that strange, but maybe I just didn't understand the gist of The Theater Equation.  I feel like I'll eventually just get the Source though since I liked the singles and go from there.  I don't need to start with their "best" because then it's just downhill from there

[wolfking]

This album I didn't really find that good.  THE is my go to Ayreon.

[jingle.boy]

I don't need to start with their "best" because then it's just downhill from there

That's why I suggested you start with this album.

MJ... as much as our tastes align, we're going to have to agree to disagree on this matter.  I'm not going to convince you, and you're not going to convince me.  I'll just say this on the matter of none of them getting time to shine ... 15 vocalists on 15 songs; 8 vocalists on Age of Shadows alone; some of them only appear on one or two tracks, while seven (Gildenlow, Englund, Lande, Cately, AVG, Floor and Hansi) are featured on six or more tracks, such that they hardly get more than a few lines per song.  There's just no balance.

TASTES!!!

@ wolfking

[Buddyhunter1]

i like this album but i also liked when arjen did it better & shorter with guilt machine

holy shit I've found one other person that agrees with me

[The Walrus]

Yeah man, I strongly disagree on this album!  But it's all good. I truly do think just about everybody gets their moment in the spotlight, and it's really not even about them each getting an extended time in the spotlight, the magic to me is in how they sing with each other and how their characters answer each other in the lyrics. That's why I don't mind them only getting a few lines - if they work, they work, and to me... they work!    I absolutely love that strong musical effect when one person finishes their 2 lines and then Jorn roars in with his.  FUCK YEAH!!

It's by far Arjen's strongest work, no question, I really wish he'd go all-out like this again. I genuinely believe his regrets on this album are misplaced and have resulted in a couple hamstringed albums since he brought Ayreon back. Double albums need to be as over-the-top as they can in order to justify their length, and I think this one hit the bullseye in that regard. Oh well.

[The Walrus]

Ayreon albums ranked

1. 01011001 - king of the electric castle
2. Into the Electric Castle
big gap
3. maybe THE idk
4. everything else