Author Topic: What pissed you off today? (Read 123590 times)

jingle.boy · « **Reply #70 on:** September 02, 2019, 06:14:30 AM »

I'd fire that fuckin contractor. Quoting the owner, and a prospective owner for the same job is low. Isn't there any confidentiality agreed to in the pricing? Lesson learned... there should be. You should also tear a strip into your realtor for disclosing something that neither needed to - or should have been - disclosed to the buyer, and now may impact the price or sale entirely. Perhaps they should cover the extra costs.

JayOctavarium · « **Reply #71 on:** September 02, 2019, 10:30:14 AM »

I agree with Chad.

Your agent fucked up big time. They should find a way to fix this. ($$$)

millahh · « **Reply #72 on:** September 02, 2019, 10:49:21 AM »

Fuck the agent and double fuck the contractor.

TAC · « **Reply #73 on:** September 02, 2019, 12:22:42 PM »

So I'm not saying the contractor isn't a douche but he doesn't owe anything to the seller, but the issue really lies with the Agent, who I would fire immediately.

Harmony · « **Reply #74 on:** September 02, 2019, 03:46:58 PM »

Thanks guys. Had a long chat with the realtor today. He knows we are not happy. The contractor is fired. I used words like "unethical" and was clear that contractor is not allowed in that house until after we have vacated and he is someone else's hire.

I stood firm on staying within the scope of the work our inspection showed was necessary and said 'absolutely not' to the other things they wanted. If we lose the offer, then so be it.

I am no longer pissed off. I'm actually pretty proud of myself for standing up to the fear of possibly losing the bid and telling the realtor how I felt about the whole situation.

We'll see what happens next.

gmillerdrake · « **Reply #75 on:** September 02, 2019, 06:56:03 PM »

Drawing the 6th pick in a 12 team Fantasy Football Draft. Pretty much the worst position to be in.

And Harmony......Great job standing your ground and staying strong.

TAC · « **Reply #76 on:** September 02, 2019, 07:12:30 PM »

Quote from: gmillerdrake on September 02, 2019, 06:56:03 PM

Drawing the 6th pick in a 12 team Fantasy Football Draft. Pretty much the worst position to be in.

It's 6 picks better than 12!

gmillerdrake · « **Reply #77 on:** September 02, 2019, 07:21:54 PM »

Quote from: TAC on September 02, 2019, 07:12:30 PM

Quote from: gmillerdrake on September 02, 2019, 06:56:03 PM
Drawing the 6th pick in a 12 team Fantasy Football Draft. Pretty much the worst position to be in.

It's 6 picks better than 12!

But 12 gets two picks in a row. It's a 'snake' draft. So, even though you're 12th you can still nab a couple players at once. 6th position is terrible.

TAC · « **Reply #78 on:** September 02, 2019, 07:29:14 PM »

I'm confused...no need to explain.

That's funny you mentioned that. I heard the term snake draft for the first time in my life this afternoon.

Cool Chris · « **Reply #79 on:** September 02, 2019, 07:39:59 PM »

Harmony, I am not an agent but have worked with plenty of them and several contractors in the course of my last employment. You have every right to be upset. If the buyers back out, then let them - assuming delaying the sale won't hurt you financially.

My only confusion is why you had an inspection done prior to listing it. I know some agents like to do this on older homes or rehabbed ones (which we did a few of), but any prospective buyer is going to have their own inspection done.

Harmony · « **Reply #80 on:** September 02, 2019, 08:29:24 PM »

Thanks, gmillerdrake! I am not a huge fan of confrontations in general and while I think our realtor is not a bad guy (he did screw up here) he's kind of like a used car salesman - fast talker, changes the subject a lot. It's annoying and I don't deal well with that type for long. And the fact that he never even acknowledged his error or apologized bothers me. But at this point, I really don't want to start over with another realtor. Plus I'd have to check the contract but I think once the house is listed, I can't anyway for 60 days or something like that.

Quote from: Cool Chris on September 02, 2019, 07:39:59 PM

Harmony, I am not an agent but have worked with plenty of them and several contractors in the course of my last employment. You have every right to be upset. If the buyers back out, then let them - assuming delaying the sale won't hurt you financially.

My only confusion is why you had an inspection done prior to listing it. I know some agents like to do this on older homes or rehabbed ones (which we did a few of), but any prospective buyer is going to have their own inspection done.

We just didn't want any surprises. My parents bought the home in the 80s and while they kept up on some of the maintenance, they didn't do much with the foundation, big trees, deck, etc. If there was going to be $25K worth of dry rot, I wanted to know about it before we put it on the market. We knew the potential buyer would do their own inspection too.

We can swing the payments for now. So if the buyers walk, it won't be the end of the world. But if the economy tanks, it could become worrisome.

Cool Chris · « **Reply #81 on:** September 02, 2019, 09:02:37 PM »

Good plan. We (as investors) never wanted to do a pre-list inspection, but we also did a ton of work on each property so were more knowledgeable about it than an "average" seller would be about their home.

jingle.boy · « **Reply #82 on:** September 03, 2019, 04:00:07 AM »

Inspections done by the seller certainly are rare, but in Harmony's case it makes total sense.

Good on ya Harmony for holding firm. The only thing prospective buyers are entitled to are the inspection report - certainly not contractor's quotes.

Tomislav95 · « **Reply #83 on:** September 03, 2019, 05:56:14 AM »

my boss

Stadler · « **Reply #84 on:** September 03, 2019, 08:02:36 AM »

NOT LEGAL ADVICE (Sorry, I have to write that), but...

If you start to incur losses on this it's not the worst thing in the world to call your attorney (who did you use for the estate work? Who were you going to use on the sale itself?) and inquire into your state's laws regarding agent duty. I believe you may have an angle to get out of any ongoing obligations with that agent, and even if you don't, you may be able to negotiate an out in exchange for other considerations (i.e. a report to the local licensing board, or something similar).

TAC · « **Reply #85 on:** September 03, 2019, 08:06:52 AM »

I was thinking the same thing. Seemed the agent was the one who undermined the whole thing. I didn’t quite understand the blame going to the contractor. There definitely Should be an out in that listing contract for f the realtor doesn’t act in your best interest.

Stadler · « **Reply #86 on:** September 03, 2019, 08:20:53 AM »

Generally speaking the real estate agent has a fiduciary duty to his/her client, and that includes keeping confidential information confidential. The only problem there is it depends a little bit on the wording of the agreement that is signed (for example, if the agent believes he has the consent of his client to disclose, it's a different ballgame). Again, I can't determine that from here, but it's worth relating the story to your attorney and get their take on it.

vtgrad · « **Reply #87 on:** September 03, 2019, 11:44:59 AM »

Quote from: Stadler on September 03, 2019, 08:20:53 AM

Generally speaking the real estate agent has a fiduciary duty to his/her client, and that includes keeping confidential information confidential. The only problem there is it depends a little bit on the wording of the agreement that is signed (for example, if the agent believes he has the consent of his client to disclose, it's a different ballgame). Again, I can't determine that from here, but it's worth relating the story to your attorney and get their take on it.

As someone that deals with this everyday, Stads is correct. Unless you gave permission for your agent to release the full scope of the information, he/she shattered their fiduciary duty to you and you have more than enough ammo to get out of your listing agreement should you choose to do so (start with the local Realtor Association for help reviewing the situation). The buyers can pay for their own Home Inspection... unless you wish to release your inspection to them... and home inspection information is never released to the other party unless there are requests for repairs (normally from Buyer to Seller). Your listing is As-Is so there would be no need to release any information anyway.

If both of these agents work for the same Brokerage and are in the same office, then the conversation could have been turned by the buyer's agent to try and get that info (sounds as if your agent may be a bit inexperienced or perhaps not used to co-workers pulling information from them)... maybe for grounds to re-negotiate the contract price if there's some buyer remorse regarding the price they agreed to pay. I see stuff like this all the time... and Harmony, you nailed the mindset of a good chunk of Realtors in my area with the "used Car Salesman" tag... I'd say it's 60/40. 60% know what their doing and respect the bounds of their profession and 40% will cut your throat with the pen you sign the contract with and throw you under the moving van when something goes wrong to save their thin reputations. The 40% usually don't last long.

The contractor has no fiduciary responsibility to you (unless you signed a contract with them), but sharing bids with the third-party purchasing the home that you still own is sideways and doesn't bode well for the contractor's trustworthiness in my estimation. That's a good way to ruin a reputation unless the contract knows the agents involved and was trying to impress someone. Not a good way to do business in any case.

Harmony · « **Reply #88 on:** September 03, 2019, 07:15:33 PM »

I very much appreciate all the advice. And honestly, if it were just up to me, I'd probably be looking for another realtor. He did say that when he mentioned the contractor (who is now fired) he did so as a means to let the potential buyer's realtor know that we were moving on the crawlspace issues. He was trying to get them to bite, in other words. He's been selling homes for decades. If I want to cut him the tiniest amount of slack, I'd say he let his bravado get ahead of him and he just slipped up.

The potential buyer's realtor does not work for the same company. That thought occurred to me as well but it is not the case. I do think the realtors like to work with certain companies for contracting work, inspections, etc., and thus know all the reputations. I wouldn't be surprised if there were quid pro quo attitudes if not direct kickbacks. But I cannot prove that.

I'm not the executor of my parent's estates - one of my siblings is. And honestly my siblings are done. We've been dealing with this stuff for almost a year and I understand that. I'm the one pushing this issue and the response is, "Yeah, but we need to sell this house now." So I'm sort of stuck in the middle of that part of it.

TAC - I understand what you are saying about the contractor. This isn't the only reason. They've been unprofessional from the get go. The reason why I am so adamant that he be fired is because I think it is improper to work up a bid for a homeowner then essentially pass it off to a potential buyer after it was requested by the homeowner to modify the scope of repairs to fit the inspection report. This guy got his panties in a bunch because we didn't accept his first bid and then deliberately went behind our backs to stick it to us. No - that guy is toast. He's not getting a fucking penny from me.

Interesting aside - my brother-in-law was calling around to get more bids today. One company told him they had an appointment already on the books next week for my parent's address on behalf of the potential buyers. The company also told him that legally they had to give the report to us as well, as we are the homeowners. This also tells me that the buyers aren't ready to walk yet.

Stadler · « **Reply #89 on:** September 04, 2019, 08:21:37 AM »

Best thing I've read here is that I get ZERO sense of panic on your part. Keep that. I call it "Deal Fever", and there's nothing worse (if you're on the same side) or better (if you're on the other side) if you're working it. There's a real benefit to patience, and I see you showing that now. Let the dust settle a bit, hold your guns and see what comes back.

Grappler · « **Reply #90 on:** September 04, 2019, 08:33:47 AM »

Quote from: Harmony on September 03, 2019, 07:15:33 PM

I'm not the executor of my parent's estates - one of my siblings is. And honestly my siblings are done. We've been dealing with this stuff for almost a year and I understand that. I'm the one pushing this issue and the response is, "Yeah, but we need to sell this house now." So I'm sort of stuck in the middle of that part of it.

Can you just offer credits for the work? My father in law sold his house and the work to get the buyers what they wanted after the inspection (rerouting a water heater vent) would have been too costly. So our realtor advised that we just credit the price by X amount (about the same as the quote for repairs, maybe a little less). We dropped the price and they accepted.

Harmony · « **Reply #91 on:** September 04, 2019, 03:08:05 PM »

I don't know about ZERO sense of panic. But so far, I'm keeping that sensation quiet and controlled.

Quote from: Grappler on September 04, 2019, 08:33:47 AM

Can you just offer credits for the work? My father in law sold his house and the work to get the buyers what they wanted after the inspection (rerouting a water heater vent) would have been too costly. So our realtor advised that we just credit the price by X amount (about the same as the quote for repairs, maybe a little less). We dropped the price and they accepted.

We are actually considering taking the 4 or so bids we are getting for the crawl space work and averaging them then going to the prospective buyers and offering them a cash adjustment. The first bid under the scope of our inspection came in at 1,800.00. So depending on what pans out this week, we may offer them 2,500.00 (or so) and let them do the repairs with whomever they choose. It's better than nothing for them and we don't have to mess with the repairs at all. But we are still waiting to hear from them at this point.

Stadler · « **Reply #92 on:** September 05, 2019, 09:19:18 AM »

That's the optimal approach, because as long as the rest of the contract language is consistently "as-is", you're transferring the risk to them.

jasc15 · « **Reply #93 on:** September 07, 2019, 07:15:28 AM »

The exorbitant cost and general poor quality of murphy beds. We renovated our basement, and since we don't have a 3rd bedroom this will be the guest sleeping area. We want a real mattress rather than a sofa bed, so murphy bed is the best solution. The best option seems to be Lori wall beds, which have no hinge/spring mechanism, but they are still $1000. Since they are made of plywood rather than MDF, the quality should be pretty good, but damn, $1000!

Harmony · « **Reply #94 on:** September 07, 2019, 11:36:38 AM »

I have a friend who had a custom murphy bed made and it was upwards of $3000 (but he used some sort of expensive wood). I slept on it once, it wasn't very comfortable. But it is beautiful.
**************

Update for anyone who has been following my saga. Buyers rejected the offer of $2500 and continued to focus on a tree they want cut down (hard no - it's on the border with a neighbor who's a giant asshole and no way we are dealing with that). I was all for walking away. But I was over-ruled by my siblings who are seriously done with the whole thing and ultimately we upped the offer of cash for the crawlspace work plus incentive $ to the tune of about $4400. They accepted and so we're done.

I was a little bit disgruntled about the way it all went down but at the end of the day, I felt a couple of grand was worth their mental health and our continued happy family relationships. I will be a good sport about it. And I had the best sleep in months last night so that tells me it was all weighing on me as well. Good to be done with this part.

jingle.boy · « **Reply #95 on:** September 07, 2019, 03:42:32 PM »

Very happy for your harmony. Hopefully it continues to be smooth sailing until you have the cheque in your hands / deposited

Cool Chris · « **Reply #96 on:** September 07, 2019, 07:42:30 PM »

Lots of negotiating and give and take can sour the taste of a purchase and sale but it sounds like you were able to deal with all the giving and made the best decision for you and your family.

TAC · « **Reply #97 on:** September 07, 2019, 07:44:25 PM »

Quote from: Harmony on September 07, 2019, 11:36:38 AM

but at the end of the day, I felt a couple of grand was worth their mental health and our continued happy family relationships.

Easily

Stadler · « **Reply #98 on:** September 08, 2019, 02:07:13 PM »

Good for you, Harmony. I know everyone is different, but I know I could sleep at night with that outcome as well.

Harmony · « **Reply #99 on:** September 19, 2019, 10:38:27 AM »

Just when I thought the drama/saga was finally coming to an end....

The last day we have possession of our mother's house is the 22nd. The buyers take ownership midnight the 23rd. We are set to sign all the legal documents at 10 am tomorrow.

Part of the final agreement was that the crawl space work would be completed by that date. Yesterday they began the work under the house. So I go over there last night to put the garbage cans out for the last time and when I enter the home, I see a giant divot in the hardwood laminate in the kitchen and several holes in the walls in the bathrooms - including upstairs. I'm freaking out thinking the crawl space guys did all this damage and now we are going to be held responsible to make sure the home is fixed in only a few days.

Get this - it gets better!

Come to find out the buyers brought a contractor over yesterday while the crawl space guys were working and this contractor made the holes and damaged the floor. The buyers had zero authorization to be there. Their realtor now claims he was to meet them there and had a flat tire (bullshit). Even if he had met them there, he was not authorized to be in there and we had the realtor locks changed out so ONLY the crawl space guys could get in. The buyers just traipsed in while the garage was open for the crawlspace guys. I'm furious.

Spoke to our attorney who is handling the estate. Any action we take at this point can definitely jeopardize the sale. I am so close to filing a police report for criminal trespass and vandalism on this contractor and the buyers. I am simply dumbfounded at the sheer brazenness and entitlement of some people.

One thing is for damn sure. Our plans to clean that house from top to bottom on Sunday are done. We will leave them a filthy house for all I care. Screw them.

Stadler · « **Reply #100 on:** September 19, 2019, 11:01:00 AM »

You know this, I'm sure, so this is for everyone else as much as you: document the shit out of the damage - photos, phone logs, take notes of conversations including dates and times, etc. - and if you can do it cheaply and quickly, get an estimate on what the damage might be to fix. Hold this through the next four days. If they take possession cleanly, there's no real damage and you can chalk this up as a great story about a pack of assholes that you got one over on (seriously). If they try ANY last minute bullshit, renegotiations, or games with the closing, BAM, you have the Hammer of Thor to throw if you need it.

I'll tell you what though; f*** people. There's no honor or decorum anymore. And while you are closer and have more insight than I do, I don't sense it was malicious as much as it is just stupid and inconsiderate, but still. I grew up with the notion that someone's house was a sacred thing; the most expensive thing that most people would ever buy, and the place they put their families and their LIVES. Now? It's a set on a shitty reno show on HGTV. (Not to veer off on too much of a tangent, but you ever notice that? On those renovation shows like Property Brothers, people go into other people's houses and make the most rude and disparaging comments. I might THINK it, but as Daryl Hall once said, "some things are better left unsaid." Those are people's HOMES.)

gmillerdrake · « **Reply #101 on:** September 19, 2019, 11:15:33 AM »

Quote from: Stadler on September 19, 2019, 11:01:00 AM

You know this, I'm sure, so this is for everyone else as much as you: document the shit out of the damage - photos, phone logs, take notes of conversations including dates and times, etc. - and if you can do it cheaply and quickly, get an estimate on what the damage might be to fix. Hold this through the next four days. If they take possession cleanly, there's no real damage and you can chalk this up as a great story about a pack of assholes that you got one over on (seriously). If they try ANY last minute bullshit, renegotiations, or games with the closing, BAM, you have the Hammer of Thor to throw if you need it.

This is what I was thinking. Get through the signing and transfer of ownership and get these people out of your life. They've been nothing but a headache and stress for you so unless it's absolutely necessary I'd just bite my tongue so to speak and bide your time until they are no longer a part of your life.

Unless they do like Bill says....they try some stuff then you have this mindless act on their part as ammunition to combat whatever silliness they were to try.

Harmony · « **Reply #102 on:** September 19, 2019, 02:31:25 PM »

Quote from: Stadler on September 19, 2019, 11:01:00 AM

You know this, I'm sure, so this is for everyone else as much as you: document the shit out of the damage - photos, phone logs, take notes of conversations including dates and times, etc. - and if you can do it cheaply and quickly, get an estimate on what the damage might be to fix. Hold this through the next four days. If they take possession cleanly, there's no real damage and you can chalk this up as a great story about a pack of assholes that you got one over on (seriously). If they try ANY last minute bullshit, renegotiations, or games with the closing, BAM, you have the Hammer of Thor to throw if you need it.

I'll tell you what though; f*** people. There's no honor or decorum anymore. And while you are closer and have more insight than I do, I don't sense it was malicious as much as it is just stupid and inconsiderate, but still. I grew up with the notion that someone's house was a sacred thing; the most expensive thing that most people would ever buy, and the place they put their families and their LIVES. Now? It's a set on a shitty reno show on HGTV. (Not to veer off on too much of a tangent, but you ever notice that? On those renovation shows like Property Brothers, people go into other people's houses and make the most rude and disparaging comments. I might THINK it, but as Daryl Hall once said, "some things are better left unsaid." Those are people's HOMES.)

Thanks to you and gmillerdrake for your replies. I just got back from the house where me and my siblings walked through and documented and photographed everything just as you suggested. I agree with you in that I don't think it was malicious but extremely pushy and entitled on the buyer's part. And I also agree that part of what stings about all of this is that it felt like such a violation of what you say is a "sacred thing." And really the last big "thing" that represents my mother and our childhood.

At one point, we talked about having our last day at the house be like an open house for the friends and neighbors of my mom to come by and walk through the house one last time and say goodbye. She entertained there for years and her backyard barbecues and holiday open houses were well-thought of by everyone. In the end, we opted not to do so as it would've been a lot of work considering we no longer have a functioning fridge, oven, or dishwasher - haha! But it's the principle of the thing. We should've been able to if we chose to without having gaping holes in the floor/walls. It feels like our last few days in her home have been diminished in a way by this complete lack of respect for her HOME. That hurts more than anything.

But in a few days it will be done and life will move on. My mom would not want us to get mired down in any legal issues on her behalf so we will let it go (providing they don't do anything stupid at closing).

My sister and I are trying to figure out if we can conjure up the ghost of our mother to haunt that house for the next 30 years. THAT is something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy!

vtgrad · « **Reply #103 on:** September 20, 2019, 10:24:31 AM »

Again... I see this all the time and judging by what you've said previously about the "professionals" involved I'm not at all surprised. I'm truly sorry that your final few memories of this home are a bit tainted; perhaps you can let the better memories wash the taste of this transaction out of your mind.

I again agree with Gary and Stads... bite your tongue unless they try something during the final walk-through or at Closing. If the damage is even mentioned in passing, still bite your tongue. Once the Deed and DOT are signed by the buyer and it's their "home" just get out of there and wash your hands of it.

If you want to freak them out a bit, put an old tape player in that crawl space and leave a loop of The Grand Conjuration running at half speed... put it in a place where they have to really look for it.

jingle.boy · « **Reply #104 on:** September 20, 2019, 12:02:59 PM »

Quote from: vtgrad on September 20, 2019, 10:24:31 AM

Again... I see this all the time and judging by what you've said previously about the "professionals" involved I'm not at all surprised. I'm truly sorry that your final few memories of this home are a bit tainted; perhaps you can let the better memories wash the taste of this transaction out of your mind.

I again agree with Gary and Stads... bite your tongue unless they try something during the final walk-through or at Closing. If the damage is even mentioned in passing, still bite your tongue. Once the Deed and DOT are signed by the buyer and it's their "home" just get out of there and wash your hands of it.

If you want to freak them out a bit, put an old tape player in that crawl space and leave a loop of The Grand Conjuration running at half speed... put it in a place where they have to really look for it.

Behind the drywall.

News: Dream Theater Forums: Biggest Dream Theater online community since 2007.

Author Topic: What pissed you off today? (Read 123590 times)