What pissed you off today?

[TAC]

I've taken my tired, tantrum-throwing kid out of the restaurant to let them cool down for 20 minutes, at the expense of the dinner that *I* paid for getting cold....all so some other families can enjoy *their* dinners in peace.

Once you become a parent, you can say goodbye to hot meals.

[Stadler]

I've taken my tired, tantrum-throwing kid out of the restaurant to let them cool down for 20 minutes, at the expense of the dinner that *I* paid for getting cold....all so some other families can enjoy *their* dinners in peace.

Once you become a patent, you can say goodbye to hot meals.

My kid was largely a good kid, but even so I wish I had back all the extra tips I gave for the waiter/waitresses boxing up an entire, untouched meal to go as we removed ourselves from the situation.   

[romdrums]

When my son was still a baby, we were at Kohl's and I was trying on some pants.  I heard this baby crying super loud, and it just wouldn't stop, and as I'm trying on the pants, I said to myself, "wow, I feel sorry for that parent." I came out after trying them on, and couldn't find my wife or my son.  Eventually found her in the entrance, holding our son, and I said, "man, did you hear that crying baby?" And she said, "yep, that was our son."   

[jingle.boy]

Yes, I paid for that meal, but do I have a RIGHT to it in that moment?  I don't know the answer to that. 

Man alive... not everything about life or humanity need be boiled down to "rights". 

[Stadler]

Yes, I paid for that meal, but do I have a RIGHT to it in that moment?  I don't know the answer to that. 

Man alive... not everything about life or humanity need be boiled down to "rights".

When there are disputes, yes.  When you're talking entitlements, yes. It's really the only way we can fairly discern between two unrelated people.  It's like asking "does every pitch HAVE to boil down to a ball and a strike in baseball"?  Well, yeah. That's the whole point, innit?

[jingle.boy]

Yes, I paid for that meal, but do I have a RIGHT to it in that moment?  I don't know the answer to that. 

Man alive... not everything about life or humanity need be boiled down to "rights".

When there are disputes, yes.  When you're talking entitlements, yes. It's really the only way we can fairly discern between two unrelated people.  It's like asking "does every pitch HAVE to boil down to a ball and a strike in baseball"?  Well, yeah. That's the whole point, innit?

I see neither a dispute or an entitlement in this line of discussion as it relates to a peaceful meal in a restaurant.

[Ben_Jamin]

Yes, I paid for that meal, but do I have a RIGHT to it in that moment?  I don't know the answer to that. 

Man alive... not everything about life or humanity need be boiled down to "rights".

When there are disputes, yes.  When you're talking entitlements, yes. It's really the only way we can fairly discern between two unrelated people.  It's like asking "does every pitch HAVE to boil down to a ball and a strike in baseball"?  Well, yeah. That's the whole point, innit?

I see neither a dispute or an entitlement in this line of discussion as it relates to a peaceful meal in a restaurant.

The dispute is a person having a peaceful meal in a restaurant being disturbed by a noisy, uncontrollable child.

[wolfking]

Having to go to a work 'venues workshop event' tonight from 4pm-9pm, whatever the fuck that is.  Not impressed.

Plus, it's run by people not in my field and only been with the organisation not very long at all.  The main guy running it too, I had a meeting with him and a key staff member yesterday about him having an issue with her doing too many hours time in lieu and the company not happy.  I challenged the fuck out of this guy for an hour and a half, it was great and he had no answers to some of my points. 

Being at a organisation for 15 years and then getting a big boss come in with zero aquatic experience and trying to tell me how things are going to run........



.....I might have some fun with this with the mood I'm in, what's to lose?  It's funny when you have managers come in, don't ask questions and try and change things just to make them tick their boxes and look good and meet their KPI's.  Don't swing your cock around here mate.  I swear some of these fuckers live in future world when they haven't a clue of the industry.

Anyway, endless mini rant over.

[Glasser]

Having to go to a work 'venues workshop event' tonight from 4pm-9pm, whatever the fuck that is.  Not impressed.

Plus, it's run by people not in my field and only been with the organisation not very long at all.  The main guy running it too, I had a meeting with him and a key staff member yesterday about him having an issue with her doing too many hours time in lieu and the company not happy.  I challenged the fuck out of this guy for an hour and a half, it was great and he had no answers to some of my points. 

Being at a organisation for 15 years and then getting a big boss come in with zero aquatic experience and trying to tell me how things are going to run........



.....I might have some fun with this with the mood I'm in, what's to lose?  It's funny when you have managers come in, don't ask questions and try and change things just to make them tick their boxes and look good and meet their KPI's.  Don't swing your cock around here mate.  I swear some of these fuckers live in future world when they haven't a clue of the industry.

Anyway, endless mini rant over.

That sucks and makes zero sense to piss off experienced employees like yourself and what does the company actually gain? Sorry man! 

[wolfking]

Thanks mate.  I'm treating it as all fun now, just gotta laugh sometimes and accept stupidity.

[romdrums]

I love sending emails to people that contain the exact information they need to complete a form I need back from them to complete their purchase, and they send the form with absolutely NONE OF THAT INFORMATION FILLED IN ON SAID FORM!!!
I'm trying to make both of our lives easier here, and you completely fail to understand the assignment.   

[Stadler]

I love sending emails to people that contain the exact information they need to complete a form I need back from them to complete their purchase, and they send the form with absolutely NONE OF THAT INFORMATION FILLED IN ON SAID FORM!!!
I'm trying to make both of our lives easier here, and you completely fail to understand the assignment.   

I didn't do that.  Wait, did I? 

[romdrums]

If you did that, I wouldn't be mad, I would be seriously concerned for your well being. 

[wolfking]

Having to go to a work 'venues workshop event' tonight from 4pm-9pm, whatever the fuck that is.  Not impressed.

Plus, it's run by people not in my field and only been with the organisation not very long at all.  The main guy running it too, I had a meeting with him and a key staff member yesterday about him having an issue with her doing too many hours time in lieu and the company not happy.  I challenged the fuck out of this guy for an hour and a half, it was great and he had no answers to some of my points. 

Being at a organisation for 15 years and then getting a big boss come in with zero aquatic experience and trying to tell me how things are going to run........



.....I might have some fun with this with the mood I'm in, what's to lose?  It's funny when you have managers come in, don't ask questions and try and change things just to make them tick their boxes and look good and meet their KPI's.  Don't swing your cock around here mate.  I swear some of these fuckers live in future world when they haven't a clue of the industry.

Anyway, endless mini rant over.

I forgot I made this post, but after all this over the last month, it has ended up with me apparently having to go to People and Culture (HR) because I challenged this guy and told him things he wants to implement might not work.  He's threatening me with disciplinary action. 

At this event I just brought up a few things they were changing (rostering systems, other protocols) that I didn't know about and my staff were like "WTF".  I asked for them in an open forum where they asked for questions cause I wasn't told myself beforehand, and got howled down.

Long story but afterwards to sum it up he basically tells me "he's the boss now, and my behavior is breaking the company's code of conduct."  I was simply asking a few questions intently and trying to get my point across because you know, I may have an idea on how things run in my area.  Told him in the one on one meeting where he's trying to scare me afterwards that, his lack of empathy and attitude towards me and lack of due diligence for what I've been through with my accident has been non existent and atrocious and I actually take offence.  He returned serve with "what you've been through is no excuse for bad behavior."  Roger that, I have never used it once as an excuse and not missed a day of work since, I just wanted him to know that he has never shown any sympathy towards me afterwards and that affects our working relationship moving forward.  I have no respect because he showed me none but he doesn't want a bar of that.  Complete sociopath I think.

Going to sit back and let things fall in his face.  Not helping you mate and I'll work to rule and let's see how good you go. 

Now to be clear, I'm no saint, I know that I and bring things on myself, but instead and nutting things out like men, his superiority complex takes hold and needs to do things in pathetic way instead of us sitting down and talking it out.  I tried to do that, but his mouth moves too much, complete twat.  I may be outspoken but all my staff thought it was great I asked the questions for them.  They all thought it was great I spoke up for them when needed and tried to put their concerns over the changes forward.  I feel that's what leaders need to do for their people, so fuck him.

[TAC]

Wow Kade, that's very interesting.

First, how did the investigation go for your WORKPLACE accident? Is it complete? Were you given a copy? Have there been any safety measures implemented as a result of your injury ON THE JOB? What is being done to protect others doing that job?

I know you're not the suing kind, but it's an industry here to sue companies for Workers Comp. You were damn near killed, and the people that treated you that said that would surely do the same in court.

The only person that gives a shit what you went through physically, AND mentally, is you. And us here at DTF of course. But your company certainly doesn't. And if this guy is the dick that you are presenting him to be, he won't hesitate to make an example out of you to remove you from what he wants to do. And HR may listen to you, but what's gonna happen is gonna happen. And if you get fired and then sue them, they'll frame it as sour grapes.

I'd speak to a lawyer ASAP. You have worked way to hard and sacrificed way too much to get fucked over. But I feel like you're about to get fucked over. Protect yourself.

[jingle.boy]

I'm kinda in line with Tim... smells like this douche-waffle is looking for a reason to string you up.  You can do one of two things I suppose - prepare for the legal route as Tim says, or just go with the flow.  Do the bare minimum to comply with your job requirements/description.  Just go with the flow.  I know it's hard, but there comes a time when you (royal) just gotta stop caring about something as much as you do - when it's clear that 'care' is not reciprocated in any manner.

Not your monkey; not your circus.  Pretend like you're the water on a lazy river ride.  Just go with the flow, and nothing can stop or change you.

[wolfking]

Wow Kade, that's very interesting.

First, how did the investigation go for your WORKPLACE accident? Is it complete? Were you given a copy? Have there been any safety measures implemented as a result of your injury ON THE JOB? What is being done to protect others doing that job?

I know you're not the suing kind, but it's an industry here to sue companies for Workers Comp. You were damn near killed, and the people that treated you that said that would surely do the same in court.

The only person that gives a shit what you went through physically, AND mentally, is you. And us here at DTF of course. But your company certainly doesn't. And if this guy is the dick that you are presenting him to be, he won't hesitate to make an example out of you to remove you from what he wants to do. And HR may listen to you, but what's gonna happen is gonna happen. And if you get fired and then sue them, they'll frame it as sour grapes.

I'd speak to a lawyer ASAP. You have worked way to hard and sacrificed way too much to get fucked over. But I feel like you're about to get fucked over. Protect yourself.

I'm kinda in line with Tim... smells like this douche-waffle is looking for a reason to string you up.  You can do one of two things I suppose - prepare for the legal route as Tim says, or just go with the flow.  Do the bare minimum to comply with your job requirements/description.  Just go with the flow.  I know it's hard, but there comes a time when you (royal) just gotta stop caring about something as much as you do - when it's clear that 'care' is not reciprocated in any manner.

Not your monkey; not your circus.  Pretend like you're the water on a lazy river ride.  Just go with the flow, and nothing can stop or change you.

Thank you to both of you.  I didn't mean to rant like that and there is obviously A LOT more to the story.  As I said, I'm no saint and I speak up, I'm not the kiss ass type of guy, and the organization hates that, but I don't lower myself to that level just to get ahead.  He's threatened by people that know more than him too, that's obvious, so there's that.

Tim, you're right, no one gives a fuck, and that's fine, I don't care what they think, it's about me and them not caring doesn't make me lose any sleep.  In answer to your question, the investigation is still ongoing, which still weighs heavily on me.  The venue is still closed and they are trying to cover their asses but implementing training and shit like that, so they have taken it seriously but it's only to cover their ass, no one outside my inner circle has given two fucks, but I'm not that type of guy who wants that anyway.  There's just been a lack of respect in that regards from him since day one, and morally I just think that's wrong and he's made it blatantly obvious.  I'm used as an example across the organization now for Health and Safety too which is annoying, but something I can't control and leaning to deal with.

Do I feel like I'm getting fucked over?  Maybe, but I don't think it's related to the accident, that's my issue, and as Tim said, no one gives two fucks.  I'm not the suing kind but makes me wonder sometimes.  I know you two are sitting there probably thinking that I certainly have run ins with a lot of managers and whatnot (lol) and that's kind of true, but I'm loyal to my team as you both know and they know that, and I'll stick up for what's right no matter what the cost.  Could be my downfall but that thinking now is changing.  I need to make it about me, not everyone else.

I don't think he really has grounds to fuck me over, it wouldn't be wise on his part because I really haven't done anything wrong, just took a stab at his ego, and I have contact with a high class lawyer if I need it.  This guy has threatened disciplinary action and it's apparently going to HR but I'm still waiting for an official appointment and this happened three weeks ago and he was giving me the 'heads up', so not sure if he's just bluffing trying to scare me into bowing and kissing his ass.  No matter what though, it's not gonna work, and I'm really not worried at all.

At the moment, I'm pretty much in line with Chad's thinking there.  Chad, I know we've chatted a lot about work stuff and you've offered sound advice which I've always cherished and been so grateful for but I'm taking that approach.  All of the last six months is something I think that has NEEDED to happen and I'm at that point where I am disconnecting the emotional part of me to my work.  I think all of these little things are part of a forced change that will come in time.  I've always thought I'd move on one day and I think this is perhaps the start of a natural evolution in what I need to make changes.  I know change will come around and this is all part of it.  Cop out?  Probably but you both know I've felt kinda stuck and scared to walk away so I think it will come naturally at some point through all this kind of shit.

i'll go with the flow for now and just watch what I do and say, but he'll regret what he's doing and how he's acting, in one way or another.  I'll admit when I'm out of line but when others don't, that's frustrating, and when people think they are royality and have no faults, that doesn't sit well with me, no matter what you're ranking is.  So yes, a lot of my own issues and doing but yep, gonna sit back and work within my scope from now on.

Cheers to both of you, as always.

[El Barto]

I'm kinda in line with Tim... smells like this douche-waffle is looking for a reason to string you up.  You can do one of two things I suppose - prepare for the legal route as Tim says, or just go with the flow.  Do the bare minimum to comply with your job requirements/description.  Just go with the flow.  I know it's hard, but there comes a time when you (royal) just gotta stop caring about something as much as you do - when it's clear that 'care' is not reciprocated in any manner.

Not your monkey; not your circus.  Pretend like you're the water on a lazy river ride.  Just go with the flow, and nothing can stop or change you.

Having been in a very similar situation, I respectfully disagree. I mean, I completely agree about having to stop caring about a job. The company doesn't care about you and will keep right on rolling along long after they jettison you. Going with the flow is ultimately unsatisfying, though. Either you've already distinguished yourself in such a way that they're going to find a reason to get rid of you regardless, or the business side of things will deteriorate and you'll be the one to catch the flack. In Kade's case, if management is as inept as he's suggesting, business will suffer and it won't be the idiot boss that is blamed for it (initially, you can't hide forever). It it's reached a head, and his description sure suggests that it has, you either move on under the best circumstances, or you go scorched Earth. That was my choice.

Also, "going with the flow," or doing the bare minimum in this case,  is unfair to the people you work with. Those sorts of people are insufferable.

Either way, CYA applies in full. The company is damn sure covering its own, you need to do the same.

[TAC]

Either way, CYA applies in full. The company is damn sure covering its own, you need to do the same.

Exactly.

And Kade, it never hurts just to talk to somebody. I think this guy will move on you for the slightest reason.

[wolfking]

I'm kinda in line with Tim... smells like this douche-waffle is looking for a reason to string you up.  You can do one of two things I suppose - prepare for the legal route as Tim says, or just go with the flow.  Do the bare minimum to comply with your job requirements/description.  Just go with the flow.  I know it's hard, but there comes a time when you (royal) just gotta stop caring about something as much as you do - when it's clear that 'care' is not reciprocated in any manner.

Not your monkey; not your circus.  Pretend like you're the water on a lazy river ride.  Just go with the flow, and nothing can stop or change you.

Having been in a very similar situation, I respectfully disagree. I mean, I completely agree about having to stop caring about a job. The company doesn't care about you and will keep right on rolling along long after they jettison you. Going with the flow is ultimately unsatisfying, though. Either you've already distinguished yourself in such a way that they're going to find a reason to get rid of you regardless, or the business side of things will deteriorate and you'll be the one to catch the flack. In Kade's case, if management is as inept as he's suggesting, business will suffer and it won't be the idiot boss that is blamed for it (initially, you can't hide forever). It it's reached a head, and his description sure suggests that it has, you either move on under the best circumstances, or you go scorched Earth. That was my choice.

Also, "going with the flow," or doing the bare minimum in this case,  is unfair to the people you work with. Those sorts of people are insufferable.

Either way, CYA applies in full. The company is damn sure covering its own, you need to do the same.

Wise words Barto, appreciatethe thoughts man.  As I said, I know its a cop out but you're right, whatever I do, and if results suffer, I will be the one that he will blame anyway.

You're right, it's the people around me that will suffer, but it's come to a point where I'm tired of thinking of everyone else and need to think for me.  That's where leaving is probably the best answer but I'm too much of a pussy.

Either way, CYA applies in full. The company is damn sure covering its own, you need to do the same.

Exactly.

And Kade, it never hurts just to talk to somebody. I think this guy will move on you for the slightest reason.

Its looking that way mate.

[wolfking]

The other thing is I have a lot of annual and long service up my sleeve if I need extended time out.  I mean like.......48 weeks worth, not just a couple of months.  Me going on extended leave would expose the company but would leave my colleagues in the shit.

[TAC]

The other thing is I have a lot of annual and long service up my sleeve if I need extended time out.  I mean like.......48 weeks worth, not just a couple of months.  Me going on extended leave would expose the company but would leave my colleagues in the shit.

Based on what you went through, a doctor should easily be able to write your out.

Also...book a vacation. And GO!

[wolfking]

The other thing is I have a lot of annual and long service up my sleeve if I need extended time out.  I mean like.......48 weeks worth, not just a couple of months.  Me going on extended leave would expose the company but would leave my colleagues in the shit.

Based on what you went through, a doctor should easily be able to write your out.

Also...book a vacation. And GO!

I still have my workers comp letter, a doctor would easily write me out mate.

And yeah, might really have to come for a trip over soon haha.

[El Barto]

The other thing is I have a lot of annual and long service up my sleeve if I need extended time out.  I mean like.......48 weeks worth, not just a couple of months.  Me going on extended leave would expose the company but would leave my colleagues in the shit.

Do you mean like paid time off, accrued over years of employment? If so, I agree with Tim. Start using it. I don't know how things work down there, so maybe it's something different. I know that here an employee is entitled to accrued PTO, even if he's let go, but there are also ways the Aussie version of Bosk could find to keep you from getting it. I wouldn't necessarily expect them to give you what's yours if they get rid of you, and that's time/money you've earned.

If you're describing some sort of Aussie social security thing that you've paid into, that's a different story. Save that for when they fire you.

[wolfking]

The other thing is I have a lot of annual and long service up my sleeve if I need extended time out.  I mean like.......48 weeks worth, not just a couple of months.  Me going on extended leave would expose the company but would leave my colleagues in the shit.

Do you mean like paid time off, accrued over years of employment? If so, I agree with Tim. Start using it. I don't know how things work down there, so maybe it's something different. I know that here an employee is entitled to accrued PTO, even if he's let go, but there are also ways the Aussie version of Bosk could find to keep you from getting it. I wouldn't necessarily expect them to give you what's yours if they get rid of you, and that's time/money you've earned.

If you're describing some sort of Aussie social security thing that you've paid into, that's a different story. Save that for when they fire you.

Yeah mate, holiday paid leave that we accrue over years and also long service leave which you accrue and can take after 7 years of employment.  I've been here since 2008.

Whatever happens, I'm owed that time, regardless so that's nice.

[TAC]

But what if they fire you for "cause"? I don't think they'd want to pay you your 4 years worth of accrued time.

You need to talk to a lawyer.

[El Barto]

The other thing is I have a lot of annual and long service up my sleeve if I need extended time out.  I mean like.......48 weeks worth, not just a couple of months.  Me going on extended leave would expose the company but would leave my colleagues in the shit.

Do you mean like paid time off, accrued over years of employment? If so, I agree with Tim. Start using it. I don't know how things work down there, so maybe it's something different. I know that here an employee is entitled to accrued PTO, even if he's let go, but there are also ways the Aussie version of Bosk could find to keep you from getting it. I wouldn't necessarily expect them to give you what's yours if they get rid of you, and that's time/money you've earned.

If you're describing some sort of Aussie social security thing that you've paid into, that's a different story. Save that for when they fire you.

Yeah mate, holiday paid leave that we accrue over years and also long service leave which you accrue and can take after 7 years of employment.  I've been here since 2008.

Whatever happens, I'm owed that time, regardless so that's nice.

Long service leave is a foreign concept here (and in most places, actually). Did some reading up on it and that's kind of a sweet deal. And it does seem you're entitled to it no matter what. Personally, that would seriously change my attitude towards my employment (and not to the benefit of my employer  ).

[cramx3]

I'm on TAC's side here.  My fear is that even if you just do the bare minimum, the problem is your boss is still going to implement something you don't think will work and you won't put the effort into supporting if you do the bare minimum.  They could place the blame on you, not the new boss, as a scapegoat.  Especially taking into consideration your near death experience there which makes me think the lawyer route makes sense.  If you have all that PTO, definitely take some of it at least.  You need the break and there seems to be plenty to still get a payout if you leave.

[wolfking]

But what if they fire you for "cause"? I don't think they'd want to pay you your 4 years worth of accrued time.

You need to talk to a lawyer.

What do you mean cause?  Cause of the accident?  They can't do that.  I've already been told that.

The other thing is I have a lot of annual and long service up my sleeve if I need extended time out.  I mean like.......48 weeks worth, not just a couple of months.  Me going on extended leave would expose the company but would leave my colleagues in the shit.

Do you mean like paid time off, accrued over years of employment? If so, I agree with Tim. Start using it. I don't know how things work down there, so maybe it's something different. I know that here an employee is entitled to accrued PTO, even if he's let go, but there are also ways the Aussie version of Bosk could find to keep you from getting it. I wouldn't necessarily expect them to give you what's yours if they get rid of you, and that's time/money you've earned.

If you're describing some sort of Aussie social security thing that you've paid into, that's a different story. Save that for when they fire you.

Yeah mate, holiday paid leave that we accrue over years and also long service leave which you accrue and can take after 7 years of employment.  I've been here since 2008.

Whatever happens, I'm owed that time, regardless so that's nice.

Long service leave is a foreign concept here (and in most places, actually). Did some reading up on it and that's kind of a sweet deal. And it does seem you're entitled to it no matter what. Personally, that would seriously change my attitude towards my employment (and not to the benefit of my employer  ).

Yeah, its a nice safety net I have indeed mate, especially after a lot of years of hard work and service.  I'm kind of just been banking it all as long as I can just for a situation exactly like this.

[wolfking]

I'm on TAC's side here.  My fear is that even if you just do the bare minimum, the problem is your boss is still going to implement something you don't think will work and you won't put the effort into supporting if you do the bare minimum.  They could place the blame on you, not the new boss, as a scapegoat.  Especially taking into consideration your near death experience there which makes me think the lawyer route makes sense.  If you have all that PTO, definitely take some of it at least.  You need the break and there seems to be plenty to still get a payout if you leave.

Thanks Marc.  That's definitely a concern.  As I said I'd need to do a lot more for them to ping me and fire me and to be fair, I'm not the bludging type for the sake of it.  My motivation can be down but I'd never intentionally fuck things up or miss things, that's not my nature.

He's definitely trying to bait me.  Even another email today where I've answered a question but it wasn't good enough.  Trying to get a rise out of me for sure and knows I'm a bit firey.

I might see if he follows through with the HR meeting to give me something officially.  If that happens, game on.

I appreciate the support, this place is the best!

[jingle.boy]

I'm kinda in line with Tim... smells like this douche-waffle is looking for a reason to string you up.  You can do one of two things I suppose - prepare for the legal route as Tim says, or just go with the flow.  Do the bare minimum to comply with your job requirements/description.  Just go with the flow.  I know it's hard, but there comes a time when you (royal) just gotta stop caring about something as much as you do - when it's clear that 'care' is not reciprocated in any manner.

Not your monkey; not your circus.  Pretend like you're the water on a lazy river ride.  Just go with the flow, and nothing can stop or change you.

Having been in a very similar situation, I respectfully disagree. I mean, I completely agree about having to stop caring about a job. The company doesn't care about you and will keep right on rolling along long after they jettison you. Going with the flow is ultimately unsatisfying, though. Either you've already distinguished yourself in such a way that they're going to find a reason to get rid of you regardless, or the business side of things will deteriorate and you'll be the one to catch the flack. In Kade's case, if management is as inept as he's suggesting, business will suffer and it won't be the idiot boss that is blamed for it (initially, you can't hide forever). It it's reached a head, and his description sure suggests that it has, you either move on under the best circumstances, or you go scorched Earth. That was my choice.

Also, "going with the flow," or doing the bare minimum in this case,  is unfair to the people you work with. Those sorts of people are insufferable.

Either way, CYA applies in full. The company is damn sure covering its own, you need to do the same.

Totally fair comments Barto.  We'll agree to disagree.  I've been in this situation twice in the past, and if the business was to suffer, it's reflective of the changes that were made at the time the 'suffering' started - in Kade's case, the new Manager.  Going with the flow is something I had to do for my own piece of mind, both in and outside of work.  Do the job adequately and effectively, keep the outside shit to a 'white noise', collect my pay and call it a day.  I know Kade well enough to know he's always gone WAY above the call of duty, but (to me) it seems the lack of appreciation has finally mounted to the point that continuing to perform to that level is going to be personally detrimental to him.

What I'm suggesting is that he throttle back his work effort back to the normal range, not in the constant red-line as he usually is (in a good way).  I sincerely doubt that would make him 'insufferable' to his peers.

It's kinda funny seeing all these US responses/perspectives (no offense guys, really), towards employment issues, when the US (law) treats employees no better than they do pregnant women  .

@ Kade a lot of what you're saying is completely foreign (as Barto said ... pun fully intended) for US workers.
 "for cause" is a term meant to imply that an employee violated their terms of employment, or code of conduct, or something that is grounds for immediate termination.  In the US, it basically means that companies can terminate employees, and owe them nothing, or next to nothing.  In some cases, it's easy (eg, sexual harassment); in others, it's more difficult (eg, poor performance).  The company will offer little/no severance, and only their accrued vacation time (where applicable).  The US legally does not require employers to allow employees to carry over vacation time, so in most instances, it's a 'use it or lose it' matter regarding annual vacation.  If I earn 3 weeks vacation, I have to use it before December 31st, or it vanishes.  Termination 'without cause' usually involves some form of severance package, so that the terminated employee doesn't take legal action.  And even then, severance packages usually suck ass - unless you're an executive high up in the organization - and usually comes with the condition of "shut your fuckin mouth and don't tell any of our secrets".

[wolfking]

Thanks Chad, a lot of what you said is spot on.  Its coming down to my own peace of mind as to why I may need to tone it down.  You are correct, my colleagues at times can notice, but not enough that I'm not doing my job or supporting them I wouldn't think.

Yeah I thought that what it may have been when Tim mentioned that, I just wasn't sure if it was the same terms.  We have that too, called a 'show cause' notice.  It could mean a variety of outcomes, same as what you said.  I'm not sure if I am getting one of those but that's what I'm waiting on.  It may also just be cautionary warning which is like a scare tactic.  To have something on my personnel file either way doesn't sit well, but time will tell.

And yeah, I should remember its different over here with leave and all that stuff.  We get it pretty damn good over here.  That's astounding to me you guys lose holiday pay if you don't use it.  Even XMAS leave we get paid out if we don't use it.

[El Barto]

I'm kinda in line with Tim... smells like this douche-waffle is looking for a reason to string you up.  You can do one of two things I suppose - prepare for the legal route as Tim says, or just go with the flow.  Do the bare minimum to comply with your job requirements/description.  Just go with the flow.  I know it's hard, but there comes a time when you (royal) just gotta stop caring about something as much as you do - when it's clear that 'care' is not reciprocated in any manner.

Not your monkey; not your circus.  Pretend like you're the water on a lazy river ride.  Just go with the flow, and nothing can stop or change you.

Having been in a very similar situation, I respectfully disagree. I mean, I completely agree about having to stop caring about a job. The company doesn't care about you and will keep right on rolling along long after they jettison you. Going with the flow is ultimately unsatisfying, though. Either you've already distinguished yourself in such a way that they're going to find a reason to get rid of you regardless, or the business side of things will deteriorate and you'll be the one to catch the flack. In Kade's case, if management is as inept as he's suggesting, business will suffer and it won't be the idiot boss that is blamed for it (initially, you can't hide forever). It it's reached a head, and his description sure suggests that it has, you either move on under the best circumstances, or you go scorched Earth. That was my choice.

Also, "going with the flow," or doing the bare minimum in this case,  is unfair to the people you work with. Those sorts of people are insufferable.

Either way, CYA applies in full. The company is damn sure covering its own, you need to do the same.

Totally fair comments Barto.  We'll agree to disagree.  I've been in this situation twice in the past, and if the business was to suffer, it's reflective of the changes that were made at the time the 'suffering' started - in Kade's case, the new Manager.  Going with the flow is something I had to do for my own piece of mind, both in and outside of work.  Do the job adequately and effectively, keep the outside shit to a 'white noise', collect my pay and call it a day.  I know Kade well enough to know he's always gone WAY above the call of duty, but (to me) it seems the lack of appreciation has finally mounted to the point that continuing to perform to that level is going to be personally detrimental to him.

What I'm suggesting is that he throttle back his work effort back to the normal range, not in the constant red-line as he usually is (in a good way).  I sincerely doubt that would make him 'insufferable' to his peers.

It's kinda funny seeing all these US responses/perspectives (no offense guys, really), towards employment issues, when the US (law) treats employees no better than they do pregnant women  .

@ Kade a lot of what you're saying is completely foreign (as Barto said ... pun fully intended) for US workers.
 "for cause" is a term meant to imply that an employee violated their terms of employment, or code of conduct, or something that is grounds for immediate termination.  In the US, it basically means that companies can terminate employees, and owe them nothing, or next to nothing.  In some cases, it's easy (eg, sexual harassment); in others, it's more difficult (eg, poor performance).  The company will offer little/no severance, and only their accrued vacation time (where applicable).  The US legally does not require employers to allow employees to carry over vacation time, so in most instances, it's a 'use it or lose it' matter regarding annual vacation.  If I earn 3 weeks vacation, I have to use it before December 31st, or it vanishes.  Termination 'without cause' usually involves some form of severance package, so that the terminated employee doesn't take legal action.  And even then, severance packages usually suck ass - unless you're an executive high up in the organization - and usually comes with the condition of "shut your fuckin mouth and don't tell any of our secrets".

It's kinda funny seeing all these US responses/perspectives (no offense guys, really), towards employment issues, when the US (law) treats employees no better than they do pregnant women  .

The difference is rather stark, isn't it?

I certainly get what you're saying, and agree completely with "throttling it back to the normal range." Just looking at it through my more cynical eye, I've seen how this is going to play out from both sides. No employee is as valuable as they think they are, and the higher up you are the easier it is to distance yourself from failures (again, for a while). If the outcome is inevitable, which from my American point of view it is, it's better to make the best of it. That could be by pulling the ejection rings now, or by having some fun with it. Admittedly, my approach was not for everybody, and I honestly wouldn't recommend it, but it was the right one for me at the time and I'm glad I went out the way I did.

Also, I think much of this comes down to the nature of the work and the company. Aside from working at a pool I have no idea what Kade does, or what you did when in your comparable situations. I was very much at the bottom of the totem pole, and only went off the reservation when it was clear I'd never be able to move up, contrary to the typical platitudes. 

[Stadler]

Totally fair comments Barto.  We'll agree to disagree.  I've been in this situation twice in the past, and if the business was to suffer, it's reflective of the changes that were made at the time the 'suffering' started - in Kade's case, the new Manager.  Going with the flow is something I had to do for my own piece of mind, both in and outside of work.  Do the job adequately and effectively, keep the outside shit to a 'white noise', collect my pay and call it a day.  I know Kade well enough to know he's always gone WAY above the call of duty, but (to me) it seems the lack of appreciation has finally mounted to the point that continuing to perform to that level is going to be personally detrimental to him.

What I'm suggesting is that he throttle back his work effort back to the normal range, not in the constant red-line as he usually is (in a good way).  I sincerely doubt that would make him 'insufferable' to his peers.

That's different, though, than "the bare minimum".  "Bare minimum" gets you fired in the U.S. more often than not, if the company has half a handle on what's going on.  Working in the mid-range, working adequately and effectively, is a different story, and in the meantime, Kade might even find some job satisfaction in that.  You - Kade - need to set yourself up for your next move, whatever it is.  If you leave, having done the "bare minimum", in absentia you will be the scapegoat, at least until another comes along (to Bart's point, that manager can't hide forever).  If you stay, or that manager leaves before you, you want the track record of still being a good employee, so you can settle into a decent spot regardless.

It's kinda funny seeing all these US responses/perspectives (no offense guys, really), towards employment issues, when the US (law) treats employees no better than they do pregnant women  .

Cheap shot; the error isn't in how US law treats employees, it's the idea that we as employees are entitled to anything.  Breaking that mindset is a big step in the direction of that "go with the flow" you talk about.

Termination 'without cause' usually involves some form of severance package, so that the terminated employee doesn't take legal action.  And even then, severance packages usually suck ass - unless you're an executive high up in the organization - and usually comes with the condition of "shut your fuckin mouth and don't tell any of our secrets".

To be fair, that's one way of looking at things.  Not everyone is so cynical.     Vacations are encouraged to be taken; the reason for not allowing vacation to accrue is so that people DO take time off.  Plus, we're not equipped here in the States (usually) to have someone just fuck off for three months.  Honestly, while I am very much aware that I am not indispensable - they could hire someone to do my job as well as me in about two weeks, max - I also know that with our current staffing, I am not invisible either.  It would take a full onboarding to replace me, something they are not equipped to do on a temporary basis.  Plus, and this is a "Stadler problem", I can't intellectually separate myself for that period of time.   

As for "SYFMADTAOOS", there are two sides to that as well; we are an "at-will" employment market.  I can leave tomorrow - without the package - and go work for my competitor immediately.  If I'm going to be rewarded - I picked that word carefully; there is no "entitlement" in a reward - for my service, it's not unfair that it come with a quid pro quo, and if that QPQ is "don't use what we taught you against us for the betterment of our direct competitor" then so be it.

I'm sorry to sound argumentative, I don't mean it that way, but the "woe is me, poor employee, while the corporations march through life like King Kong" schtick is sort of tired and not always that accurate.

[El Barto]

It's kinda funny seeing all these US responses/perspectives (no offense guys, really), towards employment issues, when the US (law) treats employees no better than they do pregnant women  .

Cheap shot; the error isn't in how US law treats employees, it's the idea that we as employees are entitled to anything.  Breaking that mindset is a big step in the direction of that "go with the flow" you talk about.

And changing that mindset to a paradigm where people can at least be entitled to not be miserable in their servitude might address the "why people shoot up their neighborhood" question.

Vacations are encouraged to be taken; the reason for not allowing vacation to accrue is so that people DO take time off.

I'd bet you a buck that at least 2/3 of the Americans on this forum have been made to feel bad for actually using their PTO, or been denied it until a time of the company's convenience, normally the last minute before the rollover date. Companies might actually appreciate that time off is good for the employees at a philosophical level, but in my experience practical matters always take precedence.