Your controversial opinions on movies and TV

[lordxizor]

In retrospect, most of the characters in Friends were kind of terrible people in many respects. Why we rooted for Ross and Rachel to get together in the end is a mystery to me now. They were kind of terrible together and to each other.

That said,  still like the show and we watch reruns every now and then.

[Zantera]

I used to love Friends when i was younger and think it was the holy grail of sitcoms but I think especially after having seen Seinfeld, my opinion of Friends definitely got lower. If you can accept that the show doesn't really offer much depth and that the funny jokes have been done before (and better) and that the characters are basically cartoon characters I still think it's OK entertainment. Seinfeld will never be topped for me but Friends sits comfortably in the B-tier of "very OK" sitcoms and i'd still take it over more modern mediocrities like How i Met your Mother.

[cramx3]

Seinfeld and Fresh Prince were much more up my ally for sitcoms back in the day.  Friends just never appealed to me for whatever reason.

[Adami]

I also couldn’t stand Ross and Rachel. Not a huge Monica fan but I did like her and chandeller

But yea this show was good cause of Phoebe and Joey.

[Zantera]

I think Friends also suffered a bit from flanderization where in the first few seasons the characters had their quirks but felt somewhat like real people but as the show went on the characters became more and more defined by that one quirk. With that said on my last rewatch I think I preferred the last 5 seasons over the first 5 because it felt less realistic and that somehow made it more entertaining to me. The first few seasons felt like a more legit attempt at serious elements sprinkled in but in the later seasons the different situations they end up in were like saturday morning cartoon show.

[KevShmev]

I always find it best to not nit pick comedic sitcoms too much.  Friends is a comedy, and still makes me laugh when I catch the re-runs, so it continues to do its job, although some of the later seasons are pretty spotty.  Heck, Seinfeld is still the funniest show ever, IMO, all four main characters would be fairly unlikable if you knew people like them in real life. 

[pg1067]

I always find it best to not nit pick comedic sitcoms too much.  Friends is a comedy, and still makes me laugh when I catch the re-runs, so it continues to do its job, although some of the later seasons are pretty spotty.  Heck, Seinfeld is still the funniest show ever, IMO, all four main characters would be fairly unlikable if you knew people like them in real life.

Couldn't agree more re Friends.

I never thought Seinfeld was terribly funny, but the last part is absolutely correct.  There are lots of characters I like in terms of watching them on TV but wouldn't in a million years associate with them if they were real.

[KevShmev]

I never thought Seinfeld was terribly funny, but the last part is absolutely correct.  There are lots of characters I like in terms of watching them on TV but wouldn't in a million years associate with them if they were real.

Dwight K. Schrute.

Awesome TV character and hilarious, but if you knew him in real life, you'd want to punch him in the face repeatedly.

[pg1067]

I never thought Seinfeld was terribly funny, but the last part is absolutely correct.  There are lots of characters I like in terms of watching them on TV but wouldn't in a million years associate with them if they were real.

Dwight K. Schrute.

Awesome TV character and hilarious, but if you knew him in real life, you'd want to punch him in the face repeatedly.

I had to look up who that was.  The Office is a show that continues to elude me.  I've seen a handful of episodes on planes, and I'm generally of the opinion that any show or movie on a plane is at least 1.5x better than if saw it anywhere else, but I always find myself wondering where the funny is.  The only episode I can specifically recall is one where two people went on a sales call.  I'm guessing it was one of the earlier seasons because the person whose car it was had a GPS unit, and that was something of a novelty.  Eventually, the GPS told them to drive into a river, and the two characters engaged in a debate over whether they should or should not drive into the river (with one character saying something like, "maybe it knows something we don't!").  The setup was ok for a minor chuckle, but they pushed it way beyond the point where it was funny.

[Ben_Jamin]

Well, since this is the "controversial opinions" thread...I've never really liked the Bond films.  At all.  Ever.

Same here. I only watched GoldenEye and The World is Not Enough because I played the games.

[Ben_Jamin]

I think Friends also suffered a bit from flanderization where in the first few seasons the characters had their quirks but felt somewhat like real people but as the show went on the characters became more and more defined by that one quirk. With that said on my last rewatch I think I preferred the last 5 seasons over the first 5 because it felt less realistic and that somehow made it more entertaining to me. The first few seasons felt like a more legit attempt at serious elements sprinkled in but in the later seasons the different situations they end up in were like saturday morning cartoon show.

I do like how the writers covered up Lisa Kudrow being pregnant, although a bit odd.

[gmillerdrake]

Johnny Carson is one of the most over rated celebrities ever. Not all that talented and just benefited from lack of opportunity for other funnier, more talented people.

[Architeuthis]

Johnny Carson is one of the most over rated celebrities ever. Not all that talented and just benefited from lack of opportunity for other funnier, more talented people.

Jay Leno was the funniest of all the tonight show hosts to this day.  Fallon is multi-talented and funny, but Leno made me laugh harder..

[Cool Chris]

There are very few people who did what Carson did for that long a period, at that level of quality, with that level of style, and that level of success.

[lordxizor]

I thought Letterman was the best of them all. Though admittedly my exposure to Carson has been limited since he was really before my time.

[gmillerdrake]

There are very few people who did what Carson did for that long a period, at that level of quality, with that level of style, and that level of success.

There was ‘some’ talent there....sure. But there were like three networks for the majority of his career and he had near zero ‘competition’.

He wasn’t getting fired because this lore of ‘Johnny Carson’ and the tonight show had been crafted. He was one of the ‘good ol boyz’ of Hollywood that had his position due to ‘who’ he was as much or even more than how talented he actually was

I’m not saying he was wretched and no good. I’m just saying he’s severely over rated and very fortunate.

[jingle.boy]

For the time and era and culture of his tenure, he was the bomb.  Trying to compare him (or anything) to todays standards will always result in disappointment.

[Cool Chris]

There was ‘some’ talent there....sure. But there were like three networks for the majority of his career and he had near zero ‘competition’.

He wasn’t getting fired because this lore of ‘Johnny Carson’ and the tonight show had been crafted. He was one of the ‘good ol boyz’ of Hollywood that had his position due to ‘who’ he was as much or even more than how talented he actually was

I’m not saying he was wretched and no good. I’m just saying he’s severely over rated and very fortunate.

Don't totally disagree with you (except for the severely overrated part). But to echo what I said in the Ringo Starr thread, luck may have had a hand in his success, but he still had to go out there every night for 3 decades and deliver.

[SoundscapeMN]

Art Fern and Carnac = WIN.

[ozzy554]

David Tennant was my least favorite Doctor and his send off special The End of Time I think is one of the worst episodes of the series new and old. Funny thing is I love David Tennant as an actor and He does have some fantastic episodes like Midnight. I just really dislike a lot of what RTD did with the character. It's also why the Simm Master is my least favorite Master

Also I rank Colin Baker above Tom Baker, Just barely but I do. Colins work with Big Finish is just amazing.

[TAC]

There are very few people who did what Carson did for that long a period, at that level of quality, with that level of style, and that level of success.

There was ‘some’ talent there....sure. But there were like three networks for the majority of his career and he had near zero ‘competition’.

He wasn’t getting fired because this lore of ‘Johnny Carson’ and the tonight show had been crafted. He was one of the ‘good ol boyz’ of Hollywood that had his position due to ‘who’ he was as much or even more than how talented he actually was

I’m not saying he was wretched and no good. I’m just saying he’s severely over rated and very fortunate.

He's not overrated in the slightest. He is the Gold Standard of talk show hosts and no one has even come close to him. Letterman was very good, but compared to the clowns now like Fallon and Kimmel, you can't even compare.

[KevShmev]

Gary, you make me sad.   I am with TAC (always painful words to type )...Johnny Carson was awesome.  When it comes to late night TV, for me Carson and Letterman are 1a and 1b, and with the exception of Conan, who I might put as a distant 3rd, none of the current crop comes close to touching either.  Leno was funny, but was a back-stabbing scumbag, so he gets docked points for that.

[TAC]

That was painful to read!

[Cool Chris]

David Tennant was my least favorite Doctor and his send off special The End of Time I think is one of the worst episodes of the series new and old. Funny thing is I love David Tennant as an actor and He does have some fantastic episodes like Midnight. I just really dislike a lot of what RTD did with the character. It's also why the Simm Master is my least favorite Master

Also I rank Colin Baker above Tom Baker, Just barely but I do. Colins work with Big Finish is just amazing.

I literally did not recognize anything in this post.

[MoraWintersoul]

I always find it best to not nit pick comedic sitcoms too much.  Friends is a comedy, and still makes me laugh when I catch the re-runs, so it continues to do its job, although some of the later seasons are pretty spotty. 

Yeah, same. It's possible to pick it apart to an absurd degree, but I still find it kinda funny. Of course, I was about 12 when the last season was running and then they cycled through the reruns several times, so I pretty much grew up on Friends.

Why we rooted for Ross and Rachel to get together in the end is a mystery to me now.

Because they were the only ones who had something resembling a multi-season story arc with actual stakes involved. The other characters really didn't do much that would require us to remember things from the previous seasons.

i'd still take it over more modern mediocrities like How i Met your Mother.

I was just reminiscing about that. HIMYM was just... too much. Most of the actors really went above and beyond to sell the inherent hamminess (is this a word) of the show, but at some points you just want to see something funny, and instead they give you three new Barney-coined words with their dictionary definitions, seven perspective changes and five yellow umbrella teases when you know damn well this season is still not the one where Ted even gets to see the mother.

[gmillerdrake]

Gary, you make me sad.   I am with TAC (always painful words to type )...Johnny Carson was awesome.  When it comes to late night TV, for me Carson and Letterman are 1a and 1b, and with the exception of Conan, who I might put as a distant 3rd, none of the current crop comes close to touching either.  Leno was funny, but was a back-stabbing scumbag, so he gets docked points for that.

Alright....alright. I get what Chad, you and Tim are saying. Sure, You don't make it that long without some sort of talent. I personally just don't think he was 'that' talented. He was in the right place at the right time IN the right time in history. Near zero competition.....Hollywood was an old white boys club.....and what media that was around heavily pimped him and crafted the lore that we know today.

[jingle.boy]

Gary, you make me sad.   I am with TAC (always painful words to type )...Johnny Carson was awesome.  When it comes to late night TV, for me Carson and Letterman are 1a and 1b, and with the exception of Conan, who I might put as a distant 3rd, none of the current crop comes close to touching either.  Leno was funny, but was a back-stabbing scumbag, so he gets docked points for that.

Alright....alright. I get what Chad, you and Tim are saying. Sure, You don't make it that long without some sort of talent. I personally just don't think he was 'that' talented. He was in the right place at the right time IN the right time in history. Near zero competition.....Hollywood was an old white boys club.....and what media that was around heavily pimped him and crafted the lore that we know today.

But can't the same sentiment be had of damn near anything?  Athletes, actors, politicians, musicians... any form of greatness.  Will anyone truly appreciate the greatness Gretzky/Orr/Lemieux that didn't experience it live?  Would the Beatles be as iconic/legendary as they were if they came to America in the 2010s, instead of the 1960s?

(or insert any legendary names in any given discipline).

[gmillerdrake]

Gary, you make me sad.   I am with TAC (always painful words to type )...Johnny Carson was awesome.  When it comes to late night TV, for me Carson and Letterman are 1a and 1b, and with the exception of Conan, who I might put as a distant 3rd, none of the current crop comes close to touching either.  Leno was funny, but was a back-stabbing scumbag, so he gets docked points for that.

Alright....alright. I get what Chad, you and Tim are saying. Sure, You don't make it that long without some sort of talent. I personally just don't think he was 'that' talented. He was in the right place at the right time IN the right time in history. Near zero competition.....Hollywood was an old white boys club.....and what media that was around heavily pimped him and crafted the lore that we know today.

But can't the same sentiment be had of damn near anything?  Athletes, actors, politicians, musicians... any form of greatness.  Will anyone truly appreciate the greatness Gretzky/Orr/Lemieux that didn't experience it live?  Would the Beatles be as iconic/legendary as they were if they came to America in the 2010s, instead of the 1960s?

(or insert any legendary names in any given discipline).

Yeah...I see your point. I really do. That's just my 'controversial opinion' 

I don't know the exact reason why Carson's popularity and lore rubs me the wrong way, but it does.

[hefdaddy42]

Carson was the best ever at what he did.  Not everyone can do what he did.

The fact that he made it look so easy holds a clue as to how good he was at it.

My favorite late night person was Letterman.  And he will tell you that the best to ever do it was Carson.

[pg1067]

I think Friends also suffered a bit from flanderization where in the first few seasons the characters had their quirks but felt somewhat like real people but as the show went on the characters became more and more defined by that one quirk. With that said on my last rewatch I think I preferred the last 5 seasons over the first 5 because it felt less realistic and that somehow made it more entertaining to me. The first few seasons felt like a more legit attempt at serious elements sprinkled in but in the later seasons the different situations they end up in were like saturday morning cartoon show.

I do like how the writers covered up Lisa Kudrow being pregnant, although a bit odd.

They "covered up" her being pregnant by having her character get pregnant.  What's odd about that?

David Tennant was my least favorite Doctor and his send off special The End of Time I think is one of the worst episodes of the series new and old. Funny thing is I love David Tennant as an actor and He does have some fantastic episodes like Midnight. I just really dislike a lot of what RTD did with the character. It's also why the Simm Master is my least favorite Master

Also I rank Colin Baker above Tom Baker, Just barely but I do. Colins work with Big Finish is just amazing.

My least favorite doctor was the one I had as a kid.  Mean old coot.  Least favorite master was the one from In the Presence of Enemies.  Seriously, huh?

[Stadler]

I think Friends also suffered a bit from flanderization where in the first few seasons the characters had their quirks but felt somewhat like real people but as the show went on the characters became more and more defined by that one quirk. With that said on my last rewatch I think I preferred the last 5 seasons over the first 5 because it felt less realistic and that somehow made it more entertaining to me. The first few seasons felt like a more legit attempt at serious elements sprinkled in but in the later seasons the different situations they end up in were like saturday morning cartoon show.

I hate when it goes the other way; a character has very distinct, sharp characteristics, and over time they get rubbed down and in typical sitcom fashion, everyone ends as caring, good people.  Sheldon Cooper is the best example of this, but there are countless examples. Archie Bunker, Hawkeye Pierce (and Klinger), Sam Malone, Fonzie...

[Stadler]

Gary, you make me sad.   I am with TAC (always painful words to type )...Johnny Carson was awesome.  When it comes to late night TV, for me Carson and Letterman are 1a and 1b, and with the exception of Conan, who I might put as a distant 3rd, none of the current crop comes close to touching either.  Leno was funny, but was a back-stabbing scumbag, so he gets docked points for that.

Alright....alright. I get what Chad, you and Tim are saying. Sure, You don't make it that long without some sort of talent. I personally just don't think he was 'that' talented. He was in the right place at the right time IN the right time in history. Near zero competition.....Hollywood was an old white boys club.....and what media that was around heavily pimped him and crafted the lore that we know today.

Not to take sides here, but... taking sides, Carson was all he was advertised.  If you go back and look at some of the "Best Of..." tapes, sure there was some stuff that was dated, of the time, and he had a style that isn't really like what we're used to today ("N***a, please, m*****f******, I'm like "bitch, tell me about it")  But I know that I rarely watch any late night since Letterman retired.  I laughed uncontrollably at Carson, frequently.  I laughed uncontrollably at Letterman, occassionally.  I laugh hard at Conan a fair amount of time.  I chuckle at Fallon (he's too much an ass-kisser for me, though he is multi-talented), I chuckle at Kimmel (I'm not in the in-club so some of the snark is lost on me), I NEVER laugh at Colbert (I just don't get it, and that's BEFORE the obnoxious politics) and I NEVER laugh at Seth Meyers (he was tolerable on SNL, but the arrogant, snarky white guy is not really my thing, and that BEFORE the obnoxious politics too.)

[Stadler]

Gary, you make me sad.   I am with TAC (always painful words to type )...Johnny Carson was awesome.  When it comes to late night TV, for me Carson and Letterman are 1a and 1b, and with the exception of Conan, who I might put as a distant 3rd, none of the current crop comes close to touching either.  Leno was funny, but was a back-stabbing scumbag, so he gets docked points for that.

Alright....alright. I get what Chad, you and Tim are saying. Sure, You don't make it that long without some sort of talent. I personally just don't think he was 'that' talented. He was in the right place at the right time IN the right time in history. Near zero competition.....Hollywood was an old white boys club.....and what media that was around heavily pimped him and crafted the lore that we know today.

But can't the same sentiment be had of damn near anything?  Athletes, actors, politicians, musicians... any form of greatness.  Will anyone truly appreciate the greatness Gretzky/Orr/Lemieux that didn't experience it live?  Would the Beatles be as iconic/legendary as they were if they came to America in the 2010s, instead of the 1960s?

(or insert any legendary names in any given discipline).

That's a great, great analogy, by the way.  I was lucky enough to see Gretsky twice live in person, and once was while working as a security guard at the Hartford Civic Center.  I was positioned at the base of the staircase to the 300 level seats, and right behind the goal.  So I had a full view of the rink, and watching him play off the puck made it clear to me that he WAS the greatest.  Being in Hartford I saw some greats, including Gordie Howe, but Gretsky was a step above.  I can't tell you how many times I thought "what is he doing?" and seconds later he was standing alone with the puck and the rest of the Whalers were looking over their shoulder wondering WTF just happened.   I get that sense with Carson too. 

[pg1067]

the . . . the Whalers were looking over their shoulder wondering WTF just happened.

Not an uncommon occurrence if I recall correctly.

Gretzky's time with the Kings was great, and I can only imagine what it must have been like watching him in those early years in Edmonton (I didn't start following hockey until a couple years after the trade).

[Stadler]

the . . . the Whalers were looking over their shoulder wondering WTF just happened.

Not an uncommon occurrence if I recall correctly.

Gretzky's time with the Kings was great, and I can only imagine what it must have been like watching him in those early years in Edmonton (I didn't start following hockey until a couple years after the trade).

Your recollection is stellar!