DREAM THEATER "POSSIBLY" Recording Show On 'SFAM' 20th-Anniversary Tour

[The Curious Orange]

I sort of get why they didn't record a live DVD for the TA tour, but if they were going to release another DVD it surely would have been for the I&W&Beyond tour. We came so close to getting that Budokan show...
So basically, I'll believe it when I see it. They may well film something, but whether they actually release it or not, that's another question.

[Chino]

It kind of sucks that DT seems to have gotten away from the fan/bootleg releases. I'd pay $4.99 for a live recording of the Astonishing that was captured by a single GoPro and whatever audio went into the soundboard.

[Setlist Scotty]

why release OiaL as is?  His vocals on much of that are pretty rough. 

While the Paris show may not be his greatest performance, I wouldn't say that his vocals are terrible. Why not redo them? No idea. Perhaps it was a reaction to their last 2 live releases (LatM and ACoS) where many if not all the vocals were redone in the studio. If I'm not mistaken, they did get a bit of flack for the re-recorded vocals on ACoS since there were bootleg recordings of the show that were circulating and it was obvious they were redone.
 
 

Sidebar: I wish DT had done a mini-tour of shows like the Rotterdam one on that release.  They have more than enough songs that would work in that kind of atmosphere and it would be so cool.  Maybe it wouldn't appeal to the casual fan, but us diehards would love it.

Actually they did in December 1998. It was only 5 shows in the New England area, but I would call that a mini-tour. As for them doing it again, it's possible, but I wouldn't hold my breath. I brought up that topic in an interview with MP in 2009 and here's what he said:

I saw the thread wondering if we would ever do a tour like that again. Even for those shows, for those of you around back then when we did them, they were met with skepticism. Now a lot of people can see the DVD and say that was cool and awesome. But I remember at those shows having to take the mic and say “look – if you came for Pull Me Under and Metropolis, leave now – we’re not doing them.” And I remember a lot of people bitching and moaning “I went and saw Dream Theater and all they did was sit there and play all these songs I never heard before.” So yeah, the hardcore fans wanna hear the B-sides like Where Are You Now and covers like Goodbye Yellow Brick Road, but the majority of fans coming to see Dream Theater weren’t digging it. They went away kind of disappointed. So we can never win. *laughs*

With JP being far more sensitive to audience reactions and being quick to drop songs if the audience doesn't seem that into them (as was the case with TGD, DLPM and TLF), I'd say it's even less likely for such a tour to happen than if MP was still in the band.
 
 

I then remember the LA'98 show being released on Ytsejam, and I thought, great. These should have much better vocals. Nope. Just as bad. Knowing the MP was in charge of those releases, that was my first inkling that all was not well between MP and JLB. My first thought was, there's no way James could be happy about this release.

With regards to that LA show, keep in mind that the recording came from his 2-track DAT. It wasn't a multi-track recording where JL's vocals could've been replaced.
 
 

I assume they don’t do it for the same reason pretty much no other bands do, it’s not worth the hassle. I know they implied that it would carry on but that’s easy to say, I never expected it to continue especially when they said JLB was going to run it. In the case of this particular show for Japanese tv, if James sounds awful on it, I’d rather they didn’t release it. Why release a poor quality product which embarrasses your lead singer?

But the "hassle" is already taken care of.  It's fully produced, both visually and aurally, and all it needs is some pretty packaging.

Exactly. Even the website to sell it is fully established. So the remaining work to put it into the fans' hands would take far less time and effort than it took for L@LP or BtFW.

[Peter Mc]

I was talking about continuing the official bootlegs in general when I said most other bands don’t bother as its not worth the hassle. As I said, for this one specifically, which is already in the can, by all accounts (I haven’t seen it myself) JLB does not sound good at all and, if that’s the case, they are correct not to release it in my opinion. No need to release a substandard product even if it is just through the official bootlegs. You’re still asking fans to spend money on it and throwing your singer under the bus at the same time.

[EPIC Outro]

I have not seen Budokan 2017, but I can't imagine it is as bad as some folks claim. Surely there have to be some tracks on it that sound really good?

[Max Kuehnau]

I have not seen Budokan 2017, but I can't imagine it is as bad as some folks claim. Surely there have to be some tracks on it that sound really good?

most of them do IMHO.

[KevShmev]

Sidebar: I wish DT had done a mini-tour of shows like the Rotterdam one on that release.  They have more than enough songs that would work in that kind of atmosphere and it would be so cool.  Maybe it wouldn't appeal to the casual fan, but us diehards would love it.

Actually they did in December 1998. It was only 5 shows in the New England area, but I would call that a mini-tour. As for them doing it again, it's possible, but I wouldn't hold my breath. I brought up that topic in an interview with MP in 2009 and here's what he said:

I saw the thread wondering if we would ever do a tour like that again. Even for those shows, for those of you around back then when we did them, they were met with skepticism. Now a lot of people can see the DVD and say that was cool and awesome. But I remember at those shows having to take the mic and say “look – if you came for Pull Me Under and Metropolis, leave now – we’re not doing them.” And I remember a lot of people bitching and moaning “I went and saw Dream Theater and all they did was sit there and play all these songs I never heard before.” So yeah, the hardcore fans wanna hear the B-sides like Where Are You Now and covers like Goodbye Yellow Brick Road, but the majority of fans coming to see Dream Theater weren’t digging it. They went away kind of disappointed. So we can never win. *laughs*

With JP being far more sensitive to audience reactions and being quick to drop songs if the audience doesn't seem that into them (as was the case with TGD, DLPM and TLF), I'd say it's even less likely for such a tour to happen than if MP was still in the band.

Okay then, maybe do one of those 3-4 song things in the middle of the second set where they all come to the front of the stage and play a few laid back tunes, maybe even a new arrangement of a classic to put a different spin on it. I can't imagine most fans wouldn't like that as a nice little thing in the middle of a set rather than it being the entire show.

[Setlist Scotty]

Okay then, maybe do one of those 3-4 song things in the middle of the second set where they all come to the front of the stage and play a few laid back tunes, maybe even a new arrangement of a classic to put a different spin on it. I can't imagine most fans wouldn't like that as a nice little thing in the middle of a set rather than it being the entire show.

Oh I fully agree with that. And I think had MP remained in the band, that would've happened. When I brought the topic up in that interview, it wasn't about doing a full tour of shows like that, but rather doing a mini-set of songs in that style/setting on an Evening With tour as a means of catching their breath, since he had been talking about how exhausting those shows could be and how he envisioned doing the whole 12 Step Suite as a second set on the tour, which obviously would've been challenging to play, too.

Even on the Dramatic tour, we kinda got a little bit of that, altho only 2 songs, when they did The Silent Man/Beneath the Surface or Wait For Sleep/Far From Heaven.

[cramx3]

Okay then, maybe do one of those 3-4 song things in the middle of the second set where they all come to the front of the stage and play a few laid back tunes, maybe even a new arrangement of a classic to put a different spin on it. I can't imagine most fans wouldn't like that as a nice little thing in the middle of a set rather than it being the entire show.

Oh I fully agree with that. And I think had MP remained in the band, that would've happened. When I brought the topic up in that interview, it wasn't about doing a full tour of shows like that, but rather doing a mini-set of songs in that style/setting on an Evening With tour as a means of catching their breath, since he had been talking about how exhausting those shows could be and how he envisioned doing the whole 12 Step Suite as a second set on the tour, which obviously would've been challenging to play, too.

Even on the Dramatic tour, we kinda got a little bit of that, altho only 2 songs, when they did The Silent Man/Beneath the Surface or Wait For Sleep/Far From Heaven.

Yea, that tour had the rotation for the slow part which was really nice.  I do hope they don't do the cliche now which is have the side stage and do a small acoustic set.  I like moreso what they did for that tour, two songs together in a sit down setting and rotate those songs. 

[Architeuthis]

I have not seen Budokan 2017, but I can't imagine it is as bad as some folks claim. Surely there have to be some tracks on it that sound really good?

I just watched it again on dvd last night. It's  a pretty spectacular show. James isn't as bad as some will say, he actually has some pretty good shining moments.   However I was a bit buzzed while I watched it so I wasn't watching it to be critical.  It may not be a perfect performance, but it's such an awesome in your face rock show!   

[CrimsonSunrise]

I have not seen Budokan 2017, but I can't imagine it is as bad as some folks claim. Surely there have to be some tracks on it that sound really good?

I just watched it again on dvd last night. It's  a pretty spectacular show. James isn't as bad as some will say, he actually has some pretty good shining moments.   However I was a bit buzzed while I watched it so I wasn't watching it to be critical.  It may not be a perfect performance, but it's such an awesome in your face rock show!   

I'd love to see this show.  Someone posted a link earlier but when I hit it all I get is undecipherable Japanese with no clear concert link that I can discern.

[Architeuthis]

I have not seen Budokan 2017, but I can't imagine it is as bad as some folks claim. Surely there have to be some tracks on it that sound really good?

I just watched it again on dvd last night. It's  a pretty spectacular show. James isn't as bad as some will say, he actually has some pretty good shining moments.   However I was a bit buzzed while I watched it so I wasn't watching it to be critical.  It may not be a perfect performance, but it's such an awesome in your face rock show!   

I'd love to see this show.  Someone posted a link earlier but when I hit it all I get is undecipherable Japanese with no clear concert link that I can discern.

Just sent you a PM.

[PMA]

I have not seen Budokan 2017, but I can't imagine it is as bad as some folks claim. Surely there have to be some tracks on it that sound really good?

I just watched it again on dvd last night. It's  a pretty spectacular show. James isn't as bad as some will say, he actually has some pretty good shining moments.   However I was a bit buzzed while I watched it so I wasn't watching it to be critical.  It may not be a perfect performance, but it's such an awesome in your face rock show!   

I'd love to see this show.  Someone posted a link earlier but when I hit it all I get is undecipherable Japanese with no clear concert link that I can discern.

Here's the link.  https://www.bilibili.com/video/av25975244/

Even with all the Japanese, all the song titles are in the upper right corner in English (or below the video depending on the setting).

[Rob24]

To be honest, James is really bad here, there's no way talking around that. It's pretty blatant.

[nikatapi]

To be honest, James is really bad here, there's no way talking around that. It's pretty blatant.

Yeah unfortunately it's a very mediocre performance.

[cramx3]

Pretty sure you guys shouldn't be sharing any links of that show.  I think it's off limits by the bands request in case they decide to release it when it was discussed more heavily in another thread awhile ago.

[PetFish]

To be honest, James is really bad here, there's no way talking around that. It's pretty blatant.

Yeah unfortunately it's a very mediocre performance.

Are you guys saying this cuz James didn't try and hit the high notes and held back in order to not blow them up and destroy them and it's not that he had a really bad night but that you're more disappointed that he didn't go for it and are just saying he was bad?

I'm happy that he changed this in order to sing within his current abilities.  Even so, there were a few misses, but nothing major, and if he *had* tried to sing like it's 1993 then absolutely it would have been bad... like in the OIaLT release.  I can totally agree most of that was tough to listen to.

But as for Back to Budokan... I've ripped the audio and listened to just that and I'm happy with it and also that there's no way they'd hold this back from an official release based just on James' performance.  Not a chance.  There's probably many other reasons for it not being released.

Also, for the video, THIS IS HOW YOU DO SPLIT-SCREENS!  There's even times when JP gets 3 of his own screens to see his fingers:  wide to see both, tight on right hand, tight on left hand.  So awesome.  Take notes, future directors.

[nikatapi]

To be honest, James is really bad here, there's no way talking around that. It's pretty blatant.

Yeah unfortunately it's a very mediocre performance.

Are you guys saying this cuz James didn't try and hit the high notes and held back in order to not blow them up and destroy them and it's not that he had a really bad night but that you're more disappointed that he didn't go for it and are just saying he was bad?

I'm happy that he changed this in order to sing within his current abilities.  Even so, there were a few misses, but nothing major, and if he *had* tried to sing like it's 1993 then absolutely it would have been bad... like in the OIaLT release.  I can totally agree most of that was tough to listen to.

But as for Back to Budokan... I've ripped the audio and listened to just that and I'm happy with it and also that there's no way they'd hold this back from an official release based just on James' performance.  Not a chance.  There's probably many other reasons for it not being released.

Also, for the video, THIS IS HOW YOU DO SPLIT-SCREENS!  There's even times when JP gets 3 of his own screens to see his fingers:  wide to see both, tight on right hand, tight on left hand.  So awesome.  Take notes, future directors.

It's not a matter of hitting the notes. The videos are obviously autotuned / melodyned to hell, and despite the changes in melodies James still sounds flat and tired.
Also, the way he sings these days feels like he's abandoned every effort to enunciate, and just tries to get the notes right.

I love James' voice, but i think we need to be objective and this performance (as was the case in a big portion of the Astonishing tour and I&W anniversary tour) is if not bad, at most super mediocre.

[MoraWintersoul]

Also, the way he sings these days feels like he's abandoned every effort to enunciate, and just tries to get the notes right.

I love James' voice, but i think we need to be objective and this performance (as was the case in a big portion of the Astonishing tour and I&W anniversary tour) is if not bad, at most super mediocre.

As someone who doesn't care about the notes as much as feel/emotion, I feel the same. His live singing lately is serviceable. It would be better if notes weren't the focus.

[The Walrus]

Also, the way he sings these days feels like he's abandoned every effort to enunciate, and just tries to get the notes right.

I love James' voice, but i think we need to be objective and this performance (as was the case in a big portion of the Astonishing tour and I&W anniversary tour) is if not bad, at most super mediocre.

As someone who doesn't care about the notes as much as feel/emotion, I feel the same. His live singing lately is serviceable. It would be better if notes weren't the focus.

Been saying this for a long time and I still have friends who refuse to even acknowledge this. I love James. Please, please, please, stop playing the early 90s material except for the soft stuff. It's just not fair for him these days.

[the_silent_man]

I don't think it's realistic to ask a band to stop playing what a lot of people regard as their strongest material (I@W, Awake). Yes, cut down on it, but stuff like PMU, Metropolis, Learning to Live, Caught in a Web, The Mirror etc are gonna be craved by fans until they break up.

[The Walrus]

I think that's true, but when you weigh "performance" vs. "including old songs as obligation" then I don't know if that's enough justification to include them. When James goes anywhere near the higher notes he completely loses enunciation, and he struggled just to maintain an altered lower melody. Listen to that Surrounded performance. It's not fair to his voice to be singing those songs even if they are fan favorites. They have over a dozen albums of material to pick from, surely there's other fan favorites that can replace the ones we've heard for almost 30 years now. Just my two cents, I want to see them play to James's strengths to make the overall live show better.

[gzarruk]

I think that's true, but when you weigh "performance" vs. "including old songs as obligation" then I don't know if that's enough justification to include them. When James goes anywhere near the higher notes he completely loses enunciation, and he struggled just to maintain an altered lower melody. Listen to that Surrounded performance. It's not fair to his voice to be singing those songs even if they are fan favorites. They have over a dozen albums of material to pick from, surely there's other fan favorites that can replace the ones we've heard for almost 30 years now. Just my two cents, I want to see them play to James's strengths to make the overall live show better.

Completely agree with this. Their catalog is big enough to never play some of the older, most challenging songs for James again.

[cramx3]

Well it does seem like they are moving in that direction with their latest set and I always felt that I&W tour was kind of the end of any consistency of playing those songs besides PMU and Metropolis.  I pretty much agree that these songs should only be a couple in a full set to make it easier for JLB. They have plenty of other music to fill out an awesome setlist IMO without having to play the old stuff so much.

[Lethean]

I'm going to agree that they shouldn't play a lot of the old stuff at each show night after night.  If there's a one off event or something cool they want to do in the future, I don't necessarily think it should be off the table, but having to sing a lot of I&W songs night after night would probably not be the best for James' voice.  But I would disagree that the idea that they should never play any of the old songs.  I saw quite a few of the shows on the latest tour, and while I have my own reasons for wishing they'd chosen something other than Pull Me Under, James' performance isn't one of them.  IMO, and I know people disagree, but the live show should be about the live experience.  I really just don't think the majority of people walked away from those shows thinking DT shouldn't have played PMU because of James' enunciation.  Watching a live performance on a recording is a different experience.  But if the people who are actually at the shows enjoy it, then I see no reason they shouldn't keep going.  Again, I'd personally like to see PMU be given a vacation for the next time around, and I do think they should focus on material that's not quite as high as a lot of the I&W stuff, but I don't think they need to avoid playing every one of those songs from now on.

[The Walrus]

In all honesty though, even in person and being in the moment, through the magic of experiencing I&W live, he still did not sound good singing those. Listening to older dudes trying to squeeze out vocal lines that a 20 year old would struggle with is just not fun... well, to me anyway

[cramx3]

In all honesty though, even in person and being in the moment, through the magic of experiencing I&W live, he still did not sound good singing those. Listening to older dudes trying to squeeze out vocal lines that a 20 year old would struggle with is just not fun... turning the smooth high note from Take The Time into a scream is no bueno.

Of the three times I saw the I&W tour, I really didn't leave thinking JLB sucked at any of them.  However my video footage showed the mistakes I couldn't pick up with my own ears.  Looking back on it now, JLB's performance was supbar at specifically the Dallas (very last show of the tour) show but I really didn't leave thinking that.  However, when I compare to the current tour, not only did I think JLB sounded good at the moment, he also sounds pretty good upon video review.  He's not perfect but that set seemed so much better for his current voice.  I really can't think of a time where at the theater watching DT that I thought JLB's vocals were not pleasant is essentially my point.

[The Walrus]

I haven't seen them on the latest tour but the set seems better tailored for his voice now for sure.

[cramx3]

I haven't seen them on the latest tour but the set seems better tailored for his voice now for sure.

Yea, and I think that's kind of both our points.  Drop the older harder material for him to sing and now he sounds much better.  I think that's the proof too.  Honestly, the set 1 with the newer material was fantastic.  I think I could really enjoy 3 hours of only after SFAM material personally.  That's even with I&W and Awake as my two favorite DT albums.  Their career catalog is just so strong they could only focus on MM releases too and I could be very happy.

[Lethean]

I would totally be fine with sets that focus on MM material, or later material in general, etc.  Especially the new album since we still have half of the songs to hear.

On the other hand, I was totally fine with James changing a high note or two to more of a scream.  Learning to Live sounded particularly cool.

[ytserush]

It kind of sucks that DT seems to have gotten away from the fan/bootleg releases. I'd pay $4.99 for a live recording of the Astonishing that was captured by a single GoPro and whatever audio went into the soundboard.

I'd pay more than that.