Is "We Built This City" by Starship a BAD song?

[WildRanger]

This song is widely considered to be one of the worst 80's hits.

What would you say? Is this song that bad to you or not? How would you rate it?

[The Walrus]

It's not a bad song, it's a very annoying song. But the melodies aren't bad. So I picked no.

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

I'm not sure how to answer this. Sometimes I like the song, sometimes I like it ironically, and sometimes I hate the song. It is a dumb song....but at the same time it's so cheesy that it's good....

[KevShmev]

I think the backlash from this song came from that magazine a few years ago that called it the worst song ever or something like that.  That is when many really started hating on it.  I think had it been done by an unknown band, it wouldn't get as much hate either, but because Starship was once Jefferson Airplane, loosely speaking, many take the "how did a band that good end up doing a song like this?" stance.

It's really not a bad song.  Okay, the lyrics are pretty hokey, and the sound and production is buried in that 80's sound that annoys many, but the melodies are strong.  I have to be in the right mood for it, pretty much when playing an 80's playlist on shuffle, but it's not a bad song.

[Dave_Manchester]

Fun 80s cheese, I like it when I hear it (which is almost never these days).

[Elite]

No song is ‘bad’

[millahh]

It's really, really bad, and I've thought that for multiple decades...but it's still not as bad as it's sibling, "Nothing's gonna stop us now"...  I threw up in my mouth a little just thinking about it.

[bl5150]

I quite liked it when it came out but I was 10yo.  Not so much these days 

[Crow]

Yes, but only because all music is objectively bad and starship is not an exception

[Zydar]

Nope.

[Cool Chris]

I remember liking it back in the naivete of my youth in the 80s. It's standard 80s pop fare, as Kev said, it is weighted down by being done by a band whose established roots aren't grounded in 80s pop.

[a51502112]

When it's accompanied by the video... yes it is.

[bosk1]

I think the backlash from this song came from that magazine a few years ago that called it the worst song ever or something like that.  That is when many really started hating on it.  I think had it been done by an unknown band, it wouldn't get as much hate either, but because Starship was once Jefferson Airplane, loosely speaking, many take the "how did a band that good end up doing a song like this?" stance.

It's really not a bad song.  Okay, the lyrics are pretty hokey, and the sound and production is buried in that 80's sound that annoys many, but the melodies are strong.  I have to be in the right mood for it, pretty much when playing an 80's playlist on shuffle, but it's not a bad song.

Yeah, but even though it got a ton of airplay and brought in a lot of new fans on the bandwagon, a lot of the old fans were pissed about this direction.

[King Postwhore]

I saw them play it live opening for Night Ranger. It's a fun tune.  They played it as an outro agsin at the end of their set which was weird.

[pg1067]

This song is widely considered to be one of the worst 80's hits.

What would you say? Is this song that bad to you or not? How would you rate it?

It's not good, but I don't know that I'd go as far as to call it "bad."  There's a lot of stuff from the 80s that was much worse (pretty much everything Guns n Roses ever released, for example).

I don't remember who published the article, but some prominent music publication proclaimed it the worst song ever (or something like that), and it just spiraled from there.

[Stadler]

I think the backlash from this song came from that magazine a few years ago that called it the worst song ever or something like that.  That is when many really started hating on it.  I think had it been done by an unknown band, it wouldn't get as much hate either, but because Starship was once Jefferson Airplane, loosely speaking, many take the "how did a band that good end up doing a song like this?" stance.

It's really not a bad song.  Okay, the lyrics are pretty hokey, and the sound and production is buried in that 80's sound that annoys many, but the melodies are strong.  I have to be in the right mood for it, pretty much when playing an 80's playlist on shuffle, but it's not a bad song.

Yeah, but even though it got a ton of airplay and brought in a lot of new fans on the bandwagon, a lot of the old fans were pissed about this direction.

I think it's partly this, partly the magazine article, and just our tendency to love examples.  It's actually a good lyric (by Bernie Taupin) and a rather ironic one given the song's legacy.

"Sussudio" and Phil Collins are an example of this as well.   I don't think people realize the career he's had, solo and as a band member, and yet... he's openly and regularly mocked as somehow "all that's wrong with the 80's".     

[Dublagent66]

I voted No.  However, if the thread title said "good", my vote would still be No.

[bosk1]

I think the backlash from this song came from that magazine a few years ago that called it the worst song ever or something like that.  That is when many really started hating on it.  I think had it been done by an unknown band, it wouldn't get as much hate either, but because Starship was once Jefferson Airplane, loosely speaking, many take the "how did a band that good end up doing a song like this?" stance.

It's really not a bad song.  Okay, the lyrics are pretty hokey, and the sound and production is buried in that 80's sound that annoys many, but the melodies are strong.  I have to be in the right mood for it, pretty much when playing an 80's playlist on shuffle, but it's not a bad song.

Yeah, but even though it got a ton of airplay and brought in a lot of new fans on the bandwagon, a lot of the old fans were pissed about this direction.

I think it's partly this, partly the magazine article, and just our tendency to love examples.  It's actually a good lyric (by Bernie Taupin) and a rather ironic one given the song's legacy.

"Sussudio" and Phil Collins are an example of this as well.   I don't think people realize the career he's had, solo and as a band member, and yet... he's openly and regularly mocked as somehow "all that's wrong with the 80's".     

I have no idea what article you are talking about.  And I don't really recall Phil Collins being mocked as "all that's wrong with the '80s."  [you put your apostrophe in the wrong place, by the way]  Unless I'm just not recalling, I mostly only ever remember him being talked about as being pretty highly respected.

[pg1067]

"Sussudio" and Phil Collins are an example of this as well.   I don't think people realize the career he's had, solo and as a band member, and yet... he's openly and regularly mocked as somehow "all that's wrong with the 80's".     

I have never once heard of Phil Collins being mocked as "all that's wrong with the 80's" or anything like that.  Just about anyone I've ever discussed him with has expressed admiration for his solo work, and I'm typically the guy who has to point out his work with Genesis and/or his proficiency as a drummer.

[TAC]

There are so many worse songs than We Built This City.

[jammindude]

It is a wart on the ass of music that tarnishes Bernie Taupin's legacy.   

[Cool Chris]

Since it was brought up (I had no idea he wrote the lyrics to this song, and I know this isn't the 'Controversial Opinions' thread) I always thought that for all the amazing music Elton John wrote, Bernie Taupin's lyrics are often mediocre at best, and are the worst part of many of his songs. I don't get this reverence for his writing.

[jcmoorehead]

"Sussudio" and Phil Collins are an example of this as well.   I don't think people realize the career he's had, solo and as a band member, and yet... he's openly and regularly mocked as somehow "all that's wrong with the 80's".     

I have never once heard of Phil Collins being mocked as "all that's wrong with the 80's" or anything like that.  Just about anyone I've ever discussed him with has expressed admiration for his solo work, and I'm typically the guy who has to point out his work with Genesis and/or his proficiency as a drummer.

Possibly a UK thing, but there was a time when Phil was a little bit of a punching bag for the press. It was a variety of things really, they would go after his private life (Stories about divorcing his wife via fax), the content of his songs (Another Day In Paradise was mocked, despite him actually doing good work for charity) and even the fact that he was everywhere in the 80s producing and making music (Can't be because he was actually good at what he did?)

He does cover it in his book (Which is a great read), and dismantles some of the myths about it all.

---

As far as the song by Starship goes, it's certainly cheesy but it's not the worst thing ever. I wouldn't really reach for it by choice, but if it came on I wouldn't skip it either.

[The Curious Orange]

I LOVE Jefferson Airplane and Jefferson Starship (both the 70s Marty Balin fronted line-up, the 80s Mickey Thomas fronted line-up, and Paul Kantner's reunion line-ups - Cathy Richardson is just about the greatest fronts-person ever, as anyone who's seen her bash out Hyperdrive will testify), but I don't know what they were thinking with Starship.

Actually I do - survival. The music industry was a very different place in the 80s, and band had to adapt or die. Starship did it very well, We Built this City and Nothing's Gonna Stop Us Now were the biggest hits of their 30-year career.

WBTC is a really good POP song. It's annoying and cheesy and dated, everything an 80s pop song should be. Everyone knows the song, everyone can sing along.

All together now - "Marconi plays the mamba, listen to the radio..."

[Stadler]

I think the backlash from this song came from that magazine a few years ago that called it the worst song ever or something like that.  That is when many really started hating on it.  I think had it been done by an unknown band, it wouldn't get as much hate either, but because Starship was once Jefferson Airplane, loosely speaking, many take the "how did a band that good end up doing a song like this?" stance.

It's really not a bad song.  Okay, the lyrics are pretty hokey, and the sound and production is buried in that 80's sound that annoys many, but the melodies are strong.  I have to be in the right mood for it, pretty much when playing an 80's playlist on shuffle, but it's not a bad song.

Yeah, but even though it got a ton of airplay and brought in a lot of new fans on the bandwagon, a lot of the old fans were pissed about this direction.

I think it's partly this, partly the magazine article, and just our tendency to love examples.  It's actually a good lyric (by Bernie Taupin) and a rather ironic one given the song's legacy.

"Sussudio" and Phil Collins are an example of this as well.   I don't think people realize the career he's had, solo and as a band member, and yet... he's openly and regularly mocked as somehow "all that's wrong with the 80's".     

I have no idea what article you are talking about.  And I don't really recall Phil Collins being mocked as "all that's wrong with the '80s."  [you put your apostrophe in the wrong place, by the way]  Unless I'm just not recalling, I mostly only ever remember him being talked about as being pretty highly respected.

The article is the famous one that named "We Built This City" as the worst song of all time.  Wait... this isn't the article but it talks about it:  https://www.gq.com/story/oral-history-we-built-this-city-worst-song-of-all-time

And with deep respect to both of you - Bosk and PG - that may be the case here on a prog rock forum, but there was a DEEP Phil Collins backlash for a number of years, and still (to some) is in play.   Why else is not one of the only three men to have sold 100 million records solo and with a band not in the Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame?   Even PHIL acknowledged this (as did other artists; Bowie called his 80's albums, in a dismissive way, "his Phil Collins years", and Bob Plant had some choice words as well) noting that while transferring his archive to digital he found himself "omnipresent" and "annoying".  Read the "Criticism and Praise" section of his wiki article.  There was even an article in the late 2010's titled "Is it time we all stopped hating Phil Collins?"

[Stadler]

Since it was brought up (I had no idea he wrote the lyrics to this song, and I know this isn't the 'Controversial Opinions' thread) I always thought that for all the amazing music Elton John wrote, Bernie Taupin's lyrics are often mediocre at best, and are the worst part of many of his songs. I don't get this reverence for his writing.

My controversial opinion:  I think Grace Slick is beautiful in that video.   I love that look. 

[jcmoorehead]

And with deep respect to both of you - Bosk and PG - that may be the case here on a prog rock forum, but there was a DEEP Phil Collins backlash for a number of years, and still (to some) is in play.   Why else is not one of the only three men to have sold 100 million records solo and with a band not in the Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame?   Even PHIL acknowledged this (as did other artists; Bowie called his 80's albums, in a dismissive way, "his Phil Collins years", and Bob Plant had some choice words as well) noting that while transferring his archive to digital he found himself "omnipresent" and "annoying".  Read the "Criticism and Praise" section of his wiki article.  There was even an article in the late 2010's titled "Is it time we all stopped hating Phil Collins?"

There is also the fact that people blame him for changing the direction of Genesis after Gabriel left. I even knew one person who said Phil was the reason Peter left and was eyeing up Peter's spot from the beginning.

The guy has had a lot of unfair negative press. It's actually sort of pathetic to see the vitriol hurled at him for no reason.

[pg1067]

And with deep respect to both of you - Bosk and PG - that may be the case here on a prog rock forum, but there was a DEEP Phil Collins backlash for a number of years, and still (to some) is in play.   Why else is not one of the only three men to have sold 100 million records solo and with a band not in the Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame?   Even PHIL acknowledged this (as did other artists; Bowie called his 80's albums, in a dismissive way, "his Phil Collins years", and Bob Plant had some choice words as well) noting that while transferring his archive to digital he found himself "omnipresent" and "annoying".  Read the "Criticism and Praise" section of his wiki article.  There was even an article in the late 2010's titled "Is it time we all stopped hating Phil Collins?"

There's no question that, in the span of 15 years, Phil went from iconic prog rock drummer to a pop-for-the-masses singer, but that was really a continuation of what happened to Genesis in the 80s (something about which I believe you and I have very different opinions).  Nonetheless, it remains true that I've never heard of any significant backlash against Phil, and certainly nothing rising to the level of "he represents everything that was wrong with the 80s."  I enjoyed some of his pop stuff (much more than I enjoyed self-titled and Invisible Touch era Genesis), and I even bought his Serious Hits Live album (although I can't remember the last time I spun it).  However, for me, his role (whatever it may have been) in the direction Genesis took after Abacab is a much bigger black mark than anything else, but that's not a "popular" opinion, because the "average music fan" has little or no awareness of pre-Abacab Genesis.

As far as the original topic of the thread, I find it interesting that some of the backlash for WBTC was based on the connection to Jefferson Airplane given that Grace Slick was the only person to perform on WBTC that had any connection to JA.

[Stadler]

And with deep respect to both of you - Bosk and PG - that may be the case here on a prog rock forum, but there was a DEEP Phil Collins backlash for a number of years, and still (to some) is in play.   Why else is not one of the only three men to have sold 100 million records solo and with a band not in the Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame?   Even PHIL acknowledged this (as did other artists; Bowie called his 80's albums, in a dismissive way, "his Phil Collins years", and Bob Plant had some choice words as well) noting that while transferring his archive to digital he found himself "omnipresent" and "annoying".  Read the "Criticism and Praise" section of his wiki article.  There was even an article in the late 2010's titled "Is it time we all stopped hating Phil Collins?"

There's no question that, in the span of 15 years, Phil went from iconic prog rock drummer to a pop-for-the-masses singer, but that was really a continuation of what happened to Genesis in the 80s (something about which I believe you and I have very different opinions).  Nonetheless, it remains true that I've never heard of any significant backlash against Phil, and certainly nothing rising to the level of "he represents everything that was wrong with the 80s."  I enjoyed some of his pop stuff (much more than I enjoyed self-titled and Invisible Touch era Genesis), and I even bought his Serious Hits Live album (although I can't remember the last time I spun it).  However, for me, his role (whatever it may have been) in the direction Genesis took after Abacab is a much bigger black mark than anything else, but that's not a "popular" opinion, because the "average music fan" has little or no awareness of pre-Abacab Genesis.

And yet, all three members put much more emphasis on the change coming from Tony, not Phil.

Phil:  Three hit solo albums, iconic solo single ("In The Air Tonight")
Mike:  The Living Years, Silent Running, All I Need Is A Miracle
Tony:  <chirp chirp>

Tony rues to this day that he didn't select "In The Air Tonight" when Phil offered up three or four songs for Duke (though Phil has also said "it wasn't on offer", so there's that).

And Peter himself hasn't done anything even remotely as proggy as his Genesis material; his change - from "The Lamb..." to "Solsbury Hill" was FAR more dramatic than the nine year arc from "The Lamb..." to "That's All" and "Illegal Alien".   

My point in bringing any of this out is to point out that Phil gets a lot of negative press that in my humble - nah - opinion, is well undeserved.   

[RoeDent]

We Built This City is just fun, dammit! Music can sometimes just be fun. Not every song has to try and answer life's big questions.

[TAC]

Since it was brought up (I had no idea he wrote the lyrics to this song, and I know this isn't the 'Controversial Opinions' thread) I always thought that for all the amazing music Elton John wrote, Bernie Taupin's lyrics are often mediocre at best, and are the worst part of many of his songs. I don't get this reverence for his writing.

My controversial opinion:  I think Grace Slick is beautiful in that video.   I love that look.

Dude, I'm pretty sure that's Micky Thomas.

[pg1067]

My point in bringing any of this out is to point out that Phil gets a lot of negative press that in my humble - nah - opinion, is well undeserved.

I'm in complete agreement with this.

[Stadler]

Since it was brought up (I had no idea he wrote the lyrics to this song, and I know this isn't the 'Controversial Opinions' thread) I always thought that for all the amazing music Elton John wrote, Bernie Taupin's lyrics are often mediocre at best, and are the worst part of many of his songs. I don't get this reverence for his writing.

My controversial opinion:  I think Grace Slick is beautiful in that video.   I love that look.

Dude, I'm pretty sure that's Micky Thomas.

Dammit.   

[Cruithne]

On what planet is We Built This City considered BAD (sic)?

No song is ‘bad’

Queensryche's Wot We Do really strains that notion 

(also, I should send you a link of some of my early songwriting efforts and you might rethink that  )

[Orbert]

Since there's no such thing as "objectively good" or "objectively bad" when it comes to art, I decided that the OP's question is asking for subjective opinions, and since this songs bugs the fuck out of me, I voted Yes.  It is bad.  It starts with a refrain that's clearly meant to be iconic but is actually really lame.  The verses have that horrible start-stop rhythm that's meant to be catchy but instead sounds like the drummer and bassist are having a collective synchronized seizure.  The words sound like they're supposed to be some kind of homage to "this city" but I never listened enough to figure out what city they're talking about because they weren't interesting enough to keep my attention that long.