Author Topic: Need advice because I am too weak to decide for myself  (Read 2466 times)

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Offline Orbert

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Need advice because I am too weak to decide for myself
« on: April 24, 2019, 11:44:23 AM »
The history (boring but necessary):

Mike is a pretty cool guy; I've always liked him.  His wife Karen is a sweetheart.  I like them both, even though as cool as they are, they're both complete airheads, and it drives me nuts sometimes, but they're meant for each other.  It works.

I met them through playing in church bands like 10 years ago, then later Karen's band was looking for a keyboard player so I joined, and later when our bass player quit, Mike was even our bassist for a while.

Mike and Karen are doing alright.  They have a very nice house out here in the 'burbs, and also "the lake house" just ten miles up the road, on one of the many lakes around here.  Every summer they have a big to-do at the lake house, Mike gets a bunch of bands, plus there's some open jamming in between sets and stuff.  All day/night party.  Mike invites "every musician I know" and it's a great time.  At least it always looks fun, from the Facebook pictures I see that Mike and Karen and a bunch of other people I know are tagged in.  I always felt a little jealous, wanting to join in the jams, hang with cool people like that.  One time it occurred to me, Mike has said multiple times that he invites every musician he knows.  I was invited exactly once; we were playing in a band together at the time so he pretty much had to. When I thought of that, I gotta be honest, I was kinda hurt.

Or maybe Mike's just an airhead and says he invites everyone, but everybody pretty much knows each other and they all just show up.  No reason to specifically feel excluded, right?  Except they all seem to know when to show up at the lake house.  It was a great time, we made some good jams.  I'd love to do it again.  We've been involved in a few musical things since then, though nothing serious.

Anyway, it's been a while, but Mike called me out of the blue this morning.  They're moving to Nashville, but they're having one last thing at the house (Mike's 60th birthday, actually).  And since everyone was going to be there, including all the former members of one of his old bands, they thought it'd be cool to put together a short list of songs and have a mini-reunion.  But, the keyboard player had to pull out at the last minute due to a family thing.  Wait, when is this?  This Sunday, four days from now.

Well, shit.  Huge birthday party, everyone's invited, although after knowing him and playing with him for almost ten years, I'm still not on the list.  But when your keyboard player has to drop out at the last minute and you need someone, oh yeah, there's Bob.

I look at the list.  12 songs, Six for sure and six maybes.  I know over half of them now and the rest are easy enough.  I'd sit in on keyboards and kick ass and get to play with Mike and Karen one last time before they move away, plus help save the gig and be the hero from coast to coast.

A million reasons to do it, and one not to.  Because it annoys me, nay, it hurts, OKAY FINE IT PISSES ME OFF that I'm never invited.  I'm a fucking crybaby about that, I'm six years old and I'm the new kid on the block and all the other kids know each other and exclude me even though a couple of times they've hung with me and I thought it was cool but maybe I guess not but YEAH WHEN YOUR KEYBOARD PLAYER CAN'T MAKE IT, WHO YOU GONNA CALL?  And if Mike had not called, I wouldn't have known or cared about the party and they would've moved to Nashville and I'd've maybe heard about it later some time.  But he did call, and after getting a little excited for a minute, now there's a part of me that wants to say FUCK YOU.

But I know he's an airhead.  I know it's still possible (how possible, I'm not sure) that there was absolutely no slight intended, and I really am being a six-year-old about this.  Yep, guilty as charged.

I told Mike I'll check out the list and let him know by the end of the day whether I'm in.  I have no idea, or maybe way too many ideas, about what to say.

Offline Samsara

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Re: Need advice because I am too weak to decide for myself
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2019, 11:52:49 AM »
Life is short, and people are people. If you WANT to go, and WANT to jam, do it. If you don't, just don't. Seems to me you know this guy and his wife well. But they don't really treat you right. So it is up to you whether you have enough fun, doing this for yourself, or if you rather spend your day/evening doing something else. Ask yourself that, and whatever the answer is, go with that. I learned long ago that people are quirky. I have quirky friends that sort of ebb and flow out of my life. I just stopped really getting offended by it, and chalked it up to them being them.
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Online King Postwhore

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Re: Need advice because I am too weak to decide for myself
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2019, 12:01:45 PM »
I always say to my employees.  Be the better person.  You will feel better about life and about yourself that way.  Play it.  If you never get invited again you know it's not you, it's him.  Do it for yourself and know you did the right thing.
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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Need advice because I am too weak to decide for myself
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2019, 12:24:54 PM »
5 years from now, what would you regret more - declining, or actually playing at the party?

Hell, Monday morning which would you regret?

I think you know your answer.
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Online cramx3

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Re: Need advice because I am too weak to decide for myself
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2019, 12:33:49 PM »
Sounds like you want to play it so you should do what you want. 

Having said that, I can kind of relate, I won't go into details but I have some gamer friends who effectively do the same thing to me on a smaller level.  It makes me mad to feel like I'm being treated differently or just flat out, not liked and only liked when needed.  I feel like I am in high school with this group of people and it's so frustrating. 

But would you rather soak in those emotions or go out and have fun for one last time? 

For me, although it does still get to me, I've gotten so much better at not letting it effect my attitude overall and just keep the mindset of I'll play along so I can have my enjoyment too, but I know these people are not my true friends.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Need advice because I am too weak to decide for myself
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2019, 12:45:21 PM »
I TOTALLY understand your feelings on this. TOTALLY, and if I'm being honest it would bug the fuck out of me.  But I also agree with Jingle.  So I would do it.

And then there's this:  I went through something similar with a couple friends from college, and I got drunk one night and said something. Turns out I totally misread the situation.  Not saying it's definitely that way for you, but you ARE guessing, and while I don't suggest you ignore your feelings, perhaps you can offset them with the joy of playing and the fact that it's the last time you have to deal with this.


Offline Podaar

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Re: Need advice because I am too weak to decide for myself
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2019, 12:45:53 PM »
Do it, Orbert. It'll be cool, and once the party's over you'll feel better about it than you do now. In my experience, these "slights" are never as intentional or personal as they appear. Besides, you clearly love to perform. Go rock your socks off and let the chips fall where they may.
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Online El Barto

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Re: Need advice because I am too weak to decide for myself
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2019, 02:21:09 PM »
I'm siding with Samsara and Podaar. I have some relatives that are pretty self-centered. One of whom I know for an absolute fact loves me dearly and is probably more fond of me than any other relatives save for her brother. When she comes to Dallas I might or might not hear about it, but probably won't. Not because she doesn't want to hang out with me, but because it might not even occur to her to do so. She knows a ton of people and she's always in motion. I don't take it personally. That's just the way she is. When the opportunity arises I enjoy hanging out and that's what matters.
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Offline TAC

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Re: Need advice because I am too weak to decide for myself
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2019, 02:44:07 PM »
Back in the day, Megadeth did a club tour for Peace Sells. The day of the show, my friends call me out of the blue saying they have a ticket if I can drive them to the show. I thought, WTF, I don't remember talking about this or even knew they were going. Now because your ride bailed I get a call??

I told them I was busy.

I don't regret my decision except for the fact that I would love to look back and see that show in my mind's eye.


The guy doesn't sound like a airhead, he sounds like a dickhead.

If you decide to go, do it for you. But fuck them!
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Orbert

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Re: Need advice because I am too weak to decide for myself
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2019, 03:09:30 PM »
Short version:  I told him No.

As expected, different people pointed out different sides of the issue, which helped me put everything in perspective.  What I didn't expect was that a couple of the people essentially encouraging me to take the gig ended up being the ones talking me out of it.

I play music for myself first.  I am selfish about it; I do it because I like it, and if others dig what I'm doing, that's cool, too.  I like it more if others like it, but hell, I'll sit and play for hours alone in the basement for the sheer joy of playing.

But if I'm playing with a group, then what counts is what I'm bringing to the table.  Do I enjoy playing with this group?  Do I have something to offer?  Will others, within the band and without, dig what I'm doing?

I looked at the list too quickly the first time, and realized that most of the "I know this one... I know that one..." were just songs I've heard enough times to where I could play them, especially if I'm sitting there with the charts because everyone knows I was called in last minute and don't know the songs like they do.  Actually, I only "know" one song from the main list and one from the list of maybes.  Most of the others I've heard many times, and another one from each list I've played before but wouldn't say I know.  I'd have to work these tunes up.

Mike did everything right.  He sent me the list, and recordings of the band made back in the day, so I'd know the arrangements.  The band is a nine-piece band, with a full horn section.  Yes, the keyboards are in there, but so are two guitars, horns, bass and drums.  This isn't a four-piece band that usually has keyboards and will be missing a big part of their sound; the keys won't be missed.  I'm not leaving anyone high and dry.  Their regular guy would be missed.  I would not be.

Someone said do it for me, do it because it's what I want to do.  And I just don't want to do it.  I'd be doing it for me, but I'd have to work at it, and the return isn't worth it.  With no gig and no practice this Saturday, I was looking forward to a day off; I would instead spend the whole day working up songs for a one-off that no one cares about.  My contributions would be minimal, my absence completely unnoticed.

This isn't an "I'll show them!" moment, or anyone trying to teach anyone a lesson.  There's no lesson to be learned.  I wasn't invited to this party, I wasn't even thought of, until they needed someone.  Mike knows lots of musicians.  Someone else can sit in on keyboards.  I won't be used like that.

Offline TAC

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Re: Need advice because I am too weak to decide for myself
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2019, 03:12:08 PM »
Way to go O!
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

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Re: Need advice because I am too weak to decide for myself
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2019, 03:17:38 PM »
Back in the day, Megadeth did a club tour for Peace Sells. The day of the show, my friends call me out of the blue saying they have a ticket if I can drive them to the show. I thought, WTF, I don't remember talking about this or even knew they were going. Now because your ride bailed I get a call??

I told them I was busy.

I don't regret my decision except for the fact that I would love to look back and see that show in my mind's eye.


The guy doesn't sound like a airhead, he sounds like a dickhead.

If you decide to go, do it for you. But fuck them!

I would have too if I had to hear Mustaine sing live.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Need advice because I am too weak to decide for myself
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2019, 08:05:52 PM »
I'm with TAC.  I know myself, and if it were me in this situation, I wouldn't go.

Good call, Orbert. :tup :tup

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Re: Need advice because I am too weak to decide for myself
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2019, 08:12:56 PM »
Holy shit!



I'm with TAC. 



Everyone's internet still working??
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Need advice because I am too weak to decide for myself
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2019, 08:19:40 PM »
Trust me, tears were dripping down my cheek when I was typing that. :lol :lol

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Need advice because I am too weak to decide for myself
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2019, 04:56:56 AM »
You're explanation and rationale are completely valid.
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
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Online Zydar

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Re: Need advice because I am too weak to decide for myself
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2019, 04:59:30 AM »
TAC :lol
Zydar is my new hero.  I just laughed so hard I nearly shat.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Need advice because I am too weak to decide for myself
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2019, 07:45:26 AM »
I'm siding with Samsara and Podaar. I have some relatives that are pretty self-centered. One of whom I know for an absolute fact loves me dearly and is probably more fond of me than any other relatives save for her brother. When she comes to Dallas I might or might not hear about it, but probably won't. Not because she doesn't want to hang out with me, but because it might not even occur to her to do so. She knows a ton of people and she's always in motion. I don't take it personally. That's just the way she is. When the opportunity arises I enjoy hanging out and that's what matters.

You know, in reading that, it dawned on me that I'm kind of like your relative.  I wouldn't call it "self-centered", since it's more complicated (I'm pretty outgoing here and in person, but I'm an introvert.  I will often choose to just spend time by myself. I was in NYC the night before and I spent about an hour and a half just walking the city by myself.  It was AWESOME.) but I can understand not being able to check every box every time.   

Online King Postwhore

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Re: Need advice because I am too weak to decide for myself
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2019, 08:06:51 AM »
I think that's a little different Stadler to not inviting a friend over while inviting others over all the time.  Excluding is very different.
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Online MinistroRaven

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Re: Need advice because I am too weak to decide for myself
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2019, 08:13:18 AM »
I can kind of relate too, I won't go into details but I have some family members that do this to me all the time.

It has happened ALWAYS, when we were in our country and it happens here all the time, too.
It sucks, because it seems I don't exists for anything else than when they are in trouble (financially or need advice) and I am the youngest of all the brothers. It sucks

Online cramx3

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Re: Need advice because I am too weak to decide for myself
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2019, 08:20:05 AM »
I think that's a little different Stadler to not inviting a friend over while inviting others over all the time.  Excluding is very different.

Yea, that's why I felt more along the lines of Orbert than EB.  It feels more intentional than not although it's totally possible it was just an oversight, but the wording the guy used saying he invites everyone he plays with makes me think exclusion is a good way to describe what happened and the inclusion only happened based on need.  I still stand to think that if Orbert really wanted to do this he should, but sounds like it's more work than worth it and is making his stand.  So be it, that's a fine decision IMO, but I do hope you won't regret not playing one last time with your friends.

And then there's this:  I went through something similar with a couple friends from college, and I got drunk one night and said something. Turns out I totally misread the situation.  Not saying it's definitely that way for you, but you ARE guessing, and while I don't suggest you ignore your feelings, perhaps you can offset them with the joy of playing and the fact that it's the last time you have to deal with this.

Here's the thing though, if the person truly did do it on purpose to exclude someone, they won't admit to it just because you bring it up.  But until it is brought up, you are only guessing and going off your own rationale.  Going back to my own personal example I didn't get too much into, I did bring it up to the one guy who has been pretty much excluding me on times, and he had his excuses and got really mad about it (which made me think, oh yea I was totally spot on based on his response).  Nothing changed after that convo either other than I got ridiculed in a demeaning way which just confirmed everything I believed.  And I do also still game with this guy from time to time, but that whole situation just confirmed to me what I felt all along, he's not a true friend of mine and I've made my own adjustments to how I react to him and learned to not let his exclusion bother me anymore.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Need advice because I am too weak to decide for myself
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2019, 08:32:47 AM »
I think that's a little different Stadler to not inviting a friend over while inviting others over all the time.  Excluding is very different.

No, I get that.  I was sort of just sort of struck by how much reading Bart's post was like looking in the mirror.   I do think that what Orbert is talking about is different; more "conscious" if you will.   I'm starting to think, given his conclusion, that Orbert repeating over and over that he's an "airhead" was actually a subliminal or subconscious allusion to the fact that he DOESN'T think it's because "airhead".  I think I was lucky with my friend(s) from college, and I know that.   I feel bad for you, Cram, and I know for me, I'm at a place now where I can jettison that tool from my life and not lose too much sleep over it.   I hope you can find some peace there. 
« Last Edit: April 25, 2019, 08:45:16 AM by Stadler »

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Re: Need advice because I am too weak to decide for myself
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2019, 08:36:32 AM »
I have felt that the older i get the less I want to deal with people.  I think that has a big part because of work and dealing with employees.  I know, I know.  I sound old.  I say beat down.
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Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: Need advice because I am too weak to decide for myself
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2019, 10:27:44 AM »
Any word on whether or not this particular Mike is a no-talent assclown?

Offline Orbert

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Re: Need advice because I am too weak to decide for myself
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2019, 11:24:04 AM »
Mike is actually a great bassist, great to jam with and was always a plus to have in the band.  For whatever reason, I never made it into his circle of friends.  I was never cool enough to hang with him and his friends.  It annoys me, and it annoys me that it annoys me, because this is grade-school jealousy shit and I know it.

Re-reading the thread, I do seem to try to give Mike the benefit of the doubt as being an airhead, because I just don't want to believe it's intentional, even as all evidence says otherwise.  I was telling my wife about this last night, and she said I've mentioned before how bummed I was when I saw the pictures of all the parties and jam sessions that "everyone" is invited to, and she hoped I told him to fuck off.  I don't remember bringing it up with her before, but obviously I did and it affected me enough to mention it.  I didn't tell Mike to fuck off, I thanked him and told him I was glad he thought of me, but I wouldn't be able to do it (all true).  I also wished him a happy birthday and I hope everything goes well for them in Nashville.  That will have to be my version of taking the high road.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Need advice because I am too weak to decide for myself
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2019, 11:33:43 AM »
That's a class act, Orbert.   Not every battle has to be a war.

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Need advice because I am too weak to decide for myself
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2019, 12:02:24 PM »
Any word on whether or not this particular Mike is a no-talent assclown?

Coz !!!

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Offline Orbert

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Re: Need advice because I am too weak to decide for myself
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2019, 12:03:54 PM »
Ah, I totally missed that!

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Re: Need advice because I am too weak to decide for myself
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2019, 01:29:15 PM »
I think that's a little different Stadler to not inviting a friend over while inviting others over all the time.  Excluding is very different.

Yea, that's why I felt more along the lines of Orbert than EB.  It feels more intentional than not although it's totally possible it was just an oversight, but the wording the guy used saying he invites everyone he plays with makes me think exclusion is a good way to describe what happened and the inclusion only happened based on need.  I still stand to think that if Orbert really wanted to do this he should, but sounds like it's more work than worth it and is making his stand.  So be it, that's a fine decision IMO, but I do hope you won't regret not playing one last time with your friends.
At the time I didn't get the impression that it was intentional on the part of Orber's associate. It was pretty reasonable that he was just self-absorbed. What would have settled the matter is whether or not he got the invitation to attend as a guest rather than as a keyboard player once he declined. Seems like Orbert's explanation didn't lend itself to that opportunity.

And for the third time in a week I'll ask the same question about a different member. Has Coz been here all along and I just haven't noticed?
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Re: Need advice because I am too weak to decide for myself
« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2019, 01:35:18 PM »
No. Coz pops in once in a while.  First post in over a month or so.
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Re: Need advice because I am too weak to decide for myself
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2019, 01:41:29 PM »
No. Coz pops in once in a while.  First post in over a month or so.

Yea, I've seen coz randomly in the drinking thread but not really anywhere else in the last year or two.  But its nice to have him back. 

I guess EB brings up a good point about the invite after, that would reveal a lot.

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Re: Need advice because I am too weak to decide for myself
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2019, 01:57:51 PM »
Speaking of Coz and this thread. When I first opened up the thread and started reading I was kind of wondering if Orbert was going to punk me ala Coz. I kept expecting a punchline.  :lol

But, yea, my post to Orbert was leaning heavily on the idea that Mark was an airhead and not a nozzle. Sounds like Orbert handled the situation well. Good on you, Sir.   :tup
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Re: Need advice because I am too weak to decide for myself
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2019, 02:28:14 PM »
Any word on whether or not this particular Mike is a no-talent assclown?

Why should I change?  He's the one who sucks.
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Re: Need advice because I am too weak to decide for myself
« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2019, 05:33:21 PM »
Someone said do it for me, do it because it's what I want to do.  And I just don't want to do it.  I'd be doing it for me, but I'd have to work at it, and the return isn't worth it.  With no gig and no practice this Saturday, I was looking forward to a day off; I would instead spend the whole day working up songs for a one-off that no one cares about.  My contributions would be minimal, my absence completely unnoticed.

This isn't an "I'll show them!" moment, or anyone trying to teach anyone a lesson.  There's no lesson to be learned.  I wasn't invited to this party, I wasn't even thought of, until they needed someone.  Mike knows lots of musicians.  Someone else can sit in on keyboards.  I won't be used like that.

I would have posted what Tim posted just above this.  Fuck them.  YOU don't want to go, you didn't go.  They weren't gonna invite you if the other guy showed up so you ARE being the better person, being true to yourself and respecting yourself.  We are people, we are not fucking dogs that get kicked and then come crawling back for more.  Life's too short to deal with dickhead people.  99% of people don't give a fuck about you anyway and do things and include you for their own selfish gain.  You did the right thing IMO.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2019, 06:05:14 PM by wolfking »
Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.

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Re: Need advice because I am too weak to decide for myself
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2019, 05:51:37 PM »


I would have posted what Tim posted just above this.  Fuck them.  YOU don't want to go, you didn't go.  They weren't gonna invite you if the other guy showed up so you ARE being the better person, being true to yourself and respecting yourself.  We are people, we are not fucking dogs that get kicked and then come crawling back for me.  Life's too short to deal with dickhead people.  99% of people don't give a fuck about you anyway and do things and include you for their own selfish gain.  You did the right thing IMO.

Amen to this.