How do you feel about smartphone photography and filming at concerts?

[Samsara]

I think the issue is more this. In the U.S., if you take a picture or video of an artist performing, YOU, not the artist, own that, and the copyright to it. I believe one of the main reasons some artists try to say "no pictures, no videos" is not because it bothers them, but because they don't want people profiting off their performance or likeness. And with the quality of both pictures and videos these days, I can understand their concern.

What I call horseshit on, is an artist saying "no pics, no recording" simply because they just want to control the experience. The experience is, to me, what fans make it, not what the artist tries to control it to be. The artist should be controlling what is happening on the stage. What happens off of it, and the vibe the music/performance creates, and how a fan enjoys that, should not be something the artist has control of. Again, totally my opinion.

Legally-speaking, bosk is correct, with my above added commentary in the first paragraph added in. But in general, while I don't like the obnoxious conduct of fans, and think fans need more self control, they paid for the concert, and should have the freedom (notice I didn't say "right") to do what they want, within reason.

[cramx3]

I think the issue is more this. In the U.S., if you take a picture or video of an artist performing, YOU, not the artist, own that, and the copyright to it. I believe one of the main reasons some artists try to say "no pictures, no videos" is not because it bothers them, but because they don't want people profiting off their performance or likeness. And with the quality of both pictures and videos these days, I can understand their concern.

That's not true though, almost every video I put on youtube gets a copy right claim.  For example, I put up a video of Tesla last weekend and got this email:

   
Dear cramx3,

Your video "Tesla - LIVE - Shock Tour @ Starland Ballroom Sayreville NJ 4/20/2019 *cramx3 concert experience*", may have content that is owned or licensed by ICE_CS, APRA_CS, TONO_CS, ECAD_CS, TEOSTO, and KODA_CS, but it’s still available on YouTube! In some cases, ads may appear next to it.

If this is your performance of a 3rd party song then you can still make money from this video. Click here to change your monetization settings.

This claim is not penalizing your account status. Visit your Copyright Notice page for more details on the policy applied to your video.

- The YouTube Team

Not every video gets this, specifically smaller bands don't have the ability probably to claim all the videos, but once I make "my" video public, it is owned by the copyright owner fairly quickly usually.  I think I could turn monetization on for videos that are not claimed, but that seems wrong.  I haven't made a single dollar from youtube personally. 

What I call horseshit on, is an artist saying "no pics, no recording" simply because they just want to control the experience. The experience is, to me, what fans make it, not what the artist tries to control it to be. The artist should be controlling what is happening on the stage. What happens off of it, and the vibe the music/performance creates, and how a fan enjoys that, should not be something the artist has control of. Again, totally my opinion.

Personally, I think a lot of bands that use this excuse also happen to be pretty bad live performers (cough Misfits cough). 

and I'm still missing the point on the legality of it, sure there are rules and if broken even if not against the law, you will be removed and have no legal right to challenge, but it's not like they would make me delete my video if I got kicked out or call the cops on me.  At least I don't know of that happening (and I'm yet to be kicked out of a concert).

[KevShmev]

I think we also have to take into account the wow factor when it comes to really awesome live moments. What if a band does something really cool and unique that will get a wow/huge applause moment out of each crowd, but oh wait, a bunch of people have recorded those moments on their cell and put in on YT, and now fans seeing the band later in the tour have already seen it on YT, so the wow factor isn't there, which takes away from the live moment.

It reminds me of why Dave Chappelle doesn't allow recordings of any of his stand-up shows, because if you have already seen the joke on YT, then it won't be as funny when he tells it at your show, and he can't come up with the new material from every single show, nor should have have to.

[Samsara]

Cram,

Unless copyright law in the U.S. has changed (and it could have) over the last 16 years, a picture you take of an artist is something you captured, and you own that copyright, and are free to do with what you choose. That includes selling it. Again, my knowledge of the law in this area is from 16 years ago, so it absolutely could have changed. But at the time, that was the extent of it.

Video though -- what you are describing is odd. I have tons of video up there on YouTube, and I've never once gotten that kind of email. But the law in the area of videos could very well be different, and I'm just not up on it any longer.

I do know that back in 2013, people were asking Queensryche to put out a live Blu-ray concert, and when I asked mgmt and their attorney about it, they said they thought about it, but with people taking high quality video and posting it on YouTube, it makes the potential sales of a blu-ray go down significantly, so they elected not to do it, figuring YouTube was out there for people who wanted to see the band on video. Boiling that down -- basically it came to that the band knew it couldn't profit a lot off a blu-ray release because of high quality fan recordings, so they didn't bother with one.

Again, my knowledge of copyright law in the U.S. is 16 years old, so I could be off, and if so, I apologize. Just not an area I keep up with any longer.

[cramx3]

I dont know the laws either, just know my stuff that I post of copyrighted material often gets claimed and the owner gets the ad revenue, if there is any which I wouldn't even know.  Picture vs. video probably is different though.  The video has the copyrighted music, the picture is well just an image so I can see why the photographer owns the image. 

As for the example with Queensyrche, that's pretty much true for smaller bands.  It's hard to justify the cost of a live video when there's so much free on the internet.  I don't think personally that should stop them, but that's just me since I buy up concert videos all the time.

I think we also have to take into account the wow factor when it comes to really awesome live moments. What if a band does something really cool and unique that will get a wow/huge applause moment out of each crowd, but oh wait, a bunch of people have recorded those moments on their cell and put in on YT, and now fans seeing the band later in the tour have already seen it on YT, so the wow factor isn't there, which takes away from the live moment.

It reminds me of why Dave Chappelle doesn't allow recordings of any of his stand-up shows, because if you have already seen the joke on YT, then it won't be as funny when he tells it at your show, and he can't come up with the new material from every single show, nor should have have to.

Hard to compare comedy vs a concert though.  While both may be performing the same thing every night, you don't get the same joy of hearing a joke a second time vs seeing a song performance the 5th time or whatever.  But this is a reason why I typically don't watch youtube concert videos until after I've seen the show.  I don't want the subtleties of the tour to be spoiled.

[TAC]

Don't get me wrong, I am fine with taking a few pics, as I will sometimes snap a few myself, but if the artist specifically says beforehand that they do not want it done, I would not do it.  Buying a ticket does not give you some divine right to do whatever you want.  You have a ticket to see a concert, not record it or take pictures at it.

Buying the ticket DOES give me the divine right. It's a fucking picture for God's sake.

Sorry, but you are dead wrong on this.  Buying a ticket does not give you the right to do anything the band, venue, and municipality do not allow you to do.  You don't have to like it or agree with it, but that's the way it is.  The law is 100% against you on this one, and there isn't even a slight bit of wiggle room in the argument.  If artist, venue, and municipality set a rule for their shows, whether it be "no pictures" or whatever else, and you break the rule, they can kick you out and there is zero you can do about it because, legally, you have no rights other than what they give you.

I do understand that. Trust me.

Is divine a legal term?
I may not have a legal right, or any right for that matter, except the right to skip their show and not buy their albums.

[The Walrus]

I took a photo of The Astonishing stage before house lights went down.  

[bosk1]

I took a photo of The Astonishing stage before house lights went down.  

I took a selfie next to the sign that said "no photos or video."

[TAC]

You guys are heathens.

[The Walrus]

 

[Samsara]

 

So, are we done here now? 

p.s. F*CK BOB DYLAN (that was for you, T)

[Zantera]

Taking pictures I can understand but recording videos has always seemed a bit strange to me. Like what do you do with those videos afterwards? The quality is like mediocre at best with an expensive phone but I guess I just can't see myself in that position that I would want to revisit and watch a lo-fi recorded video of a song.

[King Postwhore]

I took a photo of The Astonishing stage before house lights went down.  

I took a selfie next to the sign that said "no photos or video."

I took a picture next to a sign at a Patriots practice in 2008.  The sign said no videotaping while on the premises.   

[The Walrus]

Taking pictures I can understand but recording videos has always seemed a bit strange to me. Like what do you do with those videos afterwards? The quality is like mediocre at best with an expensive phone but I guess I just can't see myself in that position that I would want to revisit and watch a lo-fi recorded video of a song.

I recorded this with a phone and revisit it every now and then. Sounds really good. Gotta be mindful about what you're recording. A super loud heavy metal song can actually come through pretty clean sometimes but a lot of people don't take the time to set their equipment up for it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRbZ5Dm-HeU

[Stadler]

I took a photo of The Astonishing stage before house lights went down.  

I took a selfie next to the sign that said "no photos or video."

I took a picture next to a sign at a Patriots practice in 2008.  The sign said no videotaping while on the premises.   

And I took video of King being arrested for said photo.   

https://youtu.be/PeihcfYft9w

[TAC]

So, are we done here now? 

p.s. F*CK BOB DYLAN (that was for you, T)

I figured Bob Dylan might be interested in our poll..

[cramx3]

 

[Samsara]

I love the fact TAC has a tab with a live show recording site open. 

[TAC]

It's actually my toolbar!

[King Postwhore]

You are a toolbar!

[cramx3]

I love the fact TAC has a tab with a live show recording site open. 

 

[TAC]

You are a toolbar!

 

[JLa]

I don't mind too much myself, but I struggle to understand why some people try to record as much as possible instead of just enjoying the moment. If you prefer to watch the show on a screen, just buy the DVD?!

[Anguyen92]

I went with #3 for this one.  You can go ahead and have your phone out all you want and I couldn't care, but it would be nice if people with their phones can be a little considerate and read the atmosphere around to see if everyone's having a good time.  If I'm in GA, I always turn my back to the person behind me and I ask them if they can see well and if they don't, I can position myself accordingly.  Interestingly, they always that they can see well so it's not an issue.

I think in all of the concerts I've been to, I only had one issue in a show relating to cell phones.  All of the other shows I've been to, I did not have an issue with people having their cell phones out and they are filming stuff, even in the shows I was in GA for.  I mentioned this a couple of times, but since this is a topic that that is very relevant I can say it again.  So, at the DT show at the Wiltern a couple of weeks back, I was having issues with my view where I was seating.  Since I was in the very far back and the section wasn't tiered seating, if there was a tall person a couple of rows ahead of me, I was going to have an issue with my view. 

During the intermission, I had this idea to go ahead and move from Section 4 of the Wiltern Theater to Section 5 which is the absolutely far back in the Floor area where Section 5 is slightly higher than Section 4, thus I have a better view of the stage.  It worked and I can finally start enjoying the DT show with how I intended to and can enjoy watching them play SFAM in its entirety.  About 30 minutes in, there was this guy in Section 4 and he decided, since he couldn't see with all the tall people in front, to stand on his chair which blocked my center view of the stage.  I wouldn't have any issues if he wanted to enjoy the show better, but he was just filming on his phone and not reacting to anything (no applauding, no positive aura, nothing that indicates that he's enjoying the show.  He was just filming).  That lasted for mainly the latter half of the SFAM set.  Even the guy next to me showed me a text that stated "Sorry, that you picked the one position where the guy was standing on his chair." and all I can do is shrug.

So note to self when wanting to see DT again, I need to make sure that I can get a seat in a tiered section so I can avoid this issue, or hope they do all GA in the floor section and I can position myself accordingly if there are taller people near the front.  Other than this incident, nope, cell phones has never affected my mood in the concerts other than the DT show I went to.  You can do whatever you want with the phone, but a little courtesy around the people near you never hurts (which it feels like people may lack nowadays.  Don't know why).

[cramx3]

Kind of surprised security would let one person stand on a chair.  I've only stood on my chair once that I can recall, on the floor at MSG for Incubus (chairs on a flat arena floor) and you couldn't see much at all, so everyone stood on their chairs, that was in like 2004.  I feel like security these days wouldn't be cool with that.

For some reason I was just reminded about this incident at a Slipknot show I went to that made some metal headlines:

Slipknot's Corey Taylor Slaps Phone Out of Texting Fan's Hands

What are peoples thoughts about that?

[The Walrus]

^ Dick. Don't damage other people's property. You can be angry or upset all you want, but he could've totally f'ed his phone up by knocking it out like that.

[Adami]

Well, remember the BIG Guns n Roses incident back in the early 90's? Some dude had a camera, Axle yelled to have it taken away, no one did, so he dove into the audience to beat the guy up, walked off stage, and then a riot started.