How do you feel about smartphone photography and filming at concerts?

[senecadawg2]

It seems that the ubiquity of smartphones has significantly changed the concert experience, and I see no end in sight. What do you all think about this?

Personally, I think 99% of phone activity cheapens the experience and shows a level of disrespect toward both the performers and the fellow audience members. About the remaining 1%—even though it's not something I do, I wouldn't think to judge someone who wants to hold their phone facedown in their lap to record a song that's really dear to them. Also, I have no issues with people taking photos or videos after the performance is over, but that's pretty much where I draw the line. The idea that someone's view of the stage might be blocked by my screen, as I record what will is likely to be a very low quality video, embarrasses me.

And please understand, I have plenty of friends and relatives who do this too, including a beloved brother. If that's you, I'd love to hear your perspective on this. I admit that maybe I'm just being curmudgeonly. Of course, I would never assume malicious intent or anything close to it. People are clearly just trying to have a good time. All the same, I don't think this trend reflects well on where we are as a society. Similar to our social media habits, I think it illustrates a strange, compulsive narcissism that just won't quit.

Am I being unreasonably harsh? Is there anything to be done?

[The Walrus]

Doesn't bother me as long as people aren't holding them way out in front, way high in the air, and they're not doing it for a long time - so I went with #3... Keep the brightness down, the flash off, and the phone close to your chest - that's what I do. I try to get it out of the way early on, and maybe a photo or two later if there's a solo spot or a guest appearance, etc. But even then, if someone's not being obnoxious with it, I don't mind them having their phone out. I completely understand wanting to capture some memories to look back on and remember that night. Don't care if they have pro photographers there - my photos/videos are my own and have their own memories attached to them. Thankfully video quality is much better these days. I have a great video of Anneke van Giersbergen covering Like A Stone and I never want to lose it, ever.

The only time I have ever asked someone to put their phone down is at the Helloween show last year which was a once in a lifetime deal and his camera was in the air right in front of me, and after 2 songs I barked at him to put it down (and thankfully he did). Otherwise I've never had an issue.

[Phoenix87x]

If people aren't blocking my view, then it doesn't bother me.

Me personally, I snap one or two quick photos and then the phone is back in my pocket.

[bosk1]

Doesn't bother me as long as people aren't holding them way out in front, way high in the air, and they're not doing it for a long time - so I went with #3... Keep the brightness down, the flash off, and the phone close to your chest - that's what I do. I try to get it out of the way early on, and maybe a photo or two later if there's a solo spot or a guest appearance, etc. But even then, if someone's not being obnoxious with it, I don't mind them having their phone out. I completely understand wanting to capture some memories to look back on and remember that night.

This is pretty close to how I feel.  If it interferes with the band or other fans, it's really a jerk thing to do.  And while I don't get the mindset of taking endless pics or videos throughout an entire show instead of watching the show, I won't begrudge someone for doing that if that's their thing.  It's really none of my business if it isn't posing an undue distraction by blocking my (or someone else's) view.

As far as the option about the venue or band disallowing it...Okay, I'm generally a rule follower.  If a band or venue doesn't allow it, I personally am not going to do it.  But if someone else wants to, that's not my problem.  In fact, I was even at a show for a certain unnamed band where security was absolutely not allowing pics at all.  I was right behind a young couple that were right up against the barricade, and the young lady was snapping pics as often as she could when security wasn't standing right in front of her.  She wasn't obstructing anyone's view, and in fact, since security was being so uptight about it, was actually doing her best to be incognito about the whole thing.  It got to be a fun little game where the security guy would stroll off to the side to deal with something or other, she would pull out her phone and start snapping, and when I would see the security guy coming back our way, I would tap her on the shoulder so she would know, and she should shove it back in her pocket. 

[The Walrus]

Hell hasn't frozen over, bosk. Stop agreeing with me on things. 

[El Barto]

I begrudgingly went with number 1. Mostly because I'm a fan of personal freedom. I'm also a big fan of not being a dick, so 3 is a viable option, but really, we're always blocking each other. I'm 6-0 and my concert buddy is ~6-2. We're blocking somebody. Plenty of times there's a 6-5 guy up front blocking my view.

[Adami]

I begrudgingly went with number 1. Mostly because I'm a fan of personal freedom. I'm also a big fan of not being a dick, so 3 is a viable option, but really, we're always blocking each other. I'm 6-0 and my concert buddy is ~6-2. We're blocking somebody. Plenty of times there's a 6-5 guy up front blocking my view.

Yes but there's a difference between blocking someone because the devil gave you a tall body, and blocking someone by an action you're taking. a 6'5 guy would have to go out of his way not to block someone. A guy filming goes out of his way TO block people.

[bosk1]

Hell hasn't frozen over, bosk. Stop agreeing with me on things. 

Oh, my bad then! 

[cramx3]

1, well obviously for me

I'm very conscious of the people around me.  And I think that separates the people who bother others vs the ones who are doing it peacefully.

Funny enough, the only time someone confronted me was at a 311 concert GA floor where I deliberately went to the back behind anyone so I could capture the live debut of a song (I had a hunch something new was coming up and moved from mid pit to the back) and yet someone somehow got behind me when they could have easily been in front or around me (no one was around that back part near the bars).  He was so wasted and I couldn't understand anything besides he was going to beat me up if I didn't move 

I actually asked the guy next to me at the recent DT show if I was bothering him with my camera and he said "why would it?" True, we were in the last row, there's no one to block. 

[krands85]

Doesn't bother me as long as people aren't holding them way out in front, way high in the air, and they're not doing it for a long time - so I went with #3... Keep the brightness down, the flash off, and the phone close to your chest - that's what I do. I try to get it out of the way early on, and maybe a photo or two later if there's a solo spot or a guest appearance, etc. But even then, if someone's not being obnoxious with it, I don't mind them having their phone out. I completely understand wanting to capture some memories to look back on and remember that night.

This is pretty close to how I feel.  If it interferes with the band or other fans, it's really a jerk thing to do.  And while I don't get the mindset of taking endless pics or videos throughout an entire show instead of watching the show, I won't begrudge someone for doing that if that's their thing.  It's really none of my business if it isn't posing an undue distraction by blocking my (or someone else's) view.

This sums it up pretty well for me.

I've read lots of people getting really annoyed by this trend, even complaining when others are filming discreetly, saying they should be watching the show properly, rather than through a little screen. But I don't really buy that, you can still film while watching the band directly and it should be up to you how you choose to enjoy yourself at a gig, as long as you do it respectfully.

I wouldn't want it the other way, with filming being banned. I've had a lot of enjoyment watching live videos from Youtube over the years, as well as reliving great memories rewatching some of my own clips. Just think how much of a bummer it is that there is very little (if any) good footage of The Astonishing tour. I really wouldn't want that to be the norm.

[senecadawg2]

1, well obviously for me

I'm very conscious of the people around me.  And I think that separates the people who bother others vs the ones who are doing it peacefully.

Funny enough, the only time someone confronted me was at a 311 concert GA floor where I deliberately went to the back behind anyone so I could capture the live debut of a song (I had a hunch something new was coming up and moved from mid pit to the back) and yet someone somehow got behind me when they could have easily been in front or around me (no one was around that back part near the bars).  He was so wasted and I couldn't understand anything besides he was going to beat me up if I didn't move 

I actually asked the guy next to me at the recent DT show if I was bothering him with my camera and he said "why would it?" True, we were in the last row, there's no one to block.

This is an important distinction.

I rarely run into problems at shows that are GA, as I'm quick to move if I feel it's necessary and more often than not I arrive early enough to stand at the front anyhow. I suppose a lot of my frustration comes from feeling helpless at a seated show, particularly when I've shelled out for the best seats available and I'm stuck behind an asshole less conscientious about these things than you.

On another point, I can't say I'm disappointed at the lack of recordings from TA tour, and I really enjoyed the lack of recording at that show. May be an impasse.

[KevShmev]

I've read lots of people getting really annoyed by this trend, even complaining when others are filming discreetly, saying they should be watching the show properly, rather than through a little screen. But I don't really buy that, you can still film while watching the band directly and it should be up to you how you choose to enjoy yourself at a gig, as long as you do it respectfully.

While I agree that if someone wants to waste their concert experience filming it, that is their right (if allowed by the venue and artist), but there is no way you can enjoy the concert to the fullest when recording it.  Yeah, you can watch, but since you are still concentrating on holding your phone still to get the recording, you are distracted to some extent, and what if you want to rock out and head bang along?  Oops, you can't because you are too busy recording the show instead of enjoying the moment to the fullest.  Like I said, if someone wants to ruin their own enjoyment, have at it.

[MirrorMask]

I'm option 3, live and let live, and that motto "your freedom ends where someone else's begins". As long as you're not annoying all the time someone near or behind you, do whatever you want.

I'm an amateur photographer and I actually like to take concert pics. I try to be quick about it - go wild for that moment when there are perfect lights, or when the singer's in a badass pose, and then pull it down. When there's a song that gets me particularly crazy I just go for it and forget to take pics 'cause I'm too taken by the song. I never keep it up all the time, I just wait for the right moment and then I take the pic. I never film unless in very rare occasions. Also I am able to keep concentrated both on the song and on the picture so I never space out or miss out something because I'm concentrated on taking a pic.

[MoraWintersoul]

Hm, it's difficult to say. There's a lot of priceless and precious smartphone recordings I've watched on Youtube since before they were even any good, and a lot of them are taken from positions that other people would find annoying. When a band plays a rare song on tour and no one catches it from up close, I get annoyed.

Here comes the mildly off topic part of the post: I have toyed with the idea of starting to record at least a song or two for my personal archive, and last time I pulled out my phone to do that, two guys who could literally be 6'6" (I am not exaggerating, my brother is 6'2", I know how tall a man usually is) stood in front of me. I was in the first three rows.

Now, I am 5'7". I'm not some shortie person who will just have to accept the limits of my height in GA shows, 5'7" is taller than the average female height in almost all countries, and there's loads of men I'm taller than as well. If I put on a pair of uncomfortable heels, I can approach six feet. I am not saying that everyone over six feet should be relegated to the back, just like I'm not saying all bootleggers and people otherwise recording should be relegated to the back. But I frequently see people being very careful for how long they record, and I don't see Ent-people being aware that literally everyone in a vertical line behind them is being blocked from seeing the band. But no one is calling out the Ent-people like they call out the recorders, so next time I'll just buy a pair of monster platforms and hobble along wet cobbled streets to the venue and be that person 

I'll leave you with some food for thought. In south Europe (and in South America they do this as well), we kinda check our personal comfort at the door and make it a communal experience. The crowd is very fluid, so if someone is REALLY annoying you you'll just move, but otherwise you let things slide because you participate. There's no one annoying guy singing and shouting because you're all singing and shouting, there's no annoying guy blocking your view because he goes off to the pit and then there's crowdsurfers and people climbing on others' shoulders and group choreo and all that stuff, the person recording isn't annoying because you all have the crappiest smartphones and you love to have some memory of the show, taken by someone who has a better one. Every metal show is like that - no calmer ones, no more cerebral ones. Everyone gets something a little different than what they paid for - someone pays to see the band well, someone to record, someone to have a good night out - but you all leave with an amazing experience overall, where some annoyance is trumped by something awesome.

So when I moved to the place where the mentality is "I pay good money to hear and see the band well", but I still can't hear and see well because there's tall af Vikings placed all around the room and the sound is sometimes crappy and sometimes people record and others sing, I get annoyed at the limitations of GA shows and at every little thing. I don't know what the answer is. Maybe I am not cut out for metal shows above the Italo-Swiss border  Not a lot of people here have experienced going to shows like the ones I described - maybe ProgPower is like that. It takes a lot of community spirit to make these shows happen, and it seems to eliminate annoyance at recording.

[Zantera]

I don't mind it that much that some people snap a few pictures from a concert but I've seen people with their phones up filming maybe 80% of a whole concert and it just makes me shake my head in despair. Like how much enjoyment can you get out of experiencing a show like that? On the other hand it's not my problem. Only when it blocks my view i guess.

[cramx3]

I've read lots of people getting really annoyed by this trend, even complaining when others are filming discreetly, saying they should be watching the show properly, rather than through a little screen. But I don't really buy that, you can still film while watching the band directly and it should be up to you how you choose to enjoy yourself at a gig, as long as you do it respectfully.

While I agree that if someone wants to waste their concert experience filming it, that is their right (if allowed by the venue and artist), but there is no way you can enjoy the concert to the fullest when recording it.  Yeah, you can watch, but since you are still concentrating on holding your phone still to get the recording, you are distracted to some extent, and what if you want to rock out and head bang along?  Oops, you can't because you are too busy recording the show instead of enjoying the moment to the fullest.  Like I said, if someone wants to ruin their own enjoyment, have at it.

Well I can certainly say you are wrong, some of my all time favorite concerts were ones I recorded many parts of.  Some of my all time favorite concert moments were captured by myself and in that moment I felt the amazingness that is live music plus the enjoyment of capturing it.  It's actually a bit more than just watching it IMO when you know you are capturing something special.  It's kind of hard to assume the enjoyment of others when you have no idea how anyone but yourself feels too.

One of my favorite parts of my videos and a reason I often get thumbs down and negative comments are because I am often having a really good time while recording.  You can hear me laugh and sing along and while many people hate it, I love it and don't care that it pisses others off in youtube comments because to me, that is 100% proof that I am having the time of my life at some of these shows and enjoying capturing all those moments.

[Stadler]

I err to the side of number 1, with a dollop of number 2 and 3 thrown in for good measure.   Personally, I always snap a couple pics (never video) from the shows I go to, just to document, but I'm literally talking about less than 5 minutes out of a two hour show.   

I also follow the bands lead.  At the Claypool Lennon Delirium, they were fine with photos, they were not fine with video and they had the professional guys up in the front (there was a two foot gap between the stage and the barrier) for the first two songs then they cleared them out).   So I ended up snapping a few early, and putting my phone away when I realized the pro guys were gone. 

If someone is being a douche, though, I have no problem asking them to put their phone up their ass. 

[senecadawg2]

Hm, it's difficult to say. There's a lot of priceless and precious smartphone recordings I've watched on Youtube since before they were even any good, and a lot of them are taken from positions that other people would find annoying. When a band plays a rare song on tour and no one catches it from up close, I get annoyed.

Here comes the mildly off topic part of the post: I have toyed with the idea of starting to record at least a song or two for my personal archive, and last time I pulled out my phone to do that, two guys who could literally be 6'6" (I am not exaggerating, my brother is 6'2", I know how tall a man usually is) stood in front of me. I was in the first three rows.

Now, I am 5'7". I'm not some shortie person who will just have to accept the limits of my height in GA shows, 5'7" is taller than the average female height in almost all countries, and there's loads of men I'm taller than as well. If I put on a pair of uncomfortable heels, I can approach six feet. I am not saying that everyone over six feet should be relegated to the back, just like I'm not saying all bootleggers and people otherwise recording should be relegated to the back. But I frequently see people being very careful for how long they record, and I don't see Ent-people being aware that literally everyone in a vertical line behind them is being blocked from seeing the band. But no one is calling out the Ent-people like they call out the recorders, so next time I'll just buy a pair of monster platforms and hobble along wet cobbled streets to the venue and be that person 

I'll leave you with some food for thought. In south Europe (and in South America they do this as well), we kinda check our personal comfort at the door and make it a communal experience. The crowd is very fluid, so if someone is REALLY annoying you you'll just move, but otherwise you let things slide because you participate. There's no one annoying guy singing and shouting because you're all singing and shouting, there's no annoying guy blocking your view because he goes off to the pit and then there's crowdsurfers and people climbing on others' shoulders and group choreo and all that stuff, the person recording isn't annoying because you all have the crappiest smartphones and you love to have some memory of the show, taken by someone who has a better one. Every metal show is like that - no calmer ones, no more cerebral ones. Everyone gets something a little different than what they paid for - someone pays to see the band well, someone to record, someone to have a good night out - but you all leave with an amazing experience overall, where some annoyance is trumped by something awesome.

So when I moved to the place where the mentality is "I pay good money to hear and see the band well", but I still can't hear and see well because there's tall af Vikings placed all around the room and the sound is sometimes crappy and sometimes people record and others sing, I get annoyed at the limitations of GA shows and at every little thing. I don't know what the answer is. Maybe I am not cut out for metal shows above the Italo-Swiss border  Not a lot of people here have experienced going to shows like the ones I described - maybe ProgPower is like that. It takes a lot of community spirit to make these shows happen, and it seems to eliminate annoyance at recording.

I'm sympathetic to people whose views are blocked by taller concert goers—it's happened several times to me as well—but I don't see why anyone should be calling them out in the same way. If tall people want to position themselves in a way to minimize blockage than that's their choice and it's a really kind thing to do, but that's up to them.

Also, I'm not sure the concerts you're describing are that much different from the ones I've experienced. And in general I think it's great that everyone checks their personal comfort at the door and embraces the communal spirit of the event. But that's also precisely my point—in my experience at least, phones tend to distract from the communal experience rather than enhance it.

[King Postwhore]

I went with 3.  I hate when I'm told I can't take a picture or a short video but I always try to be respectful and not take my phone out a million times.

[Samsara]

I like to take photos and videos at concerts. However, I'm very careful about doing it. When I take pictures, I take them quickly, and get my arms down. I also try to do it during slower songs. Regarding video, I like to record a few songs. But I am ALWAYS cognizant about who is behind and around me, and don't do it if I have to keep my arms way up and block someone.

Overall, I think this whole thing comes down to being courteous, and common sense -- two things that unfortunately many concert-goers lack.

[KevShmev]

Here is the issue I have: I have read too many stories about concerts where fans knew ahead of time per the venue and/or artists not to take any pictures of videos, and many did it anyway.  If you are told that, especially by the artist themselves, and do it anyway, it is just plain rude.  Sorry, but buying a ticket does not give you any right to take a picture or video.  If you don't like it, don't go. 

[senecadawg2]

On that point. The other night at the Warner Theater DT show, there was a guy near me who refused to stop recording after being told at least a dozen times by the usher. On the one hand I felt sorry for her, as she was a smaller, older lady who clearly just wanted to do her job and yet was bullied out of it. But if you're going to ask people to stop recording, you ought to have a plan in action to enforce that.

[MoraWintersoul]

Also, I'm not sure the concerts you're describing are that much different from the ones I've experienced. And in general I think it's great that everyone checks their personal comfort at the door and embraces the communal spirit of the event. But that's also precisely my point—in my experience at least, phones tend to distract from the communal experience rather than enhance it.

If you've experienced stuff like this or Rock in Rio, then I guess you know exactly what I'm talking about it. But the point there isn't not to do things that don't detract from the communal spirit, the point is that everyone is a part of what they like the most (like watching the band from the back or the side, or recording, or moshing), and then everyone is a part of the more communal experiences as well. Loads of things happen there that detract from the experience - there's stretches of minutes where you don't see shit, someone spills their beer, people mosh to power metal - but it is dynamic and fun and in the end you only remember the intensely fun parts.

[JayOctavarium]

Now, I am 5'7". I'm not some shortie person who will just have to accept the limits of my height in GA shows, 5'7" is taller than the average female height in almost all countries, and there's loads of men I'm taller than as well. If I put on a pair of uncomfortable heels, I can approach six feet. I am not saying that everyone over six feet should be relegated to the back, just like I'm not saying all bootleggers and people otherwise recording should be relegated to the back. But I frequently see people being very careful for how long they record, and I don't see Ent-people being aware that literally everyone in a vertical line behind them is being blocked from seeing the band. But no one is calling out the Ent-people like they call out the recorders, so next time I'll just buy a pair of monster platforms and hobble along wet cobbled streets to the venue and be that person 

I'll leave you with some food for thought. In south Europe (and in South America they do this as well), we kinda check our personal comfort at the door and make it a communal experience. The crowd is very fluid, so if someone is REALLY annoying you you'll just move, but otherwise you let things slide because you participate. There's no one annoying guy singing and shouting because you're all singing and shouting, there's no annoying guy blocking your view because he goes off to the pit and then there's crowdsurfers and people climbing on others' shoulders and group choreo and all that stuff, the person recording isn't annoying because you all have the crappiest smartphones and you love to have some memory of the show, taken by someone who has a better one. Every metal show is like that - no calmer ones, no more cerebral ones. Everyone gets something a little different than what they paid for - someone pays to see the band well, someone to record, someone to have a good night out - but you all leave with an amazing experience overall, where some annoyance is trumped by something awesome.

So when I moved to the place where the mentality is "I pay good money to hear and see the band well", but I still can't hear and see well because there's tall af Vikings placed all around the room and the sound is sometimes crappy and sometimes people record and others sing, I get annoyed at the limitations of GA shows and at every little thing. I don't know what the answer is. Maybe I am not cut out for metal shows above the Italo-Swiss border  Not a lot of people here have experienced going to shows like the ones I described - maybe ProgPower is like that. It takes a lot of community spirit to make these shows happen, and it seems to eliminate annoyance at recording.

I've only seen this concert mentality at our local punk and metal shows that I used to frequent. You are part of a family. Doesn't matter what "scene" you were from, what you were wearing, Whether you were recording with your phones, dancing, moshing, or just having a good time. Everyone enjoyed the show their way and left stoked to have experienced whatever show together. I think the only larger show I experienced that at was the first time I saw Black Label Society in 2009. Pretty much every other show has been more about the individuals and less about getting into the show and enjoying it as part of the fanbase / community.

[The Walrus]

At ProgPower I saw an ocean of phones and cameras during almost every set but everyone treated each other like family as well. Yeah there's the occasional douchenozzle who is obnoxious with it (NO, cram, that is certainly not you ) but for the most part it's very easy to get along with others who have different views on recording performers as long as everyone's respectful

[cramx3]

 

Yea, Jay, punk shows kind of have that feel, or at least used.  There's still shows and bands who bring out that community feel.  Definitely felt it at Within Temptation, the random dudes I met there were cool with me filming and even are in it at one moment.

[Lethean]

I went with #3 as well, but also agree with #2.

Hm, it's difficult to say. There's a lot of priceless and precious smartphone recordings I've watched on Youtube since before they were even any good, and a lot of them are taken from positions that other people would find annoying. When a band plays a rare song on tour and no one catches it from up close, I get annoyed.

Here comes the mildly off topic part of the post: I have toyed with the idea of starting to record at least a song or two for my personal archive, and last time I pulled out my phone to do that, two guys who could literally be 6'6" (I am not exaggerating, my brother is 6'2", I know how tall a man usually is) stood in front of me. I was in the first three rows.

Now, I am 5'7". I'm not some shortie person who will just have to accept the limits of my height in GA shows, 5'7" is taller than the average female height in almost all countries, and there's loads of men I'm taller than as well. If I put on a pair of uncomfortable heels, I can approach six feet. I am not saying that everyone over six feet should be relegated to the back, just like I'm not saying all bootleggers and people otherwise recording should be relegated to the back. But I frequently see people being very careful for how long they record, and I don't see Ent-people being aware that literally everyone in a vertical line behind them is being blocked from seeing the band. But no one is calling out the Ent-people like they call out the recorders, so next time I'll just buy a pair of monster platforms and hobble along wet cobbled streets to the venue and be that person 

I'll leave you with some food for thought. In south Europe (and in South America they do this as well), we kinda check our personal comfort at the door and make it a communal experience. The crowd is very fluid, so if someone is REALLY annoying you you'll just move, but otherwise you let things slide because you participate. There's no one annoying guy singing and shouting because you're all singing and shouting, there's no annoying guy blocking your view because he goes off to the pit and then there's crowdsurfers and people climbing on others' shoulders and group choreo and all that stuff, the person recording isn't annoying because you all have the crappiest smartphones and you love to have some memory of the show, taken by someone who has a better one. Every metal show is like that - no calmer ones, no more cerebral ones. Everyone gets something a little different than what they paid for - someone pays to see the band well, someone to record, someone to have a good night out - but you all leave with an amazing experience overall, where some annoyance is trumped by something awesome.

So when I moved to the place where the mentality is "I pay good money to hear and see the band well", but I still can't hear and see well because there's tall af Vikings placed all around the room and the sound is sometimes crappy and sometimes people record and others sing, I get annoyed at the limitations of GA shows and at every little thing. I don't know what the answer is. Maybe I am not cut out for metal shows above the Italo-Swiss border  Not a lot of people here have experienced going to shows like the ones I described - maybe ProgPower is like that. It takes a lot of community spirit to make these shows happen, and it seems to eliminate annoyance at recording.

I'm sympathetic to people whose views are blocked by taller concert goers—it's happened several times to me as well—but I don't see why anyone should be calling them out in the same way. If tall people want to position themselves in a way to minimize blockage than that's their choice and it's a really kind thing to do, but that's up to them.

Agree with the bolded.  Someone who is 6'6" doesn't have a choice in the matter; someone holding their phone over their head the whole night does. 

As for ProgPower, I think it's a great event and definitely has "community spirit" but it's nothing like what you're describing Mora.  But with that - are you sure you aren't looking at it with the positive light of nostalgia as a factor?  I've never been to a show in southern Europe, but have in South America (not Rock in Rio or a large festival like that).  It *is*different and the crowd is louder than other places I've been for sure.  But, I don't think everyone's necessarily happy with everyone doing whatever they want and no one ever gets annoyed by cell phone recordings or people talking too loud.  I've seen post-show discussions on Facebook groups where just like on this forum, people where complaining about smartphones blocking their view, for example.  Whenever you have a large group of people in one place, people are going to get irritated about something, and I think that's normal and OK.  You're probably right that "annoyances are trumped by something awesome" - but I think that happens at most shows in other places too.  A forum like this or a FB group is simply a good place to talk about our experience, and most have here said that they had an awesome experience even if they were annoyed by someone doing x, y, or z. 

[ShadowWalker]

On that point. The other night at the Warner Theater DT show, there was a guy near me who refused to stop recording after being told at least a dozen times by the usher. On the one hand I felt sorry for her, as she was a smaller, older lady who clearly just wanted to do her job and yet was bullied out of it. But if you're going to ask people to stop recording, you ought to have a plan in action to enforce that.

I have been at the Warner Theater where they have enforced it (for Dream Theater, not this show but during the Dramatic Tour of Events). They were quite vigilant about people not recording or snapping pics.

[cramx3]

Funny, I got a facebook memory from 5 years ago of a picture I took of the venue when I saw DT in LA.  That concert was practically ruined at the end by the guy next to me.  I kind of forgot about it until just now, but I've never experienced someone be such a creepy ass.

Essentially near the end of the show, the young couple in front of us started standing.  The two old men next to me were clearly annoyed by it, so the guy took his phone out and stuck it between the girls legs facing up her skirt and started taking pictures.  The couple had no idea, but I was already distracted by these guys getting so mad about them standing that I could clearly see what he was doing.  I put my hand on his arm to remove it from under her.  That made things much worse for me as they threatened to kick my ass and whatever.  Two dudes over 50, seriously.  The couple was in their early 20s or late teens, and I was 29, you two needed to take those pictures and threaten me?  The couple never even knew about this, they enjoyed the concert standing the rest of the encore, and I was flat out miserable sitting down.  My blood was boiling when I left and I left quickly as to not get seen by those two outside the venue.  I also had trouble sleeping that night.  Damn, I totallly forgot about that.  Thanks Facebook. 

I guess no one thought of that type of photography at a DT show 

[senecadawg2]

Also, I'm not sure the concerts you're describing are that much different from the ones I've experienced. And in general I think it's great that everyone checks their personal comfort at the door and embraces the communal spirit of the event. But that's also precisely my point—in my experience at least, phones tend to distract from the communal experience rather than enhance it.

If you've experienced stuff like this or Rock in Rio, then I guess you know exactly what I'm talking about it. But the point there isn't not to do things that don't detract from the communal spirit, the point is that everyone is a part of what they like the most (like watching the band from the back or the side, or recording, or moshing), and then everyone is a part of the more communal experiences as well. Loads of things happen there that detract from the experience - there's stretches of minutes where you don't see shit, someone spills their beer, people mosh to power metal - but it is dynamic and fun and in the end you only remember the intensely fun parts.

I hear what you're saying, but I've never felt that moshing detracted from any concerts I've been to, spilt beer is no big deal to me, and as long as I can move a little bit it's not going to be a problem. One of those is an accident and two are the natural result of many people congregating and enjoying music with their bodies. In fact, I'd like to see more of that, not less. My ideal metal concert involves throngs of people losing their minds in a sort of Dionysian orgy, but that's an awfully difficult thing to record on a cell phone.

Maybe this is a strange place to draw the line and maybe I haven't been clear enough in previous posts, but my issue with phones is only partially due to the fact they might block someones view; I also wonder whether they are having a negative impact on the overall atmosphere and mood of the space. Same as if I go to a party and half of my friends are checking their instagram. It's not like I'm going to round up the phones and be a dick about it, particularly if they're being very mindful of their surroundings (cramx) because ultimately I do think people should have the freedom to do that if they choose, I'm just not a fan of the trend is all.

[bosk1]

Here's a story that left me with mixed feelings.  I was at a club show a few years ago and stakes out a pretty good spot on the floor probably about 20 feet back from stage (maybe a little closer).  I wasn't about to try to get up with the lollipop crew (a story for another day), so this was about as perfect a spot as you could get.  A little while into the show, this dude pushes his way up right in front of me and parks himself there.  I'm 6'1", so something like that usually isn't too much of a problem.  But this dude was about 6'6".  And he was fully reliving the '80s, complete with leather and (here's the relevant part) HUGE hair and a HUGE widebrimmed bolo hat.  So here's the thing as far as I'm concerned--You're THAT tall, and you wanna go to a concert?  Cool.  You wanna dress up like that at a show?  Cool.  You be you, and enjoy the show the way you want to enjoy the show.  But at the same time, you also have to be self-aware and know that that combination makes it IMPOSSIBLE for anyone behind you to see.  So either tone down the above-the-shoulders attire to make it less of an obstruction, or don't plant yourself where you are going to obstruct the view of a significant portion of the crowd. 

That said, I do have to give the guy credit though in this specific circumstance.  He came up to that spot for a couple of songs, and then went back to his spot closer to the back of the venue.  So he was just coming up to get a closer view for a few songs rather than planting himself there and messing up the view for others for the entire show.  So...yeah.

[Indiscipline]

Personally, while I'm happily bumping left and right, singing, drenched in everybody's sweat, beer and excitement, not mentioning completely spellbound by the band's live energy and presence, Johnny Social Media Operator could juggle 25 phones, speak in tongues while farting green pixie dust in front of me and I wouldn't be able to acknowledge his individual existance outside the venue's collective body. But it's just me, I'm not judging.

[bosk1]

farting green pixie dust in front of me

So, um...is this a thing at shows you go to?  Not judging.  Just curious.

[Indiscipline]

It depends on the food stands quality, mostly.

And I absolutely love how you implicitly consider "juggling 25 phones" and "speaking in tongues" plain routine 

[bosk1]

And I absolutely love how you implicitly consider "juggling 25 phones" and "speaking in tongues" plain routine 

I love that you are implicitly saying that maybe it isn't.