Author Topic: Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, France, is burning down.  (Read 843 times)

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Offline XJDenton

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Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, France, is burning down.
« on: April 15, 2019, 01:30:20 PM »
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-47942176

The main spire has already fallen, and it seems like not much will survive. 850 years of history, up in smoke. :(



Offline kingshmegland

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Re: Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, France, is burning down.
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2019, 01:31:27 PM »
Such a shame to see a historic building burn.  Sad, sad day.
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Re: Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, France, is burning down.
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2019, 01:32:20 PM »
mrs.jingle showed that to me a little while ago.  Tragic... simply tragic.
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Offline ProfessorPeart

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Re: Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, France, is burning down.
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2019, 01:32:25 PM »
Been monitoring this since it started. This was always a bucket list place that I wanted to visit. Doesn't look that will ever happen. Such a shame.
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Offline ariich

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Re: Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, France, is burning down.
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2019, 01:34:29 PM »
That's terrible! You just don't expect it to happen to major tourist spots like that.

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Re: Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, France, is burning down.
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2019, 01:39:37 PM »
I'm not terribly religious, though I am spiritual, and having been brought up in the Catholic faith, as I traveled across Europe a lot in the early part of the 21st century, I made it a point to stop in places like that (and the cathedral in Koln) and light a candle.  I'm thankful I did that in Paris back in 2001.  This a stunning and profound event. 

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Re: Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, France, is burning down.
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2019, 01:42:25 PM »
I'm almost in tears and my day is ruined. I love Paris and I love Notre Dame, been thrice there and twice I've visited the church.

It's a devasting cultural and historical loss, and a huge blow to the tourism of Paris which already suffered from political protests every saturday and the general sensation that it's a marked town by terrorists. That terrorists have nothing to do with is just a small and unsignificant consolation, it's a disaster that affects everyone who loves the beauty in mankind's achievements.

It will be rebuilt of course, and one day in the future it will stand exactly as it was. But for now there's only the despair for how much beauty, history and art is going up in smoke.
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Re: Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, France, is burning down.
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2019, 01:45:36 PM »
I've had a live stream working four a couple of hours (which is majorly depressing). I'm not sure we've seen the worst of it yet, honestly.

Looking for silver linings in an otherwise horrendous situation, there actually are a couple. Due to the major renovation going on it's likely they moved a lot of the irreplaceable stuff to safe locations. Also, it's probably one of the most digitized places on Earth. I suspect they'll be able to rebuild much of it with amazing accuracy.
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Re: Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, France, is burning down.
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2019, 01:48:45 PM »
They managed to rebuild a perfect copy of St. Mark's bell tower in Venice, which crumbled down to dust in the early 1900. I'm quite confident that in the 21th century rebuilding Notre Dame exactly as it was will only be a matter of time and funding.
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Offline ChuckSteak

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Re: Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, France, is burning down.
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2019, 01:58:28 PM »
Such a huge attachment to a building. Nothing will last forever.

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Re: Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, France, is burning down.
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2019, 02:00:14 PM »
So once the fire is out, what is the first thing to do? Everything inside that building will either destroyed beyond salvation or will need to be removed for proper cleaning and restoration. I imagine they'd want to get some sort of temporary thing in place to mitigate water damage? Would there even be anything worth saving at that point? Assuming it doesn't melt, the stained glass should be okay for the most part.   

Thinking about how long it's going to take to restore that place makes my head spin. Every square inch of that place is going to need to be cleaned by hand.


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Re: Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, France, is burning down.
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2019, 02:05:49 PM »
Unfathomably tragic.
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, France, is burning down.
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2019, 02:15:04 PM »
Looking for silver linings in an otherwise horrendous situation, there actually are a couple. Due to the major renovation going on it's likely they moved a lot of the irreplaceable stuff to safe locations. Also, it's probably one of the most digitized places on Earth. I suspect they'll be able to rebuild much of it with amazing accuracy.

Good points EB.

Still a very surreal thing to witness....
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Re: Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, France, is burning down.
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2019, 02:23:29 PM »
So once the fire is out, what is the first thing to do? Everything inside that building will either destroyed beyond salvation or will need to be removed for proper cleaning and restoration. I imagine they'd want to get some sort of temporary thing in place to mitigate water damage? Would there even be anything worth saving at that point? Assuming it doesn't melt, the stained glass should be okay for the most part.   

Thinking about how long it's going to take to restore that place makes my head spin. Every square inch of that place is going to need to be cleaned by hand.
Honestly, dude, I don't think there's going to be anything left to clean. Sadly, my hunch is that there's going to be a gutted stone shell and not much else. The stained glass very likely blew out early on. Or fractured when cold water hit it.
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Re: Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, France, is burning down.
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2019, 02:24:18 PM »
This place has little to no meaning to me on a personal level, never been there or anything like that, but damn is it sad to see such a beautiful historic building burn down.  I wonder how it started. 

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Re: Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, France, is burning down.
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2019, 02:25:12 PM »
Does anyone here know exactly what kind of stuff was contained in that cathedral? As old and important as it is I wonder what all was in it. Like EB said, hopefully most of the important stuff was moved, but still... I wonder what kind of priceless historic artifacts are hidden in there.
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Offline TAC

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Re: Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, France, is burning down.
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2019, 02:31:32 PM »
I hope the hunchback got out safely.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Re: Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, France, is burning down.
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2019, 04:04:32 PM »
So once the fire is out, what is the first thing to do? Everything inside that building will either destroyed beyond salvation or will need to be removed for proper cleaning and restoration. I imagine they'd want to get some sort of temporary thing in place to mitigate water damage? Would there even be anything worth saving at that point? Assuming it doesn't melt, the stained glass should be okay for the most part.   

Thinking about how long it's going to take to restore that place makes my head spin. Every square inch of that place is going to need to be cleaned by hand.
Honestly, dude, I don't think there's going to be anything left to clean. Sadly, my hunch is that there's going to be a gutted stone shell and not much else. The stained glass very likely blew out early on. Or fractured when cold water hit it.

Shit. Yeah, I forgot about the whole you put fire out with water thing.

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, France, is burning down.
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2019, 04:35:08 PM »
Damn just sat this: Notre Dame construction began in 1163 and was completed in 1345.
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Re: Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, France, is burning down.
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2019, 05:45:47 PM »
So once the fire is out, what is the first thing to do? Everything inside that building will either destroyed beyond salvation or will need to be removed for proper cleaning and restoration. I imagine they'd want to get some sort of temporary thing in place to mitigate water damage? Would there even be anything worth saving at that point? Assuming it doesn't melt, the stained glass should be okay for the most part.   

Thinking about how long it's going to take to restore that place makes my head spin. Every square inch of that place is going to need to be cleaned by hand.
Honestly, dude, I don't think there's going to be anything left to clean. Sadly, my hunch is that there's going to be a gutted stone shell and not much else. The stained glass very likely blew out early on. Or fractured when cold water hit it.

It's basically a huge pizza oven at that point; that stone doesn't give an inch on heat dissipation, so it's all reflected back into the structure.   That's why it was so hard to fight; you couldn't just waltz in the front door with hoses blowing.  Plus it's on an island (technically) which makes it beautiful but not exactly accessible to equipment. 

Does anyone here know exactly what kind of stuff was contained in that cathedral? As old and important as it is I wonder what all was in it. Like EB said, hopefully most of the important stuff was moved, but still... I wonder what kind of priceless historic artifacts are hidden in there.

Well, with the proviso that El Barto is probably right, that much of the REAL stuff was moved out or protected, you have the stained glass itself, you have what the Catholic Church considers fragments of the cross used in the original crucifixion, one of the nails believed to be used for that crucifixion, as well as fragments of the cross of thorns.  Most churches of that age and stature have significant crypts (the one at Notre Dame allegedly dates from B.C.), art collections (though much of the art from Notre Dame is actually in the Louvre, because of space) and document libraries (though I understand that much of those texts are also off site). 

I was there in 2001, literally days after finding out I was going to be a dad, and I spent a good hour in the church reflecting and I lit a candle.  Forget about "religion", but just as a meeting place, the energy in that place was palpable. An experience I won't soon forget, and as beautiful as that picture is that Chino posted, it still doesn't do it justice.  Those pieces of stained glass are radiant.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2019, 05:51:22 PM by Stadler »

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Re: Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, France, is burning down.
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2019, 05:50:59 PM »
Does anyone here know exactly what kind of stuff was contained in that cathedral? As old and important as it is I wonder what all was in it. Like EB said, hopefully most of the important stuff was moved, but still... I wonder what kind of priceless historic artifacts are hidden in there.

Well, with the proviso that El Barto is probably right, that much of the REAL stuff was moved out or protected, you have the stained glass itself, you have what the Catholic Church considers fragments of the cross used in the original crucifixion, one of the nails believed to be used for that crucifixion, as well as fragments of the cross of thorns.  Most churches of that age and stature have significant crypts (the one at Notre Dame allegedly dates from B.C.), art collections (though much of the art from Notre Dame is actually in the Louvre, because of space) and document libraries (though I understand that much of those texts are also off site).

Whoa. Really?! All of that is fascinating but the bold particularly interest me despite not being religious whatsoever. I'm aware of the crypts of the Vatican but not for Notre Dame. Got my evening reading now... :)
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Re: Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, France, is burning down.
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2019, 06:32:40 PM »
From what I've heard a lot of the relics had been moved for the construction work, and midway through the fire they moved resources from containment to rescue. Stuff that couldn't be moved is very likely toast. Things that could were probably being taken out the whole time.

It hadn't occurred to me until an art historian mentioned it, but all of those vaulted ceilings have to be supported. In this case they're supported by very, very old timber. Above that ornate ceiling was an attic containing a small forest of dry wood. It's actually kind of remarkable that this never happened before.
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Re: Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, France, is burning down.
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2019, 01:34:17 AM »
Saw mentioned on FB some details:

- As previously reported in this thread, the irreplaceable relics were all taken into custody
- During the church's history, the roof had already fallen and had to be repaired / rebuilt
- During the French Revolution and the World Wars the cathedral was damaged and / or looted
- The iconic spire that crumbled down was built in the late 1800 and it's more or less as old as the Tour Eiffel

So, the damage is huge and of course it's right to be sad about it, but.... it's not the end of Notre Dame and the church the way it was until yesterday was by far from being the "original" one. It was renovated in the past, it will again.
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Offline lordxizor

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Re: Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, France, is burning down.
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2019, 06:26:25 AM »
Surprisingly it looks like the structure of the building is pretty much all still intact. It will be a ton of work to rebuild, but it's not as devastating as I was at first fearing.

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Re: Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, France, is burning down.
« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2019, 06:52:11 AM »
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/notre-dame-billionaire-pledges-200-million-euros-a4118781.html

Notre Dame fire fund hits 300 million euros and rising as second billionaire Bernard Arnault offers to pay 200m

I could see that figure reaching 1B very quickly.


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Re: Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, France, is burning down.
« Reply #25 on: April 16, 2019, 08:10:07 AM »
Awful. Absolutely awful.

The good thing is, they were able to save the art and major structure. AND, so many businesses have reached out donating funds, it'll get rebuilt to its former glory pretty quickly.
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Re: Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, France, is burning down.
« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2019, 08:36:57 AM »
This is the only picture I've found that really shows the severity of the whole thing.



Amazingly it seems that the three rose windows survived, as did the organ. They don't build 'em like they used to.
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Re: Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, France, is burning down.
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2019, 08:44:28 AM »
This is a pretty powerful picture


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Re: Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, France, is burning down.
« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2019, 01:09:04 PM »
The damage actually doesn't look all that bad. I was expecting everything inside to be at the very least covered in soot.

https://i.imgur.com/fhQYRY3.gifv

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Re: Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, France, is burning down.
« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2019, 01:11:09 PM »
Pretty amazing how nice it still looks

Offline romdrums

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Re: Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, France, is burning down.
« Reply #30 on: April 16, 2019, 01:36:53 PM »
Indeed. 
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Re: Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, France, is burning down.
« Reply #31 on: April 16, 2019, 01:41:07 PM »
That's pretty remarkable. I can't believe the stained glass remained intact.
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Re: Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, France, is burning down.
« Reply #32 on: April 16, 2019, 07:10:30 PM »
That's pretty remarkable. I can't believe the stained glass remained intact.

Me neither, very surprised.



Someone above mentioned digitizing, and it turns out one of the most detailed digitizations of the cathedral is in the Assassin's Creed Unity game. Score one for the good of video games...

https://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2019/04/16/assassins-creed-unity-notre-dame-fire-restoration/
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Re: Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, France, is burning down.
« Reply #33 on: April 17, 2019, 06:51:35 AM »
That's pretty remarkable. I can't believe the stained glass remained intact.

I find that amazing as well.   

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Re: Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, France, is burning down.
« Reply #34 on: April 18, 2019, 09:06:19 AM »
Tears inducing images, I won't forget that bonfire and the centuries of culture and memories gone up in smoke.

But, and please don't PC jump at my throat because it's just food (albeit rotten) for thought, is it really necessary and mandatory to rebuild it? Would it really lose historical value/charm/relevance as a monument in ruins? Aren't the Colosseum/Akropolis/Sphynx/Pompei majestic cultural and artistic landmarks even though no one bothered to erase the passage of time and historical occurances from them?

In this day and age, what's prevailing between preservation of beauty and preservation of testimony?