Open Letter to the Massive Tool in the Front Row at the Beacon

[cramx3]

we're not at the symphony. It's a rock concert.

I think this is kind of the "problem" whenever this discussion comes up (and it does, every tour).  DT plays music that makes you feel at a rock concert but they present it and maybe even expect the audience to consume it like they would a symphony and I think that causes the conflicts. 

Sure, an obnoxious ass is going to ruin it for anyone, but no ones bitching about people talking, being rowdy, using their cameras at your typical rock concerts but they sure are at a symphony.  The lines get blurred at DT shows it feels.

[Lethean]

we're not at the symphony. It's a rock concert.

I think this is kind of the "problem" whenever this discussion comes up (and it does, every tour).  DT plays music that makes you feel at a rock concert but they present it and maybe even expect the audience to consume it like they would a symphony and I think that causes the conflicts. 

Sure, an obnoxious ass is going to ruin it for anyone, but no ones bitching about people talking, being rowdy, using their cameras at your typical rock concerts but they sure are at a symphony.  The lines get blurred at DT shows it feels.

I dunno... I get what you're saying, but not sure I completely agree.  People complain about cell phones at all kinds of concerts, and it makes sense.  Regardless of who's playing or how heavy the music is, if it's general admission or not,  people still want to see.  Doing it the way you do is no problem. Holding your phone up in the air the whole night is something else.

Maybe you're right that the venues being theaters make some more inclined to sit though.  It doesn't mean the band wants people sitting.  I don't know about all of the members of DT, but I'm pretty sure James prefers people to stand.  JP seems like he does.

Re: talking.  If it's a super loud show the whole time, probably no one will notice or care.  Otherwise it can be super annoying, and it doesn't have to be a symphony.  I remember some guy talking so loud, and constantly, during Vanden Plas'set at ProgPower one year, and it was really distracting and irritating.  Finally someone said that he'd been waiting to see them for so many years and to please be quiet or take it outside. 

[The Walrus]

This thread makes me happy I just go to shows for the show and have only ever had to ask one person to stop filming so much in the front row so I could actually see the band I paid to see

[RoeDent]

This thread makes me happy I don't go to concerts at all. Concerts have people in them, and people in general make my life at best an inconvenience and at worst, plain miserable.

[TheGreatPretender]

There was a guy in front of me who spent the entire show complaining about the sound quality. Now, sure, sound quality is important, and the kick drum did seem too quiet, but this guy just kept turning around the whole time and talking to the guy beside me about how bad the sound was. All through the SFAM set. I mean, I found it to be fairly distracting, but I feel even worse for the guy beside me who had to listen to this dude. I guess he went to see them in Michigan prior, or something, but some of us only get to see DT once per tour, and we want to enjoy the show, not spend the whole time listening to someone bitch about how badly the soundboard guy is doing his job.

[Lonk]

I'm sure we've seen this, but this is what came to mind about it.

[cramx3]

This thread makes me happy I don't go to concerts at all. Concerts have people in them, and people in general make my life at best an inconvenience and at worst, plain miserable.

  this is why I work with computers but concerts seem to be the only place I go to truly feel "alive" if you know what I mean. 

[Evermind]

For me it seems to be a bit of a lottery if I'm trying to get to the first row—it's usually either a great crowd or there are some assholes behind me or nearby. Regardless, the fact that you're so close to the band is rewarding in its own experience. Also, the larger the crowd, apparently the chance the assholes will be in the first/second row grows a lot. Small gigs are much better this way.

The worst place to be is actually a few rows from the scene for me (talking GA, non-seated arrangement). The crowd is usually tall enough so I can't see anything, and if there's a moshpit—and for some reason there is almost always a moshpit, not on DT gigs though, but it happens so often I can't believe it—it's also where it usually begins.

Seated shows though? Totally depends on your luck.

[Madman Shepherd]

After 3 songs Mike came down to us and gave me and my friend a drum stich each saying
- if you stand for the first 3 songs you get treats

Treats?

One drum stick each

Yum...but that seems like it could get messy.

[The Walrus]

Vanilla caramel drumsticks?! I may be seeking those out

[SuperTaco]

Vanilla caramel drumsticks?! I may be seeking those out

They're as good as they sound

[zappafrank2112]

(never mind!)

[DT2003]

I think a good rule of thumb is that if you are filming, your camera should be in front of your face, not held over your head. So what if you can't get the perfect shot.

If you're taking a quick pic or two, by all means, hold it over your head for a few seconds to try to get a good shot. Those few seconds won't ruin my night but if a few seconds turns into a few minutes, we got a problem.

Totally agree. I like to take pictures and videos at shows, but I will always hold my phone in front of my face (or lower) so I’m not disrespectful to those behind me. I don’t post pictures or videos online anywhere, but I like to have them to be able to relive some of the memories. It definitely is annoying though when people hold their phones up above their heads and block the views of those behind them.

[PetFish]

See, this is why I prefer general admission shows. That way FANS get there early and get to the front, A_HOLES get there late and stand at the back, and everyone else slots in depending on how long they're prepared to queue for. Ticketed shows always put real fans behind some turd like the one the OP complained about.

It's great that you can sit here and judge everyone's level of fandom based on how they like to attend a show.

I don't have the energy nor the stamina to do general admission seating so am I automatically not real fan?  I see DT every chance I can, I've done countless fan-related things for them and the community, spent thousands of dollars and hours of my life towards them, but apparently I'm not a real fan?

Does someone who spends extra money to get VIP seats not deserve to have their seats taken over by general admissions who just barge in wherever they want?  Isn't that just as bad as this person the OP is talking about?

Are you really this shallow, selfish, and rude?

TL;DR - This statement of yours is as insulting as it is ridiculous.  Seriously.  Saying only real fans deserve to be at the front via general admission.  FFS

[efx]

See, this is why I prefer general admission shows. That way FANS get there early and get to the front, A_HOLES get there late and stand at the back, and everyone else slots in depending on how long they're prepared to queue for. Ticketed shows always put real fans behind some turd like the one the OP complained about.

It's great that you can sit here and judge everyone's level of fandom based on how they like to attend a show.

I don't have the energy nor the stamina to do general admission seating so am I automatically not real fan?  I see DT every chance I can, I've done countless fan-related things for them and the community, spent thousands of dollars and hours of my life towards them, but apparently I'm not a real fan?

Does someone who spends extra money to get VIP seats not deserve to have their seats taken over by general admissions who just barge in wherever they want?  Isn't that just as bad as this person the OP is talking about?

Are you really this shallow, selfish, and rude?

TL;DR - This statement of yours is as insulting as it is ridiculous.  Seriously.  Saying only real fans deserve to be at the front via general admission.  FFS

Completely agree with you. And to add a "funny" anecdote to that. Back in the day I was part of a group of MP.com users that wanted to make sure we were the first in line for the Roseland Ballroom show in 2000 that was filmed. We got there super early (want to say around 6-7am maybe?) and lo and behold, we were if not the absolute first then amongst the first 5 people in line. Great stuff. After about 12 hours of standing in one spot right before they open the doors this guy with 3 kids in their early teens walk up to the main entrance and through knowing someone on the inside just walks right in and takes the center spots on the front railing. True fans I suppose.

For me, I generally prefer sitting. I go to tons of concerts ever year but I don't do it much for the social aspect so I just want to be able to take in the music. I don't expect at a standing only show to have my personal space respected and there are times when being that up close is cool but in general I prefer sitting. And if there's a choice in tickets and you choose to stand in front of me that is something I don't appreciate and I'm glad at least local venues here are cracking down on that.

[Chino]

See, this is why I prefer general admission shows. That way FANS get there early and get to the front, A_HOLES get there late and stand at the back, and everyone else slots in depending on how long they're prepared to queue for. Ticketed shows always put real fans behind some turd like the one the OP complained about.

Eh. Idk. I've seen DT a dozen times or more and own every live release they've put out. I'd say that I am a "FAN". I hate general admission. I know where I like to be relative to the stage, and I like being able to pick seats that I know are going to be on the aisle. Also, it can be a time crunch trying to make a show after work on a Tuesday. I like knowing that I could get there 5 minutes before the show starts and still get to the spot I want to be.

[cramx3]

I don't have time to stand in line for concerts usually, after work it's a rush to make it on time, I had to leave work early for the NYC show since I knew it would be a wait to get in.  I'm not going to value my fandom vs anyone elses, and while I generally will say the people who do wait in line and get up front are more likely to be the bigger fans of the bands, it doesn't mean a whole to about the people in the back. 

Someone's been trolling my youtube lately claiming I always have shitty seats for concerts, well yea, I don't have the money to buy front row seats or the time to get there super early for 30+ concerts a year.  It means nothing that I am often in the back, although definitely not always (I will be on the floor for Iron Maiden) but you got to pick and choose your battles essentially, my time and money are not limitless and it means nothing abot my fandom ...nor the quality of my videos, since I have an awesome optical zoom on my camera (but thats not the point)

[zappafrank2112]

As a 5 ft male, I hate general admission shows if there isn't a chance for me to get there early enough to make sure I either get right at the stage or a good spot in the balcony. 

If it's a seated show and for whatever reason I'm on the floor, I need to still be pretty close - we're talking just a few rows back, or on an aisle where I can shift into it to see down the line.

If I were a female, only the most assholish of guys wouldn't help me out to make sure I can see better if possible.  But as a dude, I get no respect at all.

So if I'm in a place where seating is the norm (due in part to location, like a seated balcony) and you still insist on acting like you're on the floor in a GA show, I'm gonna raise as much hell as I can to make sure your oblivious ass doesn't ruin *my* experience which is already at high risk of being compromised b/c of something I can't control.

[bosk1]

Makes perfect sense.

[El Barto]

Dude bought his ticket. Dude gets to enjoy, or not enjoy the show as he wishes. Not sure I get the problem here.

I've been to a show where some greasy fuck within 5 seats of me was breaking wind all night. I've been to a show where some idiot marines kept shouting Hooah all night. I've been stuck behind a giant who stood the whole time. It's unfortunate but I've long held the belief that his right to stand is no less than my right to sit. That's the problem with trying to dictate what constitutes "annoying others." We all have our different standards. Filming a show doesn't violate mine, but there are plenty that get all kinds of upset about it. I talk very rarely during a show, and only loud enough to be heard. At the TMB show a couple of weeks ago any time one of us would make a comment about the show the girl in front would turn around and glare at us. Her threshold for noise tolerance was simply lower than ours, which is actually pretty low already.

It was the constant presence of this nonsense that got to me, I'm not a 100% purist on no-phones-whatsoever.

I think this sounds about right, and to be perfectly honest, that's on you. I've been to shows where I've had no problem blocking everything out other than the show. I've been to concerts where I've been constantly distracted, even by trivial things. "Wow, that security dude has the same flashlight I have." I've decided that it's my place to sort through that, and nobody else's.

And I just noticed RobWebster is here. Has he been here all along and I just never noticed? Havebn't seen him here in years.

[RaiseTheKnife]

^^^YUPPP^^^^

[Grizz]

I feel your pain. I had a trio of people in front of me in Wallingford who made it hard for me and my sis to enjoy the show. I know they didn't do it maliciously, but it was still frustrating.

I hope that wasn't me, my dad, and his buds lol

[robwebster]

And I just noticed RobWebster is here. Has he been here all along and I just never noticed? Havebn't seen him here in years.

I come and go. In many ways the real robwebster is the friends you made along the way.