Poll

Metal clash from 1984: Powerslave or Ride the Lightning?

Iron Maiden - Powerslave
45 (51.7%)
Metallica - Ride the Lightning
42 (48.3%)

Total Members Voted: 87

Author Topic: Metal clash from 1984: Powerslave or Ride the Lightning?  (Read 7351 times)

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Offline Indiscipline

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Re: Metal clash from 1984: Powerslave or Ride the Lightning?
« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2019, 03:42:11 PM »
At first thought, Powerslave.

Considering the killer/filler ratios, Powerslave.


Offline wolfking

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Re: Metal clash from 1984: Powerslave or Ride the Lightning?
« Reply #36 on: April 10, 2019, 04:12:29 PM »
Maiden
Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.

Offline nattmorker

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Re: Metal clash from 1984: Powerslave or Ride the Lightning?
« Reply #37 on: April 10, 2019, 04:42:44 PM »
Only filler track is Back in the Village. Everything else is a gem. RtL is great, but let's not kid ourselves and pretend Escape isn't one of the drabbest Metallica cuts of its time.

I've always loved "Escape", one of the first metallica songs I learned on guitar.

Offline pg1067

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Re: Metal clash from 1984: Powerslave or Ride the Lightning?
« Reply #38 on: April 10, 2019, 05:13:40 PM »
@Stadler (and others):  By all means, like it all you want.  I'm just giving people crap.  I went into a lot more detail MANY pages ago in the Maiden thread.  But since becoming a fan, which was relatively VERY late, I've never understood the love for Powerslave as a full album because I clearly feel a VERY steep dropoff in quality between the four top songs and the remaining songs.  I know that I'm actually in the minority on that one, but it is what it is.

I don't know that you are.  While I don't have any basis for saying this, I wouldn't be surprised if 80-90% of all discussion about Powerslave focused on Aces, Midnight, Powerslave and Rime.  I can't say that I have any specific recollection of playing Powerslave for the first time, and I don't know which songs I had heard before buying the album (just looking at Wikipedia, Midnight was released a month before the album, so that's probably the only song I had heard).  Aces is a great album opener, and Midnight follows.  Losfer was something of a novelty as the first instrumental of the Dickinson era, and it's a fine song.  I think the album started to drag with Flash.  Village gets side two off to a terrible start, and then it obviously finishes strong.


Losfer Words > The Call of Ktulu

Opinions and all, but dear lord, no.


I honestly think that Metallica instrumentals (Anesthesia, Ktulu, Orion and To Live Is to Die) are overrated and Iron Maiden instrumentals (Transylvania, Genghis Khan, Losfer Words) are underrated.

1. Ktulu - Epic on every level.

2. Transylvania - Parts of it are as immature as you'd expect from a new band, and other parts are very sophisticated.
3. Orion - Starts well enough, but the slow 3/4 section really drags until the solos.
4. Losfer - A fine effort.
5. Genghis - Ditto.

6. Anasthesia - This one's hard to rank because the start with just Cliff's bass is historically significant, but kinda boring after the novelty has worn off.


7. TLITD - Never been a fan.
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Online El Barto

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Re: Metal clash from 1984: Powerslave or Ride the Lightning?
« Reply #39 on: April 10, 2019, 05:30:24 PM »
I really had no idea Village was so disliked. Always thought it was a cool song. At the same time I always liked Escape, as well. Anyhoo, Powerslave by a mile.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Metal clash from 1984: Powerslave or Ride the Lightning?
« Reply #40 on: April 10, 2019, 05:32:17 PM »
@Stadler (and others):  By all means, like it all you want.  I'm just giving people crap.  I went into a lot more detail MANY pages ago in the Maiden thread.  But since becoming a fan, which was relatively VERY late, I've never understood the love for Powerslave as a full album because I clearly feel a VERY steep dropoff in quality between the four top songs and the remaining songs.  I know that I'm actually in the minority on that one, but it is what it is.

I don't know that you are.  While I don't have any basis for saying this, I wouldn't be surprised if 80-90% of all discussion about Powerslave focused on Aces, Midnight, Powerslave and Rime. 

Fair enough.  I wouldn't really know, outside this board.  I only became a fan around the beginning of 2013.  Yeah, yeah...I know.  If you are bored and in need of some entertaining (to ME) reading, you can follow the early journey here:  https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=35660.0  But anyway, it seems like fans HERE are pretty high on at least some of those songs.  I just think they are all pretty horrible and among Maiden's worst.  Powerslave is such a strange album for me that way.  Again, to me, it has some of their best work, and some of their worst.  I always go back to those songs I like.  But I never listen to the entire album anymore.  :dunno:

I've never disliked Escape, or any other song on RTL.  The album has its fair share of just "good" songs, and that's one of them.  But I consider everything on it good to great.
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Online ProfessorPeart

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Re: Metal clash from 1984: Powerslave or Ride the Lightning?
« Reply #41 on: April 10, 2019, 05:34:44 PM »
I'd normally side with Maiden any day of the week, but in this particular matchup I give the edge to RTL because unlike Powerslave it has no filler.

This pretty much sums up my opinion.
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Offline TAC

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Re: Metal clash from 1984: Powerslave or Ride the Lightning?
« Reply #42 on: April 10, 2019, 05:37:30 PM »
I really had no idea Village was so disliked. Always thought it was a cool song. At the same time I always liked Escape, as well. Anyhoo, Powerslave by a mile.

What's funny about that is that is that when I got these albums back in the day, those were my two first favorite songs from each.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline jjrock88

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Re: Metal clash from 1984: Powerslave or Ride the Lightning?
« Reply #43 on: April 10, 2019, 06:23:25 PM »
Maiden for sure.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Metal clash from 1984: Powerslave or Ride the Lightning?
« Reply #44 on: April 10, 2019, 06:28:36 PM »
I've never heard an Iron Maiden album that's as good as the best 4-5 albums by Metallica, so this was an easy vote.

Offline TAC

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Re: Metal clash from 1984: Powerslave or Ride the Lightning?
« Reply #45 on: April 10, 2019, 06:32:52 PM »
I've never heard an Iron Maiden album

You should.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Metal clash from 1984: Powerslave or Ride the Lightning?
« Reply #46 on: April 10, 2019, 06:38:43 PM »
I've heard all of their so-called great albums, all of which ranged from solid to okay. IMO.  They have some good songs, but I definitely view them as one of those bands not worthy of the hype.

Offline TAC

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Re: Metal clash from 1984: Powerslave or Ride the Lightning?
« Reply #47 on: April 10, 2019, 06:44:08 PM »
Just because they're not for you does not mean they are not worthy of the hype.

Swap Iron Maiden for you and input U2 for me, and we're having the same conversation, but at least I can recognize that U2 deserves the hype they get.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline PowerSlave

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Re: Metal clash from 1984: Powerslave or Ride the Lightning?
« Reply #48 on: April 10, 2019, 10:24:46 PM »
RTL, easily.  Solid album from start to finish.

Rime of the Ancient Mariner is the best song on either album.  Powerslave does have some filler though, that's what makes this a bit closer.

LOTS of filler.  But the rest is so awesome.  I mean, Two Minutes, Powerslave, and Rime are top notch.  Aces High is okay with some very good moments.  But the rest of the album is probably some of the weakest material they've ever done in Bruce's tenure with the band.  VERY inconsistent album.

Honest question, do you rank those songs below No Prayer, or FotD?

I understand why people may not like them considering the greatness of the songs surrounding them, but I still think that they're (for the most part) better than anything off of the last two albums of Bruce's initial run with the band.
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Offline Jaffa

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Re: Metal clash from 1984: Powerslave or Ride the Lightning?
« Reply #49 on: April 10, 2019, 10:57:39 PM »
I mean, they're both probably in my top ten or fifteen albums of all time, and they are my favorite album from each band, so basically nuts to this poll.

But Ride the Lightning probably wins for me. 
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Offline TAC

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Re: Metal clash from 1984: Powerslave or Ride the Lightning?
« Reply #50 on: April 11, 2019, 03:54:15 AM »
RTL, easily.  Solid album from start to finish.

Rime of the Ancient Mariner is the best song on either album.  Powerslave does have some filler though, that's what makes this a bit closer.

LOTS of filler.  But the rest is so awesome.  I mean, Two Minutes, Powerslave, and Rime are top notch.  Aces High is okay with some very good moments.  But the rest of the album is probably some of the weakest material they've ever done in Bruce's tenure with the band.  VERY inconsistent album.

Honest question, do you rank those songs below No Prayer, or FotD?

I understand why people may not like them considering the greatness of the songs surrounding them, but I still think that they're (for the most part) better than anything off of the last two albums of Bruce's initial run with the band.

Personally, I EASILY take FOTD over Powerslave. EASILY.

No Prayer comes in below Powerslave though.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Metal clash from 1984: Powerslave or Ride the Lightning?
« Reply #51 on: April 11, 2019, 06:43:28 AM »
Just because they're not for you does not mean they are not worthy of the hype.

Swap Iron Maiden for you and input U2 for me, and we're having the same conversation, but at least I can recognize that U2 deserves the hype they get.

Okay, but that can be easily explained: U2 is great; Iron Maiden is not.

End of story. :tup :tup

Offline WildRanger

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Re: Metal clash from 1984: Powerslave or Ride the Lightning?
« Reply #52 on: April 11, 2019, 07:05:35 AM »
Just because they're not for you does not mean they are not worthy of the hype.

Swap Iron Maiden for you and input U2 for me, and we're having the same conversation, but at least I can recognize that U2 deserves the hype they get.

Okay, but that can be easily explained: U2 is great; Iron Maiden is not.

End of story. :tup :tup

OK. But you can't deny that Metallica guys are technically inferior musicians than guys in Maiden? Ulrich looks like an amateur compared to either Burr or McBrain and Hammett/Hetfield are much inferior guitar players than a Maiden guitar duo(Murray & Smith)? Serious argument could be made about bassists(who is better: Steve or Cliff). And vocally Dickinson puts Hetfield to shame. I think there is a general consesus that Iron Maiden is more talented than Metallica.




Offline TAC

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Re: Metal clash from 1984: Powerslave or Ride the Lightning?
« Reply #53 on: April 11, 2019, 07:10:34 AM »
Just because they're not for you does not mean they are not worthy of the hype.

Swap Iron Maiden for you and input U2 for me, and we're having the same conversation, but at least I can recognize that U2 deserves the hype they get.

Okay, but that can be easily explained: U2 is great; Iron Maiden is not.

End of story. :tup :tup

Kev, you know way too much about music to make such a ridiculous claim.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline The Walrus

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Re: Metal clash from 1984: Powerslave or Ride the Lightning?
« Reply #54 on: April 11, 2019, 07:12:05 AM »
Iron Maiden might be better musicians, and I love 'em to death, but they don't have one single song in their catalog that sounds like Where The Streets Have No Name, and say what you want about U2 or that song, that song has a vibe Iron Maiden can only dream of replicating. Who cares who's more talented.
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Metal clash from 1984: Powerslave or Ride the Lightning?
« Reply #55 on: April 11, 2019, 07:20:06 AM »
Why would Iron Maiden want to replicate the vibe of Where the Streets have No Name? they're different bands. U2 never had a 18 minutes piano-driven epic ballad, why would they even want to do that? Metallica has no catchy song like Livin' on a Prayer in their catalogue (even though one could argue in favor of Enter Sandman but that's quite heavy), why should they care?
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Offline WildRanger

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Re: Metal clash from 1984: Powerslave or Ride the Lightning?
« Reply #56 on: April 11, 2019, 07:22:17 AM »
Iron Maiden might be better musicians, and I love 'em to death, but they don't have one single song in their catalog that sounds like Where The Streets Have No Name, and say what you want about U2 or that song, that song has a vibe Iron Maiden can only dream of replicating. Who cares who's more talented.

I was not comparing U2 with Maiden, but Metallica with Maiden. Maiden and U2 are totally dissimilar and incomparable.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Metal clash from 1984: Powerslave or Ride the Lightning?
« Reply #57 on: April 11, 2019, 07:22:23 AM »
I've heard all of their so-called great albums, all of which ranged from solid to okay. IMO.  They have some good songs, but I definitely view them as one of those bands not worthy of the hype.

Not quite exactly, since I I think Metallica is better than "not worthy of the hype", but I'm on the opposite side of this.  I don't think Metallica's albums hold a candle to Maiden's. 


Offline The Walrus

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Re: Metal clash from 1984: Powerslave or Ride the Lightning?
« Reply #58 on: April 11, 2019, 07:23:38 AM »
Why would Iron Maiden want to replicate the vibe of Where the Streets have No Name? they're different bands. U2 never had a 18 minutes piano-driven epic ballad, why would they even want to do that? Metallica has no catchy song like Livin' on a Prayer in their catalogue (even though one could argue in favor of Enter Sandman but that's quite heavy), why should they care?

Respectfully, that's partially the point I'm making. They're two completely different bands, talking about who's more 'talented' is pointless, they both offer completely different vibes and soundscapes. (EDIT: And respectfully, you're missing the larger point, after reading your second comment - I will take Maiden absolutely any day of the year over U2, and yet they don't have one song in their catalog that scratches the itch for a song like WTSHNN. That's my point. They can be talented as all get out but that doesn't mean U2 doesn't offer something Maiden can't. :) )
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Offline pg1067

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Re: Metal clash from 1984: Powerslave or Ride the Lightning?
« Reply #59 on: April 11, 2019, 11:03:48 AM »
OK. But you can't deny that Metallica guys are technically inferior musicians than guys in Maiden? Ulrich looks like an amateur compared to either Burr or McBrain and Hammett/Hetfield are much inferior guitar players than a Maiden guitar duo(Murray & Smith)? Serious argument could be made about bassists(who is better: Steve or Cliff). And vocally Dickinson puts Hetfield to shame. I think there is a general consesus that Iron Maiden is more talented than Metallica.

Let me preface this by saying that I'm only taking into account Metallica's output through the Black Album and Maiden's output through Fear of the Dark.  While I have a couple of the "reunion era" Maiden albums, I haven't listened to them much.

You stuck a question mark at the end of the highlighted sentence, but it isn't phrased as a question.  I certainly can deny that and will do so.

In the late 80s and early 90s, Kirk Hammett was one of the most highly acclaimed guitar players in the world.  He turned up in a number of articles/discussions alongside guys like Satriani and Vai.  He was far more acclaimed than Murray and/or Smith.

Similarly, Hetfield has always been regarded as one of the best rhythm guitar players in metal.  There's no analog to Hetfield in Metallica, but as mentioned above, Murray and Smith never got much run as technical players, so it's certainly the case that Hetfield was a more highly regarded rhythm player than Murray and/or Smith.

In terms of bass, Jason Newsted was never held in much regard.  In part, that's because the bass was inaudible on AJFA, but there was nothing exceptional about his playing on either AJFA or the Black Album.  Steve Harris, on the other hand, is one of the most highly regarded bass players in all of metal.  The wildcard here is Cliff Burton.  The bass on KEA, RTL and MOP is more audible than on AJFA or TBA, but it's still tough to hear on a lot of songs.  It also generally doubles the rhythm guitar.  However, Cliff is held in fairly high regard as a musician.  In part, I think this is akin to Randy Rhoads and isn't entirely deserved -- especially because the discography is so sparse.  At the end of the day, I think it would be hard not give Harris the win here.

That brings us to drums.  I, for one, have never understood the whole "Lars is crap" mindset.  Back in the day, I always thought he was pretty good.  In retrospect, I'd say he's good but not great -- which is pretty much how I've always thought of Nicko McBrain.  He's good, but he's nothing special and certainly not any sort of technical wizard.  I'd call this one a tie (and I'm not factoring in Clive Burr as having added anything in terms of technical skill beyond what Nicko does).

Finally, vocals.  I think Bruce is widely regarded as one of the best singers in the history of metal.  James not so much, but his repertoire is far more diverse than Bruce's, and, as a "thrash" singer, he was excellent.

Overall, in terms of technical skill, I would say it's extremely close (at least for the era when both bands were most successful).
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Metal clash from 1984: Powerslave or Ride the Lightning?
« Reply #60 on: April 11, 2019, 12:08:01 PM »
^Absolutely that.  Any claim that Metallica are technically inferior musicians than Maiden is just laughable and cannot be taken seriously. 
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Offline Indiscipline

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Re: Metal clash from 1984: Powerslave or Ride the Lightning?
« Reply #61 on: April 11, 2019, 12:26:51 PM »
Overall, in terms of technical skill, I would say it's extremely close (at least for the era when both bands were most successful).

Full agreement. And just for kicks - since I can't fathom why technical proficiency should determine which band/album is better anyways - I can remember teenage me around 1990 thinking Metallica was (with Megadeth) the most "technical" heavy metal act on the market (and still enjoying Maiden a little bit more). Thinking about it, I could sloppily play the whole Piece of Mind, but fock me if I could play through the whole Justice.

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Re: Metal clash from 1984: Powerslave or Ride the Lightning?
« Reply #62 on: April 11, 2019, 12:32:25 PM »
Yea, this discussion got real silly

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Re: Metal clash from 1984: Powerslave or Ride the Lightning?
« Reply #63 on: April 11, 2019, 12:34:55 PM »
Then don't take me seriously.  IM is better technically.  In high school, no one talked about  Kirk Hammett being one of the most highly acclaimed guitar players in the world.  Cliff though was all the buzz.  Nicko puts Lars to shame.


That being said, the impact and popularity was much larger in the US for Metallica.  No doubt. I remember the anticipation for the "One" video. 


Both bands should have the tip of the hat for the longevity and their popularity to this day.  Not many band can have that career and say that.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Metal clash from 1984: Powerslave or Ride the Lightning?
« Reply #64 on: April 11, 2019, 01:32:51 PM »
OK. But you can't deny that Metallica guys are technically inferior musicians than guys in Maiden? Ulrich looks like an amateur compared to either Burr or McBrain and Hammett/Hetfield are much inferior guitar players than a Maiden guitar duo(Murray & Smith)? Serious argument could be made about bassists(who is better: Steve or Cliff). And vocally Dickinson puts Hetfield to shame. I think there is a general consesus that Iron Maiden is more talented than Metallica.

Let me preface this by saying that I'm only taking into account Metallica's output through the Black Album and Maiden's output through Fear of the Dark.  While I have a couple of the "reunion era" Maiden albums, I haven't listened to them much.

You stuck a question mark at the end of the highlighted sentence, but it isn't phrased as a question.  I certainly can deny that and will do so.

In the late 80s and early 90s, Kirk Hammett was one of the most highly acclaimed guitar players in the world.  He turned up in a number of articles/discussions alongside guys like Satriani and Vai.  He was far more acclaimed than Murray and/or Smith.

Similarly, Hetfield has always been regarded as one of the best rhythm guitar players in metal.  There's no analog to Hetfield in Metallica, but as mentioned above, Murray and Smith never got much run as technical players, so it's certainly the case that Hetfield was a more highly regarded rhythm player than Murray and/or Smith.

In terms of bass, Jason Newsted was never held in much regard.  In part, that's because the bass was inaudible on AJFA, but there was nothing exceptional about his playing on either AJFA or the Black Album.  Steve Harris, on the other hand, is one of the most highly regarded bass players in all of metal.  The wildcard here is Cliff Burton.  The bass on KEA, RTL and MOP is more audible than on AJFA or TBA, but it's still tough to hear on a lot of songs.  It also generally doubles the rhythm guitar.  However, Cliff is held in fairly high regard as a musician.  In part, I think this is akin to Randy Rhoads and isn't entirely deserved -- especially because the discography is so sparse.  At the end of the day, I think it would be hard not give Harris the win here.

That brings us to drums.  I, for one, have never understood the whole "Lars is crap" mindset.  Back in the day, I always thought he was pretty good.  In retrospect, I'd say he's good but not great -- which is pretty much how I've always thought of Nicko McBrain.  He's good, but he's nothing special and certainly not any sort of technical wizard.  I'd call this one a tie (and I'm not factoring in Clive Burr as having added anything in terms of technical skill beyond what Nicko does).

Finally, vocals.  I think Bruce is widely regarded as one of the best singers in the history of metal.  James not so much, but his repertoire is far more diverse than Bruce's, and, as a "thrash" singer, he was excellent.

Overall, in terms of technical skill, I would say it's extremely close (at least for the era when both bands were most successful).

Well, I don't disagree with much of this, but what I do disagree with is vehement.  To the point of apoplexy.  :)

- I think you're overselling Hammett.   He was often cited as having STUDIED with Satch, but in my view - as someone who religiously read guitar magazines for the tablature - that was more to tell you who SATCH was, than Hammett.   
- You are, in my opinion, SEVERELY underselling Nicko McBrain.   He's not the star of the show; he's not even the second-billed on the marquee, but he is more than "nothing special".   (Though I agree that the "Lars is crap" is bullshit).
- I'm a Hetfield fanboy, but there is no standard by which Hetfield's vocal repertoire is "more diverse" than Dickinson's.  Have you heard the clip of Dickinson in the chapel with Ian Anderson singing "Jerusalem"?   Bruce isn't just a great "metal singer", he's a great singer, period, and while I love Hetfield, and think he's probably the only man that could do what he does in the band that is Metallica, I think even he would defer to Bruce. 

Offline pg1067

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Re: Metal clash from 1984: Powerslave or Ride the Lightning?
« Reply #65 on: April 11, 2019, 01:50:01 PM »
In high school, no one talked about  Kirk Hammett being one of the most highly acclaimed guitar players in the world.  Cliff though was all the buzz.

I don't know where you went to high school, but your profile tells me you're the same age I am (class of 1985).  Metallica had released only KEA and RTL by the time I graduated, and very few people at my school knew who Metallica was.  The accolades lumped on Kirk came during the second half of the decade, and Cliff got almost no run until after he died.


- I'm a Hetfield fanboy, but there is no standard by which Hetfield's vocal repertoire is "more diverse" than Dickinson's.  Have you heard the clip of Dickinson in the chapel with Ian Anderson singing "Jerusalem"?   Bruce isn't just a great "metal singer", he's a great singer, period, and while I love Hetfield, and think he's probably the only man that could do what he does in the band that is Metallica, I think even he would defer to Bruce. 

I'm only taking into account their output with their bands.  Bruce is unquestionably a more classically proper singer, but I don't think that's either here or there.  Honestly, they're too different to compare.
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Online King Postwhore

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Re: Metal clash from 1984: Powerslave or Ride the Lightning?
« Reply #66 on: April 11, 2019, 02:00:29 PM »
MOP was all the talk at our HS.  Most of the heads (Remember that term?) loved Cliff's playing.  It was like a titlewave at school with everyone wearing their concert tees.

I played it off as they were just ok because i thought I would be the music rebel.  Oh youth.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Metal clash from 1984: Powerslave or Ride the Lightning?
« Reply #67 on: April 11, 2019, 02:09:38 PM »
Most of the heads (Remember that term?)

No.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Metal clash from 1984: Powerslave or Ride the Lightning?
« Reply #68 on: April 11, 2019, 02:12:43 PM »
Exact same age, and at the time in my high school, Metallica and REM were the exact same band but in different cliques.  We called them "hoods", not "heads", but they were the Metallica fans (and the nerds were the REM fans).   They weren't idolized, they weren't mocked, they were just somewhere in between.  But on Monday, when everyone talked about the concerts they went to, it was the Maidens, the Ozzys, the Van Halens, the Rushs of the world that got all the play.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Metal clash from 1984: Powerslave or Ride the Lightning?
« Reply #69 on: April 11, 2019, 03:18:57 PM »
Ride the Lightning
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