Metal clash from 1984: Powerslave or Ride the Lightning?

[Zook]

Ride the Lightning is in my top 5 favorite albums. Powerslave has the amazing Rime of the Ancient Mariner and a couple other good songs.

[Stadler]

It's interesting how is a one-hit album AJFA (One) such a huge seller in the US. It has sold over 8 million copies, it has outsold both previous Metallica records Master and Ride (both 6 Platinum) and it has outsold entire 80's Iron Maiden and Judas Priest discography. It's the second best-selling metal album in America, behind the Black album. It seems there is a very big number of American non-metal fans who bought that album.

I'm clearly in the Maiden camp here, and wasn't at all on the Metallica train back then, but I was at Uconn when AJFA came out, and my roommate went and slept out in front of the campus record store, and there was a group of people that did the same.   I can't speak to why that was - post-Cliff? - but it was a "thing" for some people.

[pg1067]

It's interesting how is a one-hit album AJFA (One) such a huge seller in the US. It has sold over 8 million copies, it has outsold both previous Metallica records Master and Ride (both 6 Platinum) and it has outsold entire 80's Iron Maiden and Judas Priest discography. It's the second best-selling metal album in America, behind the Black album. It seems there is a very big number of American non-metal fans who bought that album.

I'm clearly in the Maiden camp here, and wasn't at all on the Metallica train back then, but I was at Uconn when AJFA came out, and my roommate went and slept out in front of the campus record store, and there was a group of people that did the same.   I can't speak to why that was - post-Cliff? - but it was a "thing" for some people.

Referring to AJFA as a "one-hit album" is fair, but only as far as the general public goes, and it's hardly the first time that a single "hit" has propelled an album to massive sales (and the fact that Metallica made a video didn't hurt).  By the time AJFA was released, the public was ready for something a little heavier.  Think about how truly heavy Whitesnake's "Still of the Night" was, and that was a monster song.  However, I'd wager to say that a lot of those copies of AJFA haven't been played in 20+ years and that "One" probably got 95+% of the play time.

[WildRanger]

OK. But you can't deny that Metallica guys are technically inferior musicians than guys in Maiden? Ulrich looks like an amateur compared to either Burr or McBrain and Hammett/Hetfield are much inferior guitar players than a Maiden guitar duo(Murray & Smith)? Serious argument could be made about bassists(who is better: Steve or Cliff). And vocally Dickinson puts Hetfield to shame. I think there is a general consesus that Iron Maiden is more talented than Metallica.

Let me preface this by saying that I'm only taking into account Metallica's output through the Black Album and Maiden's output through Fear of the Dark.  While I have a couple of the "reunion era" Maiden albums, I haven't listened to them much.

You stuck a question mark at the end of the highlighted sentence, but it isn't phrased as a question.  I certainly can deny that and will do so.

In the late 80s and early 90s, Kirk Hammett was one of the most highly acclaimed guitar players in the world.  He turned up in a number of articles/discussions alongside guys like Satriani and Vai.  He was far more acclaimed than Murray and/or Smith.

Similarly, Hetfield has always been regarded as one of the best rhythm guitar players in metal.  There's no analog to Hetfield in Metallica, but as mentioned above, Murray and Smith never got much run as technical players, so it's certainly the case that Hetfield was a more highly regarded rhythm player than Murray and/or Smith.

In terms of bass, Jason Newsted was never held in much regard.  In part, that's because the bass was inaudible on AJFA, but there was nothing exceptional about his playing on either AJFA or the Black Album.  Steve Harris, on the other hand, is one of the most highly regarded bass players in all of metal.  The wildcard here is Cliff Burton.  The bass on KEA, RTL and MOP is more audible than on AJFA or TBA, but it's still tough to hear on a lot of songs.  It also generally doubles the rhythm guitar.  However, Cliff is held in fairly high regard as a musician.  In part, I think this is akin to Randy Rhoads and isn't entirely deserved -- especially because the discography is so sparse.  At the end of the day, I think it would be hard not give Harris the win here.

That brings us to drums.  I, for one, have never understood the whole "Lars is crap" mindset.  Back in the day, I always thought he was pretty good.  In retrospect, I'd say he's good but not great -- which is pretty much how I've always thought of Nicko McBrain.  He's good, but he's nothing special and certainly not any sort of technical wizard.  I'd call this one a tie (and I'm not factoring in Clive Burr as having added anything in terms of technical skill beyond what Nicko does).

Finally, vocals.  I think Bruce is widely regarded as one of the best singers in the history of metal.  James not so much, but his repertoire is far more diverse than Bruce's, and, as a "thrash" singer, he was excellent.

Overall, in terms of technical skill, I would say it's extremely close (at least for the era when both bands were most successful).

- I think you're overselling Hammett.   He was often cited as having STUDIED with Satch, but in my view - as someone who religiously read guitar magazines for the tablature - that was more to tell you who SATCH was, than Hammett.   
- You are, in my opinion, SEVERELY underselling Nicko McBrain.   He's not the star of the show; he's not even the second-billed on the marquee, but he is more than "nothing special".   (Though I agree that the "Lars is crap" is bullshit).

- Hammett is using wah-wah pedal too much during playing, unlike Murray. People often criticize him for that.
- Nicko is better than average for sure (and much better than Lars), but I think Clive Burr was a superior Maiden drummer than him. Clive doesn't get enough recognition as a drummer.

[Stadler]

I'l give you underrated but as much as I love Burr, I don't think Maiden is where they are today without Nicko McBrain.  It's chemistry as much as it's playing, and right now, Maiden has almost the perfect lockerroom for a band.

[pg1067]

- Hammett is using wah-wah pedal too much during playing, unlike Murray. People often criticize him for that.

Is using -- as in now, in 2019?  I have no idea if that is or isn't true.

I do recall thinking sometime after the Black Album came out that Hammett was using the wah pedal a bit much.  Regardless, that's a stylistic quibble that has nothing at all to do with the several months old debate that you quoted about whether the members of Metallica are/were "technically inferior musicians than the guys in Maiden."

Nicko is better than average for sure (and much better than Lars), but I think Clive Burr was a superior Maiden drummer than him. Clive doesn't get enough recognition as a drummer.

I stand by what I wrote previously about the technical skill of the three guys mentioned.  As far as Burr not getting "enough recognition," I'd say he gets about what he deserves.  He quit or was fired (don't remember which), so there's none of the death mystique that attaches to Cliff Burton and Randy Rhoads.  Also, and while I'm not saying anything negative about him, I can't think of a single thing he did in his 115 minutes of recorded output with Maiden (plus a handful of B-sides) that I would regard as truly exceptional.

[Stadler]

Fired.  Following the US tour for Number.  (Nicko had filled in a couple dates on that tour when Clive had to go home for his father's funeral, but it's unclear what those dates were.)

[TAC]

Fired.  Following the US tour for Number.  (Nicko had filled in a couple dates on that tour when Clive had to go home for his father's funeral, but it's unclear what those dates were.)

This is actually a big mystery. There's a whole thread on the Maidenfans forum trying to figure out which dates they were.

[pg1067]

This is actually a big mystery.

[TAC]

They would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids.

[pg1067]

They would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids.

 

[Elite]

The fact that I had to look up half the tracklist of Powerslave tells me I made the right choice voting for the Metallica album.

[Volante99]

Both great, legendary albums but I gotta go with Powerslave.

Powerslave represents a band at its peak, on top of its game and arguably the best metal band in the world at that time. RtL represents a band just on the cusp of greatness only a couple years away from dethroning the former as the best metal band in the world.


That said, many people I know have said RtL is the greatest thing Metallica has ever done.

[Stadler]

The fact that I had to look up half the tracklist of Powerslave tells me I made the right choice voting for the Metallica album.

The fact that I had to look up ALL the tracklist on Ride The Lightning tells me I made the right choice voting for the Maiden album.

[Lowdz]

That chorus on Flashof the Blade is just awesome though.

I’ve only heard RTL once so Powerslave it is, by a mile or two.