Author Topic: College Admissions Scandal  (Read 2055 times)

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Online El Barto

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College Admissions Scandal
« on: April 10, 2019, 08:47:43 AM »
I'm really baffled by this whole thing. They're actually looking to put people in prison over this. Does the fact that rich people can buy their kids' ways into elite colleges really surprise anybody? This has been going on for ages, and while I suppose people do care, I kind of assumed we're all pretty much over it now. The only thing I can find that makes Huffman and Loughlin different is that they used the backdoor to get their kids in, rather than the upfront Thornton Mellon approach, "so what kind of building you do you guys need?"

Does anybody really think a couple of Hollywood actresses deserve to go to the big home for this, when so many billionaires do it so regularly that it's common knowledge?
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Offline bosk1

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Re: College Admissions Scandal
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2019, 08:55:00 AM »
Does anybody really think a couple of Hollywood actresses deserve to go to the big home for this, when so many billionaires do it so regularly that it's common knowledge?

Why not?  Just because other people get away with it?  That's a pretty poor rationale for nonenforcement, isn't it?
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Online El Barto

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Re: College Admissions Scandal
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2019, 09:07:54 AM »
Does anybody really think a couple of Hollywood actresses deserve to go to the big home for this, when so many billionaires do it so regularly that it's common knowledge?

Why not?  Just because other people get away with it?  That's a pretty poor rationale for nonenforcement, isn't it?
Yes, it is. But it's a pretty good reason to think they're getting the shaft.
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Re: College Admissions Scandal
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2019, 09:10:38 AM »
The only thing I can find that makes Huffman and Loughlin different is that they used the backdoor to get their kids in, rather than the upfront Thornton Mellon approach, "so what kind of building you do you guys need?"

Does anybody really think a couple of Hollywood actresses deserve to go to the big home for this, when so many billionaires do it so regularly that it's common knowledge?

Because they weren't honest about it.  The money didn't go to the funding or betterment of the schools.  It went into some individual's pockets.  It would be different if the parents were honest and made a charitable donation and helped the school financially.  If there's a quid-pro-quo thing with their kids involved with the donation, so be it.

Online TAC

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Re: College Admissions Scandal
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2019, 09:21:28 AM »
I'm really baffled by this whole thing. They're actually looking to put people in prison over this. Does the fact that rich people can buy their kids' ways into elite colleges really surprise anybody? This has been going on for ages, and while I suppose people do care, I kind of assumed we're all pretty much over it now. The only thing I can find that makes Huffman and Loughlin different is that they used the backdoor to get their kids in, rather than the upfront Thornton Mellon approach, "so what kind of building you do you guys need?"

Does anybody really think a couple of Hollywood actresses deserve to go to the big home for this, when so many billionaires do it so regularly that it's common knowledge?


I mean, did they break a law? If they did, then there's consequences.

As you say, you'd think there was an up front way to buy (donate) your way in, but it seems they participated in a scheme of fraud and cheating.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline cramx3

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Re: College Admissions Scandal
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2019, 09:25:42 AM »
The money went a lot of places including having other kids take the SATs.  The scam is deep and I think prison time is pretty harsh, but I am not going to complain about it.  They also essentially robbed a deserving kid out of a chance to go to these schools.  That's who got hurt the most here.  None of this is surprising, but since this is the biggest and latest of this type of scandal I'm not against making an example.

Offline bosk1

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Re: College Admissions Scandal
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2019, 09:27:26 AM »
Does anybody really think a couple of Hollywood actresses deserve to go to the big home for this, when so many billionaires do it so regularly that it's common knowledge?

Why not?  Just because other people get away with it?  That's a pretty poor rationale for nonenforcement, isn't it?
Yes, it is. But it's a pretty good reason to think they're getting the shaft.
Okay, that's fair.
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Re: College Admissions Scandal
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2019, 09:30:57 AM »
I think there is a moral outrage in America right now and we respond to how loud it is.  Yes they should pay for breaking the law but it sounds like they murdered someone.  Stick your finger in the wind to feel the moral outrage and then punish accordingly.
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Offline Lonk

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Re: College Admissions Scandal
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2019, 09:47:31 AM »
With the way things are today, where information travels very quickly and is a lot more available than before, I think this is more about a group of powerful people covering their behinds and using this situation as an example.
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Online El Barto

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Re: College Admissions Scandal
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2019, 09:58:05 AM »
The money went a lot of places including having other kids take the SATs.  The scam is deep and I think prison time is pretty harsh, but I am not going to complain about it.  They also essentially robbed a deserving kid out of a chance to go to these schools.  That's who got hurt the most here.  None of this is surprising, but since this is the biggest and latest of this type of scandal I'm not against making an example.
And I get that, and it's part of the reason I see outrage here. At the same time they're no less robbed of a slot by some rich politician paying up front to get his kid in. In a way I'd rather have the kids who at least had the initiative to use a creative backdoor to get in than the slimeball who's dad bought his way into Skull and Bones in the furtherance of his future political career. 

As you say, you'd think there was an up front way to buy (donate) your way in, but it seems they participated in a scheme of fraud and cheating.
Part of what bugs me is that there's an upfront way to do it if you're super-duper rich. A former sitcom actress can't afford to donate a new football stadium or a planetarium or some shit. It just seems to me that we've got three groups of people. The honest who get in on merit, the super-duper rich who buy their way in, and the slightly rich who pay the guy to hold the back door open. It's the moderately rich group that we're pissed off at right now.

And something I'd want to know about the super-duper rich is if the university just admits "yeah, he got a 460 on his SATs, but we're taking him anyway," or if they pull the same stunt with having somebody taking the tests for them. Or offering him a bogus scholarship.
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Online pg1067

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Re: College Admissions Scandal
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2019, 10:01:32 AM »
I'm really baffled by this whole thing. They're actually looking to put people in prison over this. Does the fact that rich people can buy their kids' ways into elite colleges really surprise anybody? This has been going on for ages, and while I suppose people do care, I kind of assumed we're all pretty much over it now. The only thing I can find that makes Huffman and Loughlin different is that they used the backdoor to get their kids in, rather than the upfront Thornton Mellon approach, "so what kind of building you do you guys need?"

Does anybody really think a couple of Hollywood actresses deserve to go to the big home for this, when so many billionaires do it so regularly that it's common knowledge?

The part I highlighted is exactly the point.  I don't know who Thornton Mellon is, but the "what kind of building do you need" is simply a charitable contribution.  What Huffman and Loughlin did is fraud.  It's as simple as that.  The only thing I find baffling is why Bill Macy isn't also facing charges (I'm sure I could get the answer to that if I cared enough to research it).
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Offline cramx3

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Re: College Admissions Scandal
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2019, 10:04:54 AM »
The money went a lot of places including having other kids take the SATs.  The scam is deep and I think prison time is pretty harsh, but I am not going to complain about it.  They also essentially robbed a deserving kid out of a chance to go to these schools.  That's who got hurt the most here.  None of this is surprising, but since this is the biggest and latest of this type of scandal I'm not against making an example.
And I get that, and it's part of the reason I see outrage here. At the same time they're no less robbed of a slot by some rich politician paying up front to get his kid in. In a way I'd rather have the kids who at least had the initiative to use a creative backdoor to get in than the slimeball who's dad bought his way into Skull and Bones in the furtherance of his future political career. 

So you'd rather them cheat the system further?  And sure, the front door method doesn't make it "better" but the university gets something out of it at least, where as this method you cheat the school, you cheat the college athletic system, you cheat the SATs, you cheat the IRS, you cheat the kid who is doing it the right way, and you think they should get brownie points?  If they cheated in a way that caused less harm I'd agree with you, but this level of scam and freud is deep.  I think jail time is a lot of things that just come down to money, but it's hard to argue against the rare time a celebrity gets treated like a normal citizen

Online El Barto

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Re: College Admissions Scandal
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2019, 10:16:04 AM »
The money went a lot of places including having other kids take the SATs.  The scam is deep and I think prison time is pretty harsh, but I am not going to complain about it.  They also essentially robbed a deserving kid out of a chance to go to these schools.  That's who got hurt the most here.  None of this is surprising, but since this is the biggest and latest of this type of scandal I'm not against making an example.
And I get that, and it's part of the reason I see outrage here. At the same time they're no less robbed of a slot by some rich politician paying up front to get his kid in. In a way I'd rather have the kids who at least had the initiative to use a creative backdoor to get in than the slimeball who's dad bought his way into Skull and Bones in the furtherance of his future political career. 

So you'd rather them cheat the system further?  And sure, the front door method doesn't make it "better" but the university gets something out of it at least, where as this method you cheat the school, you cheat the college athletic system, you cheat the SATs, you cheat the IRS, you cheat the kid who is doing it the right way, and you think they should get brownie points?  If they cheated in a way that caused less harm I'd agree with you, but this level of scam and freud is deep.  I think jail time is a lot of things that just come down to money, but it's hard to argue against the rare time a celebrity gets treated like a normal citizen
Freud is always deep. He was just that kind of guy.

If I'm faced with two scumbags, I'll generally side with the crafty one. And I get that what they did was wrong. I'm not defending it. I'm not saying they should be punished. This just strikes me as being a little over the top. It'd be like the FBI busting some farmer for bribery because he paid for his congressman's coffee while pitching a law he'd like passed. Yeah, it's probably a violation of the law, but in the grand scheme it's just so trivial compared to the codified method of bribery.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: College Admissions Scandal
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2019, 10:42:03 AM »
Here's the thing, though.  There's an argument - a good one, and one I buy into - that the "super-rich" method and the poor people's method (merit) both benefit the school AND THE OTHER STUDENTS.   The middle group does not.   

I went to Uconn, and the year I was a freshman was the year they hired both Geno Auriemma and Jim Calhoun (women's and men's basketball coaches, respectively).  I remember walking through the field house - where both played their home games - and it was a dark dreary place like you'd see in a movie like Hoosiers.  My dorm had beer stains on each end of the hallway from the kegs (before they were outlawed on campus).   The rest of the building was a drab, brick and block building with rooms that looked like a nicer jail cell with wooden doors.  When I was a junior, my brother transferred in, and he didn't get on campus housing.  At the time I was pissed, because the "basketball players" all got new fancy digs at the one new dorm and he had to live in a shitty apartment off campus?  Fuck that noise...

Except... my brother flunked out after a year, and in the subsequent years the men won four national basketball titles, and the women are up to I think 11 now.  The new field house is state of the art, and right next to the 6,000 seat Gampel Pavilion (he of the super rich) that is as bright and airy as a space station.   The library is all new (when I was there, the bricks were falling off the outside because the genius that designed it forgot to account for the weight of the books, I shit you not).   The softball field where my team won the intramural championship in '86 (and where Alan Hunter showed up for Spring Break and mud volley ball that same year) is now a state-of-the-art graduate business building.  We have TWO hotels on campus.   Formerly known as an "ag school", the number of applicants at Uconn - my "safety school" - is now through the roof, and as a result of the elevated standards, it is now considered a public Ivy, specializing in Business, Science, and Psychology. 

A rising tide raises all boats.   The super rich do that (to an extent).   Having some brainiac take your test for you while you post instagram videos from your dorm room while claiming "I don't know how much of school I'm gonna attend," and "I do want the experience of, like, game days, partying [but] I don't really care about school, as you guys all know." doesn't move the needle one little bit.

My kid is, right now, in the process of selecting a school. It's down to three (I think).  I have no problem in someone investing in the school my kid is going to, be it with flat out cash, or with their intelligence.   I have no interest whatsoever in coddling Olivia Jade or making Lori Loughlin feel better about her parenting skills. 

Offline Stadler

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Re: College Admissions Scandal
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2019, 10:44:11 AM »
Oh, and Felicity Huffman and Lori Loughlin are, to my knowledge, no longer in the same boat.  Huffman handled it with class and humility, took her lumps, moved on.  She likely will end up with probation when all is said and done.  Loughlin continued to play the entitled card and now, as any two-bit observer could have told you, the prosecutors are piling on additional charges.  She wouldn't have gotten into the "jail scenario" had she shown some remorse, contriteness and humility.

Offline cramx3

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Re: College Admissions Scandal
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2019, 10:46:03 AM »
Oh, and Felicity Huffman and Lori Loughlin are, to my knowledge, no longer in the same boat.  Huffman handled it with class and humility, took her lumps, moved on.  She likely will end up with probation when all is said and done.  Loughlin continued to play the entitled card and now, as any two-bit observer could have told you, the prosecutors are piling on additional charges.  She wouldn't have gotten into the "jail scenario" had she shown some remorse, contriteness and humility.

Yea, she got more charges dumped on her now, this is why while I think jail time is harsh, I'm not really up in arms about it.  When people act this way and get punished, I'm not losing sleep.

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Re: College Admissions Scandal
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2019, 10:56:50 AM »
Oh, and Felicity Huffman and Lori Loughlin are, to my knowledge, no longer in the same boat.  Huffman handled it with class and humility, took her lumps, moved on.  She likely will end up with probation when all is said and done.  Loughlin continued to play the entitled card and now, as any two-bit observer could have told you, the prosecutors are piling on additional charges.  She wouldn't have gotten into the "jail scenario" had she shown some remorse, contriteness and humility.

Robert Kraft should've pulled a Huffman and not a Loughlin.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Stadler

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Re: College Admissions Scandal
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2019, 11:30:04 AM »
Oh, and Felicity Huffman and Lori Loughlin are, to my knowledge, no longer in the same boat.  Huffman handled it with class and humility, took her lumps, moved on.  She likely will end up with probation when all is said and done.  Loughlin continued to play the entitled card and now, as any two-bit observer could have told you, the prosecutors are piling on additional charges.  She wouldn't have gotten into the "jail scenario" had she shown some remorse, contriteness and humility.

Robert Kraft should've pulled a Huffman and not a Loughlin.

Haha, exactly right.   

Offline bosk1

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Re: College Admissions Scandal
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2019, 11:53:17 AM »
I think he may have done both, actually.

EDIT:  Oh, I think we are actually not talking about the same thing.  :biggrin:
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Online El Barto

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Re: College Admissions Scandal
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2019, 12:13:36 PM »
My point in starting this wasn't to argue on behalf of these chicks. I think they're getting a raw deal, and I think it's because they didn't know their place in society, but they certainly screwed up. My point was really to get a better understanding of why they're [ostensibly] different, and that's been explained. Here's my next question, though: weren't a lot of these elite university public institutions? If Yale want's to let in dullards for the extra money then so be it. Fuck Yalies anyway. Are we supposed to pretend that buying a new parking garage won't get your kid into USC or U-Conn, or do we accept that it's happening, as well, and just not care? Seems to me there should be a distinction between stealing the opportunity for an education from a public vs private institution.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: College Admissions Scandal
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2019, 12:28:41 PM »
My point in starting this wasn't to argue on behalf of these chicks. I think they're getting a raw deal, and I think it's because they didn't know their place in society, but they certainly screwed up. My point was really to get a better understanding of why they're [ostensibly] different, and that's been explained. Here's my next question, though: weren't a lot of these elite university public institutions? If Yale want's to let in dullards for the extra money then so be it. Fuck Yalies anyway. Are we supposed to pretend that buying a new parking garage won't get your kid into USC or U-Conn, or do we accept that it's happening, as well, and just not care? Seems to me there should be a distinction between stealing the opportunity for an education from a public vs private institution.
I think for purposes of this discussion there are differences, but in terms of the larger picture (and the reactions to it, though I have zero illusions that the reaction is any more complicated than "Fucking celebrities, fuck them!") I don't think it matters.

I think the difference is in the money and where it goes.   Buying a new library benefits EVERYONE, both present (the kids that are using it) and future (the kids that will go to that school because the facilities are so dope).   GIving a $20,000 kick-back to a wrestling coach benefits a) the wrestling coach.   Again, I don't think that's what's happening with the masses regarding the celebs, but that's certainly a pragmatic way of looking at things given what you say (and I agree, by the way) of "why these people, and why now?".   

I'm a huge process guy, but I've come to understand in my old age that there's a necessary level of "gunk" in the system that makes it work.   Rather than jack up the tuition for everyone, the "graft" of having the more wealthy patrons buy new auditoria or libraries so's they can slap their names on it works for everyone.  Yeah, there's gridlock in Washington, but it's a deliberate brake to the more extreme views that might come into power (nah, it'll never happen  ;)). Or like scalping tickets; yeah it blows 9 times out of 10, but that one time, when you want to see Ritchie Blackmore up close before Candace explodes his ticker/spikes his stout, it's nice to know you could if you wanted.   

Online El Barto

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Re: College Admissions Scandal
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2019, 01:44:11 PM »
I think the difference is in the money and where it goes.   Buying a new library benefits EVERYONE, both present (the kids that are using it) and future (the kids that will go to that school because the facilities are so dope).   GIving a $20,000 kick-back to a wrestling coach benefits a) the wrestling coach.   Again, I don't think that's what's happening with the masses regarding the celebs, but that's certainly a pragmatic way of looking at things given what you say (and I agree, by the way) of "why these people, and why now?".   
Yeah, I get that. I'm sold now. I just have a problem with the magnitude of it, I guess. I agree that a big part of this is "celebrities, fuck'em." I also think a major component of the outrage is/should be the lost opportunity for someone more deserving, but that's something we voluntarily forfeit anyway. With that in mind imprisonment just doesn't sit well with me. It's just not that big a deal.

And honestly, I can't shake the feeling that part of this is them not knowing their place. The super rich can do shitty things that the rest of us can't. They tried to get the same benefit and got smacked down for it.


I don't know who Thornton Mellon is, but the "what kind of building do you need" is simply a charitable contribution.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: College Admissions Scandal
« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2019, 01:46:24 PM »
 :lol

Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: College Admissions Scandal
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2019, 05:38:08 AM »
I'll cut them a deal.

If they can pull off the Triple Lindy from the high dive, then they can go free  :lol

The funniest part of this whole mess is the video of one of the kids (olivia Jade) on her youtube channel going on about how she didn't even want to go to college, but her mother told her she was going and she was just gonna party when she got there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mNW6Z7RhPc

Skip to around 5:23

"I want the experience of game days, partying. I don't really care about school"  :lol

« Last Edit: April 11, 2019, 05:46:06 AM by Phoenix87x »

Offline KevShmev

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Re: College Admissions Scandal
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2019, 06:39:03 AM »
Oh, and Felicity Huffman and Lori Loughlin are, to my knowledge, no longer in the same boat.  Huffman handled it with class and humility, took her lumps, moved on.  She likely will end up with probation when all is said and done.  Loughlin continued to play the entitled card and now, as any two-bit observer could have told you, the prosecutors are piling on additional charges.  She wouldn't have gotten into the "jail scenario" had she shown some remorse, contriteness and humility.

This is how I see it as well.

I read a story that Loughlin never thought jail time was a possibility and is freaking out now.  Did she not have a lawyer who advised her properly?  Is she such an elitist snob that she never thought her uppity ass could get thrown in the slammer?  I won't feel the least bit sorry for her if she has to serve some time.


Offline Stadler

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Re: College Admissions Scandal
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2019, 06:43:27 AM »
And honestly, I can't shake the feeling that part of this is them not knowing their place. The super rich can do shitty things that the rest of us can't. They tried to get the same benefit and got smacked down for it.

Well, I think we can both be right.  It's kind of that idea of nouveau riche, isn't it?   There's an institutional "knowledge" that comes with being generational rich.  To a person, every who commented on George H.W. Bush said he knew he was privileged, and took that responsibility seriously.   He never apologized for his riches (and I mean that term broadly), but cared for the people around him, and he made (or helped make) them better people in the ways that he could.   I think there's a crassness about what Loughlin and Huffman did that's significant, and while I'm with you - I think jail time is a waste of resources - I don't think all the vitriol is unfounded.   It takes effort to be responsible and it doesn't seem like they took that much effort to do anything other than flaunt their riches. 

I keep going back to sports analogies; it's like the difference between a Tom Brady and a Patrick Mahomes.   Brady wins ugly more often than not, and he's done it for almost two decades now.   You know what you're going to get, and while every player has moments of "finding things in their ass", he's methodical in how he approaches his excellence.  My beef with Mahomes, so far anyway, is that it all seems so lucky.  So...SELFISH, which is - to me, anyway, how these celebrities come off.  SELFISH. 

I don't know who Thornton Mellon is, but the "what kind of building do you need" is simply a charitable contribution.

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Offline Phoenix87x

  • From the ashes
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Re: College Admissions Scandal
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2019, 06:47:11 AM »
Could you immagine if kinison did the cross examination







God. I need to go rewatch that movie, lol.

Offline Stadler

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Re: College Admissions Scandal
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2019, 06:50:28 AM »
I'll cut them a deal.

If they can pull off the Triple Lindy from the high dive, then they can go free  :lol

The funniest part of this whole mess is the video of one of the kids (olivia Jade) on her youtube channel going on about how she didn't even want to go to college, but her mother told her she was going and she was just gonna party when she got there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mNW6Z7RhPc

Skip to around 5:23

"I want the experience of game days, partying. I don't really care about school"  :lol

And that's a big part of my observation on all this.   So what if Olivia Jade wants to party like it's 1999?   I went to Uconn which, my... I think it was sophomore year, was the No. 5 Party School in the country according to Playboy Magazine (The "Girls Of Uconn!" was a big seller in northeastern Connecticut; I went to high school with one of the girls.  Did NOT see that coming.).  I had a guy on my floor (AMAZING guitar player, by the way, perhaps the best I've ever personally played with) that failed out his first semester, but somehow hung around until the second semester of his sophomore year; his last name was Freeman, and we used to call the "Homer Babbidge Library" the "Homer Freeman Library" in his honor.  But here, with Loughlin, it just seems like it's all TAKE and no GIVE.  Not even a little bit.

I don't even care about the "spot for a deserving student"; these schools have enrollments in the tens of thousands; one spot isn't making or breaking a cure for cancer.  It's about what is the quid pro quo for me.