Joker Movie

[MinistroRaven]

The trailer has dropped

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7286456/videoplayer/vi2883960089?ref_=tt_ov_vi

This is a great character, and seems Phoenix has done a great job. I am anxiously waiting for this movie.

[Adami]

Yea, that trailer looks really cool. Looking forward to this one.

[bosk1]

It does look good.  And it looks like a really interesting portrayal.  But...I dunno, this isn't limited to the Joker, but for me, when we get a bunch of different portrayals of a character, it dilutes the character and feels off.  I don't like the constant reboots and retellings.  We've had now three completely different Joker characters recently enough to where I don't see the point of adding another one, no matter how well done the story is.  Again, maybe this is just my own issue, but it's just hard for me to get past that.  Another example for me is Spiderman.  I LOVE Tom Holland's portrayal and what they have done with the character in the MCU.  But I also have difficulty ignoring the two other recent Spiderman series that have been done, and it starts to blur together and dilute my enthusiasm for what Marvel is doing with the character.  Maybe that doesn't make sense to anyone but me, but it is what it is.

[lordxizor]

I agree with Bosk. To me, the biggest issue with the Joker is that there will now be two different version of him existing at the same time, which are not meant to be the same character. It's one thing to have an origin story for Jared Leto's Joker. The way this is being done is just weird. I get it's standalone movie outside of the DCEU, but I agree it sort of dilutes the character a bit.

That said, it looks pretty good!

[gmillerdrake]

It does look good.  And it looks like a really interesting portrayal.  But...I dunno, this isn't limited to the Joker, but for me, when we get a bunch of different portrayals of a character, it dilutes the character and feels off.  I don't like the constant reboots and retellings.  We've had now three completely different Joker characters recently enough to where I don't see the point of adding another one, no matter how well done the story is.  Again, maybe this is just my own issue, but it's just hard for me to get past that.  Another example for me is Spiderman.  I LOVE Tom Holland's portrayal and what they have done with the character in the MCU.  But I also have difficulty ignoring the two other recent Spiderman series that have been done, and it starts to blur together and dilute my enthusiasm for what Marvel is doing with the character.  Maybe that doesn't make sense to anyone but me, but it is what it is.

Completely this. I have no doubt that Phoenix is going to kill this role. He's a great actor. But like Bosk says......the amount of reboots and re-imaginings of these characters/shows etc etc is starting to cheapen them.

[The Walrus]

When they first announced this movie, I thought, "Oh no." Then they announced that it would have a backstory to Joker and I thought, "Oh no. He shouldn't have his own film, part of his mystique is not going so in-depth on his backstory, that shroud of mystery is part of what makes Heath Ledger's Joker just work." But I can't lie... that's a good trailer. It actually looks good. At the same time, while I don't share bosk's concern about the multiple iterations and reboots, I'm still wary because of what I just wrote about not showing Joker's backstory... but this is already way ahead of Jared Leto's Joker, and that alone has me interested in this. Basically, this was a very pleasant surprise!

[Samsara]

I absolutely loved it. The Joker origin has been attempted before in the comics (this draws a bit from the story that for some reason I'm blanking on its name). In that story, Joker was a struggling comedian who got in with the wrong crowd. His wife was killed and it set him over the age. I'm a huge Batman fan and collector, and it might have been Killing Joke, but I don't remember for certain as it has been ages since I read it (I should really re-read it).

Joaquin Phoenix really looks good so far. I'm excited for this one, big time.

While bosk's sentiment is understandable, and in some ways, I agree, if DCU is going to have a new Batman film (which they are, which concentrates on the detective aspect of Batman's character), they needed to re-cast the Joker in an appropriate way. Leto's LOOK is downright awful (although I think his portrayal may have been great had the look been right, because the acting was fine), and unpopular. And Gotham the TV show...that Joker and that whole series exists in a vacuum. So, they needed Batman's arch enemy if they were going to continue the Batman character. So this makes all sorts of sense.

If I remember right, The Batman is supposed to hit theaters in late 2020, and feature a younger Batman -- not an origin story, just the character in the early years of his career (fingers crossed for Robin). The last of the scripts have been delivered, and principal photography is supposed to start this fall. So we get The Joker in October 2019, and theoretically, probably The Batman for the holiday season in 2020.

I'm hoping if the first Joker film and the new Batman film go well, we get one after that, that incorporates the death of Robin at some point that draws off The Death in the Family arc. Its dated with the Saudi Arabia stuff, and campy, given the Joker was made a dignitary. However, I think the seeds of the arc (the Jason Todd Robin discovering he was adopted and his birth mother was still alive and goes searching for her) could lead to a creepy, disturbing tale of the Joker kidnapping her, and then killing Robin.

Anyway, I'm excited to wash away the awful screw ups of DCU regarding the Affleck version of Batman and the whole "let's do the same thing as MCU and try to catch up with them" mentality. This is a fresh start regarding the Batman franchise, and Joaquin Phoenix is a great choice to portray the Joker. REALLY looking forward to it. The trailer was great.

Hopefully the movie will follow suit.

[Phoenix87x]

I didn't love the trailer and I didn't hate it. Haven't really made up my mind on it honestly.

Joker is one of my favorite characters, so I can't see myself not going to see it. Unfortunately, October feels so far away.

I wonder what the ratio will be of Backstory/Full joker.  I would like to get a decent amount of time of him as the joker, but we'll see.

[bosk1]

I don't disagree with any of what Samsara posted.  But just let me say this...

And before I do, let me just say again that I'm not trying to talk myself or anyone else out of liking this film.  At least from the trailer, this looks good.  REALLY good. 

...But DC has made such a mess with its films.  And, of course, this isn't limited just to them.  But since this is a DC film, it is relevant.  I mean, we had Nolan's Batman series first.  And it was mostly brilliant.  I think the third chapter had some problems.  And because Nolan self-limited to a trilogy, I think that in retrospect, we got an overall timeline that was too compressed and doesn't completely make sense for a whole character arc for Wayne/Batman.  And then we get the "DCU" films following SO quickly after that, even though they are clearly intended to be completely different characters, there is still confusion created by using the same characters in unrelated universes so close together.  And then, on top of that, you have a DCU that is so convolluted and confusing in and of itself.  So while this looks really cool, I'm sure I'm not the only fan that simultaneously feels like we have had too many different version of these characters too close together.

Honestly, though, this isn't a problem unique to the films.  I might be in the minority on this, but it also used to bother me when I followed comics as a teen and then young adult when a new author would take over a franchise and, in doing so, would completely reinterpret the characters and ignore (i.e.--outright contradict) past storylines for those characters.  I mean, I guess that's only natural when, for example, you have a character like Spiderman appearing in 1962...but then in 1980-something, Peter Parker is STILL a high school student and you have to find ways to make that work.  I get it.  But it's still pretty confusing at the same time.

[Grappler]

The trailer starts out with the character talking about his mother and my initial reaction was 'NO, NOT AGAIN!"   Another DC Universe movie hinging on a character's relationship with their mom. 

It looks interesting, and I'm sure Joaquin Phoenix is going to be fantastic.

[MinistroRaven]

Interesting reactions from fans over the Batman-News.com FB page:

If your a comic book film person. Then this film was not created for you. The Joker film definitely took a lot of inspiration from Robert DeNiro "King of Comedy" film

I’m a comic person and this is created for me too. You just have to separate yourself from what you know, and enjoy something new. It’s not canon. It’s just a story!

This is a fucking masterpiece one shot and I’m beyond satisfied with this mash up of Romero/Nicholson/Azzarello feel.

I'm getting vibes of the flashback scenes from the killing joke animated feature

Comic book fans are going to trash this film. But if your a well rounded movie watcher you'll appreciate this film.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

The trailer did actually look really interesting and I think Joaquin is definitely perfect for that kind of portrayal however I do share the general concern about too many reboots at this point.

[Cool Chris]

Not generally being a fan specifically of comic book universe based films, this looks intriguing.

[Dream Team]

Don’t care too much about it, but sincerely hoping that after its release I don’t have to keep hearing about Heath Ledger anymore.

[kaos2900]

Looks cool, but I'm wondering how they'll handle the absence of Batman.

[King Postwhore]

Don’t care too much about it, but sincerely hoping that after its release I don’t have to keep hearing about Heath Ledger anymore.

Why?  He was amazing in that role.

[jammindude]

Don’t care too much about it, but sincerely hoping that after its release I don’t have to keep hearing about Heath Ledger anymore.

Why?  He was amazing in that role.

THIS

[Dream Team]

I’ve seen countless great acting performances but none seem to get shoved down my throat more than that one, that’s why.

[King Postwhore]

Aren't you being a bit sensitive on this subject?  When was the last time anybody talked about Ledger?   Of course with his Post death Oscar push you'd hear it then but after that?

[Dream Team]

It’s probably just a result of being on this forum, honestly. I rarely see other great performances mentioned.

[The Walrus]

Well, there's a reason Ledger's joker is so highly praised and talked about to this day, dude. But the only times I see Ledger even brought up around these parts are when Joker is being talked about... rightfully so, because he is largely considered to be the best of the Jokers, which is more apparent since they 1) took it in a different direction after him and 2) failed miserably with Leto in the role. Phoenix seems to be on the right path though if that trailer is any indication.

If you want other great performances mentioned, first I have to ask, are you referring to great performances by villains, or heroes, or any film actor in general? Ledger stands out specifically because there aren't a whole lot of 'amazing' acting performances in comic book movies (Marvel's been getting good lately, though) - and in 2008, Ledger blew the freaking roof off of it and really showed that a "comic book character" can be brought to life just as much as any prestigious actor portraying a character in an original film.

Spoiler though: if you think you're not going to hear about Ledger after this, I have some bad news for you. Ledger will always be brought up when cinematic Joker portrayals are the subject.

[King Postwhore]

It’s probably just a result of being on this forum, honestly. I rarely see other great performances mentioned.

I am looking forward to this though.  I like the psychology of him becoming the Joker.  This is what they tried to do with the first Hulk not in the MCU but failed.  Hopefully, this one delivers.

[Dream Team]

@Kattleox - honestly imo it’s overrated. And I’m talking about ALL movies I’ve seen released from 1920 til today, and Mr Ledger didn’t invent acting.

Edit: just one example, Deniro in Cape Fear is a far superior villain performance imo. The guy scared the shit out of me.

[King Postwhore]

Deniro has phoned it in for 2 decades. And Heath did reinvent The Joker.  Read about it.

https://uproxx.com/movies/heath-ledger-the-joker-preparation/2/


Honestly,  up to this movie, I looked at Heath as an average actor.  But this was a tour de force of a role he reinvented.

[jammindude]

I'm just months away from 50 years old....I've followed cinema my entire life....even saw Star Wars in its original theater run...and I'm telling you that Heath Ledger was the greatest cinematic villain in movie history.   Blew Darth Vader out of the water.   I could watch The Dark Knight over and over again just because of that performance.   It was so good, that I almost forget the movie was supposed to be about Batman.

[The Walrus]

@Kattleox - honestly imo it’s overrated. And I’m talking about ALL movies I’ve seen released from 1920 til today, and Mr Ledger didn’t invent acting.

Edit: just one example, Deniro in Cape Fear is a far superior villain performance imo. The guy scared the shit out of me.

What other roles are superior to Heath Ledger's performance? I'm genuinely curious what you put over it. Nobody ever said Ledger invented acting, but the level to which he immersed himself in the role of The Joker and really brought it to life is almost unprecedented. It's a performance you very rarely ever see from an actor.

[Adami]

Good god people.

I doubt too many people have the opinion that Ledger's performance is the greatest performance ever on screen. Arguing against that is a bit hyperbolic and missing the point.

Anyway, new movie looks good.

I actually like this approach. They're not rebooting anything. They're just doing something new. They're breaking continuity and allowing a personal a film maker to make his own interpretation of the character. As far as I know, Leto is still the "main" Joker, for better worse. Mostly worse. But this is a neat look into how someone else sees the character. Don't see the problem there. It's not at all like Spider-Man, where every new version was supposed to be the new, definitive, and sole version. This isn't trying to do that at all.

They do this stuff in comics all the time. You'll get a random story about someone that is totally out of continuity and is just a writer/artist exploring a neat story that couldn't be told in the main universe.

[The Walrus]

I wasn't arguing, I was just asking a question about what he puts above it given that opinion about Ledger is in the minority. It's all good.

[Adami]

I wasn't arguing, I was just asking a question about what he puts above it given that opinion about Ledger is in the minority. It's all good.

It wasn’t really a response to you. Just happened to come after yours.

Also his commitment is not at all unprecedented. Daniel Day Lewis made a whole career out of it.

[The Walrus]

Good, just wanted to be clear 

And I should have clarified. I meant unprecedented for a comic book character - obviously loads of brilliant acting performances came before Ledger, he certainly wasn't the be all end all of acting. But a lot of the criticisms of comic book characters in film, even today, even for most Marvel characters, is that there isn't enough depth or complexity to them. I think Ledger's Joker was the first time I saw a CB character on the big screen and thought, wow, that's a character, he's not just a bad guy or a hero or fitting some kind of template with predictable actions or a boring story arc. I still haven't seen an actor in a comic-based film or show reach that level of performance.

[Adami]

Good, just wanted to be clear 

And I should have clarified. I meant unprecedented for a comic book character - obviously loads of brilliant acting performances came before Ledger, he certainly wasn't the be all end all of acting. But a lot of the criticisms of comic book characters in film, even today, even for most Marvel characters, is that there isn't enough depth or complexity to them. I think Ledger's Joker was the first time I saw a CB character on the big screen and thought, wow, that's a character, he's not just a bad guy or a hero or fitting some kind of template with predictable actions or a boring story arc. I still haven't seen an actor in a comic-based film or show reach that level of performance.

On that, we can agree.

Although I'd say Arnold in Batman (whichever one it was) surpassed Ledger. 

[The Walrus]

You are a madman 

[Adami]

You are a madman 

Madman?!?!?! Sounds like you need to.....chillllll

[King Postwhore]

Adami, chiiiiilllllll.

[Cool Chris]

As I said I am not a comic book guy, or a film based on a comic book guy, so with that grain of salt, Terence Stamp as General Zod is one of my favorite film antagonists ever. I have no idea how he compares to any other portrayal of Zod, either on film or page. And I don't care.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP0Z0Kl7Zzg&feature=youtu.be&t=13

They're not rebooting anything. They're just doing something new. They're breaking continuity and allowing a personal a film maker to make his own interpretation of the character. As far as I know, Leto is still the "main" Joker, for better worse. Mostly worse. But this is a neat look into how someone else sees the character. Don't see the problem there. It's not at all like Spider-Man, where every new version was supposed to be the new, definitive, and sole version.

So it's not a "reboot" they are just "doing something new?" There is a "Main" Joker? What does that even mean? I am not picking you Adami, this whole continuity issue and the associated mentality that some people get caught up in (again, not you) is just so confusing.