Poll

Do you consider "Octavarium" to be one of the best DT songs?

Yes
110 (70.1%)
No
47 (29.9%)

Total Members Voted: 156

Author Topic: Do you consider "Octavarium" to be one of the best DT songs?  (Read 4555 times)

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Offline Grappler

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Re: Do you consider "Octavarium" to be one of the best DT songs?
« Reply #35 on: March 29, 2019, 06:15:06 AM »
No.  I never have and never will.

Offline nattmorker

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Re: Do you consider "Octavarium" to be one of the best DT songs?
« Reply #36 on: March 29, 2019, 07:23:25 PM »
Probably my favorite DT song along!

Offline commanderbob

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Re: Do you consider "Octavarium" to be one of the best DT songs?
« Reply #37 on: March 29, 2019, 08:09:56 PM »
I always think like this: it's weird that one of Dream Theater's best songs isn't really a Dream Theater song. I feel like they are doing the most amazing cover of something from the 70's.

Offline porcacultor

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Re: Do you consider "Octavarium" to be one of the best DT songs?
« Reply #38 on: March 29, 2019, 08:27:52 PM »
It does its job in the album and is a great song, but I think they have far better tunes. Still lots of fun, though

Offline romdrums

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Re: Do you consider "Octavarium" to be one of the best DT songs?
« Reply #39 on: March 29, 2019, 08:40:05 PM »
No.  I never have and never will.

Same here.
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Offline Dave_Manchester

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Re: Do you consider "Octavarium" to be one of the best DT songs?
« Reply #40 on: March 29, 2019, 08:42:12 PM »
This has been an interesting thread (I expected a more unanimous answer to the question). Octavarium is a really important song in my life, and to me it sums up the band's brilliance, but I can completely understand people who aren't too keen on it. Quite honestly for about 10 years after the album's release I didn't think all that highly of it either, and it's only in the last few years I've come to love it and consider it their best song.

Offline mooshinator

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Re: Do you consider "Octavarium" to be one of the best DT songs?
« Reply #41 on: March 29, 2019, 11:05:44 PM »
I wonder if there's an age gap, i.e. younger fans find it fresh and interesting while older fans find it too derivative of other works?

But I can see it working the other way as well, older fans appreciating the props and younger fans not getting the references?

Regardless, it's a top 5-10 song for me.

Offline Herrick

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Re: Do you consider "Octavarium" to be one of the best DT songs?
« Reply #42 on: March 29, 2019, 11:09:32 PM »
No, and I never have. I think it is completely overrated, derivative of other bands (that one section that doesn't just capture the vibe of Kansas, but literally is THE SAME PASSAGE as a Kansas song took me over the edge), and pointless.

I try to be positive these days about Dream Theater, but Octavarium is everything that was wrong about the band at that point and forward for awhile, for me.

Which Kansas song?

Not as a whole but Razors Edge sure is

I watched a medley and they played Razor's Edge (where Portnoy does the "Wah-haaaaaa!!!!) and I thought it was amazing. I hadn't listened to Octavarium since it came out and that video made me go back to the album and the title track. I've cum to love that song but yeah, I'm kinda waiting for Razor's Edge when listening to the song. The buildup (forgot what it's called) to Razor's Edge is also really fucking good.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2019, 11:17:52 PM by Herrick »
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Offline DT1138

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Re: Do you consider "Octavarium" to be one of the best DT songs?
« Reply #43 on: March 31, 2019, 08:52:35 AM »
No for me.

Personally, I'll take Panic Attack over Octavarium any day. 

And I used to get those all the time in real life - the song is way more fun, trust me!  ;D

Offline Trav86

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Re: Do you consider "Octavarium" to be one of the best DT songs?
« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2019, 09:10:58 AM »
I'm going to say "yes". It's one of those songs where when I haven't heard it in a while I don't think much of it.  Then when I do hear it, I'm like "oh yeah, this song is really awesome."
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Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: Do you consider "Octavarium" to be one of the best DT songs?
« Reply #45 on: March 31, 2019, 09:27:51 AM »
Nope. Most of the individual parts are great but switching between different topics of full circle-ness kind of ruins the mood and then the section called Full Circle just about kills it.

I mean they reference the replacement singer in Judas Priest along with Owen Wilson. Honestly really weird and off putting. 

Offline Trav86

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Re: Do you consider "Octavarium" to be one of the best DT songs?
« Reply #46 on: March 31, 2019, 10:12:48 AM »
I get that.  I think he was going for an early Genesis/Peter Gabriel vibe where he would use pop culture references and really goofy lyrics. Or knowing Portnoy, he thought it was clever. Who knows.
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Offline Anguyen92

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Re: Do you consider "Octavarium" to be one of the best DT songs?
« Reply #47 on: March 31, 2019, 10:50:08 AM »
I wonder if there's an age gap, i.e. younger fans find it fresh and interesting while older fans find it too derivative of other works?

But I can see it working the other way as well, older fans appreciating the props and younger fans not getting the references?

Regardless, it's a top 5-10 song for me.

For the bolded, it could be that it's not as much as not getting the classic songs references as it is not really caring about those references.  For me, as a younger fan, I'm like, "Yeah, that's cool that they devoted a section to that, but I don't know if it fits the song or if I really care about that as much as those that likes those "nuggets" and stuff."

Octavarium is a good song and an important song for the DT lore, but I wouldn't want to say it's one of my faves or something I want to listen to too often.  If I wanted to listen to a DT epic, I would prefer Illumination Theory or even The Count of Tuscany (wacky lyrics and "LET ME INTRODUCE, MY BROTHER" aside) or if it counts, I would just listen to the entire A Mind Beside Itself trilogy.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2019, 10:55:46 AM by Anguyen92 »

Offline The Walrus

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Re: Do you consider "Octavarium" to be one of the best DT songs?
« Reply #48 on: March 31, 2019, 12:26:55 PM »
I think the section with references all in the lyrics is amazing, but that's just me. One of my favorite DT sections ever.
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Offline TAC

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Re: Do you consider "Octavarium" to be one of the best DT songs?
« Reply #49 on: March 31, 2019, 12:29:09 PM »
I think the references are kind of cringeworthy, but the section works so well in the song, it's easy to get past it.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline TheGreatPretender

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Re: Do you consider "Octavarium" to be one of the best DT songs?
« Reply #50 on: March 31, 2019, 04:41:25 PM »
I think the references are kind of cringeworthy, but the section works so well in the song, it's easy to get past it.

It's only cringeworthy if you try and take it too seriously. Which I don't think was the intention. It's such a fun section.
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Offline TAC

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Re: Do you consider "Octavarium" to be one of the best DT songs?
« Reply #51 on: March 31, 2019, 04:43:25 PM »
Yeah, 8V is my 2nd all time favorite DT song, so I don't take it to seriously. MP had his cringeworthy moments, but that never stopped me from loving him.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: Do you consider "Octavarium" to be one of the best DT songs?
« Reply #52 on: March 31, 2019, 07:15:09 PM »
I think the references are kind of cringeworthy, but the section works so well in the song, it's easy to get past it.

It's only cringeworthy if you try and take it too seriously. Which I don't think was the intention. It's such a fun section.

Kinda hard to not take it seriously after two beautiful sections.

Offline Herrick

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Re: Do you consider "Octavarium" to be one of the best DT songs?
« Reply #53 on: April 01, 2019, 12:12:55 AM »
What's up with the Wilson Philips line?
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Offline TheCountOfNYC

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Re: Do you consider "Octavarium" to be one of the best DT songs?
« Reply #54 on: April 01, 2019, 02:35:31 AM »
It’s my all time favorite song.
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Offline TheGreatPretender

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Re: Do you consider "Octavarium" to be one of the best DT songs?
« Reply #55 on: April 01, 2019, 06:23:00 AM »
Kinda hard to not take it seriously after two beautiful sections.

Well, those sections were slow and melodic, as the music changes its intensity, so does the mood. It makes the epic all the more awesome.
"How's that for a slice of fried gold?"

Offline WildRanger

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Re: Do you consider "Octavarium" to be one of the best DT songs?
« Reply #56 on: April 01, 2019, 06:54:28 AM »
Octavarium is heavily influenced by Pink Floyd, esp. the first part.


Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Do you consider "Octavarium" to be one of the best DT songs?
« Reply #57 on: April 01, 2019, 07:43:33 AM »
Musically, yes. But the lyrics of Full Circle really dampens my enjoyment.

Offline Tick

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Re: Do you consider "Octavarium" to be one of the best DT songs?
« Reply #58 on: April 01, 2019, 07:47:47 AM »
Love it! My favorite DT song! :metal
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Offline ThatOneGuy2112

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Re: Do you consider "Octavarium" to be one of the best DT songs?
« Reply #59 on: April 01, 2019, 08:37:36 AM »
I get that Full Circle's lyrics aren't supposed to be taken too seriously, and its got some fun wordplay there, but it does still sound real silly taken out of that context. I wouldn't go so far as to call it cringeworthy, but since it follows directly after two more somber and serious moments on the song, it just strikes me as a bit tone deaf and takes me out of the immersion of the song that the previous sections so compellingly achieved, if not just a little bit.

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: Do you consider "Octavarium" to be one of the best DT songs?
« Reply #60 on: April 01, 2019, 08:58:02 AM »
I do not get what you are all saying about the Full Circle section.  The character in the song is coming out and going back into a coma and in his mind these images are going through him as he fades away.  These are from the era that Mike grew up and as well as this character in the song.    I look at is as a kid who went into a coma, comes out a middle age man with the mental capacity of a teen.   That's a serious section.
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Offline The Walrus

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Re: Do you consider "Octavarium" to be one of the best DT songs?
« Reply #61 on: April 01, 2019, 09:02:06 AM »
I do not get what you are all saying about the Full Circle section.  The character in the song is coming out and going back into a coma and in his mind these images are going through him as he fades away.  These are from the era that Mike grew up and as well as this character in the song.    I look at is as a kid who went into a coma, comes out a middle age man with the mental capacity of a teen.   That's a serious section.

Bingo... Lots of the comments about it here have just baffled me. Nailed it!
From a Mega Man Legends island jamming power metal to a Walrus listening to black metal, I like your story arc.
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Do you consider "Octavarium" to be one of the best DT songs?
« Reply #62 on: April 01, 2019, 09:28:35 AM »
Just listened to it the other day after a good year or so without having listened to it.....and man.....this is such a good song. Having that 'time away' from it and then giving it a good listen really amplifies just how good a song it is.
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Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Do you consider "Octavarium" to be one of the best DT songs?
« Reply #63 on: April 01, 2019, 09:29:48 AM »
The problem with a lot of Mike's lyrics is that they only make sense if you imagine you are Mike Portnoy himself as they are too attached to his personal experience. Full Circle makes sense for him. But to the listener?

Offline bosk1

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Re: Do you consider "Octavarium" to be one of the best DT songs?
« Reply #64 on: April 01, 2019, 09:39:37 AM »
The problem with a lot of Mike's lyrics is that they only make sense if you imagine you are Mike Portnoy himself as they are too attached to his personal experience. Full Circle makes sense for him. But to the listener?

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Offline King Postwhore

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Re: Do you consider "Octavarium" to be one of the best DT songs?
« Reply #65 on: April 01, 2019, 09:43:50 AM »
You don't have any imagination to figure our the references are from a certain era?  What's wrong with that?  Why does an artist have to paint a picture that you can understand?  An artist makes music first on what pleases them.  You can be along with it an interpret it however you can?  Some are literal, others are more ethereal, some are opaque. 
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Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Do you consider "Octavarium" to be one of the best DT songs?
« Reply #66 on: April 01, 2019, 10:09:30 AM »
You don't have any imagination to figure our the references are from a certain era?  What's wrong with that?  Why does an artist have to paint a picture that you can understand?  An artist makes music first on what pleases them.  You can be along with it an interpret it however you can?  Some are literal, others are more ethereal, some are opaque.

But that's it exactly. I can not interpret it because all those references in Full Circle only make sense to me when explained.

I guess I just tend to compare with James LaBrie's lyrics, which almost always resonate with me even though when I get to read his explanation of where the lyrics are coming from, it's different from what I imagined it to be.

Does an artist have to paint a picture that I can understand? Of course, it doesn't. But it must at least resonate. Full Circle really just did not resonate with me at any level. Unlike "Someone Like Him"

Offline The Walrus

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Re: Do you consider "Octavarium" to be one of the best DT songs?
« Reply #67 on: April 01, 2019, 10:12:30 AM »
But, just to push back a little - that section is not meant to 'resonate' at least not in that way. It's part of the concept of the song. It's not supposed to be an emotional set of lyrics like Someone Like Him, and not a pensive observation on life like The Razor's Edge is. It's supposed to be a chaotic yet methodically organized set of thoughts rushing through the character's head. Not liking it is something I'm totally respectful of and understand, but I don't think that everything HAS to resonate emotionally in order to work. There's more to a set of lyrics than simply having that emotional connection. Context! King nailed it imo.

Again, not at all saying you're wrong or that anybody is wrong about this, but I think that section definitely deserves more credit than it gets.
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Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Do you consider "Octavarium" to be one of the best DT songs?
« Reply #68 on: April 01, 2019, 10:17:05 AM »
Which is precisely my point. The lyrics only make sense from a  very specific context, and unfortunately, it is a context that I only got when it was explained to me because I can not get it during my pre-DT Forum days. I did not grow up during the time of Portnoy's music fandom, so it really felt like just a bunch of gibberish like somebody pretending to be John Lennon making lyrics on the fly before I got an explanation of what Mike was doing.

Offline The Walrus

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Re: Do you consider "Octavarium" to be one of the best DT songs?
« Reply #69 on: April 01, 2019, 10:21:17 AM »
Is that necessarily a bad thing, though? I feel myself about to launch into a diatribe about the 'mystique' of music prior to Internet access and being able to collect all the information about all these nuggets in a band's music. Before I ever thought that section actually meant something (by researching it), I just thought it was a bizarre set of lyrics that seemed to be connected in some way that matched the overall theme of the song. Does something have to make sense in order to be considered 'good'? I think that's the crux of this discussion. For me, not always. This is also a peculiar section of the song in that the lyrics aren't like anything else in their catalog, so I don't think it's easy to compare them to others (insofar as 'making sense' goes). I don't think they're inherently bad just because they're bizarre.
From a Mega Man Legends island jamming power metal to a Walrus listening to black metal, I like your story arc.
"I don't worry about nothing, no, 'cause worrying's a waste of my time"