Author Topic: Public service announcement for those attending shows this tour: BRING EAR PLUGS  (Read 8884 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Zook

  • Evil Incarnate
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 14154
  • Gender: Male
  • Take My Hand
Have they ever said why they have the volume so high?

Offline GandL

  • Posts: 119
  • Gender: Male
Me and daughter had to wear them for the first part, but for SFaM we didn't , it was just fine.

Offline utopiarun

  • Posts: 133
my son and I went to the Red Bank show last night. Great show! but L O U D!!! The first set I thought my head was going to pop off. I brought earplugs and didn't wear them for the first set (I never wear earplugs but I bring them!) and had them on for SFAM but took them out and it didn't seem that loud the 2nd set so I kept them out.

I wonder if Bosk or someone else could ask why the concerts need to be so damn loud and distorted. My son who is a veteran of many metal shows said it was too loud! If NMB and Steven Wilson can give clear but loud sounding concerts, why not DT?

Offline cramx3

  • Chillest of the chill
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 34365
  • Gender: Male
my son and I went to the Red Bank show last night. Great show! but L O U D!!! The first set I thought my head was going to pop off. I brought earplugs and didn't wear them for the first set (I never wear earplugs but I bring them!) and had them on for SFAM but took them out and it didn't seem that loud the 2nd set so I kept them out.

I wonder if Bosk or someone else could ask why the concerts need to be so damn loud and distorted. My son who is a veteran of many metal shows said it was too loud! If NMB and Steven Wilson can give clear but loud sounding concerts, why not DT?

Was also at this show, all the way in the top of the back and thought it sounded great up there, but if I went down to the bottom of the balcony, I thought the sound was too loud especially the vocals.  I was happy to have much better sound where I was seated.

Offline lovethedrake

  • Posts: 564
I was at the Chicago show and the sound was excellent,  James mic was too loud for the opener and then they adjusted the mix and it was amazing.  If anything it actually could have been louder.     

I'm sure every venue is different and it depends on where you sit.

The first DT concert I ever went to was when they toured with Spocks Beard in 99 or 2000.... I was right next to the speaker and I thought my head might explode.  I hated the show.   

Thankfully the next 11 concerts I have seen by them have all been amazing  :metal

Offline RipRokken

  • Posts: 29
Well, based on multiple warnings I’ve received, both inside and outside the board, I shall come well prepared to Dallas. Took someone’s advice here and ordered a set of Ear Peace plugs. :)

Offline adamack

  • Posts: 639
From another thread:

I have no idea if the volume issue was more on DT's team, or on the Wiltern.  But let others attending stops on this tour be forewarned... if this wasn't a one-off, you may really need to protect yourself and be prepared for some insane sound levels.

Yeah, you know, I didn't find the SF show to be quite as loud as what you guys are describing (it definitely was loud, but definitely not the loudest show I have seen).  But both JP and MM asked me if I brought earplugs before the show started, which they have not done before.  So apparently, there is a problem.  Sorry it dampened your enjoyment of the show.

Thankfully, I was wearing ear plugs, as I almost always do (unless I forget them).  But this is apparently not an isolated issue, and even the band asked me if I had some.  So please protect yourself and enjoy the show to the utmost.  If you find yourself there and realize you forgot to bring some, you can usually buy them inside the venue, or at least wad up a bit of toilet tissue and stick in your ears.

I feel like this should be a sticky, ha. My friend and I didn't have earplugs and suffered. I had read about it being loud online before hand, but I was like eh, loud schmoud. I'll be okay.

But I should have listened then, because I certainly can't now. Ears still ringing

Online geeeemo

  • Posts: 1036
  • Gender: Female
It's been 3+ weeks since the 1st of my 2 shows. The first was Cazy loud. The second I brought the earplugs, but it wasn't nearly as loud so I didnt use them. My ears are Still ringing. I keep thinking I should forgo any music for a while, and have made a conscious decision to keep the volume low when I do. Wonder if it's too late. ???

Offline Lethean

  • Posts: 4504
I think everyone should just get into the habit of bringing earplugs to every show.  They don't take up much room in your pocket.  I'd also say people should put them in at the beginning of each show.  If the volume is so low that you just can't hear it, you can always take them out.  Enough people have shared their experiences with tinnitus and hearing loss and I think it's just better to protect yourself.

Offline Phoenix87x

  • From the ashes
  • Posts: 8388
  • The Phoenix shall rise
I brought earplugs, but ended up not using them. My hearing must be shot, since it didn't bother me but I would say it was pretty loud regardless.

Offline Herrick

  • Posts: 1973
  • Gender: Male
  • Hello Mangs
It was loud at the Beacon in NYC a few nights ago but I didn't experience any pain. It helps to know the music very well beforehand. I'd never go to a concert to see a band I don't know very well especially a loud heavy band. When Exodus opened for King Diamond a few years ago I had no idea what they were playing. I'm mostly a Metal guy but I wasn't into Exodus.
DISPLAY thy Breasts, My Julia!

Offline nikatapi

  • Posts: 1640
  • Gender: Male
So is the band aware of this? Maybe try to lower the volume levels a bit?

Offline DT2003

  • Posts: 265
my son and I went to the Red Bank show last night. Great show! but L O U D!!! The first set I thought my head was going to pop off. I brought earplugs and didn't wear them for the first set (I never wear earplugs but I bring them!) and had them on for SFAM but took them out and it didn't seem that loud the 2nd set so I kept them out.

I wonder if Bosk or someone else could ask why the concerts need to be so damn loud and distorted. My son who is a veteran of many metal shows said it was too loud! If NMB and Steven Wilson can give clear but loud sounding concerts, why not DT?

I was at the Red Bank show as well and yeah it was very loud, especially the first set. I wore earplugs (as I always do) so my ears were completely fine, but without them my ears would have been ringing for days. The crack of MM’s snare was especially loud, although I thought that was a good thing.

Online geeeemo

  • Posts: 1036
  • Gender: Female
I have been to several concerts the last couple of years. Metallica, Judas Priest, Megadeth, Queenstyche and none were this painfully loud. I was up front for most. The 3 Astonishing shows were perfect. I remember saying , wow! ;) loud but perfectly clear. I wonder why it is different now.. :huh:

Offline hefdaddy42

  • Et in Arcadia Ego
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 53126
  • Gender: Male
  • Postwhore Emeritus
I was at the show in Charlotte last night, and unfortunately I had forgotten to bring earplugs. 

That was one of the loudest fucking concerts I've ever been to, and I saw the Who years and years ago.

My right ear especially is still not right. 

I made a comment about it to JP after the show, and he said "Aw man.  Shoulda worn some earplugs."  No shit, thanks JP lol
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline nikatapi

  • Posts: 1640
  • Gender: Male
I was at the show in Charlotte last night, and unfortunately I had forgotten to bring earplugs. 

That was one of the loudest fucking concerts I've ever been to, and I saw the Who years and years ago.

My right ear especially is still not right. 

I made a comment about it to JP after the show, and he said "Aw man.  Shoulda worn some earplugs."  No shit, thanks JP lol

How about turning the volume down a bit JP? :huh:

Offline YtseJam

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 739
  • Gender: Male
  • Your mom
Why go to a live show if you have to wear ear plugs?  :tdwn

Offline KevShmev

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 41963
  • Gender: Male
Why go to a live show if you have to wear ear plugs?  :tdwn

Because not everyone wants to be deaf before the age of 40 thanks to bands who crank the volume up to ear-splitting levels, Dream Theater included. 

Online geeeemo

  • Posts: 1036
  • Gender: Female
I am curious, why sooo loud? ???

I went to 2 of these concerts and there was a very noticeable difference in volume between the two. I had never thought of wearing earplugs at a rock concert. I have been to several metal concerts in the last few years and none have been so ear-splitting as the DT one I saw in LA. Milwaukee was much better. When I saw TA, it was Loud, but not painful.  The d/t concert in LA even seemed so loud, that the music lost some of it's clarity.  I was surprised by this - DT doesn't seem like a band that just wouldn't sound perfect.

Anyway I enjoyed both and now - 1 month later - my ears have (thankfully) recovered.

Offline Evai

  • Posts: 497
Maybe this is their new method of stopping bootleg recordings; playing so loud that everyone's phones will distort  :lol
Jordan took Moore's boring, pedestrian parts and elevated them considerably to take them from barely palatable to stellar.

Offline Aythesryche

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 581
  • Gender: Male
I’m curious, if he’s even aware, if JP is blowing off the feedback of the concert being too loud due to the possibility his hearing being messed up. When JP threw the release party for the self titled album, I remember some people mentioning how unnecessarily loud it was (cranked to 11, as JP put it), to the point where it was almost unbearable.

Either his hearing is messed up and he doesn’t sense it’s too loud, or he’s just the kinda guy that likes it overbearing like that. Or both. Perhaps they’re all unaware in the live setting due to the inner ear monitors. But then again, their sound crew might have last word on the levels, so I wonder what their reasoning is.

Offline efx

  • Posts: 231
Why go to a live show if you have to wear ear plugs?  :tdwn

To be able to go to more of them.  I have molded earplugs that cut evenly across the spectrum and actually also kills most room ambiance so it ends up sounding even better than without plugs, just quieter. I still get the physical interaction of the loud music but with no damage done to my hearing.

Offline cramx3

  • Chillest of the chill
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 34365
  • Gender: Male
Maybe this is their new method of stopping bootleg recordings; playing so loud that everyone's phones will distort  :lol

This isn't meant to be a crack on JLB, I love his vocals, but have been thinking about this lately.  How he sounds so good live in person and then on recording you can hear the nuances more.  Maybe the loudness is part of the reason behind that? 

Offline RipRokken

  • Posts: 29
This isn't meant to be a crack on JLB, I love his vocals, but have been thinking about this lately.  How he sounds so good live in person and then on recording you can hear the nuances more.  Maybe the loudness is part of the reason behind that?

I do believe that volume must be used sometimes to make up for imperfections in performance, but cranking the volume up to painful levels is doing fans a disservice. Even at reasonable levels, there’s no doubt that we don’t detect a lot of things in the live environment that seem so painfully obvious in a YouTube clip. But I also believe live performances are generally done a complete injustice by cheap handheld fan filmed video. Even if a singer is spot on, you lose so much of the ambience they can sound terrible. Think how bad some raw, isolated vocal tracks from classic songs sound apart from the full recording — sometimes no better sounding than someone singing badly in the shower.

Unfortunately there are too many people who don’t consider these things when they troll videos and play armchair critic, lol. I’m pretty easy... if someone has a bad night, it happens. Plus, singers get sick, older, substitute notes when their range decreases, etc. But I can’t deal with deafening volume, which leads to my next question...


Offline RipRokken

  • Posts: 29
I’d love some advice please. I’m going to the Dallas show this Monday and purchased some Ear Piece plugs that I believe I saw someone on this forum recommend. They come with three sets of filters — low, medium, and high. I know this is down to personal preference and tolerance, but which set might members here recommend for the show? The last thing I want to do during the concert, especially being up front, is fumble around changing out filters to find the right option, lol. Hope to get it right on the first try so I can protect my hearing without muffling out all the sound. If I had to guess, I’d go with medium. Thanks in advance for any suggestions! :)

Offline ReaPsTA

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 11204
  • Gender: Male
  • Addicted to the pain
Some of the posts above suggest that the volume is to cover up JLB's voice being uneven or comes from a lack of confidence in the music. I don't get either of these theories in light of the simpler explanation that Dream Theater's trying to put on a good rock show. I've never really loved A Nightmare to Remember. But, live, when Jordan's opening piano reverberates through the halls, then jumps into the ABSOLUTELY MASSIVE sounding guitar chords, with the sound of the Toms vibrating through your chest, I was made into a fan.
Take a chance you may die
Over and over again

Offline Grizz

  • Posts: 1666
Maybe this is their new method of stopping bootleg recordings; playing so loud that everyone's phones will distort  :lol

This isn't meant to be a crack on JLB, I love his vocals, but have been thinking about this lately.  How he sounds so good live in person and then on recording you can hear the nuances more.  Maybe the loudness is part of the reason behind that?
It is a major contributing factor to why JLB sounds a lot better in person, but I don't think that's the motivation behind the volume. Tbh, I think the sound guy is just going deaf.

Is this perhaps why that live album sounds like it's a 5.1 mix played on a stereo setup? And the crowd sounds awfully doctored.
This was ear-splitting live between the high average sound levels that DT has had for the past 5+ years and the fact that Opera Houses are designed explicitly for a person's voice to clearly reach from the stage to the nosebleeds. Putting high SPLs into such an acoustic environment is straight-up stupid. And yes, it was ear-splitting. I was there.

I can tell that they use the same clips of the crowd over and over again; there's a high pitched giggle in the left ear that plays every few seconds when there's cheering. I think the crowd is probably too subdued on the bootleg, but I haven't listened to it in years. It was certainly subdued being there; my dad thinks that a lot of the people in the upper mezzanine with us were Berklee parents.

I don't think that the audio was problematic on the source recordings for any reason. I think that the release sounds extremely artificial because that was the aesthetic they were pushing at the time. Live at Luna Park is one of the fakest-sounding things I've ever heard. I don't even like to watch it. Even the studio version of DTXII sounds pretty robotic throughout.

And just think: JP he stood right in front of those 4x12s during the encore.  And this was just at the one show that I saw.  He does this night after night. 
I often wonder how much those in ear monitors block, if anything.
I have Etyomtic IEMs with triple-flange tips which block out more than the Heroes High Fidelity (and various Vic Firth/Zildjian rebadges). I would think that custom molded block out at least as much as them.

On-stage is actually not nearly as loud, as I understand it. Most of the time, JP's stage cabs were dummies; they were disconnected, and his real cabs were off-stage. Beyond that, they were mic'd. They run at a much lower volume than you may think.

In the nineties, though, back with the old-fashioned monitors, I believe that MP remarked that it was as loud on stage as it was in the audience.

Dream Theater at the Oakdale in CT on the Train of Thought tour was the loudest thing I've ever experienced, and that includes the time at Pratt and Whitney when I got to hang out in the jet engine testing facility. I was was legitimately disoriented walking out of the venue.
I know we discussed this elsewhere on the board, but my Dad has corroborated a similar account for the previous tour, the one with Queensryche.

CT/Oakdale this year was not particularly loud, btw, but it's been tolerable at every show I've seen there in at least ten years. Wallingford NIMBYs may have something to do with that. My cousin, seated under the balcony, thought it was pretty loud, but I dunno if he really knows what "loud" is yet. I was seated towards the back of the section directly afront the stage, and thought the levels were fine. I thought the same when I was directly in front of Petrucci for The Astonishing. I don't remember how loud the 2009 show was; I was eleven, but I think I'd remember if it was unbearably loud. I do recall a bit of short-term tinnitus after Worcester 2010.

Personally, I bring a set of the Heroes high fidelity (except I think they're Vic Firth branded rn) to concerts. Unfortunately, when I saw MP's Shattered Fortress in NYC last year (quite a loud show IIRC), I found that the sub-bass still reverberated through my skull, and so things still felt muffled. I wore them for the opening act (sry Max) but let MP's drums enter my ears raw. Couldn't hear much in the subway afterward though.

Few pro concerts have been as harsh on ears than kids in a large basement playing shitty punk. I think my brass snare drum and cheap B8-alloy high hats, played with teenage vigor along to music via headphones, have done more harm to my ears than any concert. That got a lot better once I discovered IEMs.
"I raised the baby, I changed the baby's diapers.  Whenever the baby had projectile diarrhea, I was there in the line of fire.  I even got a little in my mouth!  I sacrificed so much for my baby.  Now my baby hates me and thinks Mike Mangini is its real father!"

Online El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 30671
  • Bad Craziness
Some of the posts above suggest that the volume is to cover up JLB's voice being uneven or comes from a lack of confidence in the music. I don't get either of these theories in light of the simpler explanation that Dream Theater's trying to put on a good rock show. I've never really loved A Nightmare to Remember. But, live, when Jordan's opening piano reverberates through the halls, then jumps into the ABSOLUTELY MASSIVE sounding guitar chords, with the sound of the Toms vibrating through your chest, I was made into a fan.
Yep. My takeaway from it is that JP is one of those guys that appreciates a good and loud rock concert. More power to him.

Something else that hadn't occurred to me is that a lot of us are pretty spoiled in terms of being right up front for DT shows. They don't sell a ton of tickets, and plenty here are able to buy the VIP seats. Metty will chime in, as he was right in front of one of the biggest stage-fill cabinets I've ever seen last night. I've been front row at a couple of DT gigs, and at one of them a pretty cheap stage-fill speaker rattled me pretty good. Not deafeningly loud, but all in the upper ranges. Perhaps that might be part of the issue here. It's pretty easy to get in front of the sweet spot.

In any case, I noticed a definite difference in SPL between the two sets. Don't know if it was intentional or not, but we both thought there was nothing egregious at all about set 1 last night. Set two was pretty loud. Certainly not ear-splitting, but a good punch in the chest thumping. Exactly as it should be, IMO. DT has always been pretty loud by modern standards, and last night was probably the best example. By which I mean best quality. I've heard them louder, but this was perfect, I thought.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline RipRokken

  • Posts: 29
I used Ear Peace plugs last night in Dallas with the default red filters. They worked great, but this show definitely didn’t seem ear-splittingly loud and I felt I could have gotten by with the clear (lightest) filters. I barely had them seated in my ears and would occasionally pull them out if the drums weren’t thundering. Finished the show from “One Last Time” to the end without them in at all.

Have to say JLB sounded absolutely fantastic even with the plugs in, which I’d think would highlight more issues than full sound. He knocked it out of the park!

Online El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 30671
  • Bad Craziness
I used Ear Peace plugs last night in Dallas with the default red filters. They worked great, but this show definitely didn’t seem ear-splittingly loud and I felt I could have gotten by with the clear (lightest) filters. I barely had them seated in my ears and would occasionally pull them out if the drums weren’t thundering. Finished the show from “One Last Time” to the end without them in at all.

Have to say JLB sounded absolutely fantastic even with the plugs in, which I’d think would highlight more issues than full sound. He knocked it out of the park!
You were 3 rows in front of me. Were you getting your sound from the mains or from the stage fill? I was definitely in front of the left side mains, but just barely.

And yeah, it was a good night for JLB.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline TexansDT

  • Posts: 45
Want to thank bosk1 and MusicMaker (and everyone else for that matter) for the heads-up on the sound levels... if my wife and I had not brought our Hearos I'm not sure we could've made it through the show.  We sat right behind the soundboard and it consistently pinged 110-115 dB during the show, maxing at 117.4 during the end of Finally Free.

That said, the show was still awesome!!!
If I seem superhuman, I have been misunderstood...

Offline RipRokken

  • Posts: 29
You were 3 rows in front of me. Were you getting your sound from the mains or from the stage fill? I was definitely in front of the left side mains, but just barely.

And yeah, it was a good night for JLB.
[/quote]

I’m guessing from the stage, at least after intermission. First half everyone in the front row didn’t stray too far out from our seats. Before the second set started, a few of us agreed we were going strait up to the stage as there were no barricades, so we were sort of in-between the front speakers. Such a good time and I can’t wait to do it again.

Offline goo-goo

  • Posts: 3168
I agree, the Etymotic  hearing protection plugs are great.

Used them last night. Can't complain. They did their job and I could hear the music unlike regular work plugs.

Offline cramx3

  • Chillest of the chill
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 34365
  • Gender: Male
On a side note, I've been attending 20-40 concerts a year for the last couple years now.  Just got my hearing tested and I passed with flying colors.  Never wore ear bugs to a concert before either.  The doc thought I was dumb for not doing so, but it seems to not have impacted me.... yet.