Public service announcement for those attending shows this tour: BRING EAR PLUGS

[Samsara]

I was at The Wiltern last Friday.  Yes, it was loud.  News flash, it's supposed to be loud.  I've never worn ear plugs to a concert because I want to hear it.  Otherwise, there's no point in going. 

If you get the right ear plugs, you can have the best of both worlds - hearing protection and the ability to hear the concert without it being muffled. 

[gzarruk]

Tinnitus is no small deal. Looks like a lot of people here have been struggling with that, and that sucks. Hope you guys get better at some point. I heard Al Di Meola got tinnitus and that's why he almost never plays electric guitar anymore, only acoustic.

Reading all these posts makes me feel better that DT never comes here on their touring cycles

[Samsara]

Tinnitus is no small deal. Looks like a lot of people here have been struggling with that, and that sucks. Hope you guys get better at some point. I heard Al Di Meola got tinnitus and that's why he almost never plays electric guitar anymore, only acoustic.

On behalf of all of us, thanks. It sucks. I am really careful nowadays to preserve what I have left. After 227 concerts, I have to be. I am sure my fellow tinnitus-suffering folks all do the same.

[PMA]

I was at The Wiltern last Friday.  Yes, it was loud.  News flash, it's supposed to be loud.  I've never worn ear plugs to a concert because I want to hear it.  Otherwise, there's no point in going. 

If you get the right ear plugs, you can have the best of both worlds - hearing protection and the ability to hear the concert without it being muffled. 

There is a brand called DUBS that works this way.  It reduces the dB level by 12 but allows all frequencies through.

[Anxiety35]

Tinnitus is no joke. I have it in my right ear. Constant ringing. It started about 7 years ago. It also feels like my ear is full.

It developed over time by going to a lot of concerts and my drumming. Both of which I didn't use ear plugs.

As for the venue sound, no 2 places are alike. Acoustics are different. I've watched guys work sound boards at venues and they're trying to get the best sound possible. One guy told me that it sometimes takes half a concert set to have the sound dialed in to where they like it.

[pg1067]

Interesting thread.

I've been going to concerts -- mostly metal -- for 35 years and have never once worn or even thought about wearing earplugs.  I have no idea if my hearing has suffered as a result, but I subjectively think I have pretty good hearing.

When I took my then 9-year old son to see Rush in 2011, I bought him these earplugs:  https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0044DEESS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

When I took my 15-year old daughter to see Panic at the Disco last month, she didn't wear ear plugs (even though she has her own set of the same earplugs for occasional use while playing piccolo in her high school marching band).  Obviously, PATD isn't a metal band, which is probably why it didn't even occur to me to suggest that she wear her earplugs.

[goo-goo]

Thanks for the recommendations. I was actually going to ask which earplugs you guys wear. I use earplugs for some of the work I do but they don't offer the best protection and can get uncomfortable. Do the DUBS earplugs work?

I have tinnitus. Gets really bad during the nights when I'm trying to sleep. It's not bad enough for me but there's no cure for it. A colleague at work went through some hypnosis/meditation stuff and he doesn't have it. Well, he still does, but he just doesn't notice it.

[Samsara]

When I took my then 9-year old son to see Rush in 2011, I bought him these earplugs:  https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0044DEESS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

I wear these. There are more expensive ones on the market that are a bit better, but for the price point, I have been satisfied with these.

[cramx3]

I took my father to see DT during the DT12 tour, he said his ears were ringing for days after that.  I had no issues.  My ears are already past that damage. 

[Dublagent66]

Tinnitus is no small deal. Looks like a lot of people here have been struggling with that, and that sucks. Hope you guys get better at some point. I heard Al Di Meola got tinnitus and that's why he almost never plays electric guitar anymore, only acoustic.

On behalf of all of us, thanks. It sucks. I am really careful nowadays to preserve what I have left. After 227 concerts, I have to be. I am sure my fellow tinnitus-suffering folks all do the same.

227 shows?    No wonder you need ear plugs.  I've been attending concerts for more than 30 years but the amount of shows I've seen probably isn't even half that amount.  That would probably explain why I'm not experiencing problems even though I've never worn ear plugs.

[Samsara]

I know tons of people have me WAY beat on the total number. Dream Theater is #2 on my list - 14 times. Queensryche - 36 (last was 2013), Dream Theater - 14 (last was on Sunday) - Tesla - 11 (last was 2012), Sevendust - 10 (last was 2014), and Fates Warning - 8 (as of next week, as I have three gigs from them coming up)

My wife is in the 250s (she got started a few years before me). Her hearing is pristine -- she has always worn hearing protection.

[DT1138]

I'm glad to see that you all take this subject seriously.  As stated above, tinnitus is no joke and whatever hearing you lose is gone forever.

After my first two rock concerts back in the 80s, I swore off of never being without earplugs ever again.  The 2nd show I saw was Poison opening for Quiet Riot and every time Bret Michaels would scream into the mic it would throw my equilibrium off to the point that I had to hold onto the chair in front of me.  My ears rang for probably 3 days after that.  Never again, I said, and now I always take ear plugs even to all shows, even ones that I don't expect to be loud. 

I hate having to deal with the plugs because getting them seated just right can be a pain and the foam ones cut off a lot of the high end.   Also turning your head can sometimes unseat them and then it takes a bit to get them back in place. The benefits outweigh the negatives, however. I've tried all different kinds and currently use Eargasm ones that don't block the highs so much.  They itch somewhat when they are in, but they work and that's all that matters.

I used foam ones at the Dream Theater 2017 show, and then the Eargasm ones at the G3 show in Feb 2018.  At G3, I was about 8 rows from the stage.  JP's two Mesa 4x12 cabs were drowning out everything else during the encore - I literally could not hear anything but JP.  Even with the plugs in, my ears got fatigued very quickly from the volume.  The audience members in front of me and in direct line of fire from JPs speakers had no ear plugs and they were sitting there like nothing special was going on.  If they weren't already deaf from that single show, they have to be well on their way.  Regardless, because of situations like this, you almost need ear plugs just to decipher what the hell is going on.

And just think: JP he stood right in front of those 4x12s during the encore.  And this was just at the one show that I saw.  He does this night after night. 
I often wonder how much those in ear monitors block, if anything.

[ytserush]

Always wear ear plugs.  Started in the late '80s I think. Didn't really like the ringing  noise after the shows.

And in my experience, Dream Theater shows in this decade have been really loud.

[El Barto]

DT plays a bit louder than most bands I see nowadays, but nothing absurd. For those of us that were catching metal shows back in the early 80's they're downright quiet. Like others I've got 250+ shows under my belt and last time it was tested my hearing was consistent with a person my age. We're all going to suffer some HF hearing loss. Such is life.

"Damage" is a strange thing in this context. The professional opinion is that infrequent exposure to loud music isn't a problem. Singing for ACDC every night certainly is. What I've learned over the years is that most people can enjoy a ridiculously loud concert with no long term effect. A very small subset of the population can go to one concert and leave with tinnitus so bad they go insane and blow their brains out. It's actually very similar to drug use, which is tolerable for most and debilitating for a handful. Of course the problem is that you don't know if you're in that minority until you're deaf or in a state of drug induced psychosis, so there's certainly some risk involved.

Personally, I'm just thankful that I have no problem. Crank that shit up. 

And I've recounted the story before, but Metallica pulled a stunt that was actually loud enough to piss me off. During one of the Summer Sanitarium tours Hetfield missed 2 shows because of his usual "summer mishap." They tacked on replacement shows at the end of the tour. Rather than one stadium gig they played two shed gigs in Dallas using the same PA. They stacked and flew everything that could fit up front, and put everything else at the back behind chain-link fencing. Until that point World Slaver and Theater of Pain were probably the two loudest shows I'd seen, and those were piano recitals compared to this Metallica show. Eric Adams would have chastised them for that shit. I had to leave for a bit in the middle of it, and out in the concourse area it looked like the rail-yard scene from Gone With the Wind. The thing that I remember vividly was that when they played the intro to One, the prerecorded helicopter and machine gun noises completely drowned out the explosions. You could see and feel them but they were mostly silent.

[RipRokken]

Yes... I’m hearing enough about the ridiculous volume now that I will definitely come prepared. I’m also used to loud volume and have been to a ton of concerts. Luckily, it seems many bands play at reasonable levels these days, but I do seem to have some very mild ringing in my ears that I notice mainly late at night. Not enough to be a hassle, but does make me wonder if I have some very mild tinnitus. I’m not interested in risking my hearing further, lol. I just don’t get the need to play so freaking loud to the point people have to wear protection.

[Madman Shepherd]

Thanks for the advice. I took it and bought some earplugs. A year ago I had a scare where the typical ringing in my ears didn't go away in a day or so and I think I may have done some permanent damage. Still, I would almost rather not go to shows then to have a crappy muted sound. I splurged and bought 10 dollar fender earplugs and they were awesome. Really only blocked out the extremes and still sounded loud and crisp. I heard each member perfectly.

[Thoughtspart3]

I have not seen a lot of shows but from the ones I have seen it has been different at each venue.  It all depends on who is working the soundboard. I thought the TA show I saw in Wilkes Barre PA at the Kirby center was too loud. James voice was swallowed up by the wall of sound.  I saw the Neal Morse band on the current tour at the Keswick Theater in Philly and thought it was loud but it did not become painful and you could hear everything well. Thought they got it about right.  Was at a concert Friday night with a bunch of different bands. One must have requested that the levels be turned down because it was noticably quieter.  It was so much more enjoyable! Next band, wall of sound. 

Honestly there is just no reason to dial it up into painful territory. Damaging your hearing is no joke.  Isn't there something obviously wrong if we need to put out warnings to bring earplugs?     

[bosk1]

Isn't there something obviously wrong if we need to put out warnings to bring earplugs?

IMO, yes, there is.  And the band seem to recognize that fact since, again, two of them asked me at the show if I had some.  The band is painfully aware (pun intended) that it is an issue.

[Skeever]

Always wear earplugs. Also, do yourself a favor, and spend on a good pair. Like these: https://www.amazon.com/EarPeace-Concert-Ear-Plugs-Protection/dp/B076VTXWBP/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=high+def+ear+plugs&qid=1554137903&s=gateway&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1

You'll notice that not only are you protecting your hearing, but the concert also sounds a lot better!

[cramx3]

Isn't there something obviously wrong if we need to put out warnings to bring earplugs?

IMO, yes, there is.  And the band seem to recognize that fact since, again, two of them asked me at the show if I had some.  The band is painfully aware (pun intended) that it is an issue.

They know it's an issue?  Couldn't that be fixed pretty quickly and easily.  I'm not a fan of it being too loud, but it seems with these nice theaters they play in, it would be best to not be so loud to let the buildings acoustics to help create a nice live sound.  I'm not audiophile though.

[CrimsonE]

I've been going to concerts for over 30 years, and early on, I realized my enjoyment of the show was hampered by the loud music.  Thus, I have been bringing earplugs to most of the shows.  I may not have always worn them, but I did have them if needed. 

However, in the last few years, the earplugs have become moot, since I now wear hearing aids in both ears.  I have lost a great deal of hearing in both ears. To be fair, I've had hearing loss for much of my life, even before going to live shows, but I'm sure the live shows haven't helped, even with the ear plugs. 

Still, I cannot recommend strongly enough wearing some protection.. 

[Loggins]

The last two DT shows I went to there were a few isolated moments where there was distortion. Could be my ears (which are already bad) or maybe the speakers. I am not sure. In one sense I know they have to provide levels up to the high seats, but I like to sit close enough to see the guys, and that's when it's usually absurdly loud.

Not that I won't keep going, but earplugs make sense.

[abydos]

I've never used ear plugs, which should I get that are not too expensive and don't ruin the sound? Stuff like this perhaps - https://www.amazon.com/Fender-0990543000-Touring-Ear-Plugs/dp/B00AME3CMC ?

[jonny108]

As a semi pro musician and regular concert goer, I use these - https://www.amazon.com/EarPeace-Concert-Ear-Plugs-Protection/dp/B076VVP6CX/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=earpeace+hd&qid=1554290809&s=gateway&sr=8-3  By far the most comfortable earplugs outside of having moulds I've had. 

EDIT: Ninja'd by Skeever 

[badger]

Good thread.

The DT show I saw (with three friends) in Kansas City in 2014 on the DT12 tour was ear-splitting loud.  In fact, it was so loud that two of us went to the balcony for the second set to get some relief and it was still unbearably loud.  And I had ear plugs in, and it was still too much. 

The crazy thing is that I seen them four days earlier in Chicago and the volume there was perfect.

Just goes to show you how unpredictable the sound can be.

I was there and still feeling it

[abydos]

As a semi pro musician and regular concert goer, I use these - https://www.amazon.com/EarPeace-Concert-Ear-Plugs-Protection/dp/B076VVP6CX/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=earpeace+hd&qid=1554290809&s=gateway&sr=8-3  By far the most comfortable earplugs outside of having moulds I've had. 

Those are way above my budget, especially since I'm not a musician and there hasn't been a concert I've been to that was too loud. Small clubs don't raise too much noise.

[Grappler]

As a semi pro musician and regular concert goer, I use these - https://www.amazon.com/EarPeace-Concert-Ear-Plugs-Protection/dp/B076VVP6CX/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=earpeace+hd&qid=1554290809&s=gateway&sr=8-3  By far the most comfortable earplugs outside of having moulds I've had. 

Those are way above my budget, especially since I'm not a musician and there hasn't been a concert I've been to that was too loud. Small clubs don't raise too much noise.

If you don't want to spend too much, look for the Etymotic Ety Plugs.  Those are usually less than $20.

These types of earplugs cost more than the typical cheap, foam earplugs because they're specifically made to reduce the decibels, but not alter the frequencies of the sound.  So you can hear exactly what is coming out of the speakers, but at a lesser volume that doesn't damage your ears. 

A cheap, foam earplug will just block ALL sound going into the ear, but not filter it based on frequency.  So that leaves you with muddled, awful sound. 

I went years without wearing earplugs, thinking it wasn't cool, and can't believe I did that.  I wouldn't think of seeing a concert, even a local cover band in a bar, without my earplugs now.  The $15-$25 for a set of good earplugs is well worth the investment, and they really do work so well.  I pop my earplugs out now and then at concerts for a taste of that full-volume sound and it's so deafening. 

[King Postwhore]

The Show in Boston that was recorded for the Breaking the Fourth Wall Blu Ray was ear splitting. 

[El Barto]

The Show in Boston that was recorded for the Breaking the Fourth Wall Blu Ray was ear splitting.

That's interesting. Shows I've been to that were recorded for video have always been pretty quiet (relatively).

[cramx3]

The Show in Boston that was recorded for the Breaking the Fourth Wall Blu Ray was ear splitting.

That's interesting. Shows I've been to that were recorded for video have always been pretty quiet (relatively).

Maybe that explains why they had to fix the audio on that video.  The band probably drowned out that orchestra and they might not hvae been able to properly record the orchestra?  I remember people bitching abut the audio for that.

[King Postwhore]

It was ear piercing.  It my have been I was right under the start of the balcony and there was bouncing going on.

[abydos]

Is this perhaps why that live album sounds like it's a 5.1 mix played on a stereo setup? And the crowd sounds awfully doctored.

[TheGreatPretender]

I went to the show last night, and actually, I was surprised how not loud it was. Granted, I was pretty much right at the front, and the main, big speakers in the venue were at my sides, and aiming behind me, at the main area of the auditorium, but still, given the warning, I was expecting it to be louder. It didn't sound any louder than the Astonishing Show did, where I was in about the same place, in the same concert hall.
I brought earplugs, but right from the beginning, it sounded way too quiet with the earplugs for me, so I didn't use them, and overall, the sound was quite comfortable to my ears.
For the record, I recently decided to take a chance on these ones: https://www.amazon.com/Vibes-High-Fidelity-Concert-Earplugs/dp/B018WPOQSG
So yeah, they lower the volume quite a bit. I'd feel completely safe wearing them at an extreme metal concert.

I mean, it was loud, as a concert should be, of course, but compared to other concerts I've been to, where I'd sing along and wouldn't be able to hear myself even at the top of my lungs, in this one, I could hear myself singing along well enough, and I wasn't even singing at my maximum volume, so at least where I was sitting, it wasn't nearly as loud as I expected it to be.

[Joshgirouard]

I was first row mezzanine Center last night . Didn’t need earplugs and the mix and balance were actually quite good . One of the best balanced Dream Theater concerts (sound wise) I’ve ever been to (out of 12 DT shows)

[Max Kuehnau]

I've always worn ear protection for any DT concert I've ever attended, but thanks for the friendly reminder.