2019 set list and tour discussion (**KEEP ALL SPOILERS HERE**)

[cramx3]

I'd rather see disc 1 of SDOIT live than the song itself, just my opinion.

If they did that, it would give me a 20+ minute bathroom/merch stand/beer break after Misunderstood.  TGD and Disappear are, IMO, terrible songs that I hope never again see the light of day.

If they did disc 1 as a set, I do think disappear would just lead people to go to the bathroom early before intermission, ill give you that.  They'd have to do another song after, but TGD is solid.  I've never seen it live and would like to even if its not a favorite song of mine.

[zappafrank2112]

I've been really surprised by the less than enthusiastic response A Nightmare to Remember is getting from more than a few people ITT.

I think it's a great song.  Great groove, beautiful lilting middle section, tells a little story...

[JayOctavarium]

You spelled "Eve" and "Hollow Years" wrong.

CAAAARRY ME TO THE SHOOOOOORELIIIIIIINE!

[Lethean]

I would *love* to see Disappear live.  Sure, some people would go to the bathroom.  Happens to just about every ballad.  I don't care.  It's a beautiful song. 

[JayOctavarium]

As long as Disappear is played at it's recorded pace and doesn't feel severely sped up, I am all for seeing it live.

[EPIC Outro]

Disappear is the most haunting, beautiful song they've ever written. I think I need to see this one live more than any other.

Fun note: My awesome mom talked security at the Oakdale Theater into letting me stick around to meet the band after their 6 Degrees show nearly 20 years ago (she went too as she also loves DT). I told James "I can't believe you played 6 Degrees in it's entirety!" and he stared at me blankly and said "I don't think we did." Then he realized I meant the song, not the whole album, and  tiredly signed my shirt. 'Twas a moment!

[gzarruk]

I'd like to see an all (or mostly) rarities DT set, but I'm entirely sure it won't happen anyway.

[Setlist Scotty]

I'd like to see an all (or mostly) rarities DT set, but I'm entirely sure it won't happen anyway.

As much as we diehards would love that, it will *never* happen until MP returns (and I say that, not expecting him to).

I spoke with JP after the Milwaukee show, and we got to talking about a setlist I had e-mailed him as a joke that was full of "deep" cuts and rarities, which led to us talking about how they included DLPM in the setlist for the last run of shows in 2017. He said he was super excited about including it and figured the fans would be eating it up. But he said that outside of a couple of diehards in each audience going completely nuts, the vast majority of the audience just sat/stood there with blank expressions on their faces. So they dropped it. I'm sure that was the same reason why they dropped TLF a little later on in that same tour leg (despite the fact that it is much more well known), and I know it was the reason TGD was also dropped from the first proper run of shows they did in North America in 2011. I reminded him that it's OK for it to be that way, because there are the crazy diehards like us in every audience, few as we may be, that eat that stuff up and are the songs we live to hear them perform.

So for the time being, the best you can imagine getting would be one or two rarities in a show...that is until enough shows go by and JP opts to drop them in favor of something more popular. 

[Samsara]

I remember when they played DLPM in Oakland. There were like maybe 10 of us going bananas. Everyone else had no idea what they were playing. It was...shocking. But man, what a treat.

[JayOctavarium]

I remember when they played DLPM in Oakland. There were like maybe 10 of us going bananas. Everyone else had no idea what they were playing. It was...shocking. But man, what a treat.

I am so pissed at myself for missing DLPM! I skipped that tour. Pretty sure they played it in LA right? lol

[Chino]

I remember when they played DLPM in Oakland. There were like maybe 10 of us going bananas. Everyone else had no idea what they were playing. It was...shocking. But man, what a treat.

DLPM??

[Max Kuehnau]

I remember when they played DLPM in Oakland. There were like maybe 10 of us going bananas. Everyone else had no idea what they were playing. It was...shocking. But man, what a treat.

DLPM??

Don't Look Past Me (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3TjT_GblFc see here if you're not familiar with the piece. It was to appear on I/W back in the day but it was left off)

[EPIC Outro]

Setlist Scotty - Thanks for that insight. I always wondered why that song was dropped from their setlist. I hope they don't shy away from deep cuts completely.

[zappafrank2112]

they included DLPM in the setlist for the last run of shows in 2017. He said he was super excited about including it and figured the fans would be eating it up. But he said that outside of a couple of diehards in each audience going completely nuts, the vast majority of the audience just sat/stood there with blank expressions on their faces. So they dropped it. I'm sure that was the same reason why they dropped TLF a little later on in that same tour leg (despite the fact that it is much more well known), and I know it was the reason TGD was also dropped from the first proper run of shows they did in North America in 2011.

Phew, I got to catch all of these songs before they were dropped from these tours.  The Great Debate in particular looks to have been dropped immediately after my show in 2011 (Pittsburgh).

[cramx3]

I was happy to see TLF but was so bummed DLPM was dropped by the time they came to the east coast, its not a favorite song but it's a deep cut that would have been special to see.  I'm happy I got to see them do hourglass that tour, it was a nice gesture for the final night.  I really hope they don't abandon playing more rare songs though, even if its only for a few shows, those shows go down in history for those fans who get to see it as something more memorable than seeing TSCO for the 3rd time.  And I say that after absolutely loving seeing that song last week.

[pg1067]

they included DLPM in the setlist for the last run of shows in 2017. He said he was super excited about including it and figured the fans would be eating it up. But he said that outside of a couple of diehards in each audience going completely nuts, the vast majority of the audience just sat/stood there with blank expressions on their faces. So they dropped it.

Well...IMO, DLPM isn't a very good song, and James's performance of it wasn't particularly good (at least not at the show I saw).  I'm not sure why it would come as a surprise to anyone -- and especially not anyone in the band -- that very few people know these songs that were never "officially" released.  Maybe the reaction would have been a little different if James had introduced it before they played it and explained what it was and why they were playing it.  While DLPM might be well known here, I don't think this site is representative of DT's fan base as a whole.  It's like making a physics joke at a meeting of physics department TAs and getting a great reaction and expecting the same joke to get the same reaction in a commencement speech for an entire college.  Even a song like "To Live Forever," which got two official releases, isn't going to be really well known.  I don't know how well the "Lie" single or Greatest Hit sold, but I imagine most folks who had bought all of their albums saw no need for either (I didn't buy either, although I did buy the remixed version of PMU on Itunes).

I am so pissed at myself for missing DLPM! I skipped that tour. Pretty sure they played it in LA right? lol

Yup.  You didn't miss much (at least as far as that song goes -- the show as a whole was great).

[Nick]

I'd like to see an all (or mostly) rarities DT set, but I'm entirely sure it won't happen anyway.

As much as we diehards would love that, it will *never* happen until MP returns (and I say that, not expecting him to).

I spoke with JP after the Milwaukee show, and we got to talking about a setlist I had e-mailed him as a joke that was full of "deep" cuts and rarities, which led to us talking about how they included DLPM in the setlist for the last run of shows in 2017. He said he was super excited about including it and figured the fans would be eating it up. But he said that outside of a couple of diehards in each audience going completely nuts, the vast majority of the audience just sat/stood there with blank expressions on their faces. So they dropped it. I'm sure that was the same reason why they dropped TLF a little later on in that same tour leg (despite the fact that it is much more well known), and I know it was the reason TGD was also dropped from the first proper run of shows they did in North America in 2011. I reminded him that it's OK for it to be that way, because there are the crazy diehards like us in every audience, few as we may be, that eat that stuff up and are the songs we live to hear them perform.

So for the time being, the best you can imagine getting would be one or two rarities in a show...that is until enough shows go by and JP opts to drop them in favor of something more popular. 

Funny, DLPM and TGD are two of the three songs that have been played on tours I've seen them, along with Speak to Me, that got played but not at the show (or most likely) shows I went to. Really disappointed in not getting to hear those three, would love to, especially DLPM which I've always considered to be an awesome song.

[KevShmev]

I get why the band would drop a song if that were the case, though.  If the fans are really getting into every song, and then you play one and you get bored looks from most of the crowd, I get why they would be turned off by that and want to not play it anymore.  Sure, it pleases the .0001% of the diehards who are there that want to hear it, but it's not worth it to have a nightly buzzkill in the set.

[Architeuthis]

I remember when they played DLPM in Oakland. There were like maybe 10 of us going bananas. Everyone else had no idea what they were playing. It was...shocking. But man, what a treat.

DLPM??

Don't Look Past Me (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3TjT_GblFc see here if you're not familiar with the piece. It was to appear on I/W back in the day but it was left off)

Cool song! I have never heard it before.  Parts of it sound kind of like the band Triumph, at least to me.. Can definitely tell it was from the I&W era..

[Grizz]

You spelled "Eve" and "Hollow Years" wrong.

You absolute psychopath

I've been really surprised by the less than enthusiastic response A Nightmare to Remember is getting from more than a few people ITT.

I think it's a great song.  Great groove, beautiful lilting middle section, tells a little story...

I, for one, was very glad to have the opportunity to hear it live again. With the curtain drop, it was one of the best concert openers ever as far as I'm concerned...

[RaiseTheKnife]

Scotty, thanks for pushing for the rare cuts.  As long as JP knows that there is deep (albeit small) appreciation, there is always hope for the occasional rare gem.  I give DT significant credit for creating some dynamic (albeit mostly static) sets in recent years, including DLPM, The Shattered Fortress, The Bigger Picture and Space Dye Vest.

[Grizz]

Is The Bigger Picture really such a deep cut? It's only like six years old

[Setlist Scotty]

I get why the band would drop a song if that were the case, though.  If the fans are really getting into every song, and then you play one and you get bored looks from most of the crowd, I get why they would be turned off by that and want to not play it anymore.  Sure, it pleases the .0001% of the diehards who are there that want to hear it, but it's not worth it to have a nightly buzzkill in the set.

I disagree. Given the fact that you're talking about one or two songs at most in a setlist of that nature, they should be willing to include them for those diehards. At the very least, it will introduce songs to the audience that they might never otherwise be made aware of. Had that been the attitude, then Another Won and Raise the Knife wouldn't have been on Score, and there's plenty of fans that discovered those songs because of that live release, if not having seen the songs in person. As long as the songs are properly introduced, it should be something that most fans (aside from the casual fans) will find of interest.

Even then, just because people sit/stand with blank expressions on their faces isn't necessarily a bad thing - that's pretty much going to be the general reaction of most people upon hearing a song they're not familiar with for the first time. Since they're not familiar with the song, they're concentrating on the song itself to discover it.

And for those who are genuinely not interested in hearing a rare cut they don't know, so what? How many fans use the typical ballad or instrument solo as an opportunity for a piss break? Why should playing a rare cut be any different?
 
 

Scotty, thanks for pushing for the rare cuts.  As long as JP knows that there is deep (albeit small) appreciation, there is always hope for the occasional rare gem.

As a diehard who's seen as many shows as I have, you know I will. Funny thing - during that same conversation, JP even made a passing remark that it might be interesting if he had me write a future setlist. It goes without saying I'd jump at the chance, but I know he wasn't serious and that it'll never happen.

[Lethean]

Completely agree Scotty.  I don't really have much to add, but *definitely* agree that it's not a bad thing if the audience is more static for a song or two.  Some of them could be really enjoying it.  For Don't Look Past Me, I do think it would have helped a lot for James to have introduced it first.

If they're not going to do non-album tracks for a while, I at least hope they'll continue to revisit songs that haven't been played in a while.  Six Degrees definitely needs some representation next time around.

[H2]

I agree with KevShmev above. I'd like to see songs I know at a DT concert. I think many people would agree with me. The only exception I think would be  if they are recording a live album and want to get something new out there to raise its popularity.

What's TLF?

I was at the Nashville show and it was absolutely incredible. The volume wasn't bad either; I was fully comfortable without earbuds. I was in the orchestra, too (though admittedly a bit off to the side).

[SystematicThought]

TLF=To Live Forever

[erwinrafael]

Very nice. Birthday song for Mike.

https://youtu.be/2GwjmvZoabI

Love how JM went to him and hugged him right after the song.

[KevShmev]

I get why the band would drop a song if that were the case, though.  If the fans are really getting into every song, and then you play one and you get bored looks from most of the crowd, I get why they would be turned off by that and want to not play it anymore.  Sure, it pleases the .0001% of the diehards who are there that want to hear it, but it's not worth it to have a nightly buzzkill in the set.

I disagree. Given the fact that you're talking about one or two songs at most in a setlist of that nature, they should be willing to include them for those diehards. At the very least, it will introduce songs to the audience that they might never otherwise be made aware of. Had that been the attitude, then Another Won and Raise the Knife wouldn't have been on Score, and there's plenty of fans that discovered those songs because of that live release, if not having seen the songs in person. As long as the songs are properly introduced, it should be something that most fans (aside from the casual fans) will find of interest.

Even then, just because people sit/stand with blank expressions on their faces isn't necessarily a bad thing - that's pretty much going to be the general reaction of most people upon hearing a song they're not familiar with for the first time. Since they're not familiar with the song, they're concentrating on the song itself to discover it.

And for those who are genuinely not interested in hearing a rare cut they don't know, so what? How many fans use the typical ballad or instrument solo as an opportunity for a piss break? Why should playing a rare cut be any different?

Raise the Knife and Another Won were not played every night on a tour like Don't Look Past Me was at the beginning of the tour they played it.  Big, big difference.  If the band were doing a lot of rotations from show to show, then, yeah, I would say, "play a rare, non-album deep cut on occasion," but to play one that gets blank stares from almost everybody on a nightly basis?  Nah.  If the band is not feeling it, why should they keep playing it?  When Mike Portnoy was in the band, did he ever include a rare, non-album deep cut for every show of a tour (like the band did with Don't Look Past Me, before it was dropped)?

[cramx3]

Very nice. Birthday song for Mike.

https://youtu.be/2GwjmvZoabI

Love how JM went to him and hugged him right after the song.

That was awesome

I get why the band would drop a song if that were the case, though.  If the fans are really getting into every song, and then you play one and you get bored looks from most of the crowd, I get why they would be turned off by that and want to not play it anymore.  Sure, it pleases the .0001% of the diehards who are there that want to hear it, but it's not worth it to have a nightly buzzkill in the set.

I disagree. Given the fact that you're talking about one or two songs at most in a setlist of that nature, they should be willing to include them for those diehards. At the very least, it will introduce songs to the audience that they might never otherwise be made aware of. Had that been the attitude, then Another Won and Raise the Knife wouldn't have been on Score, and there's plenty of fans that discovered those songs because of that live release, if not having seen the songs in person. As long as the songs are properly introduced, it should be something that most fans (aside from the casual fans) will find of interest.

Even then, just because people sit/stand with blank expressions on their faces isn't necessarily a bad thing - that's pretty much going to be the general reaction of most people upon hearing a song they're not familiar with for the first time. Since they're not familiar with the song, they're concentrating on the song itself to discover it.

And for those who are genuinely not interested in hearing a rare cut they don't know, so what? How many fans use the typical ballad or instrument solo as an opportunity for a piss break? Why should playing a rare cut be any different?

Raise the Knife and Another Won were not played every night on a tour like Don't Look Past Me was at the beginning of the tour they played it.  Big, big difference.  If the band were doing a lot of rotations from show to show, then, yeah, I would say, "play a rare, non-album deep cut on occasion," but to play one that gets blank stares from almost everybody on a nightly basis?  Nah.  If the band is not feeling it, why should they keep playing it?  When Mike Portnoy was in the band, did he ever include a rare, non-album deep cut for every show of a tour (like the band did with Don't Look Past Me, before it was dropped)?

I am with Scotty because these are DT Evening With shows, there's more than enough time to play something less known. Even with blank stares.  Bands play new music all the time to blank stares even the biggest of bands.  While this example isn't a new song, it made sense with the setlist and theme of the night.  So did TLF. 

[Progmetty]

I get why the band would drop a song if that were the case, though.  If the fans are really getting into every song, and then you play one and you get bored looks from most of the crowd, I get why they would be turned off by that and want to not play it anymore.  Sure, it pleases the .0001% of the diehards who are there that want to hear it, but it's not worth it to have a nightly buzzkill in the set.

This + is it a standard to correlate hardcore fandom with deep cuts? I consider myself a hardcore fan of DT, I know DLPM, CYE & TLF but I'm not that fond of any of them and have no craving to hear them live, unless this is based solely on the idea of some kind of kick that comes from being at the show and saying "hey I know this song and most of these people don't!".

[KevShmev]

I should amend my stance to say that if the band is having a blast playing the song and want to keep playing it despite not getting a great reaction from fans, then, yeah, keep playing it, but from the way JP worded it, it sounds like the band was kinda bummed about the no reaction, and if it is hard for them to get "up" to play a song because of the non-reaction, then the performance might suffer a little and it is better to not play it.

That is why I never quibble about them playing songs like As I Am and The Spirit Carries On a lot, as they obviously love playing those songs, and the live crowds always go nuts for them.

[cramx3]

I think that's fair Kev, if the band isn't into it then there's no point.  I guess, I would think the band would enjoy playing something different but if the reaction is truly that bad, I don't blame them from moving away, I just would hope it doesn't discourage them from trying again. 

and lets be real, DLPM is a very very very deep cut.  Is there any other song that would be less likey to be known by the general crowd?  I almost feel like Raw Dog might have gotten a better reaction just because it's a newer more obscure song.

[nobloodyname]

I get why the band would drop a song if that were the case, though.  If the fans are really getting into every song, and then you play one and you get bored looks from most of the crowd, I get why they would be turned off by that and want to not play it anymore.  Sure, it pleases the .0001% of the diehards who are there that want to hear it, but it's not worth it to have a nightly buzzkill in the set.

[...]I know DLPM, CYE & TLF but I'm not that fond of any of them and have no craving to hear them live[...]

CME?

[KevShmev]

I think some of the songs that didn't make FII would also get blank stares from most. 

I also agree with the earlier point that JLB doing a quick lead-in, telling the crowd, "hey, here is an obscure non-album track we've never played before," would have helped a lot, as I'll bet most probably thought it was just a song from an album they weren't familiar with.  Fans might have perked up a bit more if they knew they were getting something that rare and special.

[zappafrank2112]

I was stoked for them to play To Live Forever when I saw the I&W25 show.  I had a feeling they would, b/c it's been a part of my concept of DT and I&W since the beginning.  I got into them when Pull Me Under hit MTV, and very soon after bought the Live in Japan VHS, and TLF was on there.  So I've known about it from the beginning of my fandom.  When JP started the intro arpeggio at the show, I legit was all "YEAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!"

I actually didn't know Don't Look Past Me b/c I don't have CotC   But it came across my radar that they were playing it, so I made sure to familiarize myself with it ahead of time.  I look at concerts like collecting live songs, so I'm glad to have it in my collection.

I missed the Octavarium tour proper, so I wouldn't have known Another Won (it was played at the show I would have attended in Cleveland), and would've been sad because if I'm not familiar with a song ahead of time, my live experience is diminished some b/c I don't know how to "listen" to the song in a way that maximizes its impact on me.