80's Rock/Metal/Pop Song Wars - Part III

[Big Hath]

One (Metallica) 5 points
Back in Black (AC/DC) 5 points
Mr. Crowley (Ozzy Osbourne) 5 points
Is This Love (Whitesnake) 4.5 points
Foolin' (Def Leppard) 4.5 points
Eyes of a Stranger (Queensyrche) 4.5 points
Welcome to the Jungle (Guns N' Roses) 4.5 points
Flight of Icarus (Iron Maiden) 4.5 points
And The Cradle Will Rock... (Van Halen) 4.5 points
Dr. Feelgood (Motley Crue) 4 points
Rock You Like a Hurricane (Scorpions) 4 points
Alone Again (Dokken) 4 points
Round and Round (Ratt) 3.5 points
Runaway (Bon Jovi) 3.5 points
Living After Midnight (Judas Priest) 2.5 points




Living After Midnight (Judas Priest), Foolin' (Def Leppard) & Dr. Feelgood (Motley Crue) - 11 points
One (Metallica), Rock You Like a Hurricane (Scorpions) & Alone Again (Dokken) - 13 points
Eyes of a Stranger (Queensyrche), Welcome to the Jungle (Guns N' Roses) & Round and Round (Ratt) - 12.5 points
Flight of Icarus (Iron Maiden), And The Cradle Will Rock... (Van Halen) & Runaway (Bon Jovi) - 12.5 points
Back in Black (AC/DC), Mr. Crowley (Ozzy Osbourne) & Is This Love (Whitesnake) - 14.5 points

[Stadler]

Oy; tough.  I used to play Livin'... and Rock... in my band, so there's that.   Love Rhoads, but not that song, so there's that...  HATE Dokken and Ratt, so there's THAT...

Probably go with four or five.

[TAC]

Love Rhoads, but not that song,

I’ll try not to take that personally.

[Stadler]

Love Rhoads, but not that song,

I’ll try not to take that personally.

HAHA, I was waiting for that.   It's more the album than the song.   I think Diary is almost perfect.

[pg1067]

I liked them live as well.

I didn't at first. Saw them open for Judas Priest in '86 and Aerosmith in '87. I thought Don Dokken was a douche. His stage banter blew.

But On the Monsters Of Rock tour, I thought they were really good.

I also saw them on their first reunion club tour in '95, and holy shit did that show smoke!

I also saw Dokken open for Priest on the Turbo tour.  I guess I liked them well enough that I saw them again about six months later as a headlining act.  I found it awfully amusing (for reasons I can't really explain) that Great White, who had opened for Priest on the Defenders tour two years earlier and whom I never liked, opened for Dokken.  I had pretty much lost any interest in Dokken by the time Back for the Attack came out the following year.

[Stadler]

I liked them live as well.

I didn't at first. Saw them open for Judas Priest in '86 and Aerosmith in '87. I thought Don Dokken was a douche. His stage banter blew.

But On the Monsters Of Rock tour, I thought they were really good.

I also saw them on their first reunion club tour in '95, and holy shit did that show smoke!

I also saw Dokken open for Priest on the Turbo tour.  I guess I liked them well enough that I saw them again about six months later as a headlining act.  I found it awfully amusing (for reasons I can't really explain) that Great White, who had opened for Priest on the Defenders tour two years earlier and whom I never liked, opened for Dokken.  I had pretty much lost any interest in Dokken by the time Back for the Attack came out the following year.

I'd've loved to have seen Great White live in the day.   I think Jack Russell is by far the best vocalist of all those second tier LA bands (Dokken, Ratt, Crue, LA Guns, Poison, Warrant, etc. etc.).    Apparently, though, he's not as good a human (and no, I'm not at all referencing the Station). 

[pg1067]

I liked them live as well.

I didn't at first. Saw them open for Judas Priest in '86 and Aerosmith in '87. I thought Don Dokken was a douche. His stage banter blew.

But On the Monsters Of Rock tour, I thought they were really good.

I also saw them on their first reunion club tour in '95, and holy shit did that show smoke!

I also saw Dokken open for Priest on the Turbo tour.  I guess I liked them well enough that I saw them again about six months later as a headlining act.  I found it awfully amusing (for reasons I can't really explain) that Great White, who had opened for Priest on the Defenders tour two years earlier and whom I never liked, opened for Dokken.  I had pretty much lost any interest in Dokken by the time Back for the Attack came out the following year.

I'd've loved to have seen Great White live in the day.   I think Jack Russell is by far the best vocalist of all those second tier LA bands (Dokken, Ratt, Crue, LA Guns, Poison, Warrant, etc. etc.).    Apparently, though, he's not as good a human (and no, I'm not at all referencing the Station).

The Priest show with Great White opening was my second concert ever, and I wasn't yet as picky about my metal as I ended up being.  The first Great White song I knew about was "Stick It," which I liked pretty well.  They also covered "Substitute" by The Who on their debut album, but that is and was far from a top Who song for me.  By the time GW opened for Dokken, they had released their second album, and "Face the Day" was getting a lot of radio play, and I couldn't stand that song.  The most successful GW songs were way too bluesy for my taste.

By the way, if Dokken, Crue and Ratt are "second tier LA bands," who's in the first-tier?  I assume Van Halen, but who else?  Also, GW, LA Guns and Warrant were/are definitely on a lower tier than the others mentioned.

[King Postwhore]

I remember that concert shirt from their tour opening for Priest.  There was a big middle finger on the back and above it said, "Stick It!"

I think they covered the Who's Substitute.

[Stadler]

By the way, if Dokken, Crue and Ratt are "second tier LA bands," who's in the first-tier?  I assume Van Halen, but who else?  Also, GW, LA Guns and Warrant were/are definitely on a lower tier than the others mentioned.

Well, I regretted putting Crue in there when I typed it, so...

I'd say Van Halen, Guns, Crue.

But Dokken, LA Guns, Warrant are all on the same tier, in my view, as Great White.  Remember, I'm east coast, so they all were basically a couple radio hits and either headlined a three-band package or were "special guest" openers. 

Poison and Ratt are the ones that give me the most trouble.   To this day, I'm blown away by how many platinum albums Ratt had.  I just don't get it, so there's that.  But while they might be a tier above the Dokken's of the world, they are not on Van Halen's level, or Guns'. 

[pg1067]

By the way, if Dokken, Crue and Ratt are "second tier LA bands," who's in the first-tier?  I assume Van Halen, but who else?  Also, GW, LA Guns and Warrant were/are definitely on a lower tier than the others mentioned.

Well, I regretted putting Crue in there when I typed it, so...

I'd say Van Halen, Guns, Crue.

But Dokken, LA Guns, Warrant are all on the same tier, in my view, as Great White.  Remember, I'm east coast, so they all were basically a couple radio hits and either headlined a three-band package or were "special guest" openers. 

Poison and Ratt are the ones that give me the most trouble.   To this day, I'm blown away by how many platinum albums Ratt had.  I just don't get it, so there's that.  But while they might be a tier above the Dokken's of the world, they are not on Van Halen's level, or Guns'.

Yeah:  Van Halen, GnR and probably Crue are top-tier (much as it pains me to say "GnR" and "top-tier" in the same sentence).  In theory, you could include Metallica, but I think everyone thinks of them as an SF band.

Second tier would be Ratt, Dokken and Poison.  The others mentioned are down a notch.

Thing of it is that, with the exception of the first five VH albums, the first two Crue albums a few assorted Ratt, Dokken and Warrant songs, everything mentioned sucks balls.

[Cool Chris]

I loved Great White in the Once Bitten/Twice Shy days. One of my favorites from that era and those two CDs got a ton of spins.

GW did a set on TV (Unplugged on MTV?*) and they did Babe I'm Gonna Leave You. I wasn't in to classic rock at the time so didn't know it as a LZ song, and I loved it, yet couldn't track down what song it was or what album it was on.

Danced with Casey Acker to The Angel Song at a middle school dance. One of my middle school highlights. That and Save Your Love were two of my favorite ballads.

*yep confirmed by YouTube.

[cramx3]

So I actually don't know any Dokken, and they just played by me last Saturday night.  I had a ticket (I bought a rock bundle for a bunch of concerts at a discount) but sold this ticket because I had ust come home from europe and knew I would be too tired for a band I wasn't familiar with.  Apparently they didn't go on until 1130, 90 minutes after the last band  People were complaining on the venues' social media and they blamed it on the band.  Glad I didn't go.

[Stadler]

By the way, if Dokken, Crue and Ratt are "second tier LA bands," who's in the first-tier?  I assume Van Halen, but who else?  Also, GW, LA Guns and Warrant were/are definitely on a lower tier than the others mentioned.

Well, I regretted putting Crue in there when I typed it, so...

I'd say Van Halen, Guns, Crue.

But Dokken, LA Guns, Warrant are all on the same tier, in my view, as Great White.  Remember, I'm east coast, so they all were basically a couple radio hits and either headlined a three-band package or were "special guest" openers. 

Poison and Ratt are the ones that give me the most trouble.   To this day, I'm blown away by how many platinum albums Ratt had.  I just don't get it, so there's that.  But while they might be a tier above the Dokken's of the world, they are not on Van Halen's level, or Guns'.

Yeah:  Van Halen, GnR and probably Crue are top-tier (much as it pains me to say "GnR" and "top-tier" in the same sentence).  In theory, you could include Metallica, but I think everyone thinks of them as an SF band.

Second tier would be Ratt, Dokken and Poison.  The others mentioned are down a notch.

Thing of it is that, with the exception of the first five VH albums, the first two Crue albums a few assorted Ratt, Dokken and Warrant songs, everything mentioned sucks balls.

Honestly, I think most if not all Dikken sucks balls.  My buddy was into them and it never clicked with me.  Even George Lynch.  I get it, he's great, but not for me. 

[King Postwhore]

I don't get it. Dokken had integrity for a hair metal band. I liked them a ton.

[TAC]

By the way, if Dokken, Crue and Ratt are "second tier LA bands," who's in the first-tier?  I assume Van Halen, but who else?  Also, GW, LA Guns and Warrant were/are definitely on a lower tier than the others mentioned.

Well, I regretted putting Crue in there when I typed it, so...

I'd say Van Halen, Guns, Crue.

But Dokken, LA Guns, Warrant are all on the same tier, in my view, as Great White.  Remember, I'm east coast, so they all were basically a couple radio hits and either headlined a three-band package or were "special guest" openers. 

Poison and Ratt are the ones that give me the most trouble.   To this day, I'm blown away by how many platinum albums Ratt had.  I just don't get it, so there's that.  But while they might be a tier above the Dokken's of the world, they are not on Van Halen's level, or Guns'.

Yeah:  Van Halen, GnR and probably Crue are top-tier (much as it pains me to say "GnR" and "top-tier" in the same sentence).  In theory, you could include Metallica, but I think everyone thinks of them as an SF band.

Second tier would be Ratt, Dokken and Poison.  The others mentioned are down a notch.

Thing of it is that, with the exception of the first five VH albums, the first two Crue albums a few assorted Ratt, Dokken and Warrant songs, everything mentioned sucks balls.

Ratt doesn't really belong in the same grouping as Dokken. Or Poison (who I hate) for that matter

[pg1067]

By the way, if Dokken, Crue and Ratt are "second tier LA bands," who's in the first-tier?  I assume Van Halen, but who else?  Also, GW, LA Guns and Warrant were/are definitely on a lower tier than the others mentioned.

Well, I regretted putting Crue in there when I typed it, so...

I'd say Van Halen, Guns, Crue.

But Dokken, LA Guns, Warrant are all on the same tier, in my view, as Great White.  Remember, I'm east coast, so they all were basically a couple radio hits and either headlined a three-band package or were "special guest" openers. 

Poison and Ratt are the ones that give me the most trouble.   To this day, I'm blown away by how many platinum albums Ratt had.  I just don't get it, so there's that.  But while they might be a tier above the Dokken's of the world, they are not on Van Halen's level, or Guns'.

Yeah:  Van Halen, GnR and probably Crue are top-tier (much as it pains me to say "GnR" and "top-tier" in the same sentence).  In theory, you could include Metallica, but I think everyone thinks of them as an SF band.

Second tier would be Ratt, Dokken and Poison.  The others mentioned are down a notch.

Thing of it is that, with the exception of the first five VH albums, the first two Crue albums a few assorted Ratt, Dokken and Warrant songs, everything mentioned sucks balls.

Honestly, I think most if not all Dikken sucks balls.  My buddy was into them and it never clicked with me.  Even George Lynch.  I get it, he's great, but not for me.

"Dikken," eh?   

I bought Tooth and Nail and Under Lock and Key, but I didn't re-buy either album on CD when I trashed my vinyl records 20+ years ago.  I was discussing Dokken with a guy at work a while back, and we listened to a couple songs, and that was probably the first time I had listened to anything by Dokken in that same time period.  That being said, I think "Into the Fire," "Alone Again" and "Lightning Strikes Again" are pretty good songs.  Everything else is no better than "meh."

Ratt doesn't really belong in the same grouping as Dokken. Or Poison (who I hate) for that matter

Hmmm...putting aside the actual relationship between Ratt and Dokken, they always seemed to me to be on pretty much the same level.  Both had relatively brief flashes around 84-88.  Ratt has better sales numbers, and Dokken has a larger catalog, and neither has had had any relevance since the 80s.  As far as hating Poison, I'm right there with you, but Poison unfathomably outsold Ratt and Dokken combined.

[TAC]

Somehow Ratt got that headline tour in 1985, but I suspect Bon Jovi was the major draw.


I'd be shocked that Ratt outsold Dokken. Dokken had a longer initial run, and was way more consistent.

[pg1067]

Soehow Ratt got that headline tour in 1985, but I suspect Bon Jovi was the major draw.


I'd be shocked that Ratt outsold Dokken. Dokken had a longer initial run, and was way more consistent.

It surprised me too...

Wikipedia shows that each of Dokken's first three albums (not including Breaking the Chains) went platinum.

By contrast, Ratt's first four albums went 3x, 2x, 1x and 1x platinum, and the fifth went gold.

Poison's first four went 3x, 5x and 3x platinum and gold.

None of that takes non-U.S. sales into account.

In terms of post-1990 output (and not including live or compilation albums), Ratt released two albums, Poison released four, and Dokken released seven.  Of those 13 albums, only one (Poison's Native Tongue in 1993) went gold.  Of the 13, 10 charted (the three that didn't were Dokken albums), and the average high chart position was 98.

In terms of songs that I'd actually listen to now, I believe the score is Dokken 3 (as mentioned above, Ratt 1 (You Think You're Tough), Poison 0.

[KevShmev]

Somehow Ratt got that headline tour in 1985, but I suspect Bon Jovi was the major draw.


I'd be shocked that Ratt outsold Dokken. Dokken had a longer initial run, and was way more consistent.

You defending Dokken makes me giggle, I gotta admit.

As for Ratt vs. Dokken, based on MTV watching alone, I would have guessed that Ratt was bigger than Dokken back then.  Dream Warriors and the other two hits from Back for the Attack got heavy video play, but I don't remember seeing much else by them.  Meanwhile, Ratt had probably 8-10 videos that got played a ton for about a 5-year stretch, none of which have aged well for me at all. 

[Stadler]

I wrote this before in a slightly different way, but "Ratt" is the "Vince Papale" (google it) of LA hair metal.   They sold WAY more records than they had any right to, and it's not like they had tons of ubiquitous singles.  They didn't even have the obligatory ballad!    "Round and Round" the really huge hit, but beyond that, you've got "Lay It Down" and "Way Cool, Jr.".   And yet, they sold MULTIPLES of the other bands in that scene.  And for the life of me, I cannot figure out why.   Stephen Pearcy's voice is like fingers on a chalkboard to me.  It just sounds so fake to me (as compared to Dokken, Russell, Michaels...).  The only one close - in terms of fakery - is Vince Neil.

Speaking of Jack Russell again, I bought his solo album "For You" online for like a buck, and finally decided to listen to it yesterday in the car.  WAY more mellow than I expected - it's almost soft rock in nature - and imagine my surprise when I find out the band (and songwriters) are.... Bob Kulick (Kiss, Meat Loaf, Mike Bolton), Billy Sherwood (Yes, Asia), Tony Levin (don't need to say more) and Vinnie Colaiuta (Frank Zappa, Jeff Fucking Beck). 

Now, it should be said, I also just heard "Back Against The Wall", a song for song recreation of Pink Floyd's "The Wall" by Sherwood and Kulick, using some AMAZING musicians (most of Yes, all of Asia, several members of King Crimson, Dweezil, Glenn Hughes, Keith Emerson, etc. etc.).

[pg1067]

I wrote this before in a slightly different way, but "Ratt" is the "Vince Papale" (google it) of LA hair metal.   They sold WAY more records than they had any right to, and it's not like they had tons of ubiquitous singles.  They didn't even have the obligatory ballad!    "Round and Round" the really huge hit, but beyond that, you've got "Lay It Down" and "Way Cool, Jr.".   And yet, they sold MULTIPLES of the other bands in that scene.  And for the life of me, I cannot figure out why.   Stephen Pearcy's voice is like fingers on a chalkboard to me.  It just sounds so fake to me (as compared to Dokken, Russell, Michaels...).  The only one close - in terms of fakery - is Vince Neil.

I honestly couldn't name a Ratt ballad.  Nor do I have the slightest idea what "Way Cool, Jr." sounds like (I recognize the name, but it was on Ratt's fourth album, which was at least two years after I gave up on the band).  The Vince Papale analogy isn't a perfect one (assuming I understand it correctly), but I pretty much agree with all of this (although there were a couple other songs that were big out here:  "You Think You're Tough," "Lack of Communication" and "Wanted Man").

[KevShmev]

At the time , I enjoyed the three "hits" from Dancing Undercover - Dance, Slip of the Lip and Body Talk - but have no use for any of them now. Way Cool, Jr. was the one I liked the most back then.

[WildRanger]

I genuinely dislike these songs from the poll: Foolin, Dr Feelgood, Alone Again, Runaway and Is This Love

I went with third option. Eyes of a Stranger is maybe my favorite Queensryche song, Welcome to the Jungle kicks ass and Round and Round is one of very few hair metal hits that I can tolerate.

[ReaperKK]

Never heard the dokken song but went with that pick on thebstrenght of the other two songs