Poll

...and which one is your favorite?

A Change of Seasons
86 (40.2%)
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
35 (16.4%)
Octavarium
70 (32.7%)
In the Presence of Enemies
10 (4.7%)
The Count of Tuscany
8 (3.7%)
Illumination Theory
5 (2.3%)

Total Members Voted: 214

Author Topic: Rank the Dream Theater mega-epics  (Read 3848 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Revenge319

  • I once thought it better to regret...
  • Posts: 417
  • Gender: Male
Re: Rank the Dream Theater mega-epics
« Reply #70 on: July 22, 2020, 06:26:11 PM »
A Change of Seasons > Octavarium > The Count of Tuscany > Illumination Theory > Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence > In the Presence of Enemies

The first five are in my Top 10 Dream Theater songs, ITPOE is in my Top 20.

Offline Elite

  • The 'other' Rich
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 15124
  • Gender: Male
  • also, a tin teardrop
    • Overhaul
Re: Rank the Dream Theater mega-epics
« Reply #71 on: July 23, 2020, 04:16:02 AM »
Okay, why not?

1. A Change of Seasons
- easily

2. Octavarium
- though this track is a close runner-up, so it's not that easy

3. In the Presence of Enemies
- cool song, though a pretty large quality drop from Octavarium

(Quality drop)

4. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
- the separate parts work way better than the song as a whole for me

5. The Count of Tuscany
- I used to dislike this track a lot, but I like it better nowadays

(Quality gap)

6. Illumination Theory
- this is Dream Theater at their worst. Bloated, pointless lyrics, nothing memorable whatsoever about this one.
Hey dude slow the fuck down so we can finish together at the same time.  :biggrin:
Squ
scRa are the resultaten of sound nog bring propey

Offline TheOutlawXanadu

  • The Original Unseasoned Fan
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 6568
  • Gender: Male
  • The Original Unseasoned Fan
Re: Rank the Dream Theater mega-epics
« Reply #72 on: July 24, 2020, 10:37:03 AM »
In my opinion, ACOS and 8VM are in a class of their own, which is not a dig at the other songs but rather a sign of how great I feel those songs are. I would put the other songs on approximately the same level. SDOIT is a really difficult one to pin down because I find it really hard to listen to all 42 minutes at once, but I love the individual parts.
:TOX: <-- My own emoticon!

Offline El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 24750
  • Bad Craziness
Re: Rank the Dream Theater mega-epics
« Reply #73 on: July 24, 2020, 03:36:23 PM »
Normally by the time I get to these things I can just find the guy with my list and quote it. Maybe add a thumbs up or something. Nobody got it this time around.

ACoS
ItPoE
6D

8V

And the rest

I've got no problem regarding Enemies as one song. Still very similar in tone, style, and theme, and they both begin and end at the same place. When Pink Floyd split Dogs over two tracks of an 8-Track nobody called it two songs, and I think there was a similar thought process here. Also, as craptacular as the Chaos in Motion DVD was, that rendition of Enemies is fantastic. Bosk rightly singled out the Live Scenes version of Seasons, and CiM does the same thing for Enemies.

Six Degrees is a collection of 8 songs. I've got no problem calling it a suite, just like 12 Step, but calling it a single song is simply daft.

8V is a fine piece of work, if perhaps a little overrated in my book.

Count and that other one are uninteresting and more than a little underwhelming. With DT epics you kind of expect everything to build up to something greater than the sum of the parts. That never happens with these two. Count just sounds like an overlong DT song, and while IT sticks the ending, nothing building up to it really mattered.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline Nachtmerrie

  • Posts: 256
Re: Rank the Dream Theater mega-epics
« Reply #74 on: July 27, 2020, 12:24:20 PM »
1. A Change of Seasons - eays choice, my all time favorite DT-song

2. In the Presence of Enemies - fantastic intro and overall a song that display their technical abilities without being too much
3. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence  - it doesn't feel like an epic but a collection of great songs
4. Octavarium - great song, great build-up but a little overrated

5. The Count of Toscany - great intro, great end. The rest isn't that good at all


6. Illumination Theory - the end is great but most of the times I don't make it that far into the song.

Offline Kram

  • Posts: 67
Re: Rank the Dream Theater mega-epics
« Reply #75 on: July 27, 2020, 02:17:10 PM »
A Change of Seasons
Octavarium

SDOIT

ITPOE

The Count of Toscany



Illumination Theory

Offline cramx3

  • Chillest of the chill
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 26561
  • Gender: Male
    • The Home of cramx3
Re: Rank the Dream Theater mega-epics
« Reply #76 on: July 27, 2020, 03:23:03 PM »
Reading is hard, for some reason I thought you vote your least favorite and then was shocked at the results  :lol

Least favorite is: ItPoE
Most favorite is: ACOS

Offline geeeemo

  • Posts: 382
  • Gender: Female
Re: Rank the Dream Theater mega-epics
« Reply #77 on: July 28, 2020, 02:00:37 PM »
I love all of them. Probably my least favorite is Six Degrees. And I really enjoy IT so much every time I listen to it. The live version especially. 
It has everything. Rock, groovy, orchestral, great message and high energy (of course not the middle part.)

1. Octavarium
2-4 (tie). ACoS, ItPoE, IT
3. CoT
4. Six Degrees.

Offline Dublagent66

  • I was once an Analog Kid...
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 8146
  • Gender: Male
  • ...Now I'm a Digital Man
Re: Rank the Dream Theater mega-epics
« Reply #78 on: July 29, 2020, 03:42:04 PM »
6. Illumination Theory
- this is Dream Theater at their worst. Bloated, pointless lyrics, nothing memorable whatsoever about this one.

I agree for the most part.  I've been ranting about this song for years and how much of a huge disappoint it has been to me.  So, I basically just stopped listening to it.  Skipped it every time on a random shuffle.  Yesterday, I listened to it for the first time in years.  I actually like the instrumental portion in the first 3:30 or so.  I'll give it that.  Too bad once the lyrics start, it's all downhill from there.  A disappointing closer to a mostly disappointing album except for like 3 songs that I actually like and listen to on a regular basis.  The Enemy Inside, The Looking Glass and Behind the Veil.  :-\
"We've got nothing to fear but fear itself, not pain, not failure, not fatal tragedy...and the things that we fear are a weapon to be held against us."

Offline devieira73

  • Posts: 1380
  • Gender: Male
  • Boldly go where no brazilian has gone before...
Re: Rank the Dream Theater mega-epics
« Reply #79 on: August 02, 2020, 08:31:46 AM »
"one small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind." (RIP Neil Armstrong)

Offline LCArenas

  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2470
  • Gender: Male
Re: Rank the Dream Theater mega-epics
« Reply #80 on: August 02, 2020, 05:04:44 PM »

From less liked to favorite:
6. Illumination Theory
It's still a very solid song, but the other ones just blow it out of the water. Some of the sections feel disjointed, the lyrics are not as memorable, but it's still a great song and the best one of the album. Eren Basbug's orchestra segment is, for me, one of the most beautiful moments in a DT song.
5. The Count of Tuscanyyyyyyyyyeeeyyyyeeeiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiyeeaeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
While it does have the worst lyrics of the entire list, the music is top notch. The guitar solos are incredible and it has the trademark DT sound.
4. In the Presence of Enemies
It's amazing, the lyrics are really interesting and the music tells the story along with them in a really great way. However I don't consider it as groundbreaking as...
3. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
This song is one of the landmarks of DT's discography. It does suffer from the same disjointedness of IT, and the song as a whole isn't as strong as each of its parts viewed individually; but the overarching concept of the song is really great, deciding to cover a topic instead of a single story.
2. A Change of Seasons
This song not only features The best lyrics MP ever wrote for DT, but some of the most interesting sections of their career. The first contact DT has ever had with a "Mega Epic", and it would be the best epic they've ever made were it not for
1. Octavarium
A love letter to 20 years of band history with a clear but clever overarching theme. Some of its movements would be standouts in DT's discography on their own, so it's no wonder it's one of my favorite Prog Metal songs ever made.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2020, 05:24:29 PM by LCArenas »

Online TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 45885
  • Gender: Male
  • Head Judge of the Peanut Gallery
Re: Rank the Dream Theater mega-epics
« Reply #81 on: August 02, 2020, 08:50:20 PM »
6. Illumination Theory
- this is Dream Theater at their worst. Bloated, pointless lyrics, nothing memorable whatsoever about this one.

I agree for the most part.  I've been ranting about this song for years and how much of a huge disappoint it has been to me.  So, I basically just stopped listening to it. 

To me, IT has two issues.

First, the mellow section. It's pointless. The couple minutes before it and after it are incredible.

While the beginning of the song is pretty fantastic, it's ending really lets this song down.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D

Offline kirksnosehair

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 6957
  • Gender: Male
  • Captain of The ANABASIS
    • The ANABASIS - Music Making a Difference
Re: Rank the Dream Theater mega-epics
« Reply #82 on: October 06, 2020, 11:32:45 AM »
My ranking:


1. The Count of Tuscany
2. A Change of Seasons
3. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
4. In The Presence of Enemies
5. Octavarium
6. Illumination Theory

Offline Dublagent66

  • I was once an Analog Kid...
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 8146
  • Gender: Male
  • ...Now I'm a Digital Man
Re: Rank the Dream Theater mega-epics
« Reply #83 on: October 06, 2020, 04:07:34 PM »
I disagree that SDOIT is such a distant 3rd, but no argument or surprise about those top 3.   :hefdaddy  :hefdaddy  :hefdaddy
"We've got nothing to fear but fear itself, not pain, not failure, not fatal tragedy...and the things that we fear are a weapon to be held against us."

Offline Kotowboy

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 25715
  • Gender: Male
Re: Rank the Dream Theater mega-epics
« Reply #84 on: October 06, 2020, 04:10:32 PM »
1. Octavarium
2. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
3. The Count of Tuscany
4. Illumination Theory
5. In The Presence of Enemies
6. A Change Of Seasons


Easy.

Offline kirksnosehair

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 6957
  • Gender: Male
  • Captain of The ANABASIS
    • The ANABASIS - Music Making a Difference
Re: Rank the Dream Theater mega-epics
« Reply #85 on: October 07, 2020, 12:34:42 PM »
I disagree that SDOIT is such a distant 3rd, but no argument or surprise about those top 3.   :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy


I've never really thought of it as a single entity.  Dream Theater don't really treat it that way either.  IIRC they haven't played the whole thing live from beginning to end since the album was released back in, what, 2002? 

Offline Setlist Scotty

  • Posts: 2973
Re: Rank the Dream Theater mega-epics
« Reply #86 on: October 07, 2020, 01:35:49 PM »
I've never really thought of it as a single entity.  Dream Theater don't really treat it that way either.  IIRC they haven't played the whole thing live from beginning to end since the album was released back in, what, 2002?
2006 at RCMH (for Score). But let's be honest, it's a 40+ minute long song. With the exception of ACoS and that performance for Score, DT hasn't played *any* of their 20+ minute epics in full beyond the initial tour they appeared on. So for SDoIT, this shouldn't be surprising at all, especially given that the song is almost twice as long as their other epics. Only The Razor's Edge from 8v was performed during Schmedley Wilcox, the first 9 minutes of ItPoE on subsequent tours and there were times when only certain parts of ACoS were played - yet in none of these cases would they be considered individual songs; the same should be the case with SDoIT.
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline Dublagent66

  • I was once an Analog Kid...
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 8146
  • Gender: Male
  • ...Now I'm a Digital Man
Re: Rank the Dream Theater mega-epics
« Reply #87 on: October 07, 2020, 04:36:49 PM »
Yeah, I agree with Scotty.  Plus, as their catalog grew, it became more difficult to fit some of the longer epics into their setlist.  I think the 2 live DVD's with SDOIT in it's entirety (Score & Live at Bucharest) are both really good performances.  There could be others, I'm not 100% sure.
"We've got nothing to fear but fear itself, not pain, not failure, not fatal tragedy...and the things that we fear are a weapon to be held against us."

Offline kirksnosehair

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 6957
  • Gender: Male
  • Captain of The ANABASIS
    • The ANABASIS - Music Making a Difference
Re: Rank the Dream Theater mega-epics
« Reply #88 on: October 09, 2020, 12:21:57 PM »
You're entitled to your opinion I guess, but to me it's a bunch of different songs and the fact that it's divided up that way on the disc suggests that how the band sees it too, otherwise if it's considered a single piece, why wouldn't you release it as a single piece? 

Offline hefdaddy42

  • Back for the Attack
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 42204
  • Gender: Male
  • Postwhore Emeritus
Re: Rank the Dream Theater mega-epics
« Reply #89 on: October 09, 2020, 12:50:26 PM »
You're entitled to your opinion I guess, but to me it's a bunch of different songs and the fact that it's divided up that way on the disc suggests that how the band sees it too, otherwise if it's considered a single piece, why wouldn't you release it as a single piece?
They did, on the SCORE CD/DVD.  But on the original recording, they did it for indexing reasons, so people could skip to their favorite section if they so chose.

Everyone is free to their opinion as to how they look at it, but the band from the beginning regarded it as one piece with subsections, like ACOS.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline darkshade

  • Posts: 2822
  • Gender: Male
Re: Rank the Dream Theater mega-epics
« Reply #90 on: October 09, 2020, 01:23:15 PM »
1. Octavarium
2. A Change Of Seasons
3. Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence
4. The Count Of Tuscany
5. In The Presence Of Enemies
6. Illumination Theory


1. Octavarium is more or less my all time favorite Dream Theater song as well as the best epic IMO. This epic just keeps moving and crescendos until the peak, "trapped inside..", and I think the finale is wonderful, I wish JP's guitar was mixed a little louder.
2. I was sleeping on ACOS for a long time, then didn't care for it when I first checked it out. Over time I grew to love it, it's much more of a proggy epic than Octavarium, technically speaking. I can see why some people think it's their best. Not a big fan of the production on this one, though. Brings it down a notch, I do prefer the LSFNY version over the studio (which is cool with Sherinian.)
3. Yea it's a suite, just like DSOTM is, but it's meant to be one piece played straight through so it counts as an epic. On the album, I see it as an album within an album (like a dream within a dream) I generally don't listen to the individual tracks when I want some Six Degrees. Love the melodies and upbeat atmosphere through the majority of the piece. I don't really have any negative opinions on it. I just think 8vm and ACOS are better because they are 'true' epics and I enjoy them more as such.
4. Always enjoyed this one, despite the lyrics. This epic is quite a ride, and has a bit of A Farewell To Kings/Hemispheres-era Rush vibe throughout. I'm not big on the chorus, but otherwise lots of fun, engaging sections. That ending is one of the best DT moments.
5. While I enjoy this one throughout, I think this epic benefits from being split in two as it is on the album. When put together, it feels too long, too many parts repeat. In context of the album, or even just sticking Ministry of Lost Souls in between, is much more palatable (and is a great 3 track album in and of itself.) On it's own, I just don't think it stacks up to the previous four epics. The darker, sinister vibe is cool, the epic is a major showcase of the band's chops in the context of a prog rock/metal piece, for sure. It just doesn't have that extra je ne sais quoi that is present on most other DT epics.
6. This one I don't like, much like the rest of the album IT appears on. To me, this is 3 or 4 song ideas mashed together. There is this one song going on throughout (the heavy riffy sections) then this atmospheric section comes in and it seems like it was pasted together, to say, "it's time for the ambient section", then the orchestral section, also doesn't really make sense why it appears here... Then we return to the heavy riffy song that was paused for a few minutes there, then I don't remember anything else after this point, other than the attempted climax/finale came off as very mechanical and cold sounding. This one has not grown on me at all. The Easter Egg after it is more enjoyable than all of DT12

Offline Kram

  • Posts: 67
Re: Rank the Dream Theater mega-epics
« Reply #91 on: October 09, 2020, 01:32:10 PM »
1. Octavarium
2. A Change Of Seasons
3. Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence
4. The Count Of Tuscany
5. In The Presence Of Enemies
6. Illumination Theory



Very close to my list.  Switch 4 and 5 and that's what I have -

1. Octavarium
2. A Change Of Seasons
3. Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence
4. In The Presence Of Enemies
5. The Count Of Tuscany
6. Illumination Theory


Offline darkshade

  • Posts: 2822
  • Gender: Male
Re: Rank the Dream Theater mega-epics
« Reply #92 on: October 09, 2020, 02:09:01 PM »
1. Octavarium
2. A Change Of Seasons
3. Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence
4. The Count Of Tuscany
5. In The Presence Of Enemies
6. Illumination Theory



Very close to my list.  Switch 4 and 5 and that's what I have -

1. Octavarium
2. A Change Of Seasons
3. Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence
4. In The Presence Of Enemies
5. The Count Of Tuscany
6. Illumination Theory

They're really not that far apart in quality IMO. I just like The Count a little bit more.
The big drop off is IT.

Offline Kram

  • Posts: 67
Re: Rank the Dream Theater mega-epics
« Reply #93 on: October 09, 2020, 02:34:20 PM »
1. Octavarium
2. A Change Of Seasons
3. Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence
4. The Count Of Tuscany
5. In The Presence Of Enemies
6. Illumination Theory




Very close to my list.  Switch 4 and 5 and that's what I have -

1. Octavarium
2. A Change Of Seasons
3. Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence
4. In The Presence Of Enemies
5. The Count Of Tuscany
6. Illumination Theory

They're really not that far apart in quality IMO. I just like The Count a little bit more.
The big drop off is IT.


Agreed!  IT isn't even close to the other 5 IMO

Offline Setlist Scotty

  • Posts: 2973
Re: Rank the Dream Theater mega-epics
« Reply #94 on: October 09, 2020, 02:43:38 PM »
You're entitled to your opinion I guess, but to me it's a bunch of different songs and the fact that it's divided up that way on the disc suggests that how the band sees it too, otherwise if it's considered a single piece, why wouldn't you release it as a single piece?
They did, on the SCORE CD/DVD.  But on the original recording, they did it for indexing reasons, so people could skip to their favorite section if they so chose.

Everyone is free to their opinion as to how they look at it, but the band from the beginning regarded it as one piece with subsections, like ACOS.
Exactly. Here's MP's comments on the topic:
https://www.mikeportnoy.com/aboutmike/faq/answers/13.aspx#217
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline Dublagent66

  • I was once an Analog Kid...
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 8146
  • Gender: Male
  • ...Now I'm a Digital Man
Re: Rank the Dream Theater mega-epics
« Reply #95 on: October 09, 2020, 03:22:55 PM »
Not only that, but the ending of each track blends in with the beginning of the next track.  They don't just end or fade (well except at the end).  That alone should be convincing enough that it's one song.  Additionally, the Overture lays out the musical ground work for the rest of the song.  You can hear similarities throughout it's entirety.  From the beginning, I never doubted what the band intended it to be.
"We've got nothing to fear but fear itself, not pain, not failure, not fatal tragedy...and the things that we fear are a weapon to be held against us."