The 4 MM-era albums VS The Last 4 MP-era albums

[KevShmev]

From what I've seen, the length of the album did not divide the fan base. It was the music. Any fan can put together a 2-hour playlist of Dream Theater songs and be perfectly happy.

I think the length of album worked against them in this respect: a 2-hour album is a big mountain to climb, and if you aren't digging it 1/4 of the way through, it is tough to make yourself listen to all of the rest multiple times to see if it grows on you. I can't count how many negative reviews of TA I saw where the listener admitted that they only listened to it once or twice, or some cases never made it through the first listen.  On the flip side, if you have a 45-minute album you are not wild about at first, you are more likely to give it more chances because it is more easily digestible.

[gzarruk]

From what I've seen, the length of the album did not divide the fan base. It was the music. Any fan can put together a 2-hour playlist of Dream Theater songs and be perfectly happy.

I think the length of album worked against them in this respect: a 2-hour album is a big mountain to climb, and if you aren't digging it 1/4 of the way through, it is tough to make yourself listen to all of the rest multiple times to see if it grows on you. I can't count how many negative reviews of TA I saw where the listener admitted that they only listened to it once or twice, or some cases never made it through the first listen.  On the flip side, if you have a 45-minute album you are not wild about at first, you are more likely to give it more chances because it is more easily digestible.

Another option could've been to release TA part 1 first (disc 1) and then part 2 a few months later, so people could have time to digest the first album for a while before the 2nd was released.

[pg1067]

From what I've seen, the length of the album did not divide the fan base. It was the music. Any fan can put together a 2-hour playlist of Dream Theater songs and be perfectly happy.

I think the length of album worked against them in this respect: a 2-hour album is a big mountain to climb, and if you aren't digging it 1/4 of the way through, it is tough to make yourself listen to all of the rest multiple times to see if it grows on you. I can't count how many negative reviews of TA I saw where the listener admitted that they only listened to it once or twice, or some cases never made it through the first listen.  On the flip side, if you have a 45-minute album you are not wild about at first, you are more likely to give it more chances because it is more easily digestible.

This is my issue.  I have very little opportunity to listen to 121 straight minutes of music (whether it be The Astonishing or all of I&W + SFAM).  Every time I've listened to TA, it's been in 20-30 minute chunks, and it loses cohesiveness as a result.  That's why I generally don't include it when I rank DT's albums.  I have a few 3+ hour plane trips coming up in the next few months, so I'm going to give it a try then.

[TheGreatPretender]

This is my issue.  I have very little opportunity to listen to 121 straight minutes of music (whether it be The Astonishing or all of I&W + SFAM).  Every time I've listened to TA, it's been in 20-30 minute chunks, and it loses cohesiveness as a result.  That's why I generally don't include it when I rank DT's albums.  I have a few 3+ hour plane trips coming up in the next few months, so I'm going to give it a try then.

Yeah, it's a tough one. I love it, and I can happily listen to it all the way through, but for me, that musical journey is just that, a journey, a story, it's like listening to a radio play, or a musical, or even a symphony, I love every musical moment of it, but my brain can't accept it as a "rock album", or a collection of songs. Musically, I think it's one of their best efforts, but at the same time, I'd be hard pressed to say that it has my favorite songs on it, when many of those tracks I'd barely even classify as "songs". So ranking it with the likes of Octavarium, or DT12, or heck, even compared to Scenes From A Memory, doesn't feel cohesive. It's like ranking a comic book among a set of novels, it's almost a different medium.

[JustDefyYou]

As far as I see it each option has 2 great albums and 2 lesser albums. DT12 is easily my least favorite out of them all and the Astonishing doesn't get played often since it requires a 2 hour sit down so it's last 4 MP for me.

[bosk1]

Given some of the discussion on the last couple of pages, I will elaborate on my response.

The reason I chose the MM albums, and the reason ADTOE and DT12 rank as my overall #3 and #4 in the DT discography, is because those albums are just SO much more consistent than anything in the DT discography, and d/t seems to follow in that same vein as well even though I am not yet sure where I would rank it.  There may be higher highs on some of the earlier albums.  And I think it is perfectly valid to take that into consideration and rank the albums according to that.  But for me, I just value the consistency more highly.  I can say that on ADTOE, DT12, and d/t, there isn't a single song that I want to skip or that makes me tune out.  I cannot say that for the 4 albums that preceded this run.

Here's a bit of a breakdown by album:

TOT:
-Really high highs:  SOC, ITNOG.  Maybe Vacant
-Really low lows:  I wouldn't say there are any "really low lows" on this album.  But I don't really care to listen to the other tracks besides the three I mention above.  ES and TDS, for example, have some awesome moments and are "near misses" simply because they are too long and meandering, and have some parts that just seem too out of nowhere, even for DT.
-Consistency:  Perhaps the closest to "consistent" of this run of albums, but still leaves me wanting in the consistency department.

Octavarium: 
-Really high highs:  I would put Panic Attack, Sacrificed Sons, and the title song in this category.  TROAE and TW are both very good.  Never Enough is pretty good too.
-Really low lows:  TALW really drags the album down for me.  IWBY isn't "bad," but it isn't something I can say I "enjoy" revisiting either.
-Consistency:  Probably about "typical" for DT.  I like most of it, but there are a couple of songs I don't connect with.

SC:
-Really high highs:  Forsaken and CM for sure.  ITPOE is close.  And TDEN is very fun.
-Really low lows:  POW, with TMOLS close behind.  And while I think Reptentence is, overall, a very good song with a brilliant concept, it doesn't have much replay value for me.
-Consistency:  Very inconsistent album with some songs I REALLY enjoy.

BCSL: 
-Really high highs:  ANTR.  TSF and TCOT are really good too, even if they aren't quite on the same level.  AROP isn't bad.
-Really low lows:  Wither and TBOT.  Not "bad" songs by any stretch, but songs I don't really connect with and don't desire to listen to.
-Consistency:  Inconsistent.  There are some great moments.  The problem is that you have almost all really long songs, so if there are things that don't connect, it can drag a whole song, which is one of only six, down.

ADTOE:
-Really high highs:  Outcry, Bridges in the Sky, Beneath the Surface
-Really low lows:  None.  BAI is the closest, but even that isn't bad.
-Consistency:  INCREDIBLY consistent.

DT12:
-Really high highs:  AFTR, BTV, Illumination Theory
-Really low lows:  None.
-Consistency:  INCREDIBLY consistent.

TA:
-Really high highs:  Ravenskill, Chosen, A Tempting Offer, The X Aspect, Moment of Betrayal
-Really low lows:  Losing Faythe.  Some others as well, but I still hesitate to call them "really low lows."  There really isn't a "You Not Me" on this album.
-Consistency:  Hard to rank because of (1) its nature as a single, coherent piece, where all of the parts are integral to the whole.  Like SFAM, the whole is generally greater than the sum of the parts.  But it does feel inconsistent, mainly due to Act I being a lot stronger than Act II. 

d/t:
-Really high highs:  AWE, Paralyzed
-Really low lows:  None.
-Consistency:  INCREDIBLY consistent.

[pcs90]

The 4 MM albums crush the last 4 MP albums in my opinion. Of the 4 MP albums the only one I go back to aside from a few small sections of songs is Octavarium. The 4 MM albums are all fantastic, and while none are perfect, I find them much more enjoyable to listen to and they are all at the top of my overall album rankings.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

As someone who voted for the 4 MP albums, I will agree that the MM are on the whole at least more consistent. ADTOE and D/T have their hiccups, but are fairly solid all around. SC and BC&SL have some pretty high highs but also some fairly awful moments as well.

[Herrick]

From what I've seen, the length of the album did not divide the fan base. It was the music. Any fan can put together a 2-hour playlist of Dream Theater songs and be perfectly happy.

I think the length of album worked against them in this respect: a 2-hour album is a big mountain to climb, and if you aren't digging it 1/4 of the way through, it is tough to make yourself listen to all of the rest multiple times to see if it grows on you. I can't count how many negative reviews of TA I saw where the listener admitted that they only listened to it once or twice, or some cases never made it through the first listen.  On the flip side, if you have a 45-minute album you are not wild about at first, you are more likely to give it more chances because it is more easily digestible.

Ah yes. That's a good point and now that I think about it, that explains why I rarely listened to the album and only started to warm up to it like a year and a half after it came out.

[jammindude]

Octavarium is my #1 Dream Theater album of all time. But I still have to choose the MM albums.

SC is the worst DT album by a pretty wide margin...and that margin is followed by BCSL. That’s just too big of a “drag factor” to overcome.

[Dream Team]

Just listened to DT12 again last night, and man it's incredibly strong. The song-writing is impeccable, nothing wasted. If only that snare sounded like a snare. But yeah, ADTOE, DT12, and TA are all excellent and DoT is at least very good, so a very easy call despite my love for songs like Octavarium, ITNOG, etc.

[mikeyd23]

This was tough, but I went with the MM albums. Close call though.

[Jay T]

I think for me I have to go with the last 4 MM albums. Systematic Chaos and Black Clouds just haven't aged well for me, even though both albums have great moments on them. I just feel that the last 4 albums with MM have been way more consistent. I've been a fan since '92, and so that early Roadrunner era was just... not for me. I still went and saw them live on both of those tours though, because I wanted to support the band. But I prefer their current sound, by far. Can't wait to see them on this tour!

[DT1138]

Kind of a mixed bag for me.

I voted Last 4 MP albums.  That's the point where I started listening to DT, so I guess it's first impressions and all.  I know it's not popular on here, but SC is my favorite DT album, with TOT trailing close behind.

Despite this, BCSL is not my favorite of those 4.  Maybe it's just me and the frame of mind I was in personally at the time (a very low point, trust me), but even on my first listen BCSL just seemed like a "final shot with the old formula(s)" kind of album and that a personnel shift was inevitable, almost like something had to give somewhere.  I was saddened for a long time when MP left, but I am long over it now.

Fully agree that the 1st 4 MM albums have the band feeling fresher overall.  D/T is my favorite new album of theirs and I feel like things can only go up from here.  In fact,  I seriously doubt we'd even have a D/T if MP was still in the band, let alone anything remotely close.